List Mgmt. 2025 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Punchy Bassett]

Good point. Can't carry a ruckman that has been dropped. Not like Collingwood did it in 2023 when they won the flag with Mason Cox as their ruckman.

Ruckman are like grades at university. P's get degrees and it doesn't matter whether you get a high distinction or a pass - you still get a degree.

Darcy Cameron was their main ruckman but go on.

 

[CharlieCrow]

Only 8 out of 30 selected in the Rookie Draft are genuine rookies.
The remaining 22 are:

• recycled players
• slotted into a parking station while the club did something else then called back in
• popped into the embarrassment group which is the one where the club is forced to keep them on because they didnt want to pay them out.

Why doesn't the AFL just own up to what's happening and:

• create an alternate place for these chaps to go - where they are not made to look like they are in heaven's waiting room!
• give clubs the opportunity to dump and run if things change ie an opportunity to draft Dodson pops up!
• ensure the rookie list is used for exactly what it was meant to be - for those higher risk untried players that deserve a chance - eg Charlie Cameron
  23

  Charlie Cameron

  Age

  30

  Ht

  180cm

  Wt

  76kg

  Pos.

  Fwd

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  12.1

  3star

  K

  8.4

  3star

  HB

  3.7

  3star

  M

  3.0

  3star

  T

  3.2

  5star

  G

  1.5

  5star

  D

  9.6

  2star

  K

  7.9

  3star

  HB

  1.7

  1star

  M

  3.6

  4star

  T

  1.7

  3star

  G

  1.9

  5star

  D

  9.6

  3star

  K

  5.4

  2star

  HB

  4.2

  4star

  M

  1.4

  2star

  T

  3.4

  5star

  G

  1.2

  4star

  , Rory Laird
  29

  Rory Laird

  Age

  30

  Ht

  177cm

  Wt

  85kg

  Pos.

  Mid

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  25.4

  5star

  K

  12.9

  5star

  HB

  12.5

  5star

  M

  5.4

  5star

  T

  2.3

  4star

  CL

  1.0

  3star

  D

  19.6

  5star

  K

  10.9

  4star

  HB

  8.7

  4star

  M

  3.4

  3star

  T

  2.4

  3star

  CL

  1.1

  3star

  D

  14.6

  4star

  K

  7.4

  3star

  HB

  7.2

  5star

  M

  3.2

  4star

  T

  4.0

  5star

  CL

  0.4

  3star

  , Ben Rutten
  Ben Rutten

  Age

  41

  Ht

  190cm

  Wt

  98kg

  Pos.

  Def

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  13.4

  3star

  K

  6.3

  2star

  HB

  7.0

  4star

  M

  5.3

  5star

  T

  1.3

  3star

  No current season stats available

  D

  10.6

  3star

  K

  6.2

  3star

  HB

  4.4

  4star

  M

  3.6

  4star

  T

  1.0

  3star

  etc etc

What a joke.

 

[AFC979810]

Darcy Cameron was their main ruckman but go on.

He was? Looks to me as though after being dropped Cox was the main ruckman for the all important finals series.

Didn't Cox have 92 hitouts to 52 of Camerons in the finals series?

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe we need a great ruckman like Cameron - would even be prepared to pay the hefty price tag Collingwood paid to get him. I think they gave up pick 56 for Cameron and pick 62.

 

[AFC979810]

Only 8 out of 30 selected in the Rookie Draft are genuine rookies.
The remaining 22 are:

• recycled players
• slotted into a parking station while the club did something else then called back in
• popped into the embarrassment group which is the one where the club is forced to keep them on because they didnt want to pay them out.

Why doesn't the AFL just own up to what's happening and:

• create an alternate place for these chaps to go - where they are not made to look like they are in heaven's waiting room!
• give clubs the opportunity to dump and run if things change ie an opportunity to draft Dodson pops up!
• ensure the rookie list is used for exactly what it was meant to be - for those higher risk untried players that deserve a chance - eg Charlie Cameron, Rory Laird, Ben Rutten etc etc

What a joke.

Its the AFL. Last year they called pick 29 of an 18 team league a first round draft pick.

The rookie draft works - its just stupidly named.

 

[Mostyn]

OK, but the point was he's not going to be ready for us as a lead-ruck in the next what, 5 years / 6 years / 7 years ... ?


I just don't see the develop your own from scratch option as being a better road to getting a ruck

I don't think all other clubs have success with that strategy either.



Maybe. We have a ruck right now, and a possible line to new one next year. I don't think our backup is great, would have preferred a better backup option from a trade than Strachan.



I think he's a decent option. I do see that as a better option than having a developing ruck from the draft.

I think your points are pretty reasonable.

I think - whether we agree or not - the club thinks ROB is fine for the time being. I'd rather they found someone younger and with more upside than Strachan, but it's obviously not a priority for them.

Considering the talent level of rucks for recent successful sides, it doesn't seem to be that important for success.

Personally, I'd rather one who can act like a bit of a midfielder around the ground, but I guess attention has been focused elsewhere

 

[Mostyn]

By not addressing it, we are now staring down the barrel at having to offer a below average player in Sam Draper a $1m/6 year deal.

Yeah, or someone else.

Clubs can pretty much only play one ruck, so there should be someone out there.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Its the AFL. Last year they called pick 29 of an 18 team league a first round draft pick.

The rookie draft works - it’s just stupidly named.

Name it the supplementary list and call it a day

 

[AFC979810]

B - Delisting them outright would have required us to include their 2025 salaries in our 2024 salary cap, which has already been (mostly) spent.

We've been over this time & time again over the last few weeks.

I guess this is the frustration.

Restructure a contract. What would we have paid Burgess or Schoenberg a year? 200k? Pay it out. And then shuffle a couple of other contracts to make that money available in 2025.

 

[Mutineer]

Only 8 out of 30 selected in the Rookie Draft are genuine rookies.
The remaining 22 are:

• recycled players
• slotted into a parking station while the club did something else then called back in
• popped into the embarrassment group which is the one where the club is forced to keep them on because they didnt want to pay them out.

Why doesn't the AFL just own up to what's happening and:

• create an alternate place for these chaps to go - where they are not made to look like they are in heaven's waiting room!
• give clubs the opportunity to dump and run if things change ie an opportunity to draft Dodson pops up!
• ensure the rookie list is used for exactly what it was meant to be - for those higher risk untried players that deserve a chance - eg Charlie Cameron, Rory Laird, Ben Rutten etc etc

What a joke.

6 others walked through to their club via the NGA Academies. Ricky Mentha (Demons), Josiai Delana (Giants), Benny Barrett (Powa), Malakai Champion (WCE), Jayden Nguyen (Bombers), Lachie Gublin (Suns).

 

[AFC979810]

Yeah, or someone else.

Clubs can pretty much only play one ruck, so there should be someone out there.

Plenty of options..... Look at the past 15 years of trading. Rucks are dirt cheap. And guess what - if none are available give ROB a one year extension that over pays him for 2026 if we think we are in a flag window.

 

[AFC979810]

6 others walked through to their club via the NGA Academies. Ricky Mentha (Demons), Josiai Delana (Giants), Benny Barrett (Powa), Malakai Champion (WCE), Jayden Nguyen (Bombers), Lachie Gublin (Suns).

Two questions:

1. Was Malakai Champion rated highly early?
2. Is he any relation to Richard?

 

[Mutineer]

Two questions:

1. Was Malakai Champion rated highly early?
2. Is he any relation to Richard?

Not really

No, he's indigenous and Eddie Betts nephew.

 

[AFC979810]

Not really

No, he's indigenous and Eddie Betts nephew.

Wow. I really struck out there.

 

[George Kramer]

Yeah, or someone else.

Clubs can pretty much only play one ruck, so there should be someone out there.

Ok, give an opinion before the event. Whats your thoughts on targeting Draper with a big contract?

 

[George Kramer]

Plenty of options..... Look at the past 15 years of trading. Rucks are dirt cheap. And guess what - if none are available give ROB a one year extension that over pays him for 2026 if we think we are in a flag window.

What about when we drop ROB again for sucking?

 

[AFC979810]

What about when we drop ROB again for sucking?

Meh - ROB has played 44 of 46 games the past 2 seasons. He was dropped once for 2 games.

Bring in another average ruckman for him. Play Strachan. Give a 3rd rounder for some other ruckman for 2026.

It doesn't really bloody matter. Just get someone semi-capable and we will be just fine. Shit - maybe bring in Darcy Fort, Mason Cox, Tom Hickey, Nank or Nathan Vardy. They were all good enough to win a premiership medal as lead ruckman on grand final day.

 

[hugecannon]

Rumour has it we're heavily into Essendon's Sam Draper, which would be disappointing, as he's a massive, massive, downgrade on ROB. Sam Draper is a FA next year. Having 2 S Drapers on our list is going to cause mass confusion.

We would also need to find a "mature aged plug-and-play SANFL backup" ruckman, in the mould of Strachan/Lowden/Graham. These players are usually grabbed very cheaply, using a late draft pick (noting we currently have 3x 3rd round and 2x 4th round picks)

Surely we’re due to pick up Tom Campbell in a couple of years……everyone else has!

 

[relapse]

Haven’t needed to? We have dropped ROB 2 years running and being a leader of the club it means and with little back up, we’ve carried him for a period of poor form. We are now stuck with that shitty ruck pairing for another year.

Murray ain’t a ruck, he’s a forward who can pinch hit in the ruck. Ogilvie when discussing rucks yesterday mentioned ROB and Strachan, their age and needing to do something about it, no mention of Murray.

So you would have been happy with us drafting Moyle, you would have been happy with us drafting Dodson. The complaint from those that want a developing ruck is we haven’t drafted one at all since ROB and Strachan. In the meantime we’ve blown high and multiple picks on mids, forwards and backs.

You don’t want a mobile ruckman that can win his own ball to complement the midfield? Why not? That was our opportunity with Dodson.

Looks like we are targeting Draper on big money, is that a better option than developing our own?

The main issue for me is that our list management seems to always be reactive and there never seems to be much foresight.

Look how many years we had been calling for the club to focus on rebuilding the midfield before they started to address it.

It's the same story with our ruck stocks,

Ruckman normally have the longest development arc of all players so the club can't afford to just keep kicking the can down the road. Stratchan is a spud who's not even close to being AFL standard and ROB is a mediocre ruck heading into the twilight of his career. The club desperately needs to be focused on bolstering its ruck stocks, we missed a prime opportunity last year with Jordan Sweet and this year we had a chance to secure Dodson, but didn't take it.

There's been questions for a while over our list/contract management, it's hard to deny that it was poor management to have so many average players locked into deals which left us hamstrung with our list. We 100% should have been in a position to swoop in on Dodson if he was available and it's poor that the club went into the draft thinking that all we needed was Draper.

Sometimes it feels like Reid is sitting there playing checkers while other list managers are playing chess.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Not sure how people can say ROB is good enough when he's been dropped last two seasons now.

ROB is around AFL average for a ruckman.

He is never going to be amongst the best, but not near worst either.

Problem is his taps don't usually convert to a real advantage & doesn't do enough around the ground.

 

[Vader]

I guess this is the frustration.

Restructure a contract. What would we have paid Burgess or Schoenberg a year? 200k? Pay it out. And then shuffle a couple of other contracts to make that money available in 2025.

I suspect they'd be on more than that - probably $300-400K.

I also suspect that we shuffled contracts forward, bringing future payments into 2024, in order to maximise our future caps - which allowed us to attract ANB, Peatling & Cumming.

You can't really have it both ways - shuffling payments right to payout delisted players, while also shuffling payments left to make room for trade & free agents.

Moving the payments left would have happened first, before they made the frustrating/boneheaded list management decisions (Smith/Berry/Cook) which would have required payouts to negate.

October is too late to be re-negotiating contracts, as the money has already been paid.

 

[Mostyn]

There's been questions for a while over our list/contract management, it's hard to deny that it was poor management to have so many average players locked into deals which left us hamstrung with our list. We 100% should have been in a position to swoop in on Dodson if he was available and it's poor that the club went into the draft thinking that all we needed was Draper.

Sometimes it feels like Reid is sitting there playing checkers while other list managers are playing chess.

I think Reid is pretty widely considered one of the better list managers.

I agree that we should have really freed up at least one more spot, but I'm not going to lose sleep over missing out on someone taken at pick 53.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Darcy Cameron was their main ruckman but go on.

Or not...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Only 8 out of 30 selected in the Rookie Draft are genuine rookies.
The remaining 22 are:

• recycled players
• slotted into a parking station while the club did something else then called back in
• popped into the embarrassment group which is the one where the club is forced to keep them on because they didnt want to pay them out.

Why doesn't the AFL just own up to what's happening and:

• create an alternate place for these chaps to go - where they are not made to look like they are in heaven's waiting room!
• give clubs the opportunity to dump and run if things change ie an opportunity to draft Dodson pops up!
• ensure the rookie list is used for exactly what it was meant to be - for those higher risk untried players that deserve a chance - eg Charlie Cameron, Rory Laird, Ben Rutten etc etc

What a joke.

Just get rid of the rookie list & have bigger lists.

 

[relapse]

Just get rid of the rookie list & have bigger lists.

I agree, the rookie list is no longer what it was originally intended to be.

Just scrap it and give the clubs bigger lists.

 

[relapse]

I think Reid is pretty widely considered one of the better list managers.

I agree that we should have really freed up at least one more spot, but I'm not going to lose sleep over missing out on someone taken at pick 53.

I bet you will change your mind on that if ROB gets hurt and we have to play Shirley Stratchan for an extended period.