List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[bradfisher14]

Rubbish.. if we had a competent ruck in 2022 we play finals, fact.

Yeah, but you don't have to pay more than 700k a year for a competent ruck.

 

[I bleed Blue]

2 firsts for TDK? You guys and gals are dreaming!!!

How would you feel if Carlton paid two firsts for a (very promising) young ruck who was yet to really make it? You'd lose your collective sh*t!

The guy is an athletic specimen and has a leap that could inspire poetry books. BUT....

So far all we've seen is (very small) pockets of dominance, a propensity to fly for unrealistic marks and not much forward craft for a guy that is supposed to be the prototype ruck-fwd.

Now, I am NOT saying he is no good. And I get that he is still young-ish and will get better. And that big guys peak later and all that jazz.

But two firsts?!?! That is reserved for proven stars and rolled-gold young prospects.

Throwing 8 years or $750K a year at a player like TDK is absolute list management madness. He MIGHT end up being one of the game's best ruckmen. It's definitely possible. And you know what, IF that happens, he is probably worth that big contract and big $. If not, you've burnt a big hole in your cap on potential.

I know Sydney are pretty damn good at this talent spotting, trading and list management caper, but a word of warning.... At the end of the year, TDK will be one year younger than Grundy was when he signed his monster 7-year contract at Collingwood. At that stage Grundy was a 2 x AA and had finished top 10 in the Brownlow two years in a row. Some Carlton supporters might have even baulked at paying two firsts for Grundy at that point. And I can't imagine TDK being anywhere as proven a prospect at the same age. AND even if TDK ends up as good as Grundy (who was probably the best young ruckman in a decade at that point), look at how that turned out for Collingwood!

TL;DR - We wouldn't pay 2 firsts for TDK. And another club would be mad to pay that. I would love to be wrong on this, but if we get a monster offer for TDK, we should take it.

I love TDK but I've always believed you don't overpay for ruckman.

You want someone who is serviceable, but they aren't your match winners. Don't pay them match winning salarys and don't give up match winning picks.

TDK has alot of X factor though, and has huge potential. For us he will mainly be a ruckman though. He might get more time forward with Sydney.

As much as I think he is probably only worth 1 first. If a club comes offering 8 years and $6million. They are showing their hand how high they rate that player, and need to pay up in a trade representing that value.

2 first would be on the table if we are talking that contract dollars and length.

If that's on offer we have to take it.

 

[CJMB]

And Cameron is on peanuts..

What’s peanuts though?

After the bye last season Cameron extended for 3 years. He’s not going to be on F-off money, but he’s hardly going to be on a rookie contract if he’s playing each week and they’re giving him 3 years.

We extended TDK (also for 3) back at the end of 2020, at which point he’d only played 9 games, so probably not a huge deal by any means, and quite possibly less than what Cameron’s on.

That being said, I think we should be scouring the market for a value ruck pick, especially if the club thinks Yom might be on the move.
Not necessarily AA potential but a decent tap, mobile, have some physical presence, a capable forward and pretty resilient/durable… and ideally quite a bit better than Cameron who I just don’t really rate.

 

[Pablito]

Right now he's basically Shaun Hampson

Shaun Hampson

Age

36

Ht

201cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.0

2star

K

3.4

1star

HB

4.6

3star

CL

1.3

3star

HO

20.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

6.0

2star

K

3.6

2star

HB

2.4

3star

HO

8.8

5star

.

But he has the potential to be Nic Nat.

Would I sell Hampson for a first rounder? Yep

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

A lot will also be determined by Mirkov & Harry Lemmey and how their development tracks this season. If by seasons end there is not a huge gap between TDK and either of these 2 then it changes the equation.

 

[Jeremias]

TDK only played that many games because Pitt was injured. Didn't play the last 2. He is currently being massively over hyped because he takes the odd hanger

Not sure about that. TDK played when Pittonet was fit so I'd say the very clear intention was to play them in tandem.

Edit - Maybe a recent comparable is Ladhams who has TDK covered statistically at the same age who went for a 4 pick upgrade from 16 -12 and a future 3rd rounder

What was the contract on offer for Ladhams?

And I dare say TDK doesn't have the extra-curricular interests Ladhams does.

Rubbish.. if we had a competent ruck in 2022 we play finals, fact.

You really need to learn the difference between fact and opinion.

There's nothing factual about this statement.

 

[TENACIOUS]

The media valuation of TDK suggests 2 first rounders. Saw one this morning saying he could get 1 million a year which is ludicrous. I think it was Gerard Healy and he said we need to do whatever it takes to keep him. I for one would be pretty pissed off if we entertained a figure like that. I'd happily take a top 10 pick, and celebrate the cap relief and a tidy profit on the Pick 30 we got him for.

His marking is impressive and his potential is great. We are beyond paying top dollar for potential now. Results or GTFO. If he turns into Max Gawn this year, then let's go. Beyond that, let go.

Cornes, is the one that has said all along "that TDK is worth $1m a year"...

The only way I can see Sydney giving TDK an 8x year deal, is to lessen the $$$ by adding Job security...
While going to a team that is actually in their premiership window, with a steady stream of good players coming through their academy...

You'd imagine, 8x years at $500-$600k would likely make TDK bite...

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Sydney are looking for a star who can take over from Buddy as the face of footy in Sydney.. They are more likely to throw big $ at someone like Aaron Naughton

33

Aaron Naughton

Age

24

Ht

196cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

4.9

5star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

6.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

2.3

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

0.8

1star

G

0.5

4star

D

12.8

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.0

1star

than TDK

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Cornes, is the one that has said all along "that TDK is worth $1m a year"...

The only way I can see Sydney giving TDK an 8x year deal, is to lessen the $$$ by adding Job security...
While going to a team that is actually in their premiership window, with a steady stream of good players coming through their academy...

You'd imagine, 8x years at $500-$600k would likely make TDK bite...

Nah, moving to Sydney earns you that 800k. Any half decent tall wouldn't lock themselves into a career deal at 500-600k.

 

[bigblueboy]

Plenty can happen between now and September … like real games.
I’m expecting TDK will show a little improvement this year but that Pittonet will do the majority of ruck work.
At year’s end the offers will be much lower than the media predictions preseason and he’ll stay on a reasonable contract which gets him to free agency.

 

[Revenant1965]

All this TDK talk... who is smiling now....

Show me the money...

 

[thylacine60]

This is a classic media beat up because there is no other high profile player out of contract at the end of the year.. The cricket and tennis were underwhelming, off season has had few contraversies so now the footy journos and SEN are trying to ensure that their clicks remain high enough by luring in Carlton fans, because they know there are heaps of us and we will always bite.

TDK has rightfully put off contract talks, and so would have Carlton.. We couldn't possibly pay him what he thinks he is worth until we see some real progress in his development as a ruckman and TDK couldnt possibly take the offer that we would be prepared to put in front of him currently because he has enough belief in his ability to know that he can get more after he puts in a good year.. Its the right move by both club and player.. However the other clubs are also going to see what Tom does this year, and if he isnt an established best 22 player no one is paying him more than $500k a season regardless of his 'potential' so i think he ends up staying regardless its just a matter of what he gets paid..

The only outlier here is if he shows real signs of being a capable key forward, if this happens and we have Harry & Charlie it may just be a better move for both player and club that he finds a new home, but I think he will show signs of being a decent ruck that can pinch forward and we will sign him for something well below what the media are throwing out atm.

cool story

 

[thylacine60]

He's definitely not a fringe ruck. I'd put him in the 'unfulfilled potential with improvements in consistency required' basket

we're gonna need a bigger basket.........

 

[Accidental genius]

It's interesting. Sometimes he's so assured and others he seems like a new born giraffe.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yeah, if it all clicks for him he’ll be a superstar of the comp.

 

[Jimmae]

Not a chance TDK is seeing that kind of offer to play in a traditional ruck role, nor do I think the number is that high. And I agree, you don't overpay for players who just tap, bullock and jog to position.

There are however are rucks in the league who can do a hell of a lot more than that, and they seem to be massively undervalued, something I've noted for years now. Collingwood just proved that last off-season, and Melbourne are now turning heads with a completely different forward structure built around McDonald, Brown, and a couple of rucks with elite athleticism.

TDK could be one of those players, just not through his outright endurance base. I think you can drop him into a forward line with a bit more ground level pressure than ours has and he'd basically play the game a bit like how Hawkins does for Geelong. This would be a big part of the reason why the Swans and Cats are rumoured to be circling him.

We can use him that way too, we just need to:

A) Get a way better primary ruck than Pittonet, one that can actually spread from the contest

B) Find a more mobile role for Charlie

But it still relies on TDK finding a new level of form, and our coaches finding a clue.

For the same reason you don't take a Ferrari off roading.

If he copped an injury in a ruck contest, I'd be fuming. Let the JSos's of the team do that work.

He's not getting leapt into at general stoppages, which is what I'm referring to. When we are missing a little in the legs through the midfield of stages of quarters and Jack is gassed, we can use him to bring in another mid and just physically beat up the opposition midfield.

 

[Jatz]

He's not getting leapt into at general stoppages, which is what I'm referring to. When we are missing a little in the legs through the midfield of stages of quarters and Jack is gassed, we can use him to bring in another mid and just physically beat up the opposition midfield.

Agreed but he's still up in the air competing against someone that's likely to be bigger/more experienced. It only takes him landing on the other ruckman's foot for instance and we all of a sudden miss him for weeks with ankle issues.

I get what you're saying but he's not the player I'd use to do it.

 

[Jimmae]

Agreed but he's still up in the air competing against someone that's likely to be bigger/more experienced. It only takes him landing on the other ruckman's foot for instance and we all of a sudden miss him for weeks with ankle issues.

I get what you're saying but he's not the player I'd use to do it.

I thought rucks weren't allowed to jump at ruck contests aside from the centre bounce?

 

[Stamos]

Doc 2 year extension

 

[skadoosh]

Docherty commits until end of 2025

Inspirational Blue signs on for two more years.

www.carltonfc.com.au

CARLTON is thrilled to announce the inspirational Sam Docherty

15

Sam Docherty

Age

31

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.3

5star

K

15.1

5star

HB

7.2

4star

M

6.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

CL

1.1

3star

D

22.6

5star

K

16.0

5star

HB

6.6

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

0.6

1star

CL

0.4

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.4

4star

CL

0.6

3star

has signed a new two-year contract extension with the Club.

 

[Juddrockz]

Docherty commits until end of 2025

Inspirational Blue signs on for two more years.

www.carltonfc.com.au

No more thrilled for Doc than the Blues faithful with the 2 years!! Inspirational

 

[DangerousD]

If TDK leaves us, then a team like the Swans, that ‘pinch’ quality players, don’t lose other quality player in these deals. We will accept draft picks and maybe a depth player who they can afford to give away or don’t think is part of their long term plans. Let’s stop with the Guilden, etc. trade dream requests.

I feel this story is BS, who have the swans targeted that has required them to give up anything?

Buddy was a FA
Tippet was PSD
Ladhams was not much
MCartin was a rookie

Where is the Sean’s history of going for something similar?

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

S.Mumford (GEE) on a 4year deal Approx $300K for draft pick #28

J.Kennedy (HAW) on a 3year deal for draft pick #39

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Watch the 'he's worth more to us than he is to them' type posts start to proliferate once TDK's contract situation starts to heat up.

 

[thegreatbeast]

S.Mumford (GEE) on a 4year deal Approx $300K for draft pick #28

J.Kennedy (HAW) on a 3year deal for draft pick #39

They were both players on the fringe of their respective sides at that time.

 

[jooce8891]

young signs until 2026