List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[gbatman]

The best thing about this loss is that it stamps the needs of our list firmly and squarely on the middle of the forhead of our coaches and list management.

I don't know how I have been aware of the problems of our midfield for 3 years now and nothing has changed. We have not recruited one quick mid who is good at applying pressure in that time apart from maybe Lord.

Out of Cerra, Kennedy and Hewett, 2 need to go. Unless we are getting nothing for them and can't land any decent midfielders that needs to happen. Slowest midfield in the league is not making finals next season.

We also need to float a few of the makeshift forwards. Fantasia, Durdin, Fogarty and Cottrell are not proper forwards and do not have the skills or the smarts to play as forwards. E Hollands is a midfielder who is not being played in the midfield and so is Kennedy.

There are a lot of teams who went past us this season and there will be a lot more who will go past us next season.

Problem is the coach rates his slow team and overrates too many of the players who are the problem.

Midfielders who don't lay good tackle numbers aren't good midfielders.

 

[Stamos]

I too still put the list problems more down to SOS, what you do 5-8 year prior in draft/trading is the main reason why a list is in the state it is.

We stuffed up getting quality mids and any fast outside players or small forwards in his time and we had to go out and try and rectify it with trades and free agents, and Martin and Williams have not come off.

Acres and Saad have.

You know Williams wasn’t SOS, right?

 

[Blue1980]

Cerra has had 5 hamstrings in 12 months.

You’d struggle to get that.


Kennedy isn’t getting you a first, maybe a 3rd.

Williams would be for free or we could get anyone to take on his salary.

Some of these suggestions are clearly blue coloured views and then you’d also need to replace said players list spots with a bunch of delisted free agents or VFL players because you’d be bundling these picks to try and move up the draft or obtain a 2-3 players.

Tbh I think a 4th rounder for Durdin is a stretch too

 

[marcmurphy3]

Tbh I think a 4th rounder for Durdin is a stretch too

If we delisted Durdin tomorrow, it's quite likely nobody picks him up. Makes the 2 year contract all the more confusing.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I’d hope to see. Young and fresh

Docherty Silvagni McGovern
Wilson Weitering Sinn
Acres Cripps Walsh
Moir Kemp Kostanty
Charlie McKay Berry
TDK Lord Elijah
Cerra Cowan Binns Cincotta Ollie Motlop

Just passing on what I heard from a previous junior coach of his, but heard Sinn is a big time FIGJAM.

Always liked him as a junior, was surprised he slid on draft night but put it down to that potentially being a factor.

Don't mind the rest of it but I wouldn't have Motlop anywhere near this team unless he comes back 7kgs lighter and twice as fit next year.

Also don't think SOS ever ends up a KPD. Not athletic enough

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Already said positions of need in original post…

Mid/Late First - Cerra
Late First/ Early Second - Kennedy & Kemp
Second - Owies & Pittonet (Inflated due to league shortage)
Early Third - Williams & Cottrell
Third - Motlop & Carroll
Fourth - Durdin

As it stands, I see the value as:

Cerra - early 2nd
Kennedy - mid to late 2nd
Kemp - early 2nd - age and versatility
Owies - late 2nd-3rd
Pittonet - late 2nd
Williams - late 3rd- no value
Cottrell - 4th - no value
Motlop - late 2nd due to previous years and youth
Carroll - Third
Durdin - No value

We're not far apart. Just think Cerra's value has plummeted due to form and injury.

 

[Blue1980]

Cerra out to free up cap space, maybe even pay some of his salary.

Any fringe player with some pace and skill at another AFL side should be strongly considered.

Of our midfielders the only one I could see realistically going is Kennedy.

Hewett is fairly cheap and great value at his price (like acres) and I think Cerra just needs a good pre season, letting him go now wouldn’t make sense as his value would be at its lowest.

He shouldn’t have played last night and shouldn’t been dropped to the vfl or been made to come back through the vfl when he came in around the Richmond game. But he was our best mid last year through the whole season, so definitely not giving up on him.

 

[Blue1980]

North light on?

LDU Sheezel Wardlaw Simpkin Phillips McKercher Powell Lazarro Duursma is a bloody talented midfield to me

A lot are pretty young, so could do with a bigger body in there.

 

[Pablito]

Please don’t recruit any more small forwards who have the running capacities of 90’s full-forwards.

We have a small forward problem 100%.

Motlop has to be the slowest player his size off the mark to ever pull on a Carlton jumper. How many times did he get chased down last night? 4? 5?

Durdin seems to have regressed year on year. Is it a body issue? A coaching?

Zac Williams is becoming a problem. Is he a forward? No. Defender? No. What is he?

Owies is one dimensional. Probably the best of the lot though.

Fantasia has the tools. Just can't seem to get involved anywhere near enough.

Fogarty is a great pressure player and can work his way up the field well. But doesn't hit the scoreboard enough.

Who is our forwards coach? At one point last night TDK was roving the front of the pack and our smalls were no where near the contest. Happens all too often.

 

[Blue1980]

Maybe. I still think they are a lot better than they are showing. The question is how much better

I find it very hard to judge players when I believe we are just playing dumb football that makes it hard on everybody

Seriously, how many of our players have improved and really stepped up this year?

Improved

Cowan
Ollie slightly
Harry maybe his best season
TDK
Elijah (on his GC output)
Boyd

Everyone I can think of who has gone backwards in output has been injury affected.

 

[bradfisher14]

Need to take contracts into account. As we signed Durdin till 2026 he won’t be going anywhere (cam Polson 2 year contract vibes)

That was Sam Durdin. Don’t blame you for forgetting he’s on our list.

 

[DEliades]

Exit meetings are Wednesday, Thursday and Friday

 

[Blue1980]

The thing that worries/ makes me nervous is how vossy and co see the list right now and where we are at.
IMO, we only need a few specific tweaks and we should be fine.
But, are the powers at Carlton knowing what the team requires and will they make some suitable changes accordingly?
Or are we going to sit on our hands and back in who we have on the list currently and hope we come good next year?

I don’t think the club is delusional at all.

I think what happened this year was, amazingly guys like Cuningham, Martin and Marchy were all fit for the second half of last year at the same time, so we gave them a chance thinking their injury struggles might be behind them. We found out that wasn’t the case.

Also flogging the guys in pre season back in Feb was clearly a terrible call and meant we basically peaked at R15 or so and had a small window of little injuries during that 5 game mid season run.

5 less permanently injured players, a new fitness boss and see how we go in that regard.

The club certainly knows we need pace, that’s why you had decision like dropping Hewett mid season to try and rectify it (problem was it was for guys like Cottrell and Cerra who should of come back via VFL).

 

[Blue1980]

Cunners and Martin had a huge influence on our good form in the back half of last year, which lead to our most successful year since 2000.
Martin was on the last year of a heavily front-ended contract. It just didn’t make sense to trade him last year. And Cunners got a low- money 1 year deal. We would have been replacing him with a 4th round pick.
We also brought in Elijah and Moir as longer term replacements.

Sam Durdin, a mature age key defender who we would be trying to replace with a rookie pick. As we saw with the KPD market last yea, not so easy.

Now it has gone horribly for those 3, and Marchy, this year. But I don’t consider it a huge failure by Austin.
They all have to go this year though, obviously.

It’s all hindsight, no one wanted to get rid of them end of last year.

They thankfully all had deals which end this year.

 

[Blue1980]

You know Williams wasn’t SOS, right?

I know, Saad wasn’t either.

It’s more we have tried to rectify the stuffed drafting with mixed results.

 

[Own The Future]

List management issues are there and we all know the areas of need: speed, elite disposal, forward pressure, key defenders, etc. But the thing that worries me almost as most as all that is the collective IQ of the list. Some of the decision making is laughably bad. I lost count last night alone the number of times we handballed to a player who had a player a foot away and was immediately tackled. I get that the directive would have been to take the game on, but surely within that there is some level of common sense?
The fear is that we just have too many who are well below AFL average in footy IQ, and that is difficult to address quickly.

 

[M_I_G]

Do we give them Mad Monday and then cut on Tuesday, or do we tell them now and make Mad Monday farewell drinks?

I don't think they deserve a celebration frankly.

Was thinking about this last night tbh
Hold off convos until Tuesday..don’t want to spoil the mood

 

[HarryFlashman]

Hewett is higher quality than Fog as well.

Definitely, point was Hew would be lucky to break into the top 60 for his position & that’s probably being generous.

 

[RAPPA]

The required changes to list management need to also be complemented by changes in the assistant coaching ranks.

 

[AB_Blue]

He had heart though, and he added momentum and ball movement immediately.

Charges the ball forward from the contest…that’s what made our forward handball game
elite through the first half of the season

 

[Stamos]

List management issues are there and we all know the areas of need: speed, elite disposal, forward pressure, key defenders, etc. But the thing that worries me almost as most as all that is the collective IQ of the list. Some of the decision making is laughably bad. I lost count last night alone the number of times we handballed to a player who had a player a foot away and was immediately tackled. I get that the directive would have been to take the game on, but surely within that there is some level of common sense?
The fear is that we just have too many who are well below AFL average in footy IQ, and that is difficult to address quickly.

This is a coaching issue.
Sure there a players in the League with high footy IQ, and there are players with less.
But the sheer amount of moronic decisions we make on field has to be about not being well drilled enough.

 

[AB_Blue]

You leave my George alone....one of the best last night

On CPH2135 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Bloody oath…he’s been huge for us over the last month of footy

 

[AB_Blue]

I would include Lord as one of the midfield main stayers starting next year.

Cripps and Lord make a good combination.

Lord loves getting his hands dirty with the ground balls in dispute....which frees up Cripps to more damage moving the ball away from the heat

Get another pacey power type mid with good kicking skills on the outside.

THIS

 

[jj1978]

I'd love for the AFL to introduce "Exit Interview Radio".

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I'd love for the AFL to introduce "Exit Interview Radio".

I would literally pay per interview to be allowed to watch on a camera the list team and Vossy giving it to them