2020 AFL Crowds & Ratings Thread

[RedV3x]

When they went from Nielsen's rating system of filling out a book to the set top box top data collection, they found a less people were watching TV.

Yes, they found the results were skewed in favour of popular commercial programs.
Ratings agencies still haven't overcome the major problem - who's watching.
They cannot tell who's watching for how long because it still depends on the survey people's discipline.

 

[The_Wookie]

So 5,250 boxes might survey 20,000 people or less than 0.1% of the population.
One survey person represents more than 1,000 people.
A fully loaded box represents at least 25,000 people.

Television ratings are an incestuous business. Television stations, advertisers and ratings agencies ALL want good ratings.
They all want to believe that people are watching popular programs on commercial television.
People watching the ABC, SBS, recorded media and those outside the demographics are of no interest.

ABC and SBS are reported in the ratings. Online media is also measured (BVOD). Its representative sampling and tv ratings are far from an island on this.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

So 5,250 boxes might survey 20,000 people or less than 0.1% of the population.
One survey person represents more than 1,000 people.
A fully loaded box represents at least 25,000 people.

Television ratings are an incestuous business. Television stations, advertisers and ratings agencies ALL want good ratings.
They all want to believe that people are watching popular programs on commercial television.
People watching the ABC, SBS, recorded media and those outside the demographics are of no interest.

That's not how sampling works. It's entirely statistically correct to only need to sample a few thousand, provided that thousand is demographically diverse.

In any case, I'm sure they communicate more precise "margin of error" numbers to the TV execs themselves, it's just not something that's public.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Stop right there. They are polls.

Why did you quote only half of my sentence, & omit the most important part " ...for the GF- as they (Morgan) can incorporate those who are watching in the multitude of mass-viewing locations ie home BBQ's/parties, pubs, bars, GR Club BBQ's etc."?
The GF is unique with the mass-viewing locations, the non-Morgan ratings' box-metres cant capture all the disparate locations, & their huge viewing nos.

Morgan Polling, now Australia's biggest, has been in existence since the 1940's, has annual turnovers of $40m pa (which is proof its customers consider it very accurate & valuable), & is one of Australia's most respected polling organisations.

Why do you have a better understanding of the GF viewing nos., cf Morgan polling?

Roy Morgan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Michael O'Brien WHO?LOL

I assume with your 2 very brief responses to my 2 posts above on the night GF, you are unwilling &/or unable to challenge the veracity & relevance of the facts & assertions I presented.

Perhaps you prefer the views of another Victorian MP, M. Pakula, ALP Minister for the Jobs & Productivity Dept.

He said to 3AW 's Neil Mitchell yesterday, re the possibility of a future move to a night GF

"I'm a traditionalist. The public view is clearly no. Waiting all day for the grand Final is a problem".

I repeat: Politicians can sniff the wind.

Those in favour of a night GF, always a small minority, appear to have contracted further. Following the GF, momentum in the MSM (from many disparate elements) has further shifted against a night GF. There will be much less discussion in the future that a night GF is a possibility.

Some more anti views

"The verdict is in, & it does not look good for the yellow Sherrin...the buck to convention has been met with widespread vitriol... Gideon Haigh... opted for succinctness, describing it as 'total crap' ".

Good night, and good luck: AFL grand final trial no less brilliant | Scott Heinrich

It seems that if TV executives are happy with a finale under lights, dyed-in-the-wool fans cannot be

www.theguardian.com

"The overall Victorian market average audience was 1.84m, which was 50% up on last year (obviously caused by the Melb. lockdown- my words & emphasis)". Even with the Melb. lockdown, the 2020 GF total nos. did not surpass the 2016 GF.

 

[RedV3x]

Why did you quote only half of my sentence,

Because they are polls. Enough said.

 

[RedV3x]

statistically correct.

Great example of oxymoron.

It's not statistics - it's sampling - statistical projection.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Great example of oxymoron.

It's not statistics - it's sampling - statistical projection.

"statistically proper", then

 

[RedV3x]

ABC and SBS are reported in the ratings. Online media is also measured (BVOD). Its representative sampling and tv ratings are far from an island on this.

Yes audit's still an incestuous business. A Ch9 confirmed what people had always suspected - ratings can be manipulated.
ratings can be manipulated easily and in many ways. In my case the ratings box was removed suspiciously after only a short period.
That was strange because it took a huge amount of time to set the devices up.

 

[RedV3x]

"statistically proper", then

sampling theory.

 

[Our Game]

Why did you quote only half of my sentence, & omit the most important part " ...for the GF- as they (Morgan) can incorporate those who are watching in the multitude of mass-viewing locations ie home BBQ's/parties, pubs, bars, GR Club BBQ's etc."?
The GF is unique with the mass-viewing locations, the non-Morgan ratings' box-metres cant capture all the disparate locations, & their huge viewing nos.

Morgan Polling, now Australia's biggest, has been in existence since the 1940's, has annual turnovers of $40m pa (which is proof its customers consider it very accurate & valuable), & is one of Australia's most respected polling organisations.

Why do you have a better understanding of the GF viewing nos., cf Morgan polling?

Roy Morgan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I assume with your 2 very brief responses to my 2 posts above on the night GF, you are unwilling &/or unable to challenge the veracity & relevance of the facts & assertions I presented.

Perhaps you prefer the views of another Victorian MP, M. Pakula, ALP Minister for the Jobs & Productivity Dept.

He said to 3AW 's Neil Mitchell yesterday, re the possibility of a future move to a night GF

"I'm a traditionalist. The public view is clearly no. Waiting all day for the grand Final is a problem".

I repeat: Politicians can sniff the wind.

Those in favour of a night GF, always a small minority, appear to have contracted further. Following the GF, momentum in the MSM (from many disparate elements) has further shifted against a night GF. There will be much less discussion in the future that a night GF is a possibility.


It's NOT M. Pakula, ALP Minister for the Jobs & Productivity Dept.decision.
It will be made by the AFL Commission not the State government or the fans!

If Ch 7 are willing to throw more money at a night GF it WILL happen sooner rather than later and dont forget the AFL = the clubs will need every extra dollar they can get over the next few seasons just to balance the books!.

 

[Kwality]

Crowds: with the end of the 2020 financial year over the weekend, do we know the crowd totals figures for the 2020 season?

 

[Gigantor]

Crowds: with the end of the 2020 financial year over the weekend, do we know the crowd totals figures for the 2020 season?

I would hazard a guess that it's the lowest since WWI

 

[manicmagpie]

Beats out 1942 but is lower than any other H & A season since records began in 1921.

Counting finals 2020 also beats 1943.

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/summary.html

 

[manicmagpie]

It's almost worth doing my usual end of season graphs just for the novelty value of Fremantle ending up top of both the overall and home game totals. Won't get much of a chance to use that purple colour scheme any other time.

Amazingly, Collingwood still managed to end up on top of the away game totals. Perhaps the only way the 2020 season resembled normality.

 

[Kwality]

It's almost worth doing my usual end of season graphs just for the novelty value of Fremantle ending up top of both the overall and home game totals. Won't get much of a chance to use that purple colour scheme any other time.

Amazingly, Collingwood still managed to end up on top of the away game totals. Perhaps the only way the 2020 season resembled normality.

Not familiar with your ' usual end of season graphs just for the novelty value...' . What did Collingwood end up on top of?

 

[The_Wookie]

Consolidated Grand Final TV Ratings added 32,000 to the AFL Grand Final ratings total taking it to 3.011m in the 5 cities.
Consolidated Grand Final TV Ratings added 3,000 to the NRL Grand Final ratings total taking it to 2.106m in the 5 cities.

Consolidated data not available for regions or Fox.

 

[manicmagpie]

Not familiar with your ' usual end of season graphs just for the novelty value...' .

I usually throw the same charts in at the end of each H & A season, mostly for my own amusement. For reference, the link below is to last year's edition:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2019-afl-crowds-ratings-thread.1211806/post-62548636

What did Collingwood end up on top of?

This year, by pure chance, Collingwood ended up on top of the total attendance at away games.

But it's one of the bigger constants in the league - if we count this year (& I won't be, going forward) it's happened 53 times in the last 68 seasons.

 

[Kwality]

I usually throw the same charts in at the end of each H & A season, mostly for my own amusement. For reference, the link below is to last year's edition:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2019-afl-crowds-ratings-thread.1211806/post-62548636



This year, by pure chance, Collingwood ended up on top of the total attendance at away games.

But it's one of the bigger constants in the league - if we count this year (& I won't be, going forward) it's happened 53 times in the last 68 seasons.

Ahh, that FIXture, pull the crowds ..... thats a compliment,

 

[manicmagpie]

Ahh, that FIXture, pull the crowds ..... thats a compliment,

The main reason I think that stat has any relevance at all is that it dates back to the 1950s. Not much tampering with the draw going on back then. In fact, the away fixture for each team was almost completely identical through the 60s and 70s.

Nowadays.... not so much.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Thought I would put this here, now that Melbourne's lockdown is being relaxed.
A great "virtual" mass rendition, by the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra, of Paul Kelly & The Coloured Girls "Leaps & Bounds".











For those interested, this is the history/background of the anthem, why Kelly wrote it etc.
Song first partially written in 1977 (chorus only!)- but finished in 1986.
The 1986 original, Official music video (with old images of the MCG & Melbourne) of this Paul Kelly song is contained in the link below (this copy has superior quality sound).

https://themusic.com.au/features/paul-kelly-bryget-chrisfield-1019/oVu5tbS3trk/13-11-19/

 

[Kwality]

Thought I would put this here, now that Melbourne's lockdown is being relaxed.
A great "virtual" mass rendition, by the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra, of Paul Kelly & The Coloured Girls "Leaps & Bounds".





For those interested, this is the history/background of the anthem, why Kelly wrote it etc.
Song first partially written in 1977, but finished much later!
The original 1986 video clip (with much superior sound quality) is contained in the link, with old images of the MCG & Melbourne

https://themusic.com.au/features/paul-kelly-bryget-chrisfield-1019/oVu5tbS3trk/13-11-19/

Could find the pill Paul.

 

[Our Game]

An interesting article from Masters for once but will ne be right?!

Why Kayo could help V’landys land knockout blow to AFL in TV cash fight

By Roy Masters
January 25, 2021 — 3.45pm

One of my few very rich friends once sat next to the late Cardinal Sin of the Philippines at a fundraising dinner in New York.
The cardinal whispered, loud enough for the nearby bankers to hear: “Money is the devil’s excrement, but it makes for wonderful manure...

Comparisons of broadcasting income for Australia’s two top football codes are notoriously difficult to make, especially when sports bosses hide behind “commercial-in-confidence” clauses, the same way politicians quote “national security” when refusing to answer a journalist’s questions.
V’landys won’t say how much the NRL received to extend its deal with Fox Sports until 2027, stressing it would breach its agreement with the News Corp-owned network, but conceded it was more than the 2018-22 payment.

Peter V’landys may have timed his run when it comes to the NRL’s free-to-air TV rights.CREDIT:NICK MOIR
However, the AFL announced on Christmas Eve that it had negotiated a deal with Fox until 2024, with “industry sources” saying the payment for 2023 and 2024 year represented a 25 percent increase and was $150m a year greater in each of these years than the NRL was receiving.
Fox are certainly paying the AFL more than in the previous contract, but Fox are getting more content in return. What the AFL didn’t say is that Telstra, which owns 35 percent of Fox, are cutting back on digital sports rights.

In other words, the AFL is receiving from Fox money formerly paid by Telstra, and Fox is receiving the content which formerly went to Telstra.
Telstra is expected to take a similar line with the NRL. Its contract concludes in 2022 but negotiations are complicated by the telco also having a naming rights deal with the NRL.
However, on an average annual basis, the AFL has done better in its new, two-year extended deal compared to its previous 2017-22 broadcasting contract with Fox, Seven and Telstra - even allowing for the discounts they gave broadcasters for the COVID-19 impacted 2020 season.
Seven paid more for the renegotiated 2020-2024 years, but the big question is whether the debt-burdened network can afford it. “Insiders” estimate that Seven have committed $50m a year more than it can pay and will come knocking on Fox’s door to offload some content.
Fox, also heavily indebted, won’t pay more.

The NRL doesn’t have a free-to-air deal past 2022. It also awarded rights holder, Nine, significant discounts for the 2020-22 seasons. Presumably, Nine used these savings partly to do a deal with rugby league’s historic rival, rugby union.
Rugby Australia concluded a deal late last year with Nine and its streaming arm, Stan Sport, to screen its games.
Furthermore, Stan Sport wasn’t around when V’landys extended his deal with Fox but emerged to offer some competitive tension for Fox’s extension with the AFL.
So, V’landys has been very accommodating to Nine, even making a late change in 2020 at the demand of the broadcaster to speed up the game via a “six-again” rule.
It didn’t lift ratings, which actually declined, but this was largely because Queensland turned off the game when none of its three teams made the top eight.

 

[Kwality]

There is conflict over Foxtel & Kayo in Supercars with FTA partner Channel 7.

Foxtel's Kayo launches free sport and entertainment offering Kayo Freebies (mumbrella.com.au)
'Foxtel’s sports streaming platform Kayo Sports has announced its new free tier offering will be called Kayo Freebies.

Kayo first revealed a forthcoming ‘freemium’ offering in October last year, and has now announced the launch of Kayo Freebies with the broadcast of Supercars race the Mt Panorama 500 on 26 February.'

Cant see how 7 wont add Supercars to Cricket in the Courts.

 

[Rob]

Interesting strategy by Fox. Presumably it's to encourage people get used to streaming live sport and then Fox can upsize those people to a full Kayo subscription. Not sure it'll work - but I see where they're coming from.

Bit offensive to Supercars and the A-League though - it's been said that it's part of them justifying their $40m handout for "women's, niche and under-represented sports". Motor racing and soccer are niche sports now?

BTW WTF is Masters on about? I can't work out what his point is. NRL will get so much more money from 9 because despite ratings having dived, they really kissed their arse?

 

[Kwality]

Interesting strategy by Fox. Presumably it's to encourage people get used to streaming live sport and then Fox can upsize those people to a full Kayo subscription. Not sure it'll work - but I see where they're coming from.

Bit offensive to Supercars and the A-League though - it's been said that it's part of them justifying their $40m handout for "women's, niche and under-represented sports". Motor racing and soccer are niche sports now?

BTW WTF is Masters on about? I can't work out what his point is. NRL will get so much more money from 9 because despite ratings having dived, they really kissed their arse?

From the motorsport press:
Kayo Freebies deal raises eyebrows at Seven - Speedcafe

Per a new broadcast deal commencing this year, Seven is Supercars’ free-to-air television partner, with the Bathurst season-opener one of six rounds designated to the network.

Seven also has non-exclusive streaming rights for those six rounds via its 7Plus platform.

Foxtel and Kayo meanwhile are the sport’s subscription television partner, offering extensive coverage of every round behind a paywall.

Speedcafe.com understands Seven has already given Supercars a stern reminder of the situation this morning, effectively putting them on notice.

“Kayo can do 14-day free trials and they can do a bunch of stuff but they can’t stream for free. They have got the subscription television rights,” one industry source told Speedcafe.com.

Seven West Media CEO James Warburton – who is Sean Seamer’s predecessor as Supercars CEO – has a reputation of not backing down, as has been seen of late in tense talks with Cricket Australia regarding their broadcast arrangement.