List Mgmt. 2014 Draft + DFA Talk Part II

[_RT_]

Amen
Edit: I dont agree with Ellis at 12

Not many do, but he comes across as a pure midfielder.

 

[Tigerbob]

Surely not at 12.
Many better options there at our pick.

If I had to pick between Ellis and Gartlett I'd know who I'd pick.

 

[Mr Magic]

1. According to Dan Richardson, yes we have the money. Will we need to pay Cameron that much? i.e. out of contract (which Boyd was not) plus what team in Melbourne is going to be able to pay him that? Likely not to switch from GWS to go to a St Kilda, Melbourne or Western Bulldogs.


2. Window - our core group of players is in the 21-26 bracket now, so according to the window I'd say were coming into 10 to 12 which means we should be competitive for the next four years plus any top up FA/rookies/draft picks.



3. Team balance, we have no CHF at the moment that can kick more than 30 goals a year. Surely a Jeremy Cameron fits that bill? Does that not improve team balance? Griff back up/pinch hitter when Astbury invariably goes down with an injury, Vickery competes with Maric for #1 ruck spot (Maric not getting younger either) and Hampson depth only and will probably go after next year then throw McBean into the mix.



Not sure what ruse Dan Richardson would be playing, but the above all sounds about right to me. Who would you possibly have brought in this year over who you could potentially get next year? If you had to weigh that up, and lets be honest we weren't exactly active in this years trade period, surely you would take a punt on the FA pool in 2015 (like every other club will be). We brought Dan Richardson to the club because of the way FA was going, 2015 is the first year it really opens up with quality. If we don't land anyone next year trust me, I'll be the first to spew up.

First point. Cameron is worth a lot more than Boyd. As for according to Dan Richardson why should we believe anything that goes to the media. Seriously, I have no idea if its a ruse or not but 17 other clubs would like Dangerfield and Cameron at value. But if Dan was really doing his job would he really signal specific targets via the media? Of course we can let Dangerfield and Cameron know we want them but we do not have to go through the media to do it!!

2.Core group is not good enough despite any age breakup so more young talent clearly required. Competitive for next 4 years? not even sure what that means. I mean eyeballing the players and not saying anything because they now I know we all know we are ready to win a premiership with confidence(thats when your really in a window so getting belted in finals means you are not in the window unless your using both hands)

3. Team balance: Who said a conventional CHF would work with our ruck/forward hybrids, JR and others like Dusty and Lids. We don't have a CHB that can stop a good CHF kicking 60 goals atm! For example how does TV or Grifiths play effectively with Cameron. Will we be too top heavy with all these plus the ruck and KPP backman? How could Griff be a backup to a lessor Astbury as a back or forward? Throw McBean in the mix? how? Any letting Hampson go is a waste after 2nd rounder used even as a backup. How does TV compete with Maric for no.1 ruck spot and does that suit him or team balance? If using TV just as ruck why not use Hampson if TV wants to and is suitable to play forward at times like Griffiths?

Final paragraph: Actually,I am not to fussed over shiel or 2015 tbh. I am looking for far higher quality levels. One guy I am looking at as a far better option for our forward line and team balance at better value is Tomlinson. I rate Tomilinson far higher to forwarding RFC's prospects going forward than Cameron or Shiel tbh. No doubt, Cameron is a better player but I think Tomlinson would make RFC a more effective team with the related synergies than Cameron! I am eyeballing Fyfe a few years away to be honest and by that stage if we do it right there will be no doubt we will have had every opportunity to build a quality contending list by then if done smartly. What makes you think RFC's squad will be good enough end of 2015? to attract superstars like Lebron James without the high young drafts clubs like the Pies are accruing?

 

[Tiger68]

I doubt we'll pick Wright if he is available, we have Jack Vickery Griffiths McBean & possibly Elton as forwards and Maric Hampson(don't laugh) Vickery Griffiths & Soldo for ruck duties, taking Wright would be a waste and for those that suggest taking him so we could then trade a Vickery next year for Shiel, how do you propose to keep/get Vickerys value high enough to warrant GWS trading one of their best young mids for a player that we're not going to waste a year on if we're trading him.

So to keep/ get his value up we would need to play him every week, now what happens if Vickery kicked 35-40 goals next year and plays a key part in us making the finals again? Do we still trade him out for Shiel and bring in McBean or Wright to take his place, neither of who would be proven or even ready to fill the void.

IMO if Wright makes it to us then he'll be passed over and will end up in Fremantle as a Pavlich replacement.

FWIW my preference for pick 12 are:
1. Lachie Weller 182cm 77kg 18 year old Midfielder
9 NEAFL Games
11 kicks
7.1 handballs
18.1 disposals
5.2 marks
2.4 tackles
5.6 contested possessions

Endurance, pace, skills & class. Earlier in the year I was off Weller because he was listed as a 71kg twig, but having put on a good 6kg he has bulked right up and I've jumped back on board. Ideally I'd have Weller as a HFF/FP to begin with and then have him develop as a winger opposite Ellis.

2. Liam Duggan 184cm 75kg 17 year old Midfielder
11 TAC Cup Games
12.5 kicks
9.6 handballs
22.1 disposals
4 marks
5 tackles
10.6 contested possessions

Ball winning inside midfielder who is also defensively accountable, ideal for a HBF to start off while Vlastuin moves into the midfield, then move into the midfield in a year or 2.

3. Corey Ellis 184cm 74kg 18 year old Midfielder
8 TAC Cup Games
12.5 kicks
9.8 handbals
22.3 disposals
3.8 marks
3.5 tackles
11 contested possessions

Would be the same as Duggan, HBF to start then midfield.

A pretty good assessment I think. I reckon Ellis is underrated, seems to me he is one of the best kicks available, when you consider left and right. No love for De Goey ? Id have him in this mix as well.

 

[theflea]

1. According to Dan Richardson, yes we have the money. Will we need to pay Cameron that much? i.e. out of contract (which Boyd was not) plus what team in Melbourne is going to be able to pay him that? Likely not to switch from GWS to go to a St Kilda, Melbourne or Western Bulldogs

2. Window - our core group of players is in the 21-26 bracket now, so according to the window I'd say were coming into 10 to 12 which means we should be competitive for the next four years plus any top up FA/rookies/draft picks

3. Team balance, we have no CHF at the moment that can kick more than 30 goals a year. Surely a Jeremy Cameron fits that bill? Does that not improve team balance? Griff back up/pinch hitter when Astbury invariably goes down with an injury, Vickery competes with Maric for #1 ruck spot (Maric not getting younger either) and Hampson depth only and will probably go after next year then throw McBean into the mix.

Not sure what ruse Dan Richardson would be playing, but the above all sounds about right to me. Who would you possibly have brought in this year over who you could potentially get next year? If you had to weigh that up, and lets be honest we weren't exactly active in this years trade period, surely you would take a punt on the FA pool in 2015 (like every other club will be). We brought Dan Richardson to the club because of the way FA was going, 2015 is the first year it really opens up with quality. If we don't land anyone next year trust me, I'll be the first to spew up.

We brought in DR purely because he has a unique understanding of player contracts and what they are worth. Our TPP was all out of whack and this is what we needed to fix. He was also seen as management material anyway, so this other skill set was a bonus.

 

[Mr Magic]

I doubt we'll pick Wright if he is available, we have Jack Vickery Griffiths McBean & possibly Elton as forwards and Maric Hampson(don't laugh) Vickery Griffiths & Soldo for ruck duties, taking Wright would be a waste and for those that suggest taking him so we could then trade a Vickery next year for Shiel, how do you propose to keep/get Vickerys value high enough to warrant GWS trading one of their best young mids for a player that we're not going to waste a year on if we're trading him.

So to keep/ get his value up we would need to play him every week, now what happens if Vickery kicked 35-40 goals next year and plays a key part in us making the finals again? Do we still trade him out for Shiel and bring in McBean or Wright to take his place, neither of who would be proven or even ready to fill the void.

IMO if Wright makes it to us then he'll be passed over and will end up in Fremantle as a Pavlich replacement.

FWIW my preference for pick 12 are:
1. Lachie Weller 182cm 77kg 18 year old Midfielder
9 NEAFL Games
11 kicks
7.1 handballs
18.1 disposals
5.2 marks
2.4 tackles
5.6 contested possessions

Endurance, pace, skills & class. Earlier in the year I was off Weller because he was listed as a 71kg twig, but having put on a good 6kg he has bulked right up and I've jumped back on board. Ideally I'd have Weller as a HFF/FP to begin with and then have him develop as a winger opposite Ellis.

2. Liam Duggan 184cm 75kg 17 year old Midfielder
11 TAC Cup Games
12.5 kicks
9.6 handballs
22.1 disposals
4 marks
5 tackles
10.6 contested possessions

Ball winning inside midfielder who is also defensively accountable, ideal for a HBF to start off while Vlastuin moves into the midfield, then move into the midfield in a year or 2.

3. Corey Ellis 184cm 74kg 18 year old Midfielder
8 TAC Cup Games
12.5 kicks
9.8 handbals
22.3 disposals
3.8 marks
3.5 tackles
11 contested possessions

Would be the same as Duggan, HBF to start then midfield.

Okay, lets get serious. Vickery's value has nothing to do with getting Wright. If anything getting Wright is the best chance Vickery makes it because it allows him to play more in the ruck while Wright is forward and so the mobility of the bigs without a conventional rucks allows them to actually make a team capable of becoming a contender. The fact Griffiths can get further up the ground permits these forwards being a little taller if anything due to the separation created by his movement. Wright is a far more versatile forward than Vickery because he can lead to half forward and kick from distance. Truth is Vickery might not make it with or without Wright as may McBean and Elton. The best determinant of Vickery's value is Vickery and his output with or without Wright!

As for McBean and Elton they are no guarantees to make it anyway. If they do Vickery or someone else might have to be traded. But whether we get Wright or not make no mistake McBean cannot play in the forward line unless he plays some ruck because as a sole forward for extended periods with the others he is too immobile! Watch the Swans. Healy on the couch might be proved right when Tippet gets shifted into the uck at times for the team to be more effective throughout the course of the match!

If Wright is available you get him and if you don't that would be a waste because he holds highest value. Just say he does a 2001 Ottens burst and you trade him away for your Hodge pick and or Judd pick!

 

[captain cotch 9]

It's quite simple. If Wright is there at 12 we need to take him. McBean hasn't proved anything yet. Griffiths has had 1 ok year out of 5 and Elton is a long term project. We can still pick up good midfielders with out later picks. Mobile talls are worth gold. Look at how much value Boyd had just from potential.
We cannot pass on Wright if he is there

 

[theflea]

First point. Cameron is worth a lot more than Boyd. As for according to Dan Richardson why should we believe anything that goes to the media. Seriously, I have no idea if its a ruse or not but 17 other clubs would like Dangerfield and Cameron at value. But if Dan was really doing his job would he really signal specific targets via the media? Of course we can let Dangerfield and Cameron know we want them but we do not have to go through the media to do it!!

2.Core group is not good enough despite any age breakup so more young talent clearly required. Competitive for next 4 years? not even sure what that means. I mean eyeballing the players and not saying anything because they now I know we all know we are ready to win a premiership with confidence(thats when your really in a window so getting belted in finals means you are not in the window unless your using both hands)

3. Team balance: Who said a conventional CHF would work with our ruck/forward hybrids, JR and others like Dusty and Lids. We don't have a CHB that can stop a good CHF kicking 60 goals atm! For example how does TV or Grifiths play effectively with Cameron. Will we be too top heavy with all these plus the ruck and KPP backman? How could Griff be a backup to a lessor Astbury as a back or forward? Throw McBean in the mix? how? Any letting Hampson go is a waste after 2nd rounder used even as a backup. How does TV compete with Maric for no.1 ruck spot and does that suit him or team balance? If using TV just as ruck why not use Hampson if TV wants to and is suitable to play forward at times like Griffiths?

Final paragraph: Actually,I am not to fussed over shiel or 2015 tbh. I am looking for far higher quality levels. One guy I am looking at as a far better option for our forward line and team balance at better value is Tomlinson. I rate Tomilinson far higher to forwarding RFC's prospects going forward than Cameron or Shiel tbh. No doubt, Cameron is a better player but I think Tomlinson would make RFC a more effective team with the related synergies than Cameron! I am eyeballing Fyfe a few years away to be honest and by that stage if we do it right there will be no doubt we will have had every opportunity to build a quality contending list by then if done smartly. What makes you think RFC's squad will be good enough end of 2015? to attract superstars like Lebron James without the high young drafts clubs like the Pies are accruing?

Just a couple of points. The list is comprised of 44 players not just 22. Of course if a Cameron/Dangerfield came to our club then adjustments have to be made. But some similar (obviously not the same quality)will stay as backup. This has happened since the dawn of time. Plus we do have a CHB who can stop CHF's and his name is Rance. What we do need is a FB and hopefully barring injury his name is Astbury.

 

[Mr Magic]

It's quite simple. If Wright is there at 12 we need to take him. McBean hasn't proved anything yet. Griffiths has had 1 ok year out of 5 and Elton is a long term project. We can still pick up good midfielders with out later picks. Mobile talls are worth gold. Look at how much value Boyd had just from potential.
We cannot pass on Wright if he is there

Agree.

Fact is Weller is a bit like Ellis. Point is you get another Weller type or similar next year, the year after, the year after that around the same mark.

You do not normally get KPP quality so late with Wright Durdin and Goddard. Fact is Essendon has been banned, Gold Coast and GWS anomalies have hoarded KPP for years creating a skew, WC is well set for KPP, Pies have Moore, traded for big guys recently with 2 picks, Melbourne have been at the bottom for a while and have Hogan, so the stars have aligned a little.

If RFC let a Wright, Durdin or Goddard go it will be utter stupidity because guaranteed the next 4 picks will be mid types and there will be better mids in 2015, 2016 etc.. etc.. not to mention trades and FA!!!

For those that see Rance as a FB we need a long term CHB swingman who can help Rance, Astbury and the others as well!!!

 

[bananatigz]

Agree.

Fact is Weller is a bit like Ellis. Point is you get another Weller type or similar next year, the year after, the year after that around the same mark.

You do not normally get KPP quality so late with Wright Durdin and Goddard. Fact is Essendon has been banned, Gold Coast and GWS anomalies have hoarded KPP for years creating a skew, WC is well set for KPP, Pies have Moore, Melbourne have been at the bottom for a while and have Hogan, so the stars have aligned a little.

If RFC let a Wright, Durdin or Goddard go it will be utter stupidity because guaranteed the next 4 picks will be mid types and there will be better mids in 2015, 2016 etc.. etc.. not to mention trades and FA!!!

Agree this applies to Wright, but I would argue that Weller is a better player than either Durdin or Goddard, you take the best available at 12 draft for needs with your other picks

 

[DrMike]

Unfortunately that is the more common scenario. Neither of Griffiths, Vickery and Mcbean will net us a gun midfielder in return.
Hopefully they can have massive seasons to improve their worth to other clubs.

McBean would get us half of the GWS list combined thank you very much

You keep your hands off

 

[Mr Magic]

Agree this applies to Wright, but I would argue that Weller is a better player than either Durdin or Goddard, you take the best available at 12 draft for needs with your other picks

Actually determining best available you have to allow for supply and demand for players positions and relative value. It could easily be argued Weller is the better player but each of the 3 KPP types are worth more and therefore must be picked!!!

tbh I am not excited about Weller anyway and frankly will just get in the way of Ellis and other better mid type players when they come on board IMO but thats beside the point.

Just my opinion, I rate the KPP's above Weller anyway as prospects at AFL level!

We really should be targeting a quality KPP if available IMO. Part of our problem is apart from JR and Griffiths we have invested f... all in our KPP's and 2nd rounder speculatives do not count! I regard Rance as virtually a 1st rounder and TV as a ruck draftee. So its no surprise where our best KPP's have come from in the draft!!

 

[bananatigz]

Actually determining best available you have to allow for supply and demand for players positions and relative value. It could easily be argued Weller is the better player but each of the 3 KPP types are worth more and therefore must be picked!!!

tbh I am not excited about Weller anyway and frankly will just get in the way of Ellis and other better players when they come on board IMO but thats beside the point.

We really should be targeting a quality KPP if available IMO. Part of our problem is apart from JR and Griffiths we have invested f... all in our KPP's and 2nd rounder speculatives do not count!

Don't agree that KPP's are worth more to us at this stage, Weller is exactly the type of mid we need to be looking at as a speedy yet tough outside midfielder, more of an immediate need for us than a KPP who probably wont be able to contribute to a good level for at least 3-4 years.

Vickery #8
Reiwoldt #13
Rance #18
Griffiths #19
Elton #26
McBean #33
Astbury #35

Plus Chaplin as a FA and Batchelor and McIntosh as tallish types in the second round as well, we've invested a lot in KPP's, second round picks are still highly regarded and I wouldn't describe them as speculative, 3rd round on it's a lot more hit and miss

 

[Mr Magic]

Don't agree that KPP's are worth more to us at this stage, Weller is exactly the type of mid we need to be looking at as a speedy yet tough outside midfielder, more of an immediate need for us than a KPP who probably wont be able to contribute to a good level for at least 3-4 years.

Vickery #8
Reiwoldt #13
Rance #18
Griffiths #19
Elton #26
McBean #33
Astbury #35

Plus Chaplin as a FA and Batchelor and McIntosh as tallish types in the second round as well, we've invested a lot in KPP's, second round picks are still highly regarded and I wouldn't describe them as speculative, 3rd round on it's a lot more hit and miss

So what you are saying is the only quality KPP we drafted at the time was JR, Rance, and Griffiths given Rance slid, Griffiths had suspect shoulders making him slide.

TV was a ruck draftee. Chaplin average at Port and the others second rounder hopefuls like Post, not to mention our other ruck draftee Pattison in 2004

As for Weller, too short for half back, wing, will not get ahead of Lennon, Dust and Lids at half forward and these outside forward types will rotate through the wing for right footers along with Ellis, Miles has the rover position covered and he(Weller) is more outside anyway so many say, hardly worth it for a small forward or pack pocket when better players for the roles at better value so frankly Weller doesn't hardly fill any role at all at RFC.

Ellis was a good pick at the time because it was a shallow draft and nothing much after. This is a far better draft. Frankly there are better players around Weller and I would prefer later mids in later rounds anyway! Sorry Weller, Ellis has the gig for me so no RFC need at all!

Weller is a neat AFL quality player that will make the grade. Does he command pick 12 for us? No!

 

[theflea]

Miles outside? Now I have heard it all...............

 

[tigs2010]

Miles outside? Now I have heard it all...............

Lol swear some people don't actually watch games or actually follow this club. I think they are called trolls.

 

[bananatigz]

So what you are saying is the only quality KPP we drafted at the time was JR, Rance, and Griffiths given Rance slid, Griffiths had suspect shoulders making him slide.

TV was a ruck draftee. Chaplin average at Port and the others second rounder hopefuls like Post, not to mention our other ruck draftee Pattison in 2004

As for Weller, too short for half back, wing, will not get ahead of Lennon, Dust and Lids at half forward, Miles has the rover position covered and he(Weller) is more outside anyway so many say, hardly worth it for a small forward or pack pocket when better players for the roles at better value so frankly Weller doesn't hardly fill any role at all at RFC.

Ellis was a good pick at the time because it was a shallow draft and nothing much after. This is a far better draft. Frankly there are better players around Weller and I would prefer later mids in later rounds anyway! Sorry Weller, Ellis has the gig for me so no RFC need at all!

Weller is a neat AFL quality player that will make the grade. Does he command pick 12 for us? No!

Not all of them have turned out terrifically, all though I would certainly call Astbury a success and still have high hopes for McBean, but that does not mean we have not invested a lot in KPP's. You mentioning Post and Pattinson who didn't work out just further shows that. I don't see Durdin or Goddard as an immediate need. Down back you have Rance and Astbury as the pillars with one of Grimes/Chaplin as that third tall, with the other being depth and Elton developing in the 2's behind that. Up forward you have Jack, TV, and Griffiths, we haven't established if those 3 can even all fit into the same side yet, with McBean looking extremely promising in the 2's behind that. Sure we need to add depth to that at both ends, but to me that does not scream overlooking better players to bring in KPP's with our first pick.

I think Weller turns out to be a very good player with a decent inside game to go with his outside one, and i don't see how him being only 6ft means he can't play on a half-back or wing? Most players who play in those positions would be around 6ft I would have thought. Doubt Weller even gets to us as he would be a deserving top 10 pick, but I can't see how our KPP stocks justify taking a Durdin or Goddard over him for the simple fact they are talls.

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

With a draft as evenly spread as this years is, I would love if there was the ability to trade on draft day like Americans sports have.

 

[DontArgue4]

With a draft as evenly spread as this years is, I would love if there was the ability to trade on draft day like Americans sports have.

Always said this should be allowed, makes draft day so much more interesting

 

[Mr Magic]

Not all of them have turned out terrifically, all though I would certainly call Astbury a success and still have high hopes for McBean, but that does not mean we have not invested a lot in KPP's. You mentioning Post and Pattinson who didn't work out just further shows that. I don't see Durdin or Goddard as an immediate need. Down back you have Rance and Astbury as the pillars with one of Grimes/Chaplin as that third tall, with the other being depth and Elton developing in the 2's behind that. Up forward you have Jack, TV, and Griffiths, we haven't established if those 3 can even all fit into the same side yet, with McBean looking extremely promising in the 2's behind that. Sure we need to add depth to that at both ends, but to me that does not scream overlooking better players to bring in KPP's with our first pick.

I think Weller turns out to be a very good player with a decent inside game to go with his outside one, and i don't see how him being only 6ft means he can't play on a half-back or wing? Most players who play in those positions would be around 6ft I would have thought. Doubt Weller even gets to us as he would be a deserving top 10 pick, but I can't see how our KPP stocks justify taking a Durdin or Goddard over him for the simple fact they are talls.

Astbury has been successful. That is clear!! But I see him as a stopper, and Rance a worker with agility. We clearly need a touch of class in the big guys down back with someone more versatile. Remembering Rance is versatile in the backline as is Grimes and others

Still, a lot of recent past picks are ruck type prospects not KKP's which is a big difference. Narrow your search criteria to 196cm and less and most likely you will find a higher success rate at RFC further supported by AFL history stats for KPPs.

Lets be honest Chaplin has never been AFL standard even at Port. Port knew best running through him in the final. Pattison was never prospect even at the draft but he was a ruck. Those saying I never like Dimma were wrong, but I never really liked Chaplin. I thought like Hampson he was brought in to help us get better draft picks honestly not thinking we would be paying that type of currency for him!

McBean is an interesting one because even if he is a success he cannot play with Griffiths and TV unless all go through the ruck and we do not play a conventional ruck man. That is my opinion but I am happy to make the call and watch proceedings follow. Mobility is the problem with all three as a group and a ruckman. Not convinced McBean will necessarily make it anyway and in what position tbh. Highly raw and speculative is McBean IMO.

Seriously the line would have already been put through Vickery but the potential is there so you just have to hope he develops as he would have little value as a trade. Those thinking of getting Shiel for TV even as a part trade are seeing something I don't atm.

Griffith's has shown enough, he just needs an appropriate set-up to exploit his talents. That will come if we are smart!

As for best half backs see Smith, Goddard, Heppell, Corey etc.. we are trying to build a premiership team not a team of also rans. Then when you look at the wing see Hawthorn's Smith, Macrae and others. Sure their are shorter types but we will be having Lids, Dusty and others rotating through the wing when we get good enough surely as we get the required heavy artillery in the middle!

 

[bananatigz]

Astbury has been successful. That is clear!! But I see him as a stopper, and Rance a worker with agility. We clearly need a touch of class in the big guys down back with someone more versatile. Remembering Rance is versatile in the backline as is Grimes and others

Still, a lot of recent past picks are ruck type prospects not KKP's which is a big difference. Narrow your search criteria to 196cm and less and most likely you will find a higher success rate at RFC further supported by AFL history stats for KPPs.

Lets be honest Chaplin has never been AFL standard even at Port. Port knew best running through him in the final. Pattison was never prospect even at the draft but he was a ruck. Those saying I never like Dimma were wrong, but I never really liked Chaplin. I thought like Hampson he was brought in to help us get better draft picks honestly not thinking we would be paying that type of currency for him!

McBean is an interesting one because even if he is a success he cannot play with Griffiths and TV unless all go through the ruck and we do not play a conventional ruck man. That is my opinion but I am happy to make the call and watch proceedings follow. Mobility is the problem with all three as a group and a ruckman. Not convinced McBean will necessarily make it anyway and in what position tbh. Highly raw and speculative is McBean IMO.

Seriously the line would have already been put through Vickery but the potential is there so you just have to hope he develops as he would have little value as a trade. Those thinking of getting Shiel for TV even as a part trade are seeing something I don't atm.

Griffith's has shown enough, he just needs an appropriate set-up to exploit his talents. That will come if we are smart!

As for best half backs see Smith, Goddard, Heppell, Corey etc.. we are trying to build a premiership team not a team of also rans. Then when you look at the wing see Hawthorn's Smith, Macrae and others. Sure their are shorter types but we will be having Lids, Dusty and others rotating through the wing when we get good enough surely as we get the required heavy artillery in the middle!

We have Rance, Chaplin and Grimes who are all versatile and can play different roles. Our very own AA CHB Alexander Rance gives us the touch of class we need I would have thought. Chaplin although has shocking moments and bad games is certainly AFL standard, and put together some strong form in the back half of the year when Rance got back. Clearly isn't suited to play on the best forwards, luckily we have Rance and Astbury for that, but in that floating quarterback role he can play good footy and finally having Rance and Astbury fit together should enable us to do that.

As you say the forward line is a headache trying to fit everyone in as it is, don't think it's a massive need bringing someone else in, however if Wright is there you just have to take him no questions about it. Don't buy the line through Vickery thing, yes he has potential but he has also shown it, was on track to kick 40 goals had he played every game last season and the general consensus was he wasn't even playing that well.

Simply put there is no immediate need for a KPP or Ruck in our 22 at the moment, however i certainly think there is a spot both on half back and on the wing and a bloke like Weller could slot into either of those spots perfectly, we have houli on the back flank and ellis on the wing but no one naturally suited to play on the opposite side.
There a good players who are tall who play in those spots, good players who are medium height like weller and good players who are smaller, height isn't indicative of how well you can play on a wing or half-back.

With that in mind i'd argue that if you are looking at needs Weller would be a more immediate one when you look at our best 22 than either Goddard or Durdin and if you are going just on merit Weller comes out on top there too.

 

[Stylo]

Not many do, but he comes across as a pure midfielder.

How so? His numbers aren't overly impressive and his poor games are very poor. He's probably a top 20 pick but the way things are shaping there'll be at least a few significantly better options available at 12. And by 'better' I mean with more upside and arguably safer. I'd be extremely disappointed if we chose Ellis over any of Duggan, De Goey, Weller, Wright, Blakely, Durdin, Garlett, Cockatoo... And probably some others but you get the picture. He just screams Jane Lucas to me.

 

[Mr Magic]

We have Rance, Chaplin and Grimes who are all versatile and can play different roles. Our very own AA CHB Alexander Rance gives us the touch of class we need I would have thought. Chaplin although has shocking moments and bad games is certainly AFL standard, and put together some strong form in the back half of the year when Rance got back. Clearly isn't suited to play on the best forwards, luckily we have Rance and Astbury for that, but in that floating quarterback role he can play good footy and finally having Rance and Astbury fit together should enable us to do that.

As you say the forward line is a headache trying to fit everyone in as it is, don't think it's a massive need bringing someone else in, however if Wright is there you just have to take him no questions about it. Don't buy the line through Vickery thing, yes he has potential but he has also shown it, was on track to kick 40 goals had he played every game last season and the general consensus was he wasn't even playing that well.

Simply put there is no immediate need for a KPP or Ruck in our 22 at the moment, however i certainly think there is a spot both on half back and on the wing and a bloke like Weller could slot into either of those spots perfectly, we have houli on the back flank and ellis on the wing but no one naturally suited to play on the opposite side.
There a good players who are tall who play in those spots, good players who are medium height like weller and good players who are smaller, height isn't indicative of how well you can play on a wing or half-back.

With that in mind i'd argue that if you are looking at needs Weller would be a more immediate one when you look at our best 22 than either Goddard or Durdin and if you are going just on merit Weller comes out on top there too.

Chaplin is not afl standard and Rance is not necessarily a CHB, it depends on match ups with opposition forwards but luckily Rance has backline versatility. Honestly I see Rance more a natural FB who can play CHB where he can use his agility most effectively. The fact is before we really step up we need another big backman to replace Chaplin and who can also play forward and or ruck to give us the support we need as match-ups change. It is not good enough for contenders to just have guys playing in the backline. We are trying to win a premiership here and the acceptance of mediocrity and sub-standard types cannot be tolerated again because we are running out of time before we start a new fresh rebuild and other potential prospects like a Boyd will start to assess this!

The issue with Chaplin, like some Port posters say, is his is Tarzan that plays like Jane, Fact is he is a a big body who wants to play as the loose guy down back. This is absurd because he does not have the agility, pace, skill to play a looser guy down back like a Kolinjaski of the Gold Coast. He has to use his body to compete with bigger forwards which he does not do well so he is an inbetweener and not a master at all in the backline. The way Chaplin plays makes us top heavy tbh IMO. He does not play the quarterback role well unlike his Gold Coast counterpart or even a Hodge because he is not the right type with the right skillset which is why Port ran through him in the final!!

Weller is not a medium height. He is a small. Medium height these days is 183cm or 184cm to 187/188cm. Tall mids are 188/189cm to 191/194cm with your talls being Goodes/Bontempelli types along with Pendlebury's etc.. or even Richo on the wing. You cannot have Weller playing with Houli as they do not have the marking intercept capability of someone like a Hodge, Birchall, Suckling, Corey, Mackie and others...

The more I have been discussing this the more I think we may pick Langford. Wasn't to grabbed by his initial highlights, nor do I think he will be the next Bontempelli as some suggest, but at least if he can use both feet apparently and could give us some versatility for both half back flanks, wing and even forward. If he could develop a greater midfield role later even better. Actually looking at the latest AFL highlights for Langford which are more impressive he is far more suitable for RFC and I would place him ahead of Weller clearly for us!!

 

[Tiger Claw]

In regards Chaplin I think his place in the side is more about his experience of reading the play down back and directing for others more than his individual game.

Rance has really come on this year because he's improved his own sense of knowing where to go and what to do at the right time. Chaplin won't be required when other's step up likewise.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Unfortunately that is the more common scenario. Neither of Griffiths, Vickery and Mcbean will net us a gun midfielder in return.
Hopefully they can have massive seasons to improve their worth to other clubs.

There's the problem.Improve then why trade?