A thread on politics- have some balls and post

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An Open Letter to the Australian Public

The Voice to Parliament would enhance Australian governance

We are individuals representing no political party or political interest. We speak, rather, as retired judges who spent our professional lives listening to, and seeking to evaluate, contending arguments.

We have since considered carefully both the case for, and the case against, the proposed Voice to Parliament. Having done so, we confidently believe that, by raising the quality of our public debate, the proposed Voice will both enrich our democracy and increase the likelihood of governments making correct decisions about matters that affect Indigenous peoples. It will also, and very importantly, give Indigenous Australians their due recognition in our Constitution as this nation’s first peoples.

Democracies are at their best when decisions are made after informed and respectful debate to which all may contribute. Life being what it is, the rich and the powerful have and will retain that privilege to a greater degree than most. Some, among them Australia’s First Nations peoples, have continually battled to be heard at all.

If successful, the referendum on the Voice will not diminish the influence of anyone. But it will help to correct an historic wrong. It will give recognition, and a voice, to those who for thousands of years owned and lived in balance with this land, only to have their rights to it disregarded during the centuries which have followed settlement from other lands. No consideration was given to the deep connections with country which the original inhabitants have incorporated into their very being; and the newcomers who now occupy their land listened, if they listened at all, with none of the empathy
to which everyone should be entitled.

Constitutional recognition of the Voice in a successful referendum will acknowledge these facts, and do much to rectify a long-existing injustice. It will not, in our opinion, divide our nation. On the contrary, it will heal a wound which presently divides us. Nor will it disrupt government or destabilise the presently stable and appropriate division of power between the parliament, the executive and the judiciary.

The possibility of disruption and instability is a concern which nevertheless deserves respect (although not when it descends to ridiculous fears such as that Anzac Day will be ‘cancelled’). It is also reasonable to have doubts about the detail of the arrangements which will follow a successful referendum. We nevertheless firmly believe that these are not reasons for voting ‘No’. First, Australia can draw upon its wealth of common sense and its capacity for sensible compromise. The Voice will not waste its time, energy, finances or goodwill with silly claims that have no chance of political or judicial support. And secondly, detailed arrangements must allow for a degree of flexibility which is impossible if incorporated into a less than flexible constitution. The details are properly to be determined by the parliament of the day according to the changing circumstances of the day.

Advocates for the ‘No’ case point to the proposed amendment’s inclusion of a power in the parliament to make laws with respect to the powers of the Voice. The referendum if passed does not confer powers on parliament that it does not already have to pass such laws. We believe that the likelihood of parliament acting inappropriately in this respect is small. In our opinion it fails to justify a ‘No’ vote.

Advocates for a ‘No’ vote also claim that the Voice is a creature of Canberra. That is untrue. The call for the Voice was made in the Uluru Statement from the Heart, which is the product of the widest survey of the views of First Nations peoples ever undertaken and which is a deeply respectful call “from all points of the Southern Sky”.

It includes an invitation to all Australians to create a better future. We think this invitation should be accepted.

Signed --

The Hon Mary Gaudron KC
Former Judge of the High Court of Australia

The Hon Carmel McLure AC KC
Former President of the Supreme Court of Western Australia Court of Appeal

The Hon Stephen Charles AO KC
Former Judge of the Supreme Court of Victoria Court of Appeal

The Hon David Harper AM KC
Former Judge of the Supreme Court of Victoria Court of Appeal

The Hon Robert Redlich AM KC
Former Commissioner of the Victorian Independent Broad-based Anti-Corruption Commission (IBAC), former Judge of the Supreme Court of Victoria Court of Appeal

The Hon Paul Stein AM KC
Former Judge of the Supreme Court of NSW Court of Appeal, former President of the Anti-Discrimination Board

The Hon Anthony Whealy KC
Former Judge of the Supreme Court of NSW Court of Appeal

The Hon Margaret White AO
Former Judge of the Supreme Court of Queensland Court of Appeal
 

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Looking at the upcoming US election we are at the zenith of society right now before complete collapse. Choosing between...

The 82 year old thats not all there.
Trump. Enough said.
And the guy that has worms that are eating his brain.

This truly could be it ladies and gentlemen.

 
Elixuh said:
Looking at the upcoming US election we are at the zenith of society right now before complete collapse. Choosing between...

The 82 year old thats not all there.
Trump. Enough said.
And the guy that has worms that are eating his brain.

This truly could be it ladies and gentlemen.

Click to expand...

"The peak of your civilisation". Chilling words 25 years on.

 
www.abc.net.au

Cross River Rail to be renamed after Elizabeth II if LNP wins Queensland election

The LNP launched a petition after the Queen's death calling for the rail project to be renamed the "Elizabeth Line", and will go ahead with the proposed name change if they win the state election.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

This is one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time. Cross River Rail is not a full line in and of itself, it's a conduit for the Beenleigh, Gold Coast and Caboolture lines. The LNPs devotion to the monarchy is laughable.
 
Johnny Bananas said:
www.abc.net.au

Cross River Rail to be renamed after Elizabeth II if LNP wins Queensland election

The LNP launched a petition after the Queen's death calling for the rail project to be renamed the "Elizabeth Line", and will go ahead with the proposed name change if they win the state election.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

This is one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time. Cross River Rail is not a full line in and of itself, it's a conduit for the Beenleigh, Gold Coast and Caboolture lines. The LNPs devotion to the monarchy is laughable.
Click to expand...
Without reading the article, if that's not Jarrod Blejie I'd be very surprised. Got his fingerprints all over it.
 
Watching the US now trying to impose sanctions on the ICC almost proves that the hope we have in the UN and ICC being any sort of impediment to all out war is farcical.

The US has long expected everyone else to follow the rule of law but the minute it doesn't suit them it's non equivalence or some other bullshit hypocrisy they throw up.

There should be some nervous leaders around the world, Israel's overreach in the Gaza conflict should be the catalyst for change - and for people to not sit idly by. It didn't take long to cross over from defence to revenge to genocide there and it would quickly happen anywhere else given a chance. Old allegiances shouldn't equate to blind eyes.

Now you have Trump and his supporters overtly mentioning "Reich", and along with his previous fascination with Hilter and wanting to revert the US to Gilliad, the world seemingly is on the brink of each side backing itself into ridiculous corners with little room for shades of grey on any topic.

Just seems to me we are reaching a tipping point where regard for the rule of law and just simple human decency and respect is all but gone.
 

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notliondown said:
There should be some nervous leaders around the world, Israel's overreach in the Gaza conflict should be the catalyst for change - and for people to not sit idly by. It didn't take long to cross over from defence to revenge to genocide there and it would quickly happen anywhere else given a chance. Old allegiances shouldn't equate to blind eyes.
Click to expand...
imo the gazan situation could be classified as a genocide for far longer than just the most recent outburst... if states have not been willing to recognise israeli atrocities up to this point i dont think they will be doing anything more than wet lettuce chastising of israel and netanyahu going forward.
 
As I have posted previously I have zero respect for Politicians of all persuasions but I have noticed a lot of Trump is a nazi the world is going to explode if he gets in rhetoric... but from my memory of Trumps first term the world didn't actually turn into an apocalyptic zombie hell hole.
 
M Malice said:
As I have posted previously I have zero respect for Politicians of all persuasions but I have noticed a lot of Trump is a nazi the world is going to explode if he gets in rhetoric... but from my memory of Trumps first term the world didn't actually turn into an apocalyptic zombie hell hole.
Click to expand...
There's certainly a lot of hyperbole, especially as the power of the US President has limits by design, so that there's only so much one incompetent or tyrannical person can screw things up. So it was never going to be that dramatic.

But Trump's impact on American society is clear: he encouraged bigots to be more open and proud about their views. That itself made the country worse. And his stacking of the Supreme Court with rabid conservatives has led to the overturning of the federal right to abortion, which has been viewed by a lot of the public as a serious overreach. If the Democrats win in November, the Republican attacks on the right to an abortion will be a big reason why.
 
Johnny Bananas said:
There's certainly a lot of hyperbole, especially as the power of the US President has limits by design, so that there's only so much one incompetent or tyrannical person can screw things up. So it was never going to be that dramatic.

But Trump's impact on American society is clear: he encouraged bigots to be more open and proud about their views. That itself made the country worse. And his stacking of the Supreme Court with rabid conservatives has led to the overturning of the federal right to abortion, which has been viewed by a lot of the public as a serious overreach. If the Democrats win in November, the Republican attacks on the right to an abortion will be a big reason why.
Click to expand...
They're both hypocritical and abhorrent in their own way IMO, I just don't like the political process particularly on a National/Global level.

The USA sets the agenda and the western world follows and their politicians are owned by wealthy benefactors, the real agenda and policy setters are embedded unelected bureaucrats, the financial/banking, mega business conglomerate, military industrial complex, Federal Reserve bank elites and the lettered agencies like the CIA, DoD, Homeland Security, NSA etc.

IMO.
 
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Johnny Bananas said:
There's certainly a lot of hyperbole, especially as the power of the US President has limits by design, so that there's only so much one incompetent or tyrannical person can screw things up. So it was never going to be that dramatic.

But Trump's impact on American society is clear: he encouraged bigots to be more open and proud about their views. That itself made the country worse. And his stacking of the Supreme Court with rabid conservatives has led to the overturning of the federal right to abortion, which has been viewed by a lot of the public as a serious overreach. If the Democrats win in November, the Republican attacks on the right to an abortion will be a big reason why.
Click to expand...

Not sure I agree with the idea that US system limits the power of the President... if anything it's the reverse. Very few systems outside of dictatorships give the same level of executive power that the US does.

Sure he's not going to launch a nuke on his own but that's the least of the worries. He'll do more damage destabilising his own country and the subsequent consequences of that. He did it the first time and he's more determined for revenge and retribution this time.
 
M Malice said:
As I have posted previously I have zero respect for Politicians of all persuasions but I have noticed a lot of Trump is a nazi the world is going to explode if he gets in rhetoric... but from my memory of Trumps first term the world didn't actually turn into an apocalyptic zombie hell hole.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately when you release printed MAGA propaganda with the word REICH all over it and the 2025 document you see the rhetoric this time seems much less misplaced.

I get the appeal of his difference, but the lack of respect for the same system the makes America great (vomit) coupled with his unmasked seeking of revenge against those he perceived wronged him, will make his first term look like a picnic compared to the second - should he get one.

Just the idea that he will introduce legislation the makes Presidents immune from prosecution should terrify people.
 
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I'm still waiting for someone to retrospectively declare say in late October, that yes Trump did win the 2020 election so he has been elected president twice now (even if only served once) and so not eligible ...
 
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