2011 Official Draft Discussion Thread

[BomberTime]

HFF, you may have already mentioned it somewhere but who would you be taking if you were in charge of essendons recruiting. Im assuming we are only using our first 3 picks in the ND??

 

[Yoda_]

As it stands we have 3 main draft picks (19, 41, 59) and 3 rookie draft picks (11, 22, 33)

I would love a draft like this:

Pick 19.

Sam Kerridge, 187cm, 82kg, 26.4.1993, Bendigo Pioneers

A tough inside midfielder who played a handful of games for the Bendigo Bombers late in the season including the first elimination final. More than held his own and looks like he could transfer his skills to AFL sooner rather than later. Kicking is not his greatest skill but has improved over his journey, perhaps take a safer option instead of trying too much. He has been compared to Chris Judd in which he has great breakaway speed from the pack. I think it would perhaps be a 'reach' at 19, but I think we would be getting a very good player here.

Pick 41.

Sebastian Ross, 187cm, 82kg, 7.5.1993, North Ballarat Rebels

A very nicely balanced inside midfielder who looks just as adequate playing outside. A real tough nut with nice size, Ross has a lovely left foot and delivers the ball precisely inside 50. He is the cousin of Jobe Watson, but let's not make that the only reason. He would take a year or so to develop but I think he could make an impact at AFL level.

Pick 59.

Josh Tynan, 84cm, 72kg, 6.11.1993, Gippsland Power

A very good small defender who represented Vic Country at the championships. Very good 1:1 and has very good skills. Excellent overhead and loves the contest, as far as small defenders go, I think he is the best available in this draft (apart from Brandon Ellis inside the top 10).

Rookie Draft

Pick 11.

Gibson Turner, 180cm, 70kg, 22.7.1993, Northern Territory Thunder

A lively small forward who is excellent at reading the ball of the pack. Averaged 2 goals a game and looks like a very likely type.

Pick 22.

Jay Lever, 200cm, 86kg, 15.6.1993, Geelong Falcons

A tall, raw ruckmen who represented Vic Country at this years championships. A talented tap ruckmen who averaged 10 hitouts a game in the championships. Has neat skills for a big man and is fairly mobile for a big man, can take a grab. Watch out for this young man's name to pop up in the rookie draft.

Pick 33.


Ben Ross, 179cm, 79kg, 21.9.1988, North Melbourne Kangaroos

A very talented midfielder who has struggled with injuries in the past two years. Would not mind him on our list as he is simply to good to be plugging away in the VFL. Could come in and be a really good player, high risk, high reward type.

NSW Scholarship upgrade

Oliver Tweedale, 194cm, 89kg, 19 y.o, Belconnen

Represented NSW at this years under 18 championships and did a reasonable job for the Rams. Was used in a variety of roles, but looked most at home playing as a lead up forward. Can take a grab, and can kick the ball nicely. Has some work to do, but we are essentially getting him for free anyways.

This would be a perfect draft for me as we would be getting 3 quality midfielders, a small defender, a small forward and a ruckmen to develop.

 

[Slattery_20]

For the 9938250th time... off the list (so far): 3 talls. 5 smalls. 0 rucks.

I can't really predict what is going to happen, but I do disagree with your logic there. Can't imagine any situation where we'd only get smalls (& a single ruck).

 

[helicopter]

we need to draft one more ruckmen for back up if hille, ryder or bellchambers goes down

 

[Yoda_]

For the 9938250th time... off the list (so far): 3 talls. 5 smalls. 0 rucks.

I can't really predict what is going to happen, but I do disagree with your logic there. Can't imagine any situation where we'd only get smalls (& a single ruck).

But, but, but..

Stuart Crameri > Mark Williams
Oliver Tweedale > Darcy Daniher
Josh Tynan > Andrew Welsh

We need more midfielders, not flankers.. I do agree we will probably go with another tall, but not sure where though, perhaps in the third round (Cam Valentine perhaps?).

 

[Yoda_]

we need to draft one more ruckmen for back up if hille, ryder or bellchambers goes down

Add to the fact that all our younger ruckmen are all 21 - 23 any ways, so we need a developing ruckmen to come on when these current guys are aging.

 

[fishardansin]

For the 9938250th time... off the list (so far): 3 talls. 5 smalls. 0 rucks.

I can't really predict what is going to happen, but I do disagree with your logic there. Can't imagine any situation where we'd only get smalls (& a single ruck).

I can see it happening (no talls). Perhaps hope that Weylan Manson is available in Rookie draft.

I hope we go:

#19 Kerrige/Waldhunter

#41 Saad

#59 Turner

#77 Crameri upgrade

Rookies: Manson and some mature age small back pockets and defensive mids. Also a ruck if Jenkins goes otherwise Ryder, Hille, TBell and Jenkins is enough.

 

[Slattery_20]

Add to the fact that all our younger ruckmen are all 21 - 23 any ways, so we need a developing ruckmen to come on when these current guys are aging.

Let's get the tallest 12 year old in the country.

But, but, but..

Stuart Crameri > Mark Williams
Oliver Tweedale > Darcy Daniher
Josh Tynan > Andrew Welsh

We need more midfielders, not flankers.. I do agree we will probably go with another tall, but not sure where though, perhaps in the third round (Cam Valentine perhaps?).

But but but what?
The last 3 drafts we've picked plenty of midfielders; the last 2 drafts have given us our best 2 young midfielders in over a decade

1st pick, no doubt, we'll pick another; because that player should really be some sort of quality who will add to the group.

But... I just cannot get the logic that we need to keep getting midfielder after midfielder after midfielder all the way down the draft.... because we lack at the top end.
We want quality, not quantity.
We have quantity; plenty of guys who are 'good enough' in various roles.

Elsewhere on the list
We have literally ZERO depth after Davey, and he's not going too well;
ZERO depth after Luke Davis (and a 95 year old incumbent);
ZERO depth after Steinberg;
and likely to lose two small backs leaving ZERO depth after Hibberd.

Conversely
We have 2 rucks outside the 22;
and we have about 4 proper midfielders outside the 22 (as well as 3 or 4 more in the 22 and 3 or 4 more at Bendigo who start as flanks)



I read most stuff you post, and I do get a bit from it... but I don't think you think enough about analysing and building a list over the longer term.

Rather than throwing pick after pick at only one problem then being utterly surprised when another one presents the next year.... look at all areas simultaneously and try and guard against being in a real hole in any one area.

With 7 or 8 (?) picks we shoiuld be looking at a bunch of different types of problem/player; not the same one repeated.

 

[fishardansin]

Ok read some stuff on Sebb Ross (ok I also watched him on youtube). Replace Saad for him I think. Can any draft expect tell us if he's likely to be around come pick #41? Basically said he was good inside, loves to tackle and has good disposal, even under pressure.

 

[Yoda_]

Let's get the tallest 12 year old in the country.

Every can see we need a developing ruckmen to include on our list. Yes, we have young Daniher coming onto our list, but he is more of a forward, rather than a ruckmen.

We need someone to come onto the list who we can develop for the next 2 - 3 years.

But but but what?
The last 3 drafts we've picked plenty of midfielders; the last 2 drafts have given us our best 2 young midfielders in over a decade

1st pick, no doubt, we'll pick another; because that player should really be some sort of quality who will add to the group.

But... I just cannot get the logic that we need to keep getting midfielder after midfielder after midfielder all the way down the draft.... because we lack at the top end.
We want quality, not quantity.
We have quantity; plenty of guys who are 'good enough' in various roles.

Elsewhere on the list
We have literally ZERO depth after Davey, and he's not going too well;
ZERO depth after Luke Davis (and a 95 year old incumbent);
ZERO depth after Steinberg;
and likely to lose two small backs leaving ZERO depth after Hibberd.

Conversely
We have 2 rucks outside the 22;
and we have about 4 proper midfielders outside the 22 (as well as 3 or 4 more in the 22 and 3 or 4 more at Bendigo who start as flanks)

Yes, I agree we do need to look at a variety of positions, but, we have alot of flankers already, just think we could use more pure midfielders.

I thought I addressed most of our needs, obviously, we could use perhaps a utility type, a tall forward/defender, others obviously see our needs differently, yourself included?

I read most stuff you post, and I do get a bit from it... but I don't think you think enough about analysing and building a list over the longer term.

Rather than throwing pick after pick at only one problem then being utterly surprised when another one presents the next year.... look at all areas simultaneously and try and guard against being in a real hole in any one area.

With 7 or 8 (?) picks we shoiuld be looking at a bunch of different types of problem/player; not the same one repeated.

I agree that I perhaps got a bit overboard with the midfielders, however, Kerridge and Ross could play across half forward/forward pocket in the seniors early whilst Tynan is the replacement for Slattery. The rookie draft is all speculative and will produce some shocks, perhaps a delisted player or a mature aged guy.

Would also not be surprised to see us end up with 4 - 5 National Draft picks (including the Crameri upgrade).

 

[The Fact]

Hey HHF_07

What are your views on Josh Waldhunter and Marley Williams really like both of them and they are both hard and quick with good skills thoughts

 

[yaco55]

HFF

Be interesting to see how close your projections are to the actual draft.

Disappointing that Jamie Elliot was picked up by Collingwood as he was one of your suggestions for a small forward role.

Thinking that we should have more than 3 rookie draft picks - Only Jenkins will stay - unless another club grabs him.

 

[Slattery_20]

Every can see we need a developing ruckmen to include on our list. Yes, we have young Daniher coming onto our list, but he is more of a forward, rather than a ruckmen.

We need someone to come onto the list who we can develop for the next 2 - 3 years.

I don't see it as any sort of priority. We've got 3 guys who can walk in and ruck a whole year, right now. One is aging, fine, but there's a young prospect coming through who doesn't look terrible. Plus Gumby. I'd draft a ruck when Hille walks, and not before.

Yes, I agree we do need to look at a variety of positions, but, we have alot of flankers already, just think we could use more pure midfielders.

Have I ever mentioned flankers?

I thought I addressed most of our needs, obviously, we could use perhaps a utility type, a tall forward/defender, others obviously see our needs differently, yourself included?

This is about the 5th time I've posted the same thing: "we will get at least one tall because we have lost multiple talls"
Pretty consistent.

For me; priority 1 is actually a crumber.
To my mind; Davey as our one and only crumber with no support and no backup is a far, far, far weaker area than, say, Lonergan/Howlett battling out for the 5th midfield spot.
Midfielder also a priority, but have a bit of time up our sleeves.

If we get a real small crumbing forward; a genuine on-ball midfielder; and a key prospect of some sort in our first 4-5 picks; I think we'll have filled most of our gaps.

Then think about small backs, maybe a ruck if they're a standout, maybe another mid etc... whatever's there.

I agree that I perhaps got a bit overboard with the midfielders, however, Kerridge and Ross could play across half forward/forward pocket in the seniors early whilst Tynan is the replacement for Slattery.

Why, though?
Why draft a square peg if you've got a round hole?

Do you not see the pocket spot as a problem? Do you think Davey (at 27, with 80 odd games in 5 years) is a completely risk-free good thing?

Would also not be surprised to see us end up with 4 - 5 National Draft picks (including the Crameri upgrade).

It's 4 as it stands; 5 if Dyson goes (and I think he will either way)

And btw we've already had 4 off the rookies... not sure on Webster's situation cos of the NSW shizzy, and Quinn is quite possibly gone, too.... so that might be 5 or 6.

 

[Yoda_]

I have covered our (your) needs, draft a tall in the main draft if we end up with 5 National Draft picks, and whats to say that we cannot draft a tall in the rookie draft.

These 'talls' you continue to mention are third talls, not genuine KPP, unless we have delisted others I am unaware of? If we were to go down the KPP path, then I do like the look of Cameron Valentine in the 3rd round, possibly even fourth. Saw him in the young guns game and he just jumps at his marks, has a beautiful kicking techniqure and has clean skills for a big man (192cm). Not sure on who could be available in the rookie draft, as far as talls are concerned.

As for this precious small forward spot.. what should we do? draft two or three of them to get one right? I picked out Gibson Turner who we could upgrade from the rookie list should he show enough to play some senior football, perhaps a Nick Maric or the other young TAC kid being talked about, Anastasio. One other I have heard good reports about is a kid from down my way, Darren Minchington. At 182cm, he is a very good size for a small forward, reads the ball well off the packs and showed some very good form for the Stingrays late in the year (came in late after a slow start at club level - Frankston Bombers I believe). Can push into the midfield and make an impact, so a few options out there Slattery.

As for our needs; think we will go (in both drafts, pick no. irrelevant):

- 2/3 midfielders
- small forward
- small defender/utility
- KPP (ok I agree with what your saying here)
- perhaps a 3rd tall forward/defender type also
- potentially a ruckmen

All depends on who is out of contract still (as it stands 13.10.2011)

- Ricky Dyson
- Dustin Fletcher (Veteran)
- Sam Lonergan
- Anthony Long
- Nathan Lovett-Murray
- Brent Prismall

With Mark Williams, Andrew Welsh and Darcy Daniher already having retired. Could end up with 8 (+ Crameri upgrade) in the main draft, obviously chances of that are next to nothing but hey, who knows..

Dont think we are completely finished on our delistings just yet..

 

[Yoda_]

Hey HHF_07

What are your views on Josh Waldhunter and Marley Williams really like both of them and they are both hard and quick with good skills thoughts

I wouldnt be looking at Waldhunter with our first pick (19), not whilst there are other more talented midfielders around this mark. As good as he is, think he could potentially slide, would fit in nicely at a St.Kilda or Richmond.

As for Williams, he is one I havent seen much of, from the limited footage I have seen, he seems a very likely type. Could reach for him at the second round, has that ability to play in a variety of positions but looks most at home on the ball or on a wing. He is creative, quick, and has very good skills. Can read the ball well of packs, so watch out for him come draft day also, in and around the second round onwards.

HFF

Be interesting to see how close your projections are to the actual draft.

Disappointing that Jamie Elliot was picked up by Collingwood as he was one of your suggestions for a small forward role.

Thinking that we should have more than 3 rookie draft picks - Only Jenkins will stay - unless another club grabs him.

I am spewing for Elliot. He was one of the small forwards I would have taken in the main draft, he seemed like he could come in and make an impact quite early (first season early). Oh well, just another reason to hate Collingwood I suppose

Will be interesting to see where 'my' guys go, really think Seb Ross can push into the first round.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Round 1. Brad Hill
Round 2 Ahmed Saad
Round 3. A Tall of some variety
Upgrade Crameri

 

[Slattery_20]

These 'talls' you continue to mention are third talls, not genuine KPP, unless we have delisted others I am unaware of?

Neagle a third tall? K...

Regardless.

We have, as it stands, 6 (Fletch, Hurls, Hooker, Carlisle, Pears, Gumby) proper KPs on the list. Can't count on Fletch or Gumby.
And 2 probably-3rd-tall-size, totally unseen, kids.

That's it, that's all. 4.

Hooker & Pears do a hammie at the same time? We're lining up Luke Davis on Dawes/Roughead/Hawkins.
Good luck with that.

As for this precious small forward spot.. what should we do? draft two or three of them to get one right?

Draft a good one, maybe?
With a pick before the rookies, maybe?

All depends on who is out of contract still (as it stands 13.10.2011)

- Ricky Dyson
- Dustin Fletcher (Veteran)
- Sam Lonergan
- Anthony Long
- Nathan Lovett-Murray
- Brent Prismall

None of whom are relevant to the need for a small forward or tall prospect. At all.

 

[Yoda_]

You said we have delisted KPP's, have we though? yes we have delisted one (Neagle), but I have said in the past three posts that Williams, Daniher are both third talls.

I am agreeing that we are going to pick a tall somewhere in the draft, with Tweedale coming in also.

Why is it so important to draft a small forward in the National Draft?

 

[Slattery_20]

You said we have delisted KPP's, have we though? yes we have delisted one (Neagle), but I have said in the past three posts that Williams, Daniher are both third talls.

Yes.
TSlatts and Daniher lined up on KPs, so what's the difference? 1cm here or there doesn't make a difference; as it stands we have 6 guys who can play on the big boys; 2 of those are month-to-month prospects.

That is not even close to enough, then consider Hooker and Pears seem to miss 8 games a year each?

I am agreeing that we are going to pick a tall somewhere in the draft, with Tweedale coming in also.

A kid who's barely even played top level juniors?

I see no problems there at all, the weeks Pears/Hooker miss he can take Buddy while Luke Davis gets Roughead - and we'll be sweet.

Why is it so important to draft a small forward in the National Draft?

To get a good one?


Every thread, I don't intend to have a go at you. Honestly I don't.

But if you can't see that there's two big holes on the list besides midfield, you're either pig-headed, trolling, or thick as shit.

 

[Yoda_]

Yes.
TSlatts and Daniher lined up on KPs, so what's the difference? 1cm here or there doesn't make a difference; as it stands we have 6 guys who can play on the big boys; 2 of those are month-to-month prospects.

That is not even close to enough, then consider Hooker and Pears seem to miss 8 games a year each?

I see where your coming from now (no sarcasm). I suppose, when you put it like that, we do need (that dreaded word) depth at both ends, with question marks all over our once envious KPP.

A kid who's barely even played top level juniors?

I see no problems there at all, the weeks Pears/Hooker miss he can take Buddy while Luke Davis gets Roughead - and we'll be sweet.

TBH, reading Ant555's reports on him, he plays his best football as a tall wingmen, drifting into a flating half forward.

To get a good one?

But there are story after story of small forwards who came from the rookie draft. (the top 5 small forward goal kickers for season 2011 were)

Steven Milne, pick 23, 1999 rookie draft
Eddie Betts, pick 3, 2004 pre season draft
Steven Johnson, pick 24, 2001 national draft
Jeff Garlett, pick 85, 2010 rookie draft
Mark LeCras, pick 37, 2004 national draft

And to be fair, two of those guys are forward/midfielders (Johnson & LeCras), so you can pick up those guys in the rookie draft/PSD.

I agree we will get one, but it can wait till the rookie draft where those kids that lack 'size' will still be around.

Every thread, I don't intend to have a go at you. Honestly I don't.

But if you can't see that there's two big holes on the list besides midfield, you're either pig-headed, trolling, or thick as shit.

 

[Vtorians]

From draft week radio
Saints pick 20 for milera, Saad & pick 25

With us having pick 19 should we be trumping the saints or have we already worked a deal involving our rd 1 pick

 

[Slattery_20]

But there are story after story of small forwards who came from the rookie draft. (the top 5 small forward goal kickers for season 2011 were)

Steven Milne, pick 23, 1999 rookie draft
Eddie Betts, pick 3, 2004 pre season draft
Steven Johnson, pick 24, 2001 national draft
Jeff Garlett, pick 85, 2010 rookie draft
Mark LeCras, pick 37, 2004 national draft

3 gun crumbers off the rookies in 11 years?
Dead certainty!

 

[yaco55]

Maybe the MODS should ask 6 posters to produce their list of draft selections for EFC in the 2011 ND.

See if there is much divergence from HFF's list.

Could make for lots of discussion.

 

[Kong]

You can do that, yaco.

 

[yaco55]

You can do that, yaco.

I am not a MOD.