13 weeks in - Can Brendan McCartney coach?

[wian]

It amazes me that people go for the coaches head after getting belted Saturday, but lets take 2-3 specific incidents in saturday nights game which re iterate my point that its the players piss poor efforts and their lack of correct application which i am sure would be drilled week in and week out by the coaching staff.. Lake Ball watching against Hurley which cost us an early goal. The commentators were perplexed as how stupid lake was to take his eyes and body off Hurley and ball watch. In fact BT commented to Richo that most forwards eyes would light up when this starts to happen as you have effectively won the mind game against your defender... And of course our mate Howard who "Carried On" like a soft, week ****ter out there and let Jetta waltz around him for a piss easy goal and on another occasion missed a piss easy tackle against Watson and let the prick kick a goal from 30 out?

Oh, and what about the atrocious kicking for goal ( Piss easy goals 20 - 30 m out ) from a heap of our blokes all this year... Jones, Roughead, Cordy, Boyd to name a few... Is this the coaches fault? Or is it the application of the blokes running around on the field?

Now how on earth are the above incidents Macca's Fault ? I would be tearing my hair out if i was in the coaches box and that happened. Certainly nothing to do with the coaches, but rest squarely on the players

As i have said earlier, we need blokes in our side that absolutely HATE being beaten by their opponent and who are mentally tough as nails ! Most of our current blokes are as soft as shit mentally and are not intimidating at all ! I for once would love more blokes on the side like Picken that actually rough opponents up and do some intimidating rather than acting like they are being walked all over and meek little boys out there !

IMO, we only have a handfull of these type blokes on the team so Macca has inherited a lot of dead wood, so he needs time to filter the shit out and get these aggressive , highly competitive blokes on the list that would rather spew up than get beaten in a contest.

Mark my words, i will hold Macca and the recruitment staff responsible for the draft picks that they get over the next 2 seasons though....

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Can he coach- I'd say yes at this stage. Some have been calling for his head which is way to premature and extremely unfair.

Our list structure is pretty horrible right now. We went all out a few seasons back trying to build a list to win it all (who can blame us) and now it is looking very unbalanced. We have got a lot of old guys, a lot of young guys without a lot in the middle (the guys in their prime). Hasn't helped that those young players from our prelim finals losses haven't gone on as we'd hoped. Really our best 3 young guys in those teams were Harbrow, Ward and Higgins. 2 have left and injuries have certainly taken their toll on Higgins.

I think the main focuses this year are getting the contested ball and developing the young guys (particularly the bigs). I see us drafting two quick, classy outside mids this season with our two top ten picks which will should really help with our speed issues and efficiency issues. Winning the contested ball will mean a hell of a lot more once we get better at using it.

I've got a lot of faith in McCartney. It was never going to be a quick fix, and this season was always going to be a tough one, but I reckon we will be back competing in the top 8 (hopefully top 4) in a few seasons.

 

[Leon]

Wish people would give him a go, it's way too premature to e saying either way whether he can coach.

I understand that at the moment we are not a very good side to watch and are struggling. People are also frustrated because our premiership window has ended and we are back in yet another rebuild.

He needs to be judged at the end of next year and the year after.

I have faith that he'll be good. Don't know who it was in this thread that said that he has been highly recommended and rated at successful clubs as opposed to Rohde, but that says it all.

Rohde was a Buffy that no one had even heard of. McCartney has been raved about from all quarters at Geelong and Essendon.

In summary: please be patient and give him time!

 

[dogwatch]

Why, Dogwatch, why would it have to automatically have been another Bulldogs player?

Guido, I won't respond to all your other points because we are not that far apart really. We both want the club to have a strong player retention strategy (unless of course they are duds!!) and we both strongly believe in developing our own players through the draft.

Just on the Ward / Wood / Roughead thing though ... Sheedy was always going to raid us because we were seen as financially vulnerable. If we had paid overs for Ward we would not have enough to protect the next target, or if we did we certainly wouldn't have enough to protect the third target and so on. Death of a thousand cuts - progressively weakened until we had to give up one of them. And worse still, we'd be hamstrung in future years if we had decided to pay 2-3 players over their worth just to retain them.

GWS learned heaps from watching GCS the year before and they did a lot of clever planning. They are already looking the better side because of it.

 

[TempleKelvington]

We have had a drop off in skill in part due to who we now have playing and in part because I reckon our training focus has been more about the contest and game plan this year. Only so many hours in a day.

We need to add guys with foot skills and we need to work on skills and goal kicking this pre season.

I think the work put in this year will be built on in years to come and this foundation has meant we have had to go back a bit to go forward. The early indicators were that we have the ability to win a contest, we can get the ball inside 50 enough. This focus has worn them out I suspect. All that work for so little return on the scoreboard. May have shaken their belief that if they work hard, win the contest they will win more than they lose. But of course, you still need to finish the hard work with goals, and right now we don't have the cattle who can catch in the F50 or when they do convert.

I get the feeling that Macca is working to a plan. Certainly he's giving some young talls plenty of opportunity......I expect to see several more given some opportunity in the coming weeks.....we'll see.

 

[Dogs54]

Way to early to assess Macca's overall performance.

My assessment criteria are for the coach are:
1. Strategy. The coach develops the strategy for how the team will play. It is fair to say that Macca is about changing to a contested ball strategy and we will have to wait to assess the next phase whatever that may be.

2. Structure. The team needs the structure to deliver the strategy. This is about how the midfield, backline and forward line is set up. The structure is struggling and it is hard to assess if it is by design or players not following\understanding the correct structure.

3. Players. You need the players to deliver on the structure and I think this our main problem. Macca will have a chance to address at the end of the season with delistings and recruitment. We will then have greater insight into him and the chance to further assess his performance.


He speaks the right language, has the confidence of the players (according to Luke Darcy), doesn't lose his cool and is about educating our players.

For me his interim test is to restore team confidence because at the moment it is rock bottom.

 

[_Mike_]

It would be completely unrealistic to have expected McCartney to walk right into a new club and make them competetive overnight. You work with what you have within the limits of the rules.

If we could draft whenever we wanted, the situation might be different.

Like it or not but truth be told I think we have suffered badly in the midfield with the loss of Ward. That leg speed and pairing with Griffen is sorely missed, but thats history now.

 

[Westie1969]

I believe that although I do have some doubts about BM - I still at the moment believe in him in the mid term. I think we will need to see how things are going about this time next year - if there is no noticeable improvement - then I think we can then start calling for his head.

I think his game plan of initially teaching players about contested ball & best positioning to get this as well as defend is sound - the next point will be once this is taught thorougly - is how the players then best use the ball. Disposal efficiency should therefore be the next phase to be taught to the players.

It's a simple thing really - first - learn to get the ball - then secondly learn to use the ball!

 

[Bodicifer]

I was thinking about this and what I've come up with is this...McCartney can coach and what he is doing is breaking us down to build us back up, with a tougher edge. Unfortunately we have to go through the shit times again to have the good times in the future. Look at Collingwood after their beltings by Brisbane in the early noughties they went down hill fast then came back stronger than ever.

 

[acker]

Tactically on matchday, I don't think he's in the top group of coaches, but an exceptional assistant can fix that quick smart.

Agree and if you notice Gridiron, Basketball + Soccer Head Coaches coach from the sidelines, interesting McCartney said while being interviewed at Quarter Time against the Bombers he came down to the boundary so he could look some under performing midfielders directly in the eye during their interchange breaks.

Tactically they did make a change and moved Picken onto Jobe Watson who had got almost half his game 30 possessions prior to Quarter Time

Other than put 16 of our players behind the Essendon attacking 50 meter arc like some of Plough's mammoth floods I don't know what else was offer tactically as the biggest problem was most of the Bulldogs players did not have the leg speed to catch hardly any of the Bombers players.

List management, we have to wait and see, but if he starts throwing draft picks around on cast offs, then I'm off his bandwagon.

Using draft picks on cast offs is something that should only come into play if we are in a position to take the flag in the short term.

Some times a target player for a positional deficiency comes but that is best done on a case by case basis.

Even Judd has failed to reach his West Coast form since being at Carlton.

Usually players that are really valued by a club are held onto - somehow they find a deal for the ones they want to keep the most.

 

[BWFC]

I don't think anyone was expecting us to do much better than we have been. We were up the top for years, we tried for a premiership one last time and we failed, now we have to go down again.

When Rodney Eade was sacked the president of the club said on numerous occasions that we didn't need a full rebuild, rather a refresh. He repeated it again around the time of McCartney's appointment. So how can you say no one expected us to be doing any better? St.Kilda were up longer than us and they haven't dropped away like we have.

 

[_Mike_]

When Rodney Eade was sacked the president of the club said on numerous occasions that we didn't need a full rebuild, rather a refresh. He repeated it again around the time of McCartney's appointment. So how can you say no one expected us to be doing any better? St.Kilda were up longer than us and they haven't dropped away like we have.

Obvious gap between reality and what he believes.

 

[acker]

When Rodney Eade was sacked the president of the club said on numerous occasions that we didn't need a full rebuild, rather a refresh. He repeated it again around the time of McCartney's appointment. So how can you say no one expected us to be doing any better? St.Kilda were up longer than us and they haven't dropped away like we have.

There was a bit of time between Rocket being sacked and McCartney being hired

That was a big comment by Smorgo considering Barry Hall was about to retire and many of our players are on the wrong side of 28

 

[Igloo]

When Rodney Eade was sacked the president of the club said on numerous occasions that we didn't need a full rebuild, rather a refresh. He repeated it again around the time of McCartney's appointment. So how can you say no one expected us to be doing any better? St.Kilda were up longer than us and they haven't dropped away like we have.

Since when is the president involved in things such as list management, gameplan, team selection, pretty much anything to do with the running of the team? Never. So of course he's going to say that, so a whole heap of bandwagon members don't just jump off.

Did you honestly think we would be up around the top 8 again?

 

[BWFC]

Did you honestly think we would be up around the top 8 again?

The question I'd ask is did I expect us to be the worst Victorian team after 13 or so weeks? Did I expect St.Kilda to be so far ahead of us? We're in free fall right now make no mistake. The performances the last few weeks have been substandard and have cost this club members. The coach may not be totally responsible but he has to take some credit. We need a leader right now.

 

[Igloo]

The question I'd ask is did I expect us to be the worst Victorian team after 13 or so weeks? Did I expect St.Kilda to be so far ahead of us? We're in free fall right now make no mistake. The performances the last few weeks have been substandard and have cost this club members. The coach may not be totally responsible but he has to take some credit. We need a leader right now.

Melbourne are worse than us. Easily. Maybe not on form right now, but overall, they are.
He can only do so much with the cattle he has. He's been there for 5 minutes, so he hasn't had any power over choosing who is actually at the club.

In regard to needing a leader, what would you have in mind? Who could possibly to anything to change the fact that we are down near the bottom of the ladder, and are going to be for a little while, while our team develops, we bring in new people, and what could they do?
Brendan has been saying all the right things. There's only so much he can control on field.

 

[doggies ftw]

St Kilda and the Swans both destroyed us in the midfield by simply having outside riders and putting extreme pressure on our inside midfielders, the result being when we cleared the scrimage it was a scrappy kick forward, when the opposition cleared the ball their outide runners killed us.

We continue to be the slowest side in the AFL, with the exception of Griffin, Dahlhouse, Wood and Murphy we have no-one to carry the ball.

We have a tall forward line yet don't effectively kick the ball to their advantage.

Love this bit, so its Brendans fault that we are the slowest side in the AFL

Its Brendans fault that we dont kick to the advantage of our tall forward line, I'm sure he tells the players to kick to our forward lines disadvantage

 

[Footscrazy]

I really think people are forgetting how bad we used to be defensively. Eade is a great gameday coach but always relied on our best defenders to keep the scoreboard managable, evident in how much we missed Lake last year. BM has come in and changed that in less than 6 months. We still don't have 2 of our best 3 defenders in Morris and Williams.

Regarding BWFC's call, Melbourne are playing alright at the moment, but they were seriously bad in the first 10 weeks. Most VFL teams would've beat them.

 

[acker]

Cripes I think it was only 2 years ago West Coast finished 2nd last

 

[Bulldogsnm1]

Love this bit, so its Brendans fault that we are the slowest side in the AFL

Try this side, all available last weekend.
B Murphy Lake Higgins
HB Howard Markovic Gilbee
C Wood Dahlhous Tutt
HF Moles Jones Sherman
FF Cooney Dickson Wallis
R Minson Boyd Griffin
INT Cross Hargrave Liberatore
Cordy

Of course the coach can make the side faster, depending on who he picks. Doesn't necessarily mean better but is a lot quicker.

Its Brendans fault that we dont kick to the advantage of our tall forward line, I'm sure he tells the players to kick to our forward lines disadvantage

It would be a lot better kicking side with Gilbee and Tutt in the side.

 

[acker]

It would be a lot better kicking side with Gilbee and Tutt in the side.

A lot of the players in that side used to be better kicks 4 years ago - unfortunately as they have aged, a few of them as well as losing pace have also lost accuracy and penetration with disposal - probably the main reason they have is because they lost pace and now get put under pressure more often because they lost it

 

[Bulldogsnm1]

A lot of the players in that side used to be better kicks 4 years ago - unfortunately as they have aged, a few of them as well as losing pace have also lost accuracy and penetration with disposal - probably the main reason they have is because they lost pace and now get put under pressure more often because they lost it

Yes what you say is very true, Rohan Smith in his last year was a perfect example of that.

And I agree that Gilbee & Cooney in particular have lost penetration in their kicking. However the point i was making is that a coach can make a side quicker, playing 3 Campbell, Cordy and Roughhead in the same side automatically will make you slower. By adding players like Tutt & Moles and playing the one tall on the ground you do improve the pace of your side.

And on Gilbee although he may have lost a couple metres in his kicking, I would still rather him be doing the kickout than Murphy or lake. We can then use them as the 1st or 2nd receiver.

 

[Dazb86]

The only issue I have with Mcartney at the moment is at the start of the year he said he'd play players for team balance and not pick favourites.

He's been way off the mark on the team balance issue.

Which brings me to my next question. Is a team with a good balance of players better than a side with more talented players that don't fit the balance?

Ie: a midfield of Boyd, Griffen, Wallis, Libba, Picken, Sherman and Djekuerra.

Vs

a midfield of Boyd, Griffen, Wallis, Libba, Picken, cross and Smith.

 

[Testekill]

The only issue I have with Mcartney at the moment is at the start of the year he said he'd play players for team balance and not pick favourites.

He's been way off the mark on the team balance issue.

Which brings me to my next question. Is a team with a good balance of players better than a side with more talented players that don't fit the balance?

Ie: a midfield of Boyd, Griffen, Wallis, Libba, Picken, Sherman and Djekuerra.

Vs

a midfield of Boyd, Griffen, Wallis, Libba, Picken, cross and Smith.

It should nearly always be in favor of team balance. The first team gives three inside mids, three outside mids and one tagger whereas the second is almost entirely inside. So you're bang on the money there.

 

[Leon]

Cripes I think it was only 2 years ago West Coast finished 2nd last

Last actually.