List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[HereComesJuddy]

Would the dogs be willing to pay a portion of his salary? They have to fit in English ands there other stars in the salary cap

Very very doubtful they would pay. He will get to the Cats for this years and next years 1st with them getting a 2nd back and the Dogs who very well could win this years premiership will get a nice draft hand for the next 2 years.

We need very good young guys who haven’t hit their potential as of yet. We have the key pillars and we’re 2nd in the ladder most of the year. We need to add to that and have better depth and better B and C grade players than what we currently do.

We aren’t far off but we really need to make some big moves this off season

 

[Accidental genius]

At his best he is a difference maker. We came to life in the last quarter when he started to have a meaningful impact. I think it’s fair to say more so than any other player Carlton goes as Walsh does.

I do think he needs help with the mental side of his game. He tries to do too much and often calls for the ball in bad positions resulting in bad possessions. His endeavour and intent however should never be in question IMO.

I think someone made the point he hasn’t had a full pre season since 2021 - has he been mismanaged? - so hopefully he can get that in 2024/25, and with a few tweaks, he can be the player we all think he can be.

I’ve got no question about his preparation or effort…I just don’t think he’s strong enough tbh …modern game mids are like terriors …bulldogs have got the bont and Libba …in our case Cripps does the heavy lifting but we don’t have anyone with the required strength/speed and kicking skills to get the ball out in a meaningful way. When Walsh does get space he kicks it long or to an Oppo defender. It really isn’t good.

 

[Opium]

Very very doubtful they would pay. He will get to the Cats for this years and next years 1st with them getting a 2nd back and the Dogs who very well could win this years premiership will get a nice draft hand for the next 2 years.

We need very good young guys who haven’t hit their potential as of yet. We have the key pillars and we’re 2nd in the ladder most of the year. We need to add to that and have better depth and better B and C grade players than what we currently do.

We aren’t far off but we really need to make some big moves this off season

Zac Williams contact has really hamstrung us.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Id sacrifice every one of Owies, Motlop, Durdin, Cottrell, Fantasia and Cuningham in one of those Bohemian Grove blood sacrifices to get Martin fit and healthy for a full season but unfortunately I can't and thus Martin will continue to be made of glass.

The issue isnt that Martins irreplaceable anyway, it's that the rest are absolutely awful. Bobby Hill is the Pies equivalent of Martin but he can actually stay on the park. We need to find our own one somehow

Then imo you move on Owies, Fantasia and Cuningham and replace them with someone who might be that player. If that player fails then you cross your fingers and hope Martin gets fit otherwise you are left with nothing.
Individually there is nothing wrong with having S Durdin, Marchbank, Cuningham, Gov and Martin on your list, having all of them is the problem. Saving two spots for Gov and Martin who are X Factors is worth the risk.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Zac Williams contact has really hamstrung us.

True. But he has found his place and if he played tonight we win.

Williams will be great forward either in finals or next year.

We need an influx of players under 23 who can play multiple positions.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Then imo you move on Owies, Fantasia and Cuningham and replace them with someone who might be that player. If that player fails then you cross your fingers and hope Martin gets fit otherwise you are left with nothing.
Individually there is nothing wrong with having S Durdin, Marchbank, Cuningham, Gov and Martin on your list, having all of them is the problem. Saving two spots for Gov and Martin who are X Factors is worth the risk.

Only way I’d contemplate keeping Martin is if we rookie listed him. He plays not enough to warrant a senior spot

 

[Opium]

True. But he has found his place and if he played tonight we win.

Williams will be great forward either in finals or next year.

We need an influx of players under 23 who can play multiple positions.

The issue is he's always injured too. Can't be relied on.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

The issue is he's always injured too. Can't be relied on.

Still has 2 more years in contract if I remember correctly so it’s kinda a suck it and see scenario with Zac.

Also a reason why I expect Owies and Martin to be delisted. Need to save a little more cash and Martin’s body is shot

 

[Opium]

Still has 2 more years in contract if I remember correctly so it’s kinda a suck it and see scenario with Zac.

Also a reason why I expect Owies and Martin to be delisted. Need to save a little more cash and Martin’s body is shot

Terrible contract costing us 850k a season.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Terrible contract costing us 850k a season.

Sure is. But hey, Charlie and Harry cost us probably 2 million combined and Frampton and Moore kept them to 1 goal. ****ing Frampton for **** sake

Cerra probably $700k and his hamstrings are shot.

Let’s focus on the next rather than mistakes in the past. No one can forecast injuries

 

[Wickzki]

Realistically:

2025 - Best 18

B B Kemp (vacant) L Cowan
HB A Saad J Weitering N Newman
C B Acres M Kennedy S Walsh
HF (vacant) H McKay E Hollands
F J Motlop C Curnow L Fogarty
R T De Koning P Cripps G Hewett

2025 - Interchange / Depth / Injury Prone Players (pick 4)

J Binns - J Boyd - A Cerra - A Cincotta - M Cottrell - S Docherty - C Durdin - O Fantasia - O Hollands - H Lemmey - O Lord - M McGovern - A Moir - R Monahan - H O'Keeffe - M Pittonet - J Silvagni - Z Williams - B Wilson - L Young

===

2025 Delisted / Retired / Free Agents Out

D Akuei - M Carroll - D Cuningham - S Durdin - C Marchbank - J Martin - A Mirkov

2025 Traded Out

Possible Trade Out: J Carroll - M Owies

Best 18 Needs: Reliable key defender, dynamic forward.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thoughts?

 

[Blue1980]

It appears the club has had enough of Martin and will not be at the club next year and for good reason. I know we all hoped he would be a star for our club but he just isn’t no matter how much people like to sugar coat it.

He is done, and won't be on an afl list next year. His body just can't hack it, I am guessing he will probably retire.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Go get Rosas from GCS playing as a sub and in the ressies. He'd offer plenty as a lightning quick small forward and wouldn't cost a fortune.

Jamaine Jones

31

Jamaine Jones

Age

26

Ht

180cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.0

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

4.2

3star

M

2.1

2star

T

3.8

5star

MG

159.6

3star

D

10.5

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

4.0

5star

MG

196.5

3star

D

9.0

3star

K

4.2

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

4.2

5star

MG

166.0

3star

as a FA would be one id look at too. Good skills, tough and fast. Isn't the highest production player but we don't need him to be. Can play HB, wing or HF.

Just please anyone with some speed to get loose out the back or keep up with a Bobby Hill type

 

[Blue1980]

At his best he is a difference maker. We came to life in the last quarter when he started to have a meaningful impact. I think it’s fair to say more so than any other player Carlton goes as Walsh does.

I do think he needs help with the mental side of his game. He tries to do too much and often calls for the ball in bad positions resulting in bad possessions. His endeavour and intent however should never be in question IMO.

I think someone made the point he hasn’t had a full pre season since 2021 - has he been mismanaged? - so hopefully he can get that in 2024/25, and with a few tweaks, he can be the player we all think he can be.

People have short memories re Walsh. He is curtailed by injury, thats obvious, even though he is out there. We saw from the bye onwards last year how good he was, and was player of the finals series last year too.

We need to get the back issues sorted out with him, that is the issue. Guy is an out and out gun when he is fully right.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Best 18 Needs: Reliable key defender, dynamic forward.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thoughts?

A reliable key defender sounds great and all but we have only given up 100 or more points 5 times this year and 2 of those times it was bang on 100.

Imo our back half has performed admirably and although a key back sounds delicious, we really need a more dynamic centre group. You named Cripps, Walsh, Hewett and Kennedy there and we have seen time and time again that we can get seriously carved up. We need to change this dynamic in 2025 otherwise it will only become worse with all 4 of them adding another year and no chance they are faster.

2 mids, 1 half forward who can play on ball, a small that is dangerous and a key back. All would be nice. But if we don’t recruit a few mids that can change our dynamic, I don’t know if a key back fixes the problem.

But that’s just my thoughts though

 

[Blue1980]

And where are you going to find them? Are they on our list? Or do you have a trade target we should be trading for????

Martin has played 2 AFL games this year. May as well try and get someone who has some upside, who can get on the field. We have carried too many of these guys for too long, so when we have a normal run of injuries its like a crisis as we always have 5 out anyway.

 

[Blue1980]

True. But he has found his place and if he played tonight we win.

Williams will be great forward either in finals or next year.

We need an influx of players under 23 who can play multiple positions.

Williams football ability isn't an issue. When he has played he has been generally good value for us (aside from our failed experiment to make him into a midfielder back in 2021). He had a couple of poor games in defence after injury this year, then went on to provide good value for us up forward.

The issue with him is he is another injury prone player, who isn't available most of the time, that is the money drain.

 

[Wickzki]

A reliable key defender sounds great and all but we have only given up 100 or more points 5 times this year and 2 of those times it was bang on 100.

Imo our back half has performed admirably and although a key back sounds delicious, we really need a more dynamic centre group. You named Cripps, Walsh, Hewett and Kennedy there and we have seen time and time again that we can get seriously carved up. We need to change this dynamic in 2025 otherwise it will only become worse with all 4 of them adding another year and no chance they are faster.

2 mids, 1 half forward who can play on ball, a small that is dangerous and a key back. All would be nice. But if we don’t recruit a few mids that can change our dynamic, I don’t know if a key back fixes the problem.

But that’s just my thoughts though

I tend to agree but I think that's asking for a lot given our salary structures.

I don't know if our list management team have the cajones to make that many changes.

It sure would be nice though to see them make some brave decisions and go for it.

 

[Blue By Blood]

Is anyone else concerned that Weitering and Newman aside that none of our defenders have a natural defensive mindset or IQ?

• Boyd is a beautiful kick most of the time but is prone to panic and get shaky with pressure. Questionable decision making. Think he would be more than handy up forward.
• Saad loses his attacking flair and run and carry when he tries too hard to lockdown his opponent. I love it when he run and carries and slices his way down field but it’s a rare sight.
• Kemp flies for marks and over commits when he should spoil. Goes to ground and slips over a lot. Prone to the fumbles. Suggests to me he’s more a natural forward. But the fact he should be a forward aside, he’s being thrown to the wolves with height mismatches each week.

This is all compounded when the messaging to this group is obviously to be more defensive and tighten up. This seems to confuse this bunch and forces them to hesitate and subsequently make shocking decisions ball in hand rather than making plays based on instinct. It feels like such a makeshift backline and it doesn’t fill me with confidence. Obviously we all know that we need a 2nd KPD to help Weitering and give us more height to defend the oppositions 2nd key forward (or resting ruck). That may free up the others into better matchups.

I’m concerned that our defenders aren’t really defenders though. They’re potentially half forwards, third tall forwards and tweeners being shoehorned into a position they’re not naturally inclined to. That’s my opinion anyways.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Williams football ability isn't an issue. When he has played he has been generally good value for us (aside from our failed experiment to make him into a midfielder back in 2021). He had a couple of poor games in defence after injury this year, then went on to provide good value for us up forward.

The issue with him is he is another injury prone player, who isn't available most of the time, that is the money drain.

Of course. But he has 2 years to run on his contract so what do you do? That’s why players out of contract who are constantly injured will be removed this year.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I think with Doc and JSOS back next season you role the dice with Martin. Marchbank and Cuningham are sadly done.
We can’t replace Martin so even if he doesn’t play imo we lose nothing by keeping him on our list.

I think with Doc and Jsos back next year Martin is no longer required. Same goes for Cunners and Marchy.

More than anything we need fit players who are capable of being available for more than 75% of the year.

In the word of the great Angelo Papas from the movie Point Break…”forget about it kid, they are ghost.”

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Is anyone else concerned that Weitering and Newman aside that none of our defenders have a natural defensive mindset or IQ?

• Boyd is a beautiful kick most of the time but is prone to panic and get shaky with pressure. Questionable decision making. Think he would be more than handy up forward.
• Saad loses his attacking flair and run and carry when he tries too hard to lockdown his opponent. I love it when he run and carries and slices his way down field but it’s a rare sight.
• Kemp flies for marks and over commits when he should spoil. Goes to ground and slips over a lot. Prone to the fumbles. Suggests to me he’s more a natural forward. But the fact he should be a forward aside, he’s being thrown to the wolves with height mismatches each week.

This is all compounded when the messaging to this group is obviously to be more defensive and tighten up. This seems to confuse this bunch and forces them to hesitate and subsequently make shocking decisions ball in hand rather than making plays based on instinct. It feels like such a makeshift backline and it doesn’t fill me with confidence. Obviously we all know that we need a 2nd KPD to help Weitering and give us more height to defend the oppositions 2nd key forward (or resting ruck). That may free up the others into better matchups.

I’m concerned that our defenders aren’t really defenders though. They’re potentially half forwards, third tall forwards and tweeners being shoehorned into a position they’re not naturally inclined to. That’s my opinion anyways.

I for one am not concerned with our backline. It’s not allowing it into our backline as much is my concern.

Gave up 12 goals tonight. If we had of had TDK, Williams and Cerra not go down so early in the game, we would have restricted them to under 10 goals and would have won by plenty

 

[Wickzki]

Is anyone else concerned that Weitering and Newman aside that none of our defenders have a natural defensive mindset or IQ?

• Boyd is a beautiful kick most of the time but is prone to panic and get shaky with pressure. Questionable decision making. Think he would be more than handy up forward.
• Saad loses his attacking flair and run and carry when he tries too hard to lockdown his opponent. I love it when he run and carries and slices his way down field but it’s a rare sight.
• Kemp flies for marks and over commits when he should spoil. Goes to ground and slips over a lot. Prone to the fumbles. Suggests to me he’s more a natural forward. But the fact he should be a forward aside, he’s being thrown to the wolves with height mismatches each week.

This is all compounded when the messaging to this group is obviously to be more defensive and tighten up. This seems to confuse this bunch and forces them to hesitate and subsequently make shocking decisions ball in hand rather than making plays based on instinct. It feels like such a makeshift backline and it doesn’t fill me with confidence. Obviously we all know that we need a 2nd KPD to help Weitering and give us more height to defend the oppositions 2nd key forward (or resting ruck). That may free up the others into better matchups.

I’m concerned that our defenders aren’t really defenders though. They’re potentially half forwards, third tall forwards and tweeners being shoehorned into a position they’re not naturally inclined to. That’s my opinion anyways.

I can't like this post enough. I think you're underselling Cowan by not mentioning him and believe he'll be a dead set best 22 player from next year onward. I believe he has the mindset necessary to be a great defensive specialist but also has the ability to push into the midfield and be that ball user defensively.

If we had another KPD I think it would enable Kemp to play that riskier style and get away with it much more than what he does now. Similarly to how Nathan Murphy allowed the Filth to gamble more often defensively when he was in the side - think Howe and Moore.

It can't be overstated how much our midfielders sell our defenders into constant trouble. They remind me of Lemmings. As a consequence, the backline is constantly under the pump. Defense starts up the field.

 

[Blue By Blood]

I for one am not concerned with our backline. It’s not allowing it into our backline as much is my concern.

Gave up 12 goals tonight. If we had of had TDK, Williams and Cerra not go down so early in the game, we would have restricted them to under 10 goals and would have won by plenty

Absolutely limiting inside 50s and the midfield being more accountable plays a huge role, totally agree. But I still don’t think a few of our defenders are natural defenders and we’re trying to shoehorn them. Kemp, I don’t know what he is but I think he’d be a better forward. Same goes for Boyd. Gov is fine as a third tall defender even if his one-on-one body work is not fantastic but you can’t play two third tall types (Gov and Kemp) and keep conceding height mismatches.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Is anyone else concerned that Weitering and Newman aside that none of our defenders have a natural defensive mindset or IQ?

• Boyd is a beautiful kick most of the time but is prone to panic and get shaky with pressure. Questionable decision making. Think he would be more than handy up forward.
• Saad loses his attacking flair and run and carry when he tries too hard to lockdown his opponent. I love it when he run and carries and slices his way down field but it’s a rare sight.
• Kemp flies for marks and over commits when he should spoil. Goes to ground and slips over a lot. Prone to the fumbles. Suggests to me he’s more a natural forward. But the fact he should be a forward aside, he’s being thrown to the wolves with height mismatches each week.

This is all compounded when the messaging to this group is obviously to be more defensive and tighten up. This seems to confuse this bunch and forces them to hesitate and subsequently make shocking decisions ball in hand rather than making plays based on instinct. It feels like such a makeshift backline and it doesn’t fill me with confidence. Obviously we all know that we need a 2nd KPD to help Weitering and give us more height to defend the oppositions 2nd key forward (or resting ruck). That may free up the others into better matchups.

I’m concerned that our defenders aren’t really defenders though. They’re potentially half forwards, third tall forwards and tweeners being shoehorned into a position they’re not naturally inclined to. That’s my opinion anyways.

I have no issue with Saad, he is wonderful footballer. He saves multiple goals every game by his ability to read the play. The rest of your analysis is fair however.

Kemp is talented and on occasions can make you believe he can succeed in that second defender role, but I honestly believe he should be playing forward of centre.

Boyd has been bad for a while, even before the injury setback he was horrible against the Dogs, and again tonight he was terrible, so the criticism is fair.

Also Gov is not a defender, albeit he is very good in the interceptor role because of how well he reads the play but it comes at the price of him not defending an opponent.