List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Blue1980]

Strange isn't it, that core Pies side finished 17th, 18 months ago

Players or system?

Pies made finals 3 years prior to 2021. It was an outlier for them.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Firstly, Cripps is currently laboring, last year he kicked 20 goals and won a Brownlow and was being talked up as one of the best leaders in the competition for half the year.

Secondly, we could address it within 1-2 off seasons quite easily imo with genuinely realistic and affordable options via trade/FA/draft.

You're talking about last year though. I know he has great games, I'm not questioning that.

And you honestly think we can change our list from the slow poor kicking side we are in 2023 to a list that's faster with much better skills like Collingwood in 1 or 2 off seasons hey? Where are all the draft picks and salary cap space coming from to do that and to get all these better players?

I see what you're suggesting and I know Cripps is well loved. I just don't think we have a premiership in our making with him as captain.

 

[Korn]

Cripps cannot be a midfielder forever. At 194cm he is slowing down. His ground level contest is pretty bad so far this season.

 

[Blue1980]

12 over 30 last year didn't seem too problematic

It isn’t a problem, until it is.

They aren’t all going to play forever.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You're talking about last year though. I know he has great games, I'm not questioning that.

And you honestly think we can change our list from the slow poor kicking side we are in 2023 to a list that's faster with much better skills like Collingwood in 1 or 2 off seasons hey? Where are all the draft picks and salary cap space coming from to do that and to get all these better players?

I see what you're suggesting and I know Cripps is well loved. I just don't think we have a premiership in our making with him as captain.

We don't need to be faster and more skilled than the Colliwobbles, we just need to be fast enough and skilled enough to maximise our greatest assets. Which are Harry, Charlie and Walsh imo. Assets that Collingwood do not possess.

I too understand what you're saying and if Austin goes down that path then good luck to him, I don't think he's had enough time to address the issues yet though and still has plenty of time to restructure the list without going down the Nuclear path.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

We don't need to be faster and more skilled than the Colliwobbles, we just need to be fast enough and skilled enough to maximise our greatest assets. Which are Harry, Charlie and Walsh imo. Assets that Collingwood do not possess.

I too understand what you're saying and if Austin goes down that path then good luck to him, I don't think he's had enough time to address the issues yet though and still has plenty of time to restructure the list without going down the Nuclear path.

Not sure it's nuclear to remove one player who in 2 or 3 years time (if not already) will be in struggle town, but ok.

 

[The Bighouse]

Heard that, very interesting
Made me want to cry when he spoke about how Liam Jones was tracking.

Was it that LJ is the most impactful player on a club’s fortunes in his 1st year (CD)?
WBD have changed from the easiest to score against to the hardest?

 

[marcmurphy3]

I find the attitude towards Cripps a bit disrespectful. Yes several of his performances have been poor this year but it is not his fault we suck.

He has literally carried us for most his career. At the end of last year when we were falling apart he was doing everything to drag us over the line . BOG in our shocker against Adelaide. In round 23 against the pies BOG again in one of the best captains performances you will see. That after being superman during our hot start to the season. After what he has been through in his career it must have been gut wrenching to miss finals. He could not have done any more.

For those who want him replaced as captain, who replaces him? A 23 year old Walsh? Weitering who has been garbage? Docherty? He is 30 and his form was pretty poor as captain.

Nobody really knows what happens within the club but somehow the narrative has spread that he is a poor leader who can only lead by example. I'm not saying he's perfect but I think that's selling him short.

He's one I am confident will turn his form around. To do so though he will also need the support of his teamates. We shouldn't be so quick to turn on one of the only guys at our club who can hold his head high over the last 10 years. I say we back him in.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I find the attitude towards Cripps a bit disrespectful. Yes several of his performances have been poor this year but it is not his fault we suck.

He has literally carried us for most his career. At the end of last year when we were falling apart he was doing everything to drag us over the line . BOG in our shocker against Adelaide. In round 23 against the pies BOG again in one of the best captains performances you will see. That after being superman during our hot start to the season. After what he has been through in his career it must have been gut wrenching to miss finals. He could not have done any more.

For those who want him replaced as captain, who replaces him? A 23 year old Walsh? Weitering who has been garbage? Docherty? He is 30 and his form was pretty poor as captain.

Nobody really knows what happens within the club but somehow the narrative has spread that he is a poor leader who can only lead by example. I'm not saying he's perfect but I think that's selling him short.

He's one I am confident will turn his form around. To do so though he will also need the support of his teamates. We shouldn't be so quick to turn on one of the only guys at our club who can hold his head high over the last 10 years. I say we back him in.

It doesn't go unnoticed that Cripps was poor in Teague's 2nd full season and now poor in Voss' 2nd season. That's 2 years with Brownlow year in between. The difference between his best and worse is huge and it's not just an anomaly.

If he is injured, he shouldn't be playing.

What we are seeing is that when the coach tries to add a layer to the game plan, Cripps and his team fall to pieces and can't grasp it.

Is it the game plan or the players?

 

[Jeremias]

Not sure it's nuclear to remove one player who in 2 or 3 years time (if not already) will be in struggle town, but ok.

It is absolutely nuclear to remove our captain.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Hearing from a good source, Pittonet signed for another 4 years.

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

Crazy for a ruck who can't jump can't kick can't mark 4 years must of signed four years for peanuts ..

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You're talking about last year though. I know he has great games, I'm not questioning that.

And you honestly think we can change our list from the slow poor kicking side we are in 2023 to a list that's faster with much better skills like Collingwood in 1 or 2 off seasons hey? Where are all the draft picks and salary cap space coming from to do that and to get all these better players?

I see what you're suggesting and I know Cripps is well loved. I just don't think we have a premiership in our making with him as captain.

And in terms of how easy I think it would be to get our list sorted within 1-2 years. Obviously it's all dependent on who is actually available and willing but lets just say hypothetically they are available or someone interchangable for them who plays the same role and has the same traits.

Really all are realistic and affordable targets.



2023

Trade TDK, Kennedy, Dow, Fisher, Gov. Use the picks to try packaging a deal to get us 2 top 10 selections using our 2023,2024 picks + whatever the player trades net us.
Gold Coast will 100% be trading their first as they simply need points to match on their 3 academy guns this year. Their pick would be in my sights.

Draft
Watson - Best player in the draft arguably. ELITE speed, evasive, very good overhead mark. Dual sided, can kick 50+ on set shots, crafty and damaging ball user and attacks the game at full speed similar to Tom Papley. Would be pick 1 if he was 10cm taller.
Wilson - Power runner, completely dual sided and extremely penetrative player. Huge metres gained and not afraid to use his leg speed to burn off his opponents. Very damaging kick of the football and creates opportunities through his run.
Patton - Elite intercepting and running mid sized half back. Tom Stewart style of player. Significant leadership on field. Captain material wherever he ends up.

Trade/FA

Gresham or Cumberland (FA/trade with whats left)
Florent (2nd Rounder from trades)

Williams Weitering Saad
Docherty Young Florent
Acres Cripps Hollands
Durdin Mckay Gresham/Cumberland
Motlop Curnow Watson
Pitto Walsh Cerra

Hewett Wilson Cottrell Boyd


2024

Draft
Lucas Camporeale - Hard running Wingman/Half back.
Ben Camporeale - Hard running Half back
Probably another kid or two but I'm not going to pretend to know which kid will be where in that draft in the 2nd round a year out.

Trade/FA
Liam Baker (2025 First)

Team ends up something like:

Williams Weitering Saad
Florent Young Patton/Cowan
Wilson Cripps Hollands
Durdin Mckay Gresham/Cumberland
Motlop Curnow Watson
Pitto Walsh Cerra

Docherty Boyd Baker Camporeale

Basically 7 changes to our 22.

2 more years into Motlop and Durdin with the addition of Watson and a Gresham/Cumberland. That Forward line would be the stuff of nightmares for oppositions.
Florent, Wilson, Patton, Baker and Camporeale give us speed and kicking skills across the park and are all completely dual sided, flexible players. Can all play multiple positions which is a massive flaw in our list. Gresham, Baker, Florent and Wilson can all play midfield too as that zippier type we're crying out for.

Im pretty confident a team like that could compete with any across the league and would match others hard running and transition offence/defence pretty quickly.

None of that would require us to blow up the list or trade our Captain. Just regulation list changes that would be net positives. Players like Florent and Kennedy are probably about the same quality but a trade of the two would overall benefit us due to their different skillsets. Kennedy is a surplus, Florent would provide traits we lack.

 

[HarryFlashman]

No more recycled players (unless they are 23 or under) We need to hit draft again hard, and cash in on Silvagni, Dow, Fisher TDK etc And try bring in at least 5-6 kids in this year's draft which will have sliders and plenty of depth.

Tom De Koning is not going to get us a First Round Pick IMO. A pick in the 20s the most likely (projected) outcome

We need more pace and players with elite endurance and kicking skills into our midfield.

I would also consider putting Bam Bam on the trade table and see if we got a good offer/pick for him.

There is not enough organic growth or talent on this list for us to challenge for a flag.

The good news is this a very good year to have an off kilter season, another top 10 draft pick and more young talent accumulation.

We currently have too many mids/wing and flanker types who butcher the ball and lack pace, which hurts us a lot.
We need to use the draft to fix that area

Think its time for us to get realistic and face the likely scenario that our players (esp our midfield) are just not as good or great as we all thought/hoped.

This is hilarious - let’s trade the world & bringing in a bunch of kids but u are 100% against bringing Dow in (regardless of his amazing form) for a few games to see if has improved & can help us at absolutely Zero cost to the club.
With your selection integrity I’m sure all the kids will just shine

 

[Michael Jezz]

I've liked all of Austins moves and last year I was more than content with his decisions. I just don't think he's really gone out on a whim since he arrived and taken any big risks. I'd like us to trade some of our own this year for more bites at the draft and look at poaching some under contract players if possible.

Either way I'm a very big fan of Austin and the team, I think they've been very solid in their tenure, I'd just like us to get a bit more creative to try and get some real high end quality kids/players end of year.

Austin = Durdin, Carrol, Motlop
I wouldn't say he has hit out of the park

 

[DangerousD]

What if it's at 250k?

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Still crazy because you could just pay him that much over 2, do you think he would get paid or offered more at another club?

 

[DangerousD]

Florent (2nd Rounder from trades)

I like Florent, but compared to Hewett and Kennedy, is he quick enough to play a different role? Isn’t he one paced or am I off the mark? Is he out of contract? If yes, he’d be a great addition.

Trade TDK, Kennedy, Dow, Fisher, Gov. Use the picks to try packaging a deal to get us 2 top 10 selections using our 2023,2024 picks + whatever the player trades net us.
Gold Coast will 100% be trading their first as they simply need points to match on their 3 academy guns this year. Their pick would be in my sights.

I don’t disagree with trading players to bring in picks but I wouldn’t want us to be desperate to bundle them together, assuming we have our own top 10 pick, we could trade our future pick which would get us pick 15 or so, TDK maybe Geelongs 1st pick at 16.

Kennedy, Dow, Fisher and Gov, I’d be open moving on the last three, not sure about Kennedy but also don’t think the combination of Dow, Fosher and Gov will get us anywhere near the first round, maybe a 4th and two 3rds if we are lucky, which we could package to maybe get a 2nd round pick.

Just my view that we need more picks in the draft in the top 30 than a smaller amount in the top 10

 

[DangerousD]

Austin = Durdin, Carrol, Motlop
I wouldn't say he has hit out of the park

2 out of 3 are best 22 and are in their 2nd and 3rd season and they are two second round picks, pretty solid outcome if you ask me.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

This is hilarious - let’s trade the world & bringing in a bunch of kids but u are 100% against bringing Dow in (regardless of his amazing form) for a few games to see if has improved & can help us at absolutely Zero cost to the club.
With your selection integrity I’m sure all the kids will just shine

Dow is not AFL standard mate.
Had more than enough chances at AFL level.
Another Kane Lucas.
Sometimes you have to cut your losses.

Selection Intwgrity is actually about selecting and playing players who have a future at the club (which Dow doesn't)

 

[HereComesJuddy]

It is absolutely nuclear to remove our captain.

Just like it was so nuclear when Ryan Griffen left the dogs at the end of 2014 and they won a premiership 2 years later.

 

[katmanblue]

A REMINDER FOR THE PINECONES



This bloke is not our problem.







As highlighted perfectly by Buckley and Brown - Tom Mitchell is there to play as an inside extractor, not to run. We don't have runners around Cripps, we have plodders. We have about 4 good runners in the whole team. 3/4 of Collingwoods entire team are fast, powerful runners.

Now we need to see a video of every time Cripps' opponent has run straight past him and become part of the scoring chain for the opposition. It'd be 25 minutes long

Edit: wouldn't be a problem if it was only him. Our issue is that the same could be said of Kennedy, Hewett, Ed, Newman and I've probably forgotten a couple. Can't cover for all of them.

It's why our defensive zone is more of a suggestion than a defensive system.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I like Florent, but compared to Hewett and Kennedy, is he quick enough to play a different role? Isn’t he one paced or am I off the mark? Is he out of contract? If yes, he’d be a great addition.


I don’t disagree with trading players to bring in picks but I wouldn’t want us to be desperate to bundle them together, assuming we have our own top 10 pick, we could trade our future pick which would get us pick 15 or so, TDK maybe Geelongs 1st pick at 16.

Kennedy, Dow, Fisher and Gov, I’d be open moving on the last three, not sure about Kennedy but also don’t think the combination of Dow, Fosher and Gov will get us anywhere near the first round, maybe a 4th and two 3rds if we are lucky, which we could package to maybe get a 2nd round pick.

Just my view that we need more picks in the draft in the top 30 than a smaller amount in the top 10

Florent is a fast and powerful runner, not Saad levels of speed but he has pace to burn and is a very quick decision maker. Terrible video but given theres not a lot of Ollie Florent highlights going up on youtube probs the best video for showcasing that.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Now we need to see a video of every time Crippd' oppi has run straight past him and become part of the scoring chain for the opposition. It'd be 25 minutes long

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

As I mentioned with Dusty, if one of your biggest weapons struggles to run then you need to build around and address that with runners. Not trade out your Brownlow winning Captain because the team is underperforming and incapable of executing basic kicks.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Pies made finals 3 years prior to 2021. It was an outlier for them.

yet at the time no one seen their resurgence coming.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I don’t get this Cripps talk, he isn’t worth much in a trade anymore. No bottom side is going to chase someone who will be 29 and apparently a crap leader who can’t run and I can’t think of a premiership contender who actually needs that type of player let alone has the cap space to fit him in

 

[Christou2Kouta]

Four years for Pittonet is insane. Were there really that many other clubs desperate to sign him?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com