Training 2024 Preseason training reports and discussion

[Nathan Barley]

Even on a "down year" Gunners got more touches per game and kicked straighter than Hipwood who was on way more coin in 2023

It's almost as if you can't just judge a player performance based on a couple of stats

 

[Grasshopper17]

Sounds interesting, I'll look that up. In my head a big jump was with Mick Malthouse leading up to the 2010 premiership, in particular to be able to use Dane Swan in repeated 4 minute bursts before he got gassed.

It's a brilliant book, detailing the evolution of strategy in Aussie rules, right back to the 1860s when Tom Wills blatantly flaunted the absence of any offside rule, shocking spectators and opponents alike.

 

[p4p1]

In the very excellent book Time And Space, Chris Connolly at Fremantle is given most of the credit/blame for the skyrocketing use of interchange.

I'm definitely going to check that book out. It sounds very interesting.

 

[p4p1]

It's a brilliant book, detailing the evolution of strategy in Aussie rules, right back to the 1860s when Tom Wills blatantly flaunted the absence of any offside rule, shocking spectators and opponents alike.

For ****s sake now I want to read it right now. I'm gonna be going crazy at work because I can't read it here.

 

[Grasshopper17]

For *s sake now I want to read it right now. I'm gonna be going crazy at work because I can't read it here.

I got it as an ebook. So wherever my phone goes, the book goes

Time and Space, James Coventry.

Time and Space: Footy Tactics from Origins to AFL by James Coventry - Books on Google Play

Time and Space: Footy Tactics from Origins to AFL - Ebook written by James Coventry. Read this book using Google Play Books app on your PC, android, iOS devices. Download for offline reading, highlight, bookmark or take notes while you read Time and Space: Footy Tactics from Origins to AFL.

play.google.com

 

[Section 5]

The women (in general) don't have the professional fitness levels required to get ahead of the ball and spread into the space to better account for it, nor the skills to successfully hit players in that space. We're starting to see the latter with some good ball movement from teams including us where it's surprisingly easy to go from end to end because of that space, as long as you're actually hitting targets in stride. The men can do both today. It will change over time in the women's as well.

I would love the last possession rule to come in too, but that's because it's so much cleaner than the "insufficient intent" lottery currently played.

I have come to love the last possession rule in the AFLW.
It still has some chance to be adjudicated incorrectly.
Human error is always at play. But even in the crappy umpiring at AFLW level they rarely get that rule wrong.
Any indecision by the umpires and it just becomes a boundary throw in anyhow.
I believe the last touch rule is applied in some other state mens competitions but can't recall where.

This one rule change at AFL level would be one way to open the game up a bit more, in my opinion.
But with any rule change there is an outcry from somewhere.

The boundary free kick in AFLW is immediate, and the ball carries forward quickly.
This is way better than waiting for the rucks to arrive and then throw the ball in.

As you mentioned the insufficient intent rule is a lottery and the last touch rule is way less open to interpretation.

Regarding what started the conversation (The Flying Belgian) 16 + 6 on the bench.
I don't see any version of 16 + coming in anytime soon at AFL level.
The AFLW is more of a chance to increase numbers to 18 before i see the mens dropping to 16.
In my wild opinion the AFL may consider zones before thinking about lowering the on field mens numbers to open up play.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I have come to love the last possession rule in the AFLW.
It still has some chance to be adjudicated incorrectly.
Human error is always at play. But even in the crappy umpiring at AFLW level they rarely get that rule wrong.
Any indecision by the umpires and it just becomes a boundary throw in anyhow.
I believe the last touch rule is applied in some other state mens competitions but can't recall where.

This one rule change at AFL level would be one way to open the game up a bit more, in my opinion.
But with any rule change there is an outcry from somewhere.

The boundary free kick in AFLW is immediate, and the ball carries forward quickly.
This is way better than waiting for the rucks to arrive and then throw the ball in.

As you mentioned the insufficient intent rule is a lottery and the last touch rule is way less open to interpretation.

Regarding what started the conversation (The Flying Belgian) 16 + 6 on the bench.
I don't see any version of 16 + coming in anytime soon at AFL level.
The AFLW is more of a chance to increase numbers to 18 before i see the mens dropping to 16.
In my wild opinion the AFL may consider zones before thinking about lowering the on field mens numbers to open up play.

Completely agree that last touch should come in for AFL. Works really well in the SANFL apparently.

 

[Nunez]

Completely agree that last touch should come in for AFL. Works really well in the SANFL apparently.

I'm a big fan of last touch too. With the exception of a contested ball going out, it just makes sense.

 

[Jivlain]

I got it as an ebook. So wherever my phone goes, the book goes

Time and Space, James Coventry.

Time and Space: Footy Tactics from Origins to AFL by James Coventry - Books on Google Play

Time and Space: Footy Tactics from Origins to AFL - Ebook written by James Coventry. Read this book using Google Play Books app on your PC, android, iOS devices. Download for offline reading, highlight, bookmark or take notes while you read Time and Space: Footy Tactics from Origins to AFL.

play.google.com

Yeah I quite enjoyed that one. Can recommend.

 

[Section 5]

I'm a big fan of last touch too. With the exception of a contested ball going out, it just makes sense.

If a contested ball goes out it is a throw in for the ladies game.

So, do you want that to be a free kick? or were you not quite sure what the ruling is.

The 'last touch rule" is a misleading name but it has stuck. Not sure what it should be shortened too though.
................
for those that don't watch the AFLW, below is the rule.

2018

A player will be penalised with a free kick if they kick or handball the ball over the boundary line without it being touched by an opposition player (Last Disposal Out of Bounds Rule)

2019

The Last Disposal Out of Bounds Rule will now only operate between the 50m arcs.

Combined AFL explanation of the two rules
Last disposal between the arcs
If the ball goes out of bounds between the forward and defensive 50m arcs as a result of a kick or handball, the opposing team will receive a free kick where the ball crossed the line. If it is not clear who touched the ball last, it is thrown in. This rule was introduced to reduce congestion and secondary stoppages.

 

[Nunez]

If a contested ball goes out it is a throw in for the ladies game.

So, do you want that to be a free kick? or were you not quite sure what the ruling is.

The 'last touch rule" is a misleading name but it has stuck. Not sure what it should be shortened too though.
................
for those that don't watch the AFLW, below is the rule.

2018

A player will be penalised with a free kick if they kick or handball the ball over the boundary line without it being touched by an opposition player (Last Disposal Out of Bounds Rule)

2019

The Last Disposal Out of Bounds Rule will now only operate between the 50m arcs.

Combined AFL explanation of the two rules
Last disposal between the arcs
If the ball goes out of bounds between the forward and defensive 50m arcs as a result of a kick or handball, the opposing team will receive a free kick where the ball crossed the line. If it is not clear who touched the ball last, it is thrown in. This rule was introduced to reduce congestion and secondary stoppages.

Sorry if my post was confusing - I know the rule, was just saying that last touch free kick (outside of a ball that spills out in a contested situation) makes sense. It eliminates the unbelievably inconsistent 'insufficient attempt' and replaces it with a black and white rule.

 

[Dalions]

If a contested ball goes out it is a throw in for the ladies game.

So, do you want that to be a free kick? or were you not quite sure what the ruling is.

The 'last touch rule" is a misleading name but it has stuck. Not sure what it should be shortened too though.
................
for those that don't watch the AFLW, below is the rule.

2018

A player will be penalised with a free kick if they kick or handball the ball over the boundary line without it being touched by an opposition player (Last Disposal Out of Bounds Rule)

2019

The Last Disposal Out of Bounds Rule will now only operate between the 50m arcs.

Combined AFL explanation of the two rules
Last disposal between the arcs
If the ball goes out of bounds between the forward and defensive 50m arcs as a result of a kick or handball, the opposing team will receive a free kick where the ball crossed the line. If it is not clear who touched the ball last, it is thrown in. This rule was introduced to reduce congestion and secondary stoppages.

In the AFL a touch isn’t considered a touch until a posession and an effective disposal is taken, so it is a “last touch rule” on that basis.

 

[SizeMatters]

What about just leaving the game alone for a decade before making changes… every rule change from the stupid 666 rule onwards has eroded the game. Interchange caps should have been the last rule brought in. Disgrace.

 

[Elixuh]

You guys are all obsessed with gunners, you need to let him go

 

[Nunez]

You guys are all obsessed with gunners, you need to let him go

Yeah, Arsenal suck. If you're not on the Luton wagon, you're not a true soccer fan.

 

[Dalions]

Yeah, Arsenal suck. If you're not on the Luton wagon, you're not a true soccer fan.

Luton Suck!

 

[Nunez]

Luton Suck!

You're fired!!

 

[Section 5]

A few more days and with luck a few from BF will attend the training sessions.
I am sure the boys will come back in good shape.
They would expect running sessions this week to make sure that is the case.
I will wait till the following week to attend weather permitting.

Conor Mckenna will be a little more acclimatized to the Brisbane weather compared to last year.
He was absolutely spent when i took this photo of him during a match sim on the 23/1/2023

 

[Nunez]

Crazy to think we're two months off round one!

 

[Section 5]

Crazy to think we're two months off round one!

True but it still feels a long break between games.
Not as bad as the teams that missed the 8 though. Lucky for us that has been quite a few years ago now.

First unofficial preseason game v Suns is getting closer being Thursday Feb 22 BHA 5pm.
That 5pm start will keep quite a few away and it is the only preseason game in Brisbane.

 

[Grasshopper17]

True but it still feels a long break between games.
Not as bad as the teams that missed the 8 though. Lucky for us that has been quite a few years ago now.

First unofficial preseason game v Suns is getting closer being Thursday Feb 22 BHA 5pm.
That 5pm start will keep quite a few away and it is the only preseason game in Brisbane.

Possibly a few early Friday knock-offs coming up when the scratch matches start. Don't tell the boss!

 

[McIvor]

What about just leaving the game alone for a decade before making changes… every rule change from the stupid 666 rule onwards has eroded the game. Interchange caps should have been the last rule brought in. Disgrace.

The administrators are always trying to leave their mark on the game by constantly being cute with the game. Whenever I see old games from the 90’s and 00’s I think it’s a much better game and yet year after year they seem to think it needs improving and same with the draft and trade periods like that is some form of entertainment that requires multiple versions and now mid season varieties. Start a season with a squad and end a season with a squad but no let’s replicate US and European sports because we’re so unoriginal that needs to copy everything they’re doing.

 

[Grasshopper17]

The administrators are always trying to leave their mark on the game by constantly being cute with the game. Whenever I see old games from the 90’s and 00’s I think it’s a much better game and yet year after year they seem to think it needs improving and same with the draft and trade periods like that is some form of entertainment that requires multiple versions and now mid season varieties. Start a season with a squad and end a season with a squad but no let’s replicate US and European sports because we’re so unoriginal that needs to copy everything they’re doing.

Sadly, I think general training and strategic developments have affected the look of the game more than any rule changes. The vast majority of rules introduced since the 1990s have been aimed at counteracting this prevalence of defence over attack.

You'll find this has been the case in many sports over the course of our lifetimes... Cricket had the 30m fielding circle, NRL had the 40/20, NFL, well you could go on forever but the treatment now allowed of quarterbacks is sufficient.

Indeed, I'd argue the last rule change introduced which aided defences was the crackdown on holding the ball in 1996. Ironically enough, that rule change was largely celebrated at the time, because until that point the tackler received very little reward for effort, despite previous rule changes to combat Kevin Bartlett-type behaviour.

Unfortunately that single rule change has had a cascading effect on the game over the last 28 years. With tackling becoming better rewarded, teams began focusing on the skill more and more, both from an execution point of view (ie how can we tackle better?) and from a strategic point of view (ie how can we tackle more often?).

That, combined with full time playing lists and improved training methods, has had a large impact on the congestion we see today, and I believe it's a huge contributing factor to most if not all the rule changes we've discussed here in these last couple of pages.

While I still believe the 1996 rule change was worthwhile and resulted in a better balance between tackler and ball-carrier, part of me wonders where the game might be now had the tackle remained a skill primarily used to ret@rd (I can't believe that word is censored!) the ball-carrier and/or force neutral ball situations (in most cases), rather than to gain possession via free kick. Scoring in the mid 90s was already lower than it was during the halcyon 80s, but who knows, perhaps the continued decline to current levels may have been stymied somewhat?

 

[The Flying Belgian]

The administrators are always trying to leave their mark on the game by constantly being cute with the game. Whenever I see old games from the 90’s and 00’s I think it’s a much better game and yet year after year they seem to think it needs improving.

Games from the 90s and 00s were a far more watchable product until coaches worked out how to game the game. In that same time players got ultra-fit and strong. That's why the necessity for rule changes. Some will work and some won't work, but I can't abide people who on one hand complain about congested play or a lack of scoring and then cry "leave the game alone".

 

[On the quiet]

Living here in Brissy, get to watch a bit of NRL and have noticed over the years that the NRL has reduced the interchange in an attempt to balance the influence of the power athlete (mostly pacific islanders) with the smaller constructive type ball playing players, who can create opportunities when fatigue is a factor.

I don't want to see the AFL change too much, other than slightly reduce the interchange over the next couple of years. Don't know what the ideal number is, but perhaps 50-55. It annoys me when I see someone kick a goal, reasonably early in a game only to be subbed. Reducing the interchange means more fatigue, which IMO likely opens up the game, but arguably may impact on the overall skill level of the game?