List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

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THE_GUN said:
If Charlie Curnow's Knee is bad enough for him to miss significant amount of 2021 and the medico's are thinking long term rehab the they could move him onto the inactive list allowing 1 more spot to be freed up.
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This, otherwise why invite Moore back.
Maher has all the attributes to be a solid midfielder, with his only real knock being kicking at speed, but we have invested in speed, he has a fair peg otherwise though, and if we had a stronger midfield I’d question his invite. Some good pre-draft write ups on him, very much a slider. McDonald is my first choice as he could play forward or back, but if they did what Gun suggests above, I’d go Maher over Moore and not wait to the mid-season. There’s a few in the twos that may come on for the mid-season but I’m a bird in the hand type myself. Don’t need another Josh Deluca either, Maher is a better option IMHO.
 
Schoonerman said:
May and Lever are pretty good defenders so you can see why he misses out there.
Maybe hes not thaaaat bad..
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He's' not that bad at all. 2019 doesn't count as at the end of 2018 he had hip surgery, had no pre-season and was playing catch-up all year. 2020 was up and down, but he had a couple of strong matches, including the first where he was named amongst the best. More than anything, it's getting Lever and May onto the park and being able to play the more flexible Tomlinson as third KPD that has put paid to Oscar. We also have Petty coming back from a LTI, and he's seen as having more upside and future. Oscar has his limitations, mainly his speed, but he's a good reader of the ball, has run-all-day fitness, and knows how to play to a system. Also a nice bloke and well-liked by teammates, which doesn't hurt.
 
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Christou2Kouta said:
I think Jarrod Brander would be the perfect trade target next year. I'd even give LOB another contract if having another familiar face on the list would make us a more attractive destination. He provides some cover for Charlie and/or someone to take over from Jones.
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Fair call on targeting Brander.

LOB will be deserving of a contract extension based on form. Trust me on that on.

I do get where your coming from in terms of making our club more desirable for our trade target though. Essendon were trying to do the same thing with Josh and Kyle Dunkley.
 

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bing181 said:
He's' not that bad at all. 2019 doesn't count as at the end of 2018 he had hip surgery, had no pre-season and was playing catch-up all year. 2020 was up and down, but he had a couple of strong matches, including the first where he was named amongst the best. More than anything, it's getting Lever and May onto the park and being able to play the more flexible Tomlinson as third KPD that has put paid to Oscar. We also have Petty coming back from a LTI, and he's seen as having more upside and future. Oscar has his limitations, mainly his speed, but he's a good reader of the ball, has run-all-day fitness, and knows how to play to a system. Also a nice bloke and well-liked by teammates, which doesn't hurt.
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You do also have Tom McDonald available to step back if required.

It just feels as though it will be McDonald who will get he final list spot, unless Moore steps up considerably.
He'd have to as we know what he has to offer forward, so it's back or bust.
 
HARKER said:
You do also have Tom McDonald available to step back if required.

It just feels as though it will be McDonald who will get he final list spot, unless Moore steps up considerably.
He'd have to as we know what he has to offer forward, so it's back or bust.
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Pigs will fly before Moore steps up, had his chance.

Will be shocked if its not Mcdonald selected, ideal KPD depth.

Moore is VFL at best, Levi will fill in for Charlie position, will be very concerned if Moore is picked.
 
Ash24 said:
I think mainly just because of how he slid in the draft. He was originally classified as a possible top 25-30 pick, so clearly there's something there, like you mentioned the club wants to have a closer look at.

But then again, why when we have so many young mids of our own? Setters, Dow, O'Brien, Stocker, JSOS, Kennedy, Willo, Kemp, Philp, Carroll, Fogarty, Cunners, and SPS seems like plenty to me.

Should be interesting to follow, but still hope we end up taking McDonald.
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Maher fits the direction we are heading with our recruiting this year, speed, an ability to win contests and good overhead so it is no great surprise we have asked him to train with us.

I think we may also be looking to cover off for the 2017 draft picks of Dow and Obrien who haven’t progressed as much as we like, certainly Carroll fits the bill and is almost a hybrid of Dow/Obrien, Maher would also fit in this category.

I would have liked us to invite Kolar to train with us as he has some great athletic traits as well as being 195cm and while raw would be good cover if Charlie doesn’t come back as we would hope.
 
I hope it's not McDonald, because I think he adds nothing as a genuine KPD. Moore is only good for us if we're serious about developing him as an inside midfielder, otherwise I just don't like his skillset.

Which means my low-effort preference would be Maher. If we get an LTI in the pre-season, we can still sign someone until March.

If we get an LTI during the season, we'll bring someone in mid-season.
 
Ash24 said:
I think mainly just because of how he slid in the draft. He was originally classified as a possible top 25-30 pick, so clearly there's something there, like you mentioned the club wants to have a closer look at.

But then again, why when we have so many young mids of our own? Setters, Dow, O'Brien, Stocker, JSOS, Kennedy, Willo, Kemp, Philp, Carroll, Fogarty, Cunners, and SPS seems like plenty to me.

Should be interesting to follow, but still hope we end up taking McDonald.
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I still think the club is having a bob both ways; looking to ensure that, should SOS's picks fail, we have the players in the wings to replace them. We REALLY need to look into shoring up our KPP stocks next year.

Having had a little bit of time to do some research, I'm all for getting Maher in. A contested mid, with a sub 3 second 20m sprint, and good skills, metres gained, strength and leadership? Yes please!
 
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I’d be covering a KP spot purely as a backup for this year so McDonald imo could help out in defence if needed, also with a shortage of developing KPP’s at both ends coming through he helps support a position for the youngsters in our reserves team...
If Charlie’s rehab is looked at as needing too be very cautious so heaven forbid the bloke can actually get back and play some footy again, then I’d like the look of Maher as being given the LTI list spot and hopefully find a little potential diamond long term player...
KPD and KPF should be top of the list next year for either trade and or national draft, personally i love the club too be in Sam DeKoning’s ear 201cm KPD with 2years development under his belt...
 
FevolaWasFramed said:
Pigs will fly before Moore steps up, had his chance.
Will be shocked if its not Mcdonald selected, ideal KPD depth.
Moore is VFL at best, Levi will fill in for Charlie position, will be very concerned if Moore is picked.
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Why would anyone be very concerned for someone deemed to be the last player needed on the list?

It all points to McDonald right now, but if Moore shows plenty if trialed in the back-line......why not?
He's 193cm+. Is strong. Runs the 20mts @ 2.91 seconds. Has a very good vertical leap.
Can mark, but he may no be asked to do that, but just to punch the ball away from his opponent.
From what I saw of Moore first hand, I think he's worth a try there....if we trial him there.
 

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murphster said:
Maher fits the direction we are heading with our recruiting this year, speed, an ability to win contests and good overhead so it is no great surprise we have asked him to train with us.

I think we may also be looking to cover off for the 2017 draft picks of Dow and Obrien who haven’t progressed as much as we like, certainly Carroll fits the bill and is almost a hybrid of Dow/Obrien, Maher would also fit in this category.

I would have liked us to invite Kolar to train with us as he has some great athletic traits as well as being 195cm and while raw would be good cover if Charlie doesn’t come back as we would hope.
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Gethelred said:
I still think the club is having a bob both ways; looking to ensure that, should SOS's picks fail, we have the players in the wings to replace them. We REALLY need to look into shoring up our KPP stocks next year.

Having had a little bit of time to do some research, I'm all for getting Maher in. A contested mid, with a sub 3 second 20m sprint, and good skills, metres gained, strength and leadership? Yes please!
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IMO Maher hasn't shown the type of production I'd expect from an inside mid at underage level to warrant a place on an AFL list. He is someone I'd think would benefit greatly from another year at NAB League level as putting him on an AFL list now may hurt his development more than aid it.
 
The Smoking Gun said:
IMO Maher hasn't shown the type of production I'd expect from an inside mid at underage level to warrant a place on an AFL list. He is someone I'd think would benefit greatly from another year at NAB League level as putting him on an AFL list now may hurt his development more than aid it.
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Given that - as a more astute and frequent draft watcher than I am - how would you rate his prospects, all things being equal?
 
Gethelred said:
Given that - as a more astute and frequent draft watcher than I am - how would you rate his prospects, all things being equal?
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What the club has decided to do is try to identify one of those kids who fell through the cracks that may have rapidly improved had they had another year of development under their belts. Instead of waiting until Pick "X" in the mid-season draft the club has made the decision to push themselves up to Pick 1 by having a look at a prospect right now. It might prove to be a masterstroke, it might prove to be a fizzier, but I do like that Austin, Agresta & Brodie are prepared to be pro-active and get on the front foot.

The comments I've made about Maher refer to his output for the type of position he plays given that most players output will be significantly less at AFL level than what it was at junior levels. Maher's known average output at U18 level was around 10 disposals a match which for an inside mid isn't much. As we've seen with Cottrell, Gibbons & Honey if prospects want it enough and are prepared to put in the work anything can happen. I just find some of the assertions made in quite a number of the posts I've read to be wildly over-optimistic that's all.
 
The Smoking Gun said:
What the club has decided to do is try to identify one of those kids who fell through the cracks that may have rapidly improved had they had another year of development under their belts. Instead of waiting until Pick "X" in the mid-season draft the club has made the decision to push themselves up to Pick 1 by having a look at a prospect right now. It might prove to be a masterstroke, it might prove to be a fizzier, but I do like that Austin, Agresta & Brodie are prepared to be pro-active and get on the front foot.

The comments I've made about Maher refer to his output for the type of position he plays given that most players output will be significantly less at AFL level than what it was at junior levels. Maher's known average output at U18 level was around 10 disposals a match which for an inside mid isn't much. As we've seen with Cottrell, Gibbons & Honey if prospects want it enough and are prepared to put in the work anything can happen. I just find some of the assertions made in quite a number of the posts I've read to be wildly over-optimistic that's all.
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Can’t support these assertions TSG. I have no idea how Maher will fare during his trial, but you are assessing his under age year. Most juniors make significant improvement during their genuine draft year. In fact not that many play midfield minutes in their underage year. I don’t have figures on game time and the like, but any assessment either way, barring the obvious promise he must have to get games early is pure guess work or subjective projection. He missed all playing opportunity in his draft year, so at worst deserves a clean slate.ss

We have a decent window to get a guide, let’s allow our team to assess his prospects without prejudgment.
 
The Smoking Gun said:
What the club has decided to do is try to identify one of those kids who fell through the cracks that may have rapidly improved had they had another year of development under their belts. Instead of waiting until Pick "X" in the mid-season draft the club has made the decision to push themselves up to Pick 1 by having a look at a prospect right now. It might prove to be a masterstroke, it might prove to be a fizzier, but I do like that Austin, Agresta & Brodie are prepared to be pro-active and get on the front foot.

The comments I've made about Maher refer to his output for the type of position he plays given that most players output will be significantly less at AFL level than what it was at junior levels. Maher's known average output at U18 level was around 10 disposals a match which for an inside mid isn't much. As we've seen with Cottrell, Gibbons & Honey if prospects want it enough and are prepared to put in the work anything can happen. I just find some of the assertions made in quite a number of the posts I've read to be wildly over-optimistic that's all.
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Coona Blues said:
Can’t support these assertions TSG. I have no idea how Maher will fare during his trial, but you are assessing his under age year. Most juniors make significant improvement during their genuine draft year. In fact not that many play midfield minutes in their underage year. I don’t have figures on game time and the like, but any assessment either way, barring the obvious promise he must have to get games early is pure guess work or subjective projection. He missed all playing opportunity in his draft year, so at worst deserves a clean slate.ss

We have a decent window to get a guide, let’s allow our team to assess his prospects without prejudgment.
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Hmmmmmm..........did you actually bother to read the entire post or did you simply seize upon one sentence that doesn't align with your views???
 
The Smoking Gun said:
What the club has decided to do is try to identify one of those kids who fell through the cracks that may have rapidly improved had they had another year of development under their belts. Instead of waiting until Pick "X" in the mid-season draft the club has made the decision to push themselves up to Pick 1 by having a look at a prospect right now. It might prove to be a masterstroke, it might prove to be a fizzier, but I do like that Austin, Agresta & Brodie are prepared to be pro-active and get on the front foot.

The comments I've made about Maher refer to his output for the type of position he plays given that most players output will be significantly less at AFL level than what it was at junior levels. Maher's known average output at U18 level was around 10 disposals a match which for an inside mid isn't much. As we've seen with Cottrell, Gibbons & Honey if prospects want it enough and are prepared to put in the work anything can happen. I just find some of the assertions made in quite a number of the posts I've read to be wildly over-optimistic that's all.
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The Smoking Gun said:
Hmmmmmm..........did you actually bother to read the entire post or did you simply seize upon one sentence that doesn't align with your views???
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Did read it all, but for context let's do a bit of alternate highlighting.
 
Jimmae said:
I hope it's not McDonald, because I think he adds nothing as a genuine KPD. Moore is only good for us if we're serious about developing him as an inside midfielder, otherwise I just don't like his skillset.

Which means my low-effort preference would be Maher. If we get an LTI in the pre-season, we can still sign someone until March.

If we get an LTI during the season, we'll bring someone in mid-season.
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Develop Moore as an inside mid ? Wow I really have heard it all .
 
The Smoking Gun said:
IMO Maher hasn't shown the type of production I'd expect from an inside mid at underage level to warrant a place on an AFL list. He is someone I'd think would benefit greatly from another year at NAB League level as putting him on an AFL list now may hurt his development more than aid it.
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Maybe if we don't give Maher that last position we can have him on the VFL list (provided he wants too) so that we can grab him if a someone gets put on the inactive list which us a fair chance of happening .
 
murphster said:
Maher fits the direction we are heading with our recruiting this year, speed, an ability to win contests and good overhead so it is no great surprise we have asked him to train with us.

I think we may also be looking to cover off for the 2017 draft picks of Dow and Obrien who haven’t progressed as much as we like, certainly Carroll fits the bill and is almost a hybrid of Dow/Obrien, Maher would also fit in this category.

I would have liked us to invite Kolar to train with us as he has some great athletic traits as well as being 195cm and while raw would be good cover if Charlie doesn’t come back as we would hope.
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Yup you make a good point and I agree, there'll be a revision & clean out of nonperforming youngsters come end 2021 and further 2022 too , so many non contributors are unsustainable.
 
BlueJet said:
A player that performed well at the lower level as a ruck/ruck rover, may have some ability as an inside mid? Wow indeed...
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If we asked Moore to train with us another year, with the view in trialing out as an inside mid.......would tell me we have real concerns about our midfield.

It's possible but if he's not been given the chance to impress as a back-man, I'd be more than just a little surprised.
No point seeing what he can do forward. We've seen it and we didn't like it.
 
HARKER said:
If we asked Moore to train with us another year, with the view in trialing out as an inside mid.......would tell me we have real concerns about our midfield.

It's possible but if he's not been given the chance to impress as a back-man, I'd be more than just a little surprised.
No point seeing what he can do forward. We've seen it and we didn't like it.
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I have no idea what the clubs intentions are, I just have no time for pointless sneering from those that clearly haven't bothered paying attention.
It's become the done thing to write players off after a few poor games, the same approach would have seen Kade Simpson, Isaac Smith, Menegola etc playing local footy a long time ago - lucky for those players their clubs backed them in..
Will Moore, McDonald etc be able to put it all together? It remains to be seen.
 
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