Might be a good thing.
Round 7 2002 the WCE were 7th.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 7 - Pride Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
a bit of sacrilege
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Might be a good thing.
Round 7 2002 the WCE were 7th.
- Mar 25, 2003
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Woosha should not be seen as a scapegoat for this, however i think he is learning a few lessons.
He obviousbly has a midget fetish, because we are still going in too small.
Even on the weekend at the G against a pretty tall team, we only went in with Cox, McDougall, Jakovich, Glass and a still underdone Gaspar. Whilst B. Jones, Staker, Embley and Hunter may be tallish, they're not genuine KPP.
We definetaly need to stop playing the fringe players who are 25 or older such as Green, Chambers, Wooden and co.
As soon as Gardiner went down, i think it was decided there was a big chance we'd go a step backwards to go two forward in 2005.
We are still doing well out of the middle, but are lack of accountability is being exposed at CHF because we have no one to provide a contest for four quarters. Jako can do good for a period, so can Gaspar, so can Staker, so can McDougall. But even between them we don't get near a four quarter effort.
And often the opposing half backs are taking possession of the ball and rebounding against us, and we find our midfielders such as Judd, Cousins and co. are preparing to go forward but have to go back.
I doubt whether Gardiner would/should ever go back as a number 1 ruckman, however he could provide that marking target at CHF. Gaspar has shown that he can, but we still can't rely on him with only 20 or so games of AFL experience.
Glass has shown in 2 games that he could be a very good Fullback, while Lynch has shown great poise and promise at CHF. Hunter's future may be very much in doubt with the great start and reputation of Brett Jones.
Unfortunately down back we really don't have the KP depth. Carroll is ordinary at best, but hopefully Graham can conitnue to develop.
Up forward we have plenty of options, but we haven't had anyone really stand up on a week to week basis and say "I Will be our FF/CHF for the next 8 years"
we've got MacDougall, Gaspar, Staker (not big enough for KPP IMO), Johnson, Hansen (the last two haven't been given much of a chance) who can do the job. Gardiner will come back next year and i feel sure up one of the Forward Key Spots. I also would like to see them give Cox and Seaby more of a run up forward because they're height would create problems.
Whilst Jakovich is providing solid contrbiutions of the bench, however this will be his last I reckon. He can do good things, but he can't do them for 4 quarters.
Our midfield is still one of the best in the competitions. They're a bit down on form, but are still usually beaten they're opposition numbers out of the middle. The problem comes in general play when we break down through lack of tall targets, meaning our midfielders are exposed. Cox isn't quite providing them the ball Gardy does, but he's going pretty close to it for mine (take away his hiding at the hands of Sandilands).
We've had four guys make debuts this year - Nicoski, Seaby, Jones and Wates. All four have made good starts (particularly Nicoski). This is nothing but brilliant.
So what must we do for the rest of this year: Gotta get some more of the young big guys out there. We also must make a decision - will Gardy's future be as a number 1 ruckman, or will he be a FF/CHF who is sparingly used in the ruck. Obviousbly first preference is for him to be a ruckman, but only if he's body is upto it........
Both Cox and Seaby must play EVERY game this season, provided they are fit. And i also think, as a general rule, both should be given half a game each in the ruck and most of the rest of the game spent as a Third Key Forward.
The other Two Key forward spots must be given to two players (most likely Doogs at FF, Gaspar/Stakes* at CHF) and see what they can do for six weeks. Give them the spot permenantly, rather than rotate them all over the ground. If they don't do what we want them to do, than give Johnson and Hansen a go.
*This would preferably be Gaspar as he is a better long term KP option due to his bigger body. But if he not match fit yet, than try Staker out.
Guys like Green, Chambers, Wooden and Collica really aren't going to be a part of our future. Although i wouldn't be dissapointed with Chambers given a run if showing good form in the WAFL and/or a few injuries to our senior guys. But unless he shows consistent good form for the Eagles, than i really can't see him as getting an extended stay in the team.
The other three really don't provide anything more than the likes Waters or Nicoski, but those two really have the future to be top class HBF/BP's or even wingman.
Morrison is a guy whose career is in the balance. Hasn't really come back well from his knee injury, and is now 26 years old. The other guy is Hunter. Been average this year, but we need he can be good. But with the emerge of Jones (both are identical players) he could overtake Hunter.
And what we need at the end of the year is too really concentrate on some depth in the KPP backman. Our FB and CHB are more settled than FF and CHF, but we don't have the options down back than what we do up forward. We don't need a champion FB, but we need someone who provided better depth than Carroll.......
He obviousbly has a midget fetish, because we are still going in too small.
Even on the weekend at the G against a pretty tall team, we only went in with Cox, McDougall, Jakovich, Glass and a still underdone Gaspar. Whilst B. Jones, Staker, Embley and Hunter may be tallish, they're not genuine KPP.
We definetaly need to stop playing the fringe players who are 25 or older such as Green, Chambers, Wooden and co.
As soon as Gardiner went down, i think it was decided there was a big chance we'd go a step backwards to go two forward in 2005.
We are still doing well out of the middle, but are lack of accountability is being exposed at CHF because we have no one to provide a contest for four quarters. Jako can do good for a period, so can Gaspar, so can Staker, so can McDougall. But even between them we don't get near a four quarter effort.
And often the opposing half backs are taking possession of the ball and rebounding against us, and we find our midfielders such as Judd, Cousins and co. are preparing to go forward but have to go back.
I doubt whether Gardiner would/should ever go back as a number 1 ruckman, however he could provide that marking target at CHF. Gaspar has shown that he can, but we still can't rely on him with only 20 or so games of AFL experience.
Glass has shown in 2 games that he could be a very good Fullback, while Lynch has shown great poise and promise at CHF. Hunter's future may be very much in doubt with the great start and reputation of Brett Jones.
Unfortunately down back we really don't have the KP depth. Carroll is ordinary at best, but hopefully Graham can conitnue to develop.
Up forward we have plenty of options, but we haven't had anyone really stand up on a week to week basis and say "I Will be our FF/CHF for the next 8 years"
we've got MacDougall, Gaspar, Staker (not big enough for KPP IMO), Johnson, Hansen (the last two haven't been given much of a chance) who can do the job. Gardiner will come back next year and i feel sure up one of the Forward Key Spots. I also would like to see them give Cox and Seaby more of a run up forward because they're height would create problems.
Whilst Jakovich is providing solid contrbiutions of the bench, however this will be his last I reckon. He can do good things, but he can't do them for 4 quarters.
Our midfield is still one of the best in the competitions. They're a bit down on form, but are still usually beaten they're opposition numbers out of the middle. The problem comes in general play when we break down through lack of tall targets, meaning our midfielders are exposed. Cox isn't quite providing them the ball Gardy does, but he's going pretty close to it for mine (take away his hiding at the hands of Sandilands).
We've had four guys make debuts this year - Nicoski, Seaby, Jones and Wates. All four have made good starts (particularly Nicoski). This is nothing but brilliant.
So what must we do for the rest of this year: Gotta get some more of the young big guys out there. We also must make a decision - will Gardy's future be as a number 1 ruckman, or will he be a FF/CHF who is sparingly used in the ruck. Obviousbly first preference is for him to be a ruckman, but only if he's body is upto it........
Both Cox and Seaby must play EVERY game this season, provided they are fit. And i also think, as a general rule, both should be given half a game each in the ruck and most of the rest of the game spent as a Third Key Forward.
The other Two Key forward spots must be given to two players (most likely Doogs at FF, Gaspar/Stakes* at CHF) and see what they can do for six weeks. Give them the spot permenantly, rather than rotate them all over the ground. If they don't do what we want them to do, than give Johnson and Hansen a go.
*This would preferably be Gaspar as he is a better long term KP option due to his bigger body. But if he not match fit yet, than try Staker out.
Guys like Green, Chambers, Wooden and Collica really aren't going to be a part of our future. Although i wouldn't be dissapointed with Chambers given a run if showing good form in the WAFL and/or a few injuries to our senior guys. But unless he shows consistent good form for the Eagles, than i really can't see him as getting an extended stay in the team.
The other three really don't provide anything more than the likes Waters or Nicoski, but those two really have the future to be top class HBF/BP's or even wingman.
Morrison is a guy whose career is in the balance. Hasn't really come back well from his knee injury, and is now 26 years old. The other guy is Hunter. Been average this year, but we need he can be good. But with the emerge of Jones (both are identical players) he could overtake Hunter.
And what we need at the end of the year is too really concentrate on some depth in the KPP backman. Our FB and CHB are more settled than FF and CHF, but we don't have the options down back than what we do up forward. We don't need a champion FB, but we need someone who provided better depth than Carroll.......
I think another assistant coach with more experience would be a good thing for both Worsfold and Club. We always did the right thing in bringing in Woosha, but i must a agree that he was not quite ready. He needed more experience at a club that has been through both good and bad times so he could listen and learn on how to deal with different situations. Arriving at the Eagles he did very well by getting us into the finals, but all of a sudden he has found himself in the deep end, and I'm not sure he has the experience to pull us out of it.
We need someone along side Woosha, preferably without strong past ties to the club, that can provide honest and unbiased input to help us get back on track. Someone who has seen it all before and gone through it. He still needs someone to learn off.
We need someone along side Woosha, preferably without strong past ties to the club, that can provide honest and unbiased input to help us get back on track. Someone who has seen it all before and gone through it. He still needs someone to learn off.
i've been away for a couple of weeks and i come back and everyone is in panic mode!
i know may thought that this year we would be near certain to be in the top 8 because it's what we've come to expect from our club.
What we've got to remember is that half the clubs in the competition miss out every year. We've been lucky that over the last 18 odd years being out of the top 8 has been a rarity not a regularity.
i, like some of the others here, do have faith in the team. However they are young and very inexperienced. We've been so lucky to have the likes of Cuz, Juddy, Kerr, Jako, Banners etc have an immediate impact the year they are drafted. The majority of players take a couple of years to find their feet and come to terms with playing at a consistantly high level.
Our actual playing 22 is the youngest in the competition. Jako's the only one over 30, then Fido's 28 and the next group are 25 turning 26, with the majority of the boys being under 23. Most players don't start playing consistantly until they have 50 or so games under their belts.
Only 13 of the boys that took to the field on the weekend have played over 50 games with about 5 only just making the mark.
These aren't excuses, they're facts. But in saying that, i still think we'll go alright this year. We're only one game out of the 8. The kids will only be better for the experience, and i believe they'll come through.
For the people calling for Woosha's head, how can you be serious. i know as club we have a winning culture but this is his first bad patch of his coaching career and you want him gone? Woosha has a huge impact on those boys. i don't think there is any other coach out there that the boys would try harder to play for.
i know may thought that this year we would be near certain to be in the top 8 because it's what we've come to expect from our club.
What we've got to remember is that half the clubs in the competition miss out every year. We've been lucky that over the last 18 odd years being out of the top 8 has been a rarity not a regularity.
i, like some of the others here, do have faith in the team. However they are young and very inexperienced. We've been so lucky to have the likes of Cuz, Juddy, Kerr, Jako, Banners etc have an immediate impact the year they are drafted. The majority of players take a couple of years to find their feet and come to terms with playing at a consistantly high level.
Our actual playing 22 is the youngest in the competition. Jako's the only one over 30, then Fido's 28 and the next group are 25 turning 26, with the majority of the boys being under 23. Most players don't start playing consistantly until they have 50 or so games under their belts.
Only 13 of the boys that took to the field on the weekend have played over 50 games with about 5 only just making the mark.
These aren't excuses, they're facts. But in saying that, i still think we'll go alright this year. We're only one game out of the 8. The kids will only be better for the experience, and i believe they'll come through.
For the people calling for Woosha's head, how can you be serious. i know as club we have a winning culture but this is his first bad patch of his coaching career and you want him gone? Woosha has a huge impact on those boys. i don't think there is any other coach out there that the boys would try harder to play for.
Agree 100%
Once again I agree 100%. I must add that Paul Johnson hasn't bee in good WAFL form (from reading the reports in The West Australinan website), and Hansen has just come back from a broken bone injury. In time both will get chances to prove their worth.
Yes they have had good starts, but it's still to early to know for sure. Yet I do believe they will all become good players for us.
Again I agree. However we got to be clear with some of them, particularly McDougall that although we expect them to make mistakes, we also expect them to work hard and be hard at the ball. I get the impression that Dougs expect tghe ball to be served in a platter to him.
I started another thread about the way forward, saying with different words just about the same. We need to give game time to the players that can be part of our future and we already know that these players and Trent Carrol are not part of our long term future.
Belgarion
I'm sticking like baby mustard
good thing they gave John a long term contract when they did.
I said after the plastic cup game against Collingwood that we weren't as ready as a lot of people were saying we were - including a lot of Victorians.
Remember all that talk about how massive the eagles looked.
I just looked at McDougal and said he still looks like a young kid to me and will need a season or two. Staker same deal. Both really talented but not quite ready. They will be in 2005.
Lynch will be fantastic next year if he gets a full year at full back and either Johnson or Hanson will jump out of the woodwork soon and stick their hand up.
Then there's pleasant surprises like Nicoski - what a fantastic talent. Brett Jones - great debut. Waters looks the goods and a hard nut. We need hard nuts.
And Cox standing up in the ruck while the other big M*ther F**ker is recuperating. He's handling the heat in the kitchen very well and will be a lot better for it when Gairdner returns fit and well next year.
Don't worry folks it will all come together like it did at St Kilda and then we'll get the consistent results we've been lacking for five or six years. And that's in finals too.
Give Worsfold, Sumich, Mccale and Co time and they WILL NOT LET YOU DOWN. They are all goers who hate losing and they are LOCAL PEOPLE.
Won't it be MAGNIFICENT to win a GF with local coaching staff.
Now is not the time to go weak kneed.
good thing they gave John a long term contract when they did.
I said after the plastic cup game against Collingwood that we weren't as ready as a lot of people were saying we were - including a lot of Victorians.
Remember all that talk about how massive the eagles looked.
I just looked at McDougal and said he still looks like a young kid to me and will need a season or two. Staker same deal. Both really talented but not quite ready. They will be in 2005.
Lynch will be fantastic next year if he gets a full year at full back and either Johnson or Hanson will jump out of the woodwork soon and stick their hand up.
Then there's pleasant surprises like Nicoski - what a fantastic talent. Brett Jones - great debut. Waters looks the goods and a hard nut. We need hard nuts.
And Cox standing up in the ruck while the other big M*ther F**ker is recuperating. He's handling the heat in the kitchen very well and will be a lot better for it when Gairdner returns fit and well next year.
Don't worry folks it will all come together like it did at St Kilda and then we'll get the consistent results we've been lacking for five or six years. And that's in finals too.
Give Worsfold, Sumich, Mccale and Co time and they WILL NOT LET YOU DOWN. They are all goers who hate losing and they are LOCAL PEOPLE.
Won't it be MAGNIFICENT to win a GF with local coaching staff.
Now is not the time to go weak kneed.
- Banned
- #32
If the Eagles don't look like progressing towards the top 4 in 12 months time, they never will with the squad and the coaching structure they've got now.
I agree with all the defence of Woosha said previously.
Give him another season, and get the squad's balance and fitness right before we pass judgement on his coaching ability.
I agree with all the defence of Woosha said previously.
Give him another season, and get the squad's balance and fitness right before we pass judgement on his coaching ability.
- Thread starter
- #33
I find some of the comments made about Worsfold very interesting, specially the one that says that he's a good motivator but not so good tactically. Whatever it is, and judging by the ravings about our team at the beginning of the season, many of them made by people who post in this board, by now the Eagles should be challenging for top four, Instead we are struggling and going backwards just like we did at the end of the last season. Finishing 8th in Woosha first season was a great achievement, specially when everybody tipped us to finish last, but finishing 8th last season, in my view was a failure. And the trend continues. We are not going forward and the excuses are now flying. We have excuses about injuries, about being "Malthouse's fault" and some even suggest we are rebuilding (I hate this word) ! So we are eternally rebuilding aren't we ? If we are doing well we have the best midfield in the country, if not it's injuries, Malthouse and we're rebuilding !!
Now I'm not hitting the panic button and I DO NOT want Woosha to be sacked. I never said that. I'm just stating what to me seems clear and that Woosha is not a bad coach but he's nothing special either. The more I see the more I think he's like Danny Frawley and Peter Schwab. Both started well at their respective clubs but now both Hawthorn and Richmond are going nowhere. Someone was even offended because I compared Woosha with those two. Well, at least Peter Schwab finished 4th in his first or second year. So his record is better. It happens to a lot of coaches. They can motivate their players in the first couple of years and they respond well, but after that if they don't have something else, even the motivation card loses impact and the teams suffer. That's when the true quality of the coach comes to light.
Now I disagree with the statement that replacing a coach sends a team back a couple of years. In many cases it sends the team ahead two years, specially if the players are good and the coach has a proven record. Leigh Matthews is the perfect example. In a couple of years he lead Brisbane from wooden spoon and no light at the end of the tunnel, to one of the best teams ever. Terry Wallace is another coach who I'm convinced can take a team with quality players to a top four team. In fact I'm convinced he's almost another Leigh Matthews. He's just waiting for an opportunity to take over a team with a reasonable number of good players to lead them to glory. The lucky team will probably be Richmond or Hawthorn.
Now I'm not hitting the panic button and I DO NOT want Woosha to be sacked. I never said that. I'm just stating what to me seems clear and that Woosha is not a bad coach but he's nothing special either. The more I see the more I think he's like Danny Frawley and Peter Schwab. Both started well at their respective clubs but now both Hawthorn and Richmond are going nowhere. Someone was even offended because I compared Woosha with those two. Well, at least Peter Schwab finished 4th in his first or second year. So his record is better. It happens to a lot of coaches. They can motivate their players in the first couple of years and they respond well, but after that if they don't have something else, even the motivation card loses impact and the teams suffer. That's when the true quality of the coach comes to light.
Now I disagree with the statement that replacing a coach sends a team back a couple of years. In many cases it sends the team ahead two years, specially if the players are good and the coach has a proven record. Leigh Matthews is the perfect example. In a couple of years he lead Brisbane from wooden spoon and no light at the end of the tunnel, to one of the best teams ever. Terry Wallace is another coach who I'm convinced can take a team with quality players to a top four team. In fact I'm convinced he's almost another Leigh Matthews. He's just waiting for an opportunity to take over a team with a reasonable number of good players to lead them to glory. The lucky team will probably be Richmond or Hawthorn.
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I think sitting 2nd on the ladder after 15 rounds last year went to our heads and to the heads of the so called experts in Melbourne. Which has of course led us to believe that we are a genuine top 4 team.
But in reality we are not really ready yet. Last year Gardiner was so dominant and our midfielders ran riot that we beat anybody but suddenly the midfield is misfiring and Gardiner is watching from the stands. And that exposes our biggest weakness, which has been there ever since we entered the competition.
Tall marking forwards....
But perhaps with this new batch....we can find an answer.
But that doesnt mean its all over this year, as I said in previous posts, we are still a strong chance to play finals this year and I expect us to beat Sydney this weekend.
But in reality we are not really ready yet. Last year Gardiner was so dominant and our midfielders ran riot that we beat anybody but suddenly the midfield is misfiring and Gardiner is watching from the stands. And that exposes our biggest weakness, which has been there ever since we entered the competition.
Tall marking forwards....
But perhaps with this new batch....we can find an answer.
But that doesnt mean its all over this year, as I said in previous posts, we are still a strong chance to play finals this year and I expect us to beat Sydney this weekend.
Is this guy still here to apologise?
Keys
Looking for a cloud to yell at
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- #38
He's now posting as Jack_the_Ninja
jess-jess is a dirty turncoat
Ochre
:o
Ochre said:
**** I'm good.
LordHaart
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- Mar 27, 2011
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Any similarities between Worsfold's entry as a coach & Simpson's? I didn't really start following the Eagles until 2008 so I'm not really sure how long it took Worsfold to turn us into a serious contender (was it only 2005 that we started challenging or did we have a chance in 2004 as well?).
EDIT: Just pondering how much of an impact a coach can have on a side. Given WC's inconsistent form I feel like there's a lot of potential for fast improvement if we are coached appropriately.
EDIT: Just pondering how much of an impact a coach can have on a side. Given WC's inconsistent form I feel like there's a lot of potential for fast improvement if we are coached appropriately.
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What actually happened to Chad Morrisson other than doing his knee? I can't believe he was only 26 in '04, he was one of the better players for a number of years. Should have played in the 05/06 GFs.
Ended up at collingwood didn't he?
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We showed glimpses in 03. We underachieved at the start of 04 and only won 4 games in the first half of the year(probably the reason for this thread) then stormed home only losing to eventual premiers Port because of inaccuracy. Our finals series wasn't much chop losing to Sydney in an elimination but people were then talking us up as the next big thing.
As for Worsfold I remember him making a difference straight away but took us a couple of years to start taking to the good teams.
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Done his knee twice never quite got back to what he was. Was traded to Collingwood and retired not long after that.
I remember him getting towelled up one day vs Nathan brown one day for the pies. This was pre broken leg brown when he had a very good patch; Morrison didn't play on too much longer after that.
Was a shame, I really liked him as a player. Even though he moved to the pies, IMO it was a move that he thought best after a bad injury, and suspect Malthouse had a lot to do with that.
Jack_the_Ninja
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Say What ? I only found BF back in 06...got banned a few years later by some fanboi. Don't confuse pessimism with nihilism, I have always been a glass half empty guy but when the team delivers I don't hold back my enthusiasm.
It started raining in that sydney final - we were a few goals behind already in a low scoring arm wrestle of a game .
Id had massive arguments with brizzy supporters all week after saying id rather face brisbane in brisbane than sydney in perth - of course they got their knickers in a knot at the slight as they were the biggest champs ever.
No amount of pointing out wc results in brisbane would mollify them.
I then on that now defunct forum called us as a threat next year to howls of derision. Howls i quoted ad infinitum for the next two years.
**** i miss those years of footy.
Id had massive arguments with brizzy supporters all week after saying id rather face brisbane in brisbane than sydney in perth - of course they got their knickers in a knot at the slight as they were the biggest champs ever.
No amount of pointing out wc results in brisbane would mollify them.
I then on that now defunct forum called us as a threat next year to howls of derision. Howls i quoted ad infinitum for the next two years.
**** i miss those years of footy.
Shupe
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And boy did he learn his lesson.
Started with the short people, ended with land of the giants.
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