List Mgmt. 2015 Trade, Draft, Rookie Draft and FA Megathread

[Duckworth]

FWIW, if pick 5 turned into Carlisle and Freeman I would be happy. Then with pick 24 if we could get Kieran Collins that would be a superb result for us.

I would think that it is a massive win for you guys.

 

[felsty]

I would think that it is a massive win for you guys.

Not when they are both out of contract and one player hasnt even played a game yet. Super talents but they ARENT CONTRACTED! Honestly, what would clubs be asking for if they were contracted?

 

[Speck]

I think we're still hell bent on trying to get Carlisle, Freeman and keeping a top 10 pick.

I think us dropping one of those second rounders would do the job.

 

[Melksham2Siposs]

.. couldn't Carlisle just nominate for the draft and we take him at 5? hahaha that would be hilarious. Both clubs lose, one significantly more so than the other.

Not going to happen, but I'd love to take a stand. We're being spoken down to by a club that hasn't won a final in 10 years, has been the biggest blight on the game ever, and that we effectively sent into turmoil by absolutely spanking them in one of the most insipid efforts of all time.

Did I mention they recruited Adam Cooney because they thought they were a shot at the flag? hahaha seriously, that is mind blowing. Ahh well, I spose it was only a one year contract. But wait! hahaha

Bottom line is this: they want overs on a player that they used as a pin cushion, and who most normal employees out of the media limelight, without wicked money in their pocket, would sue to Pluto and back. Disgusting rats.

 

[plugger66]

Not when they are both out of contract and one player hasnt even played a game yet. Super talents but they ARENT CONTRACTED! Honestly, what would clubs be asking for if they were contracted?

But aren't most players traded OOC? Surely you get true value when OOC and maybe higher value when in contract. I agree that Carlisle and Freeman for pick 5 seems a bloody good deal all things considered.

 

[cartel]

Sam Lansberger has quoted an anonymous rival list manager saying "good clubs find a way" when talking about the Carlisle deal.

I'm pretty sure he's quoting thelistmanager and not a real list manager... I can't imagine any club's list manager making a comment like that when it doesn't involve them!

The Hun journos are are just gutter trawlers, making stuff up to suit their story

I have met Sam a few times socially. Nice enough bloke, but just a standard Essendon fanboi. He's living his dream as a sports journo, but it's sort of like some of those early episode Australian Idol/X Factor/The Voice contestants who think they are the next Beyonce. But Sam somehow makes a living out of it.

 

[Moquo]

Sam Lansberger has quoted an anonymous rival list manager saying "good clubs find a way" when talking about the Carlisle deal.

And good journalists don't make shit up.

 

[gringo2011]

FWIW, if pick 5 turned into Carlisle and Freeman I would be happy. Then with pick 24 if we could get Kieran Collins that would be a superb result for us.

I really don't see the point in getting another KPB in if we have traded in Carlisle and Goddard. We need mids and then some more mid and if we are lucky a couple of more mids. Ideally outside quick ones with elite ball winning capabilities and strong scoring prowess. I think who ever is left from Oliver, Gresham, Will Snelling, partington, Balic, Jansen , Gibbered etc.

I hope we go for my favourite if we only have a pick in the 20s and get hold of the other Kieran....Lovell. I reckon he will be a jet.

 

[felsty]

But aren't most players traded OOC? Surely you get true value when OOC and maybe higher value when in contract. I agree that Carlisle and Freeman for pick 5 seems a bloody good deal all things considered.

Its a little bit about value, but moreso where the value lies. If you're out of contract then the nominated club has the power (still need to get a trade done) whilst when your contracted the onus is on the nominated club to come to the party, otherwise the players club wont entertain it and hold them to their contract.

An example is Anderson and McCarthy. Hawks wouldn't have done the Anderson trade unless they were winning it. Same with us and McEvoy and Stanley. McCarthy may want to get home but, bad luck, the same manager that got you that sweet contract has effectively tied you to that club until your contract is over or GWS get an offer too good to refuse (ala Griffen and Boyd).

There is a lot of posturing going on but in the end Dons and us will agree upon something. That is a given. TBH I think they have done well to get pick 5 out of us, but regardless we aren't going to let that go lightly.

We are giving Essendon the chance to pick the 5th best AFL player in the world, currently outside of the AFL. That's not to be sneezed at and has much more value than what Carlisle currently has or what Carlisle and Freeman currently have put together.

I don't think Saints will budge with those two 2nd round picks. We want a presence in this draft early on, just like we have every other year. It may mean we throw in our 3rd instead of our 4th, or we get only one second rounder and Essendon's 2nd next year instead.

Regardless it will be sorted by close of trade.

 

[L_W_P]

FWIW, if pick 5 turned into Carlisle and Freeman I would be happy. Then with pick 24 if we could get Kieran Collins that would be a superb result for us.

Collins would probably be gone by then but someone like Gresham could slide.

Otherwise guys like Fiorini, Hibberd, Bonner or Clarke can help fill that outside need.

 

[gringo2011]

But aren't most players traded OOC? Surely you get true value when OOC and maybe higher value when in contract. I agree that Carlisle and Freeman for pick 5 seems a bloody good deal all things considered.

I guess it's how you rate your picks. I would be very wary trading two first rounders even on a guy like Treloar but you can see the logic in it. He's elite in his statistics, has a good 10 years at the top level, no injuries, he's already dominating in his early 20s and could potentially be a future brownlow winner. He's Nathan Buckley mark II, probably worth it. I would think trading out a pick 5 would be risky unless it's for an absolute A grader. I'm not sure we are getting that guaranteed in either of those two.

Freeman particularly is really, really injury prone. He hasn't managed to get on the park at any level for 2 years. An excuse you say shouldn't be allowed in keeping Lee or drafting in Mitch Brown from Sandy. Carlisle while he had an amazing period in 2013 of a series of about 8 weeks where he looked insanely good, he's really struggled to be anything special since. He's now behind 2 other guys at Essendon in the tall back department. Kosi had an incredible few weeks too but it didn't make him a number 5 pick. Carlisle also suffers from quite severe knee tendonitis.

He is possibly going to get suspended for a period and he also has some less than professional standards of conduct. I think he will be a good pick up but it's far from a no brainer unless you are being completely flippant. Getting picks in the top 5 can be few and far between once you start heading north and you really need to maximise your use of them while you have them. I'm not saying don't but you want to make sure it's the best possible outcome for our club. Not just so the football media have something to report on when nothing is happening.

 

[cowboysteel66]

Can someone reassure me that Carlisle will be a Saint next year please and give me reasons why. Thanks.

 

[TheJackal]

I would think that it is a massive win for you guys.

Perhaps 2 years ago.

This year, its probably a fair trade.

But when your rogue list bully plays a dangerous game and loses - I don't think we are going to be too interested in being fair anymore.

 

[gringo2011]

I think there has been tremendous disrespect shown to Bains from Essendon (and bizarrely Hawthorn) flogs. The guy has good form so far in my opinion as a list manager, and has achieved more in a week of his life than these kool aid slurpers have in their whole lives.

It's like one of those stories you hear of a scam where some guy in the pub turns up with a van full of huge TVs that were not invoiced from a department store and he has to get rid of them for $200 each straight away because he has to take the van back. All the pissed punters buy one. Bains is going "no it looks like bullshit", all the others fork out their money, get it home and find the boxes are empty. While they are all getting milked they keep telling Bains he's a "dumb ****" for not taking the deal. He wakes up the winner.

 

[plugger66]

I guess it's how you rate your picks. I would be very weary trading two first rounders even on a guy like Treloar but you can see the logic in it. He's elite in his statistics, has a good 10 years at the top level, no injuries, he's already dominating in his early 20s and could potentially be a future brownlow winner. He's Nathan Buckley mark II, probably worth it. I would think trading out a pick 5 would be risky unless it's for an absolute A grader. I'm not sure we are getting that guaranteed in either of those two.

Freeman particularly is really, really injury prone. He hasn't managed to get on the park at any level for 2 years. An excuse you say shouldn't be allowed in keeping Lee or drafting in Mitch Brown from Sandy. Carlisle while he had an amazing period in 2013 of a series of about 8 weeks where he looked insanely good, he's really struggled to be anything special since. He's now behind 2 other guys at Essendon in the tall back department. Kosi had an incredible few weeks too but it didn't make him a number 5 pick. Carlisle also suffers from quite severe knee tendonitis.

He is possibly going to get suspended for a period and he also has some less than professional standards of conduct. I think he will be a good pick up but it's far from a no brainer unless you are being completely flippant. Getting picks in the top 5 can be few and far between once you start heading north and you really need to maximise your use of them while you have them. I'm not saying don't but you want to make sure it's the best possible outcome for our club. Not just so the football media have something to report on when nothing is happening.

I don't even know what you mean about Lee. Not once have I mentioned he should be delisted. As for Brown he has been in the AFL system as long as Carlisle and you cant even slightly compare their careers and that's fair enough because one may go for pick 5. Freeman if fit and I know its a big if is a steal at around pick 25 because he is a former pick 10 and now has 2 years solid training in the AFL. Will be completely ready to go if the hammies stand up. And whatever you say the club obviously rate both players and now have offered pick 5 for him with something coming back of course. A deal will be done with both players. We will get Freeman and we hopefully will get Carlisle. I think both players for pick 5 seems pretty good and I think that will end up being the deal.

 

[Saintbloke]

Is it the devil you know or the devil you don't know for us? It's pretty clear what kind of player Carlisle is and what use he may or may not have for us in the team over the next 5 years- on the other hand we can presume #5 is going to be some kind of future gun.. or maybe not..might be a dud, might be just ordinary at AFL level..probably picks lower down the ranks will surprise everyone and become top players. Richo has made it clear he wants finals action sooner than later- like any coach, and if you drop an experienced big-marking tall type of player into a building team, then it really advances the cause.

 

[Fortius Quo]

People say that this years draft pool is skinny, however the top 25 seem to be thrown around constantly. It seems the top 25 or all chances of being good players.
If bs saying we are into mathison and he seems to be touted as a 15-20 pick then taking a risk in getting 2 top 20 or 3 top 25 for pick 5 could be worth it

 

[gringo2011]

What the hell is the rush? Why do St Kilda need to complete their deal half way through the period? Why aren't Collingwood, GWS, Gold Coast or Port copping it for drawing out negotiations? Those clubs have known for a hell of a lot longer than we have about the destination of the player in question. We haven't done anything wrong except be victim to underhanded dodgy carsalesmen tactics in a professional sport.

Im really really hope when this is all said and done we have someone like Finnis come out and return serve and drop a few truth bombs, because we are getting roasted for just wanting to achieve a fair outcome for our club.



They're just acting like any normal club would.

I think it's the way Essendon are playing it in the media that has made us come under scrutiny. Essendon have created a kind of mild hysteria and ramped pressure up to try to get us to jump at shadows. Kind of like a used car sales technique where you are told someone else looked at it and it's probably gone and there won't be as good a deal ever again. The media is the manager that comes out of the office and tells you the sales person is busting his balls selling it under what he paid for it.

Treloar is probably the best player that is being offered up for trade but both clubs are happy to keep it all behind the scenes while they negotiate. Essendon I reckon are trying to bully players out of trying to move on after their **** up. They now know the circus will follow and they will be put through media and public scrutiny. I'm glad Carlisle is away it would be a really oppressive environment if you had to deal with the constant commentary and questioning of your morals etc.

 

[Kilroy]

Clarke/Partington barely rating a mention after my previous post, I'm far from even finishing level one playing on expert though

Knightmare in his power rankings has Clarke at pick 8 and Partington at pick 14. Most phantom drafts have them in the top 25.

Partington's size may see him slip a little and he had to deal with the death of his father early in the year, so it wouldn't be surprising if his form wavered a little. Given All-Australian honours after the Under 18 Championships.

 

[NeXus Nick]

I really don't see the point in getting another KPB in if we have traded in Carlisle and Goddard. We need mids and then some more mid and if we are lucky a couple of more mids. Ideally outside quick ones with elite ball winning capabilities and strong scoring prowess. I think who ever is left from Oliver, Gresham, Will Snelling, partington, Balic, Jansen , Gibbered etc.

I hope we go for my favourite if we only have a pick in the 20s and get hold of the other Kieran....Lovell. I reckon he will be a jet.

I don't agree. With the acquisition of Freeman addressing our midfielder needs the next step is a KPD. Fisher will retire after the 2016 season and Dempster will more than likely retire a year later. We desperately need a Kieran Collins type. Fast forward 2 years and if we have a 26 year old Carlisle as the general of the back line and his assistants were a 21 year old Goddard and a 20 year old Collins I would be rapt. This could be as good as Lake, Gibson and Frawley but a lot younger.

 

[YEMOC NAYR]

Can someone reassure me that Carlisle will be a Saint next year please and give me reasons why. Thanks.

Because he wants to be a saint, he will get to you guys.

In the end, when a list manager has a choice between losing a player for free or getting a pick 5 in the door- he's always going to get the pick.

ess will have 23+25. JC walks... we lose JC, and have 23 and 25.
ess could get pick 5, but lose 23+25. still losing JC regardless.

I think club would take the pick 5 over 23 and 25 anyway, cos JC is gone. Hawks deal won't work cos jakes determined to end up at seaford

 

[gringo2011]

I don't even know what you mean about Lee. Not once have I mentioned he should be delisted. As for Brown he has been in the AFL system as long as Carlisle and you cant even slightly compare their careers and that's fair enough because one may go for pick 5. Freeman if fit and I know its a big if is a steal at around pick 25 because he is a former pick 10 and now has 2 years solid training in the AFL. Will be completely ready to go if the hammies stand up. And whatever you say the club obviously rate both players and now have offered pick 5 for him with something coming back of course. A deal will be done with both players. We will get Freeman and we hopefully will get Carlisle. I think both players for pick 5 seems pretty good and I think that will end up being the deal.

Freeman hasn't got 2 years training because he's spent a large percentage of his time unable to train from ripping his hamstrings off. He's played 2 games of VFL and a couple of practice matches. I'd say he's as good as a new recruit. Jesse Smith was a potential top 10 draft pick that went to NM with a FS. He was in a similar position - I think we got him for a pick in the 50s or something because we saw the risk and thought we'd take over the chance he might not make it. Richard Tambling was an absolute steal for Adelaide then. I hope the send christmas cards to Richmond every year in thanks.

To me Freeman is like buying a neglected car that hasn't been maintained. He might be a bargain but the off set is that some major work will be required to just get him to drive. The industry tends to suggest that Aish is probably worth a pick in the late teens to early 20s and his first year he nearly won a rising star award. Brisbane quit a heap of first rounders at the start of last year and most went from first round picks to second round compensation.

Jared Polec who was outstanding last year at Port was a pick 5 in 2011. The end of 2013 he went to Port for pick 14 and port got 21 and 45 back.

Billy Longer was pick 8 but we sent 25 and 41 and got back 48. That was after he won a rising star nomination at Brisbane. That is just how it is. Unless you are buying a blue chip player, guys who want to move are of less value than their original trade.

 

[gringo2011]

I don't agree. With the acquisition of Freeman addressing our midfielder needs the next step is a KPD. Fisher will retire after the 2016 season and Dempster will more than likely retire a year later. We desperately need a Kieran Collins type. Fast forward 2 years and if we have a 26 year old Carlisle as the general of the back line and his assistants were a 21 year old Goddard and a 20 year old Collins I would be rapt. This could be as good as Lake, Gibson and Frawley but a lot younger.

I see your point but don't think it's a like for like. Francis would be the ideal replacement for Dempster but we won't get him. I think Collins is more your old school KPB he does seem to have added a bit of intercept marking to his arsenal but we probably need someone like Lee or trade in someone for that role. Dempster is surprisingly good a closing in on his player and is super accountable, he reads the play a step ahead of those around him. Possibly we could try to get Robbo to play that role but we lose some run that way.

 

[St Pauls]

i did some more digging and found they have 3 saints
View attachment 185060

I wonder if Minchi is being considered in the Carlisle deal?

 

[plugger66]

Freeman hasn't got 2 years training because he's spent a large percentage of his time unable to train from ripping his hamstrings off. He's played 2 games of VFL and a couple of practice matches. I'd say he's as good as a new recruit. Jesse Smith was a potential top 10 draft pick that went to NM with a FS. He was in a similar position - I think we got him for a pick in the 50s or something because we saw the risk and thought we'd take over the chance he might not make it. Richard Tambling was an absolute steal for Adelaide then. I hope the send christmas cards to Richmond every year in thanks.

To me Freeman is like buying a neglected car that hasn't been maintained. He might be a bargain but the off set is that some major work will be required to just get him to drive. The industry tends to suggest that Aish is probably worth a pick in the late teens to early 20s and his first year he nearly won a rising star award. Brisbane quit a heap of first rounders at the start of last year and most went from first round picks to second round compensation.

Jared Polec who was outstanding last year at Port was a pick 5 in 2011. The end of 2013 he went to Port for pick 14 and port got 21 and 45 back.

Billy Longer was pick 8 but we sent 25 and 41 and got back 48. That was after he won a rising star nomination at Brisbane. That is just how it is. Unless you are buying a blue chip player, guys who want to move are of less value than their original trade.

Yep and that's why I think about pick 25 is the right pick for Freeman who was pick 10 and he has 2 years under his belt no matter what injuries he has had. His body shape would have changed and he has the experience of AFL training for 2 years. No idea what Smith has to do with anything. Tambling even less so. May as well mention Fyffe and Steven and Fisher.