20th AFL Team

[RedV3x]

Correct Wiki AFL New Zealand says 30,000 registered players

Yes, presumeably they meant 30k players registered in KiwiKick which
as you know has been widely quoted elsewhere.
As mentioned elsewhere, roughly a third of Kiwikick went on to club-based activities.

 

[RedV3x]

Look, I love your positivity,

I don't when people completely ignore reality.
I really love the idea of Newcastle and New Zealand but it would take time and effort
to get N.Z. back to the position it was once at.
Plus there has been no movement on a new stadium or at AFL House to my knowledge.
The AFL sadly hasn't even started to look at Newcastle.

The N.T. will always depend on (government) support and that is the opposite of a stable foundation.

Canberra is the only option that offers population, market growth, market support, stability and history a.t.m.

 

[Coolangatta]

What I’d like like to see:

Canberra team 20,
Gather round moved to WA to have more games in Perth and reduce travel burden of WA clubs
Suns and Giants play all their home games in home city

Saints, Hawks, Dees and Roos take Auckland, Newcastle, Darwin and Cairns as secondary markets.

Forget Alice Springs other than pre season and maybe just have Canberra host a pre season game in Albury to cover Riverina.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

And surely NZ would add more value to the TV rights.

Not necessarily. NSW and Qld come under national rights, strengthening the weak areas with large populations and larger economies maximise those rights (over a long timeframe).

New Zealand rights are worth roughly zero. Strengthening that would probably lead to rights being worth roughly zero.

 

[RedV3x]

What I’d like like to see:

Canberra team 20,

Suns and Giants play all their home games in home city

Saints, Hawks, Dees and Roos take Auckland, Newcastle, Darwin and Cairns as secondary markets.

Forget Alice Springs other than pre season and maybe just have Canberra host a pre season game in Albury to cover Riverina.

Hawthorn did an excellent job in N.Z. before moving onto Tasmania.
Not sure Saint Kilda put as much effort into N.Z

Gather round moved to WA to have more games in Perth and reduce travel burden of WA clubs

W.A. clubs have pretty much gotten used to the travel.
I'd try something more exciting.

 

[RedV3x]

New Zealand rights are worth roughly zero.

Ridiculous

 

[Coolangatta]

Hawthorn did an excellent job in N.Z. before moving onto Tasmania.
Not sure Saint Kilda put as much effort into N.Z



W.A. clubs have pretty much gotten used to the travel.
I'd try something more exciting.

Hawks playing a couple games in Auckland would be sweet.

What do you suggest we do with WA? Optus is a great stadium, I’d love to see more games there.

 

[RedV3x]

Hawks playing a couple games in Auckland would be sweet.

Hawks actually were almost too successful. They did a great job in N.Z. and were popular in Tasmania
but they had not only recovered but were potent again ruling them out of relocation.

What do you suggest we do with WA? Optus is a great stadium, I’d love to see more games there.

Good question.

Optus is a great stadium. The nufties in the East should have copied it in Sydney and Brisbane.
Looking at the population metrics only, WA3 is justified but not really wanted.
Looking a development metrics Qld3 offers more returns and is arguably wanted.
Looking at the Gather Round in isolation Optus Oval, WAFL grounds and say Bunbury would be attractive.
Looking at the Gather Round in development terms and potential gains then Sydney or Brisbane stand out.

To answer your question.
IMO I'd try International Rules. Subiaco was packed out last time and Optus would rock like no other stadium.
Maybe a AFLW Gather Round.
Personally I'd bring back the International Cup. Perth would really get behind that unlike Melbourne
and make it an event and not a chore as it has been treated.
And as often as calls for secession, there are calls for the return of S.O.O.
Who can forget Subiaco Oval being packed out on a Tuesday workday!

Let's look at the N.M. experiment. Maybe Optus Oval can be the retirement home for retiring Melbourne clubs.

Something out of left field.
There enough Irish players now to form their own team.
Perth Celtics anyone ?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Would games in NZ open up a new timeslot?

It could open up Friday night double headers.

You could play games at 7pm in Auckland, then they're on TV at 5pm in Melbourne. Perfect for afterwork drinks at the pub.

Then you could start the game at 7.30pm in Adelaide. Then you've got non-stop footy 5-11pm Melbourne time.

Or even a 1pm Saturday/Sunday game in Auckland. I'd watch that at 11am on the east coast. Not a great time for attendance, but clean air for broadcasting.

 

[The_Wookie]

An AFL annual report is not an independent link

"independent links" are the cry of forum trolls in these discussions.

For the purpose of participation discussion its the ONLY source of actual numbers. All other data is sourced from it, or its extrapolated survey data.

 

[RedV3x]

You could play games at 7pm in Auckland, then they're on TV at 5pm in Melbourne. Perfect for afterwork drinks at the pub.

Potentially a very strong niche.

 

[The_Wookie]

35k no way.

2013 I interviewed Rob Vanstom, then CEO of AFL NZ for an article on the Roar.

Rob says that there are 30,000 participants in Australian football programs in New Zealand. Of these, 95 percent are based in Kiwikick – the New Zealand variety of Auskick. Expatriate Australians would make up less than two percent of the total.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2013/12/10/australian-rules-football-across-the-tasman/

They must have been counting arms and legs.
The interesting bit for me is when you ask these posters for independent links to back up claims they really can't provide them

the interesting bit for me is that you cant do you own homework. Seriously tiresome.

 

[Cam Payne]

If the Auckland Scaffolders get the nod, you can guarantee who will travel there often. Just like Tassie will end up being the place big vfl clubs don't go cos limited seats, it'll be the longest distance flight clubs who get the privilege most often.

 

[Bjo187]

2013 I interviewed Rob Vanstom, then CEO of AFL NZ for an article on the Roar.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2013/12/10/australian-rules-football-across-the-tasman/

the interesting bit for me is that you cant do you own homework. Seriously tiresome.

Interesting article, do you know if things are still as good nearly 10 years on or have the afl dropped the ball there?

I wonder if they get any funding at all from head office.

You'd think only $1 or 2 mill per year would do the trick to keep the lights on at least. New Zealand is worth nurturing to a degree, so it doesn't completely die out, as it's the only obvious expansion possibility outside of Australia when the time comes.

 

[Walshawk]

What I’d like like to see:

Canberra team 20,
Gather round moved to WA to have more games in Perth and reduce travel burden of WA clubs
Suns and Giants play all their home games in home city

Saints, Hawks, Dees and Roos take Auckland, Newcastle, Darwin and Cairns as secondary markets.

Forget Alice Springs other than pre season and maybe just have Canberra host a pre season game in Albury to cover Riverina.

Canberra team 20.
Non Vox clubs get 12 homes games.
Vic clubs get 11 home games plus a neutral game. Seven of these are played Gather around in Adelaide (it won’t work as well anywhere else - no one is driving to Perth). The other three neutral games are played in Darwin. Crowds and Port play home games in GR.
Alice Springs get the Indig All Stars game in Feb v reigning premiers.
Western Sydney and Gold Coast play all games in Sydney and QLD.
If the AFl and clubs still want to play games in small markets, maybe Cairns, NZ, Newcastle, Woolongong, Townsville, McKay Coffs Harbour get one (no stadium at half of those) if the price is right for clubs like Nth, Des, Saints or Hawks.

 

[Coolangatta]

Canberra team 20.
Non Vox clubs get 12 homes games.
Vic clubs get 11 home games plus a neutral game. Seven of these are played Gather around in Adelaide (it won’t work as well anywhere else - no one is driving to Perth). The other three neutral games are played in Darwin. Crowds and Port play home games in GR.
Alice Springs get the Indig All Stars game in Feb v reigning premiers.
Western Sydney and Gold Coast play all games in Sydney and QLD.
If the AFl and clubs still want to play games in small markets, maybe Cairns, NZ, Newcastle, Woolongong, Townsville, McKay Coffs Harbour get one (no stadium at half of those) if the price is right for clubs like Nth, Des, Saints or Hawks.

Would take that.

Maybe make opening round with all teams and can cover those small markets and that just leaves NZ as a voluntary secondary market that could be picked up by a club or two. One less home game for Vic clubs is not a big deal.

 

[Bjo187]

Canberra team 20.
Non Vox clubs get 12 homes games.
Vic clubs get 11 home games plus a neutral game. Seven of these are played Gather around in Adelaide (it won’t work as well anywhere else - no one is driving to Perth). The other three neutral games are played in Darwin. Crowds and Port play home games in GR.
Alice Springs get the Indig All Stars game in Feb v reigning premiers.
Western Sydney and Gold Coast play all games in Sydney and QLD.
If the AFl and clubs still want to play games in small markets, maybe Cairns, NZ, Newcastle, Woolongong, Townsville, McKay Coffs Harbour get one (no stadium at half of those) if the price is right for clubs like Nth, Des, Saints or Hawks.

I did think that myself actually, adding an extra round but making it that all Vic clubs play an extra away game in a regional location interstate. It doesn't need to all be in the same round either.

I would use that to cover all the non covered areas though. Newcastle, Cairns, McKay, Wollongong, Darwin, sunshine coast, central coast, wherever else has an ok population and facilities. You could use the nsw and qld teams to travel in their own state in these examples, such as swans v dogs in Newcastle.

 

[RedV3x]

I did think that myself actually, adding an extra round but making it that all Vic clubs play an extra away game in a regional location interstate. It doesn't need to all be in the same round either.

kevin sheedy once proposed an international round starting at the beginning of the season to minimse travel effects.

You could use the nsw and qld teams to travel in their own state in these examples,

Thus two games in Queensland, two games in N.S.W. and two games in N.T.(once a part of S.A.) for S.A. teams.
W.A.maybe one game and an international game.

 

[loco3]

Hawks actually were almost too successful. They did a great job in N.Z. and were popular in Tasmania
but they had not only recovered but were potent again ruling them out of relocation.



Good question.

Optus is a great stadium. The nufties in the East should have copied it in Sydney and Brisbane.
Looking at the population metrics only, WA3 is justified but not really wanted.
Looking a development metrics Qld3 offers more returns and is arguably wanted.
Looking at the Gather Round in isolation Optus Oval, WAFL grounds and say Bunbury would be attractive.
Looking at the Gather Round in development terms and potential gains then Sydney or Brisbane stand out.

To answer your question.
IMO I'd try International Rules. Subiaco was packed out last time and Optus would rock like no other stadium.
Maybe a AFLW Gather Round.
Personally I'd bring back the International Cup. Perth would really get behind that unlike Melbourne
and make it an event and not a chore as it has been treated.
And as often as calls for secession, there are calls for the return of S.O.O.
Who can forget Subiaco Oval being packed out on a Tuesday workday!

Let's look at the N.M. experiment. Maybe Optus Oval can be the retirement home for retiring Melbourne clubs.

Something out of left field.
There enough Irish players now to form their own team.
Perth Celtics anyone ?

I know it’s ridiculous, but I kind of dig the idea of a Celtics teams. Maybe the 3rd Sydney side eventually - a working class opponent to the swans. And a game in Dublin each year!

 

[Colonial]

Canberra. Full stop.

 

[Colonial]

I know it’s ridiculous, but I kind of dig the idea of a Celtics teams. Maybe the 3rd Sydney side eventually - a working class opponent to the swans. And a game in Dublin each year!

Only place for a 3rd club in Sydney is MacArthur.
Besides Giants finally being full time Western Sydney.

 

[Bjo187]

I know it’s ridiculous, but I kind of dig the idea of a Celtics teams. Maybe the 3rd Sydney side eventually - a working class opponent to the swans. And a game in Dublin each year!

This was initially the proposal for Sydney 2. I think it would have worked but how much it would grow I dunno. I think the initial base would have been stronger but a lot of Irish people are only here for a few years then head home. Of course the team would have had players from all cultures but yeah, interesting concept.

 

[Kappa]

I'd like to limit the competition to 20 teams if possible. There needs to be a possibility of winning a couple of flags in someone's lifetime or the whole reason to support a team becomes difficult to continue.

Team 20 - Canberra
Relocate 2 or 3 Victorian teams after that to Newcastle, Sunshine Coast and NT/NQ.

Hint North, Saints and Melbourne. Unless Melbourne merge with another Victorian team like Hawks.

There needs to be a 2nd competition to aim for.

1 flag for 20 teams is just not enough.

If Soccer can have an exciting tournament and a league we can too

 

[RedV3x]

I know it’s ridiculous, but I kind of dig the idea of a Celtics teams.

The Sydney Celtics has nice ring to it.
it would be a new direction creating a lot of interest

Maybe the 3rd Sydney side eventually - a working class opponent to the Swans.

Actually quite the opposite. ireland has one of the best economies around
and anyone who can afford to live in Sydney is doing well.

And a game in Dublin each year!

Just as AFL has replace S.O.O. Sydney Celtics would replace International Rules.

 

[RedV3x]

There needs to be a 2nd competition to aim for.

20 teams allows for two "conferences" - the AFL and the VFL, with two grand finals and a super bowl.
Each team would play their conference teams twice for 18 games and play half ayhe other conference for 5 more games.
23 game season with two final fours, two grand finals and one inter-conference grand final.
The inter-conference grand final would mean one Victorian team Vs one Australian team
ensuring a S.O.O finish which could be drawn out to a best of three games.