Autopsy 2024 AFL Season Round 17 vs Sydney Swans

[pebblesofsand]

Battle could be closer to elite talent than what you end up getting for him.

We have a fair few players who are very young.
We would be hoping for some improvement?
Do you think that Windhager, Owens, Phillipou, Wanganeen-Milera, Henry are as good as they will ever be?

True - but Battle is not a mid. Not disparaging backmen but it is an easier position to play than the midfield especially in a very strong team based defence like ours.

Caminiti was forced down back for two games - no pre season spent training with the group just a couple of sessions at RSEA Park and was more than servicable.

For us, its an easier position to cover provided the return is good enough and that's why we are at Round 18 and we still don't know whether he stays or goes.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If we lose Battle , there's no upside.
There's a consolation.

 

[sauce_head]

Well, I completely disagree. I think the problem the Saints have had since 2009 is they have been way, way too slow to make decisions.

It started in 2011 when they should have initiated a Hawthorn style rebuild - but didn't. It continued all the way through the 2010s when they persisted with players on the list - Billings, Acres, Dunstan, Newnes, Lonie etc that should have been moved on much earlier while they had at least some trade currency.

They have gotten a little bit better in the last 3 or 4 years as they have clicked that list management is a game of continual improvement, not wait and hope. As much as there is a lot to dislike about Hawks and Cats - study their list managemnet over the past 20 years and you will see how it is done - tough decisions made in the interest of the greater good.

In business we use the terminology "fail fast" all the time. It is a principal that applies equally to sport. If you give a player 10 years at AFL level, they will improve. Almost have to despite themselves. The issue is what is the opportunity cost of holding on to a player through 5 or 6 years of mediocrity to eventually get a player that is still pretty average. The A graders, you see that in the first year or two.

Personally, I think the problem with our club is that it has not be quick enough or aggressive enough in pursuing best practice list managemnet.

Interesting post

 

[Fehring]

Have just watched the replay and have some thoughts.

• Yes, we've apparently moved the ball well from defence all year, but I thought we were a class above today. So many many smart short kicks and forward handballs to exit D50. We worked through their zone really well.
• Speaking of forward handballs, I thought we were creative and bold without selling our teammates into trouble. Again, best I've seen us look in that category.
• Again, as good as our defence has been, I thought we had a better structure to stop the fast break. We've often been opened up on the turnover, but not today.
• Our structure in front of the ball was also much better. When we had to kick quickly under pressure, we were usually manned up so as not to give away intercept marks. Streets ahead of any other game this year.
• Hunter Clark's clearance and coal face work was excellent. But he was fairly quiet in the last quarter and still had lower TOG than everyone except the subbed out and subbed in players.

We do have a weak midfield, but the real difference between this year and last year is that we didn't have the same depth to come in when we had all those injuries in the first half of the year (got rid of Billings, Gresh, Bytel, Coffield, Highmore and Mackenzie among others). Most of the players were back by about round 10, but we were then carrying a lot of underdone players. Now that we're settled and everyone in the 22 is match fit, we're playing as well as we did last year.

 

[StCicatriz]

If we lose Battle , there's no upside.
There's a consolation.

well said

 

[akaifu]

Have just watched the replay and have some thoughts.

• Yes, we've apparently moved the ball well from defence all year, but I thought we were a class above today. So many many smart short kicks and forward handballs to exit D50. We worked through their zone really well.
• Speaking of forward handballs, I thought we were creative and bold without selling our teammates into trouble. Again, best I've seen us look in that category.
• Again, as good as our defence has been, I thought we had a better structure to stop the fast break. We've often been opened up on the turnover, but not today.
• Our structure in front of the ball was also much better. When we had to kick quickly under pressure, we were usually manned up so as not to give away intercept marks. Streets ahead of any other game this year.
• Hunter Clark's clearance and coal face work was excellent. But he was fairly quiet in the last quarter and still had lower TOG than everyone except the subbed out and subbed in players.

We do have a weak midfield, but the real difference between this year and last year is that we didn't have the same depth to come in when we had all those injuries in the first half of the year (got rid of Billings, Gresh, Bytel, Coffield, Highmore and Mackenzie among others). Most of the players were back by about round 10, but we were then carrying a lot of underdone players. Now that we're settled and everyone in the 22 is match fit, we're playing as well as we did last year.

The main difference was that we were hitting targets. A lot of the handball chains that resulted in scores, normally someone would stuff up the chain with a missed handball and we'd turn it over or it'd become a stoppage

 

[Teflon]

If Philipou had played like that every game, we probably wouldn't be 6-12 ( based on actual scores ).

Yes and if my aunty….
Facts are he hasn’t it’s 1 game
We need more elite talent
I don’t think Battle is elite - v good but coverable longer term is my view

 

[Teflon]

well said

Im ok to lose Battle…win the war…

 

[austinnn]

The main difference was that we were hitting targets. A lot of the handball chains that resulted in scores, normally someone would stuff up the chain with a missed handball and we'd turn it over or it'd become a stoppage

Exactly. The other (related) difference is Sydney didn't apply a lot of pressure when we were in possession. I don't know if that's usually the case in their games, having not watched much of them, but they were more focused on their own game. Once we won the ball, they were slow to attack us for it.

 

[gringo2011]

Point is right now 6-12 is diabolical
To jump to 4 we need elite talent
You won’t get that from 1 top pick at a time
You want more got to give to get
You won’t get FAs .. LDU ain’t coming so we can stop dreaming
And looking for gold in mid season or late draft is. Lottery
Don’t think we have the choice - we aren’t destination

We won't have midfield and small forward carnage next year hopefully. The kids are another year developed etc. I think our list is better than where we currently sit. Bringing in kids is where we get good players from but selling your foot to buy new shoes isn't a plan.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yes and if my aunty….
Facts are he hasn’t it’s 1 game
We need more elite talent
I don’t think Battle is elite - v good but coverable longer term is my view

Oh yeah i forgot that old man Phillipou is 19 years old, and at that extreme age , unlikely to become better and more consistent.
I forgot that AFL players come in cans and you open them when you draft them and they come out the way they will remain for their career.

We need more elite talent raaark.... we need more elite talent ..... raaark.... polly wanna cracka?

Which elite talent are you going to draft, or are you just dreaming about someone?

 

[crasha301]

Exchange Heeney for Ben long

22

Ben Long

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

6.2

2star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

166.8

3star

D

12.8

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

129.0

2star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.2

5star

MG

223.0

4star

. No one would bat an eye lid about the suspension.

Interesting situation.

Personally, I think it was an accident and should get away with a fine.

I've seen a lot worse this year not even get fines so it's a real chook raffle.

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Exchange Heeney for Ben long. No one would bat an eye lid about the suspension.

Interesting situation.

Personally, I think it was an accident and should get away with a fine.

I've seen a lot worse this year not even get fines so it's a real chook raffle.

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Ben would have got 3 weeks.

 

[sauce_head]

Like when Ryder got suspended for standing still

 

[jwint43]

Very late to this, but this result has been coming for a while. We have dropped so many close ones and are nowhere near as bad our as ladder position.

The thing I loved the most is Sydney had two absolute momentum deflating goals right after Higgin's snap which could have killed us off, but we kept coming and didn't give up.

The crowd was fantastic aswell, you could really hear them on the TV, and 30k is a good crowd considering where we are on the ladder.

It's funny how different your outlook is on certain players when you have a win. I know we've been down on a few this year, but I think if we had won a few close ones alot of players seasons look very different. Pou in the middle for the rest of the year please!

 

[jwint43]

Its laughable for anyone to say we’re tanking considering we’ve almost claimed Brisbane & Port in recent weeks to go with beating the Suns & Swans.

Those within the club are clearly going flat out to win.

It does help I guess that Adelaide are the only club that we’re jockeying positions with… can’t see us catching Hawthorn, WB, etc above us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed. We've lost 6 games by 2 goals or less... win half of those and we're right in the hunt with a way harder draw than last year.

 

[jwint43]

Phillipou was the man yesterday. Played the role we've been missing since Crouch went down. Steele looked free of burden with him taking control too. Hunter Clark and Windy before injury both played okay games but it was really Steele and Pou doing the bulk work. Reminded me of when Cripps looked broken by playing a lone hand for Carlton until they grabbed him a support cast.

Sinclair is still somehow underrated outside St Kilda, he's an elite level player. Reminds me of Rory Laird where no-one noticed him for years and he still doesn't get credit for his game. He must average close to 30 quality possessions a week over his whole career but a lot still don't know who he is.

Steele's second half was incredible. He was having an average game up until halftime but he responded and led from the front. He's obviously never going to kick awesome goals like Cripps does but the way he lifted in the second half has to be commended.

 

[gringo2011]

Steele's second half was incredible. He was having an average game up until halftime but he responded and led from the front. He's obviously never going to kick awesome goals like Cripps does but the way he lifted in the second half has to be commended.

I meant more that it was like when Cripps was playing a lone hand in Carlton's midfield. He looked injured and depressed. Carlton went out and drafted Walsh and picked up Cerra, Hewett and Kennedy for him to get some support.

 

[SG34]

Like when Ryder got suspended for standing still

What a gem we lost there. Should still be playing for mine. Didn’t wanna leave late into his last season. Suspect he was given a nudge. Dunno. But alas..that bird has flown now.

 

[Ads734]

Cannot belive Pou didn't poll let alone crack the three.

 

[Leap of Faith]

Cannot belive Pou didn't poll let alone crack the three.

Just backs up what other posters are saying about the Brownlow, AA and other awards being skewed or meaningless.
3 Brownlow votes to Gulden. 2 to Steele, 1 to Heeney. Gulden didn’t get a vote in the coaches votes. Heeney got 3 coaches votes, Steele got 1. Pou got 10.

 

[jumperfan]

Cannot belive Pou didn't poll let alone crack the three.

St Kilda tax in full effect

 

[The Punter]

In the last two St Kilda v Sydney games at Marvel, the winning team has polled 2 out of a possible 12 votes.

 

[BrutThough]

Just backs up what other posters are saying about the Brownlow, AA and other awards being skewed or meaningless.
3 Brownlow votes to Gulden. 2 to Steele, 1 to Heeney. Gulden didn’t get a vote in the coaches votes. Heeney got 3 coaches votes, Steele got 1. Pou got 10.

Funny that Gulden got more Brownlow votes (3) than disposals in the last quarter when the game was there to be won (0).

 

[austinnn]

In the last two St Kilda v Sydney games at Marvel, the winning team has polled 2 out of a possible 12 votes.

And gained an 8 out of possible 8 premiership points, more importantly!

*
*

For all the good it did us :-(

Well anyway I get the point about our boys not being recognised by the umps.