List Mgmt. Oscar Allen Free Agency

[Astro7]

Inmho, I'm not bothered if Oscar leaves (like Harley). It means good draft picks which will help our rebuild sooner with quality players. If they both stay that's also fine.
Oscar seems prone to injury and unlike Kennedy and Waterman, often looks like a baby giraffe in full flight. As always there's a lot of emotions,insinuation, twisted perceptions and false narratives being bled into Oscar's current situation. Presumably no-one actually knows the truth about anything.

 

[Obeanie1]

Think the AFL world is a little sensitive with FA, and how it works.

• Hawks are doing what is best for them, I applaud them and this is want arrogant clubs should do. We used to be a big arrogant club!
• Ozzie is doing what is best for him, and it is his right. He was just caught, which was a mistake.
• Eagles must do what is best for them, hold firm on contract negotiations, and do exactly what the Hawks are doing. Throw your ****ing weight around the comp and target who we want and if this means Hawk players like Ward, Meek then do it.

Players should be professional enough to play on, but I have a feeling this is impacting Ozzie's form. This should go two ways, like the royal family, say nothing, dont respond and keep it moving.

If there is some angst because Ozzie made a poor choice in being caught in such a scenario, then step out, take responsibility, and ensure, as a player of this club, that you do whatever you can in the season to earn respect through blood, sweat, and tears.

Although the best result is that he leaves and we get pick 2 or 3, depending on where we finish. I recall only two seasons ago, every media outlet was reviewing our list to see who could be moved on, so we fast-tracked the rebuild. The hypocrisy of this game is silly.....

And all that can occur without the media sh!t fight this has now created.

In season.

Takes two to tango. A club and the player. Both are in the wrong meeting in season and doing this publically.

 

[Obeanie1]

Inmho, I'm not bothered if Oscar leaves (like Harley). It means good draft picks which will help our rebuild sooner with quality players. If they both stay that's also fine.
Oscar seems prone to injury and unlike Kennedy and Waterman, often looks like a baby giraffe in full flight. As always there's a lot of emotions,insinuation, twisted perceptions and false narratives being bled into Oscar's current situation. Presumably no-one actually knows the truth about anything.

Agreed. If players don't want to be here then just go. We get picks and trade in or draft players who do want to be here.

If both Harley and Oscar move we will end up with a similar first round draft hand as Richmond last year. For a forward with a degenerative knee issue and a kid who the Vic media are hounding to return.

We just move on and get on with it with players who want to be here.

 

[Avalor]

There is already a pile of dirt - Embley's wife if I'm not mistaken. That's why Sam had to skip out of town. His missus laid down the law. Back to Melbourne or divorce - you choose, Sam. So off he went. Contract broken!

 

[Bacchus]

He'd only leave for a bigger/longer contract than what we're offering and in that case we'd be compensated with a high band pick so we don't need to worry too much about that.

I am worried about this with the lack of transparency and arbitrariness in the way the AFL decides on compensations.
They are are just as likely to make it the end of first round or something with no explanation.

They are a law unto themselves and we hardly have any serious support in the Vic media.

Everyone is assuming a high first round draft pick. I wouldn’t be surprised if we were kicked in the teeth and Ben Mackay was rated higher than Allen. What a joke. Ha ha.

 

[Bacchus]

Inmho, I'm not bothered if Oscar leaves (like Harley). It means good draft picks which will help our rebuild sooner with quality players. If they both stay that's also fine.
Oscar seems prone to injury and unlike Kennedy and Waterman, often looks like a baby giraffe in full flight. As always there's a lot of emotions,insinuation, twisted perceptions and false narratives being bled into Oscar's current situation. Presumably no-one actually knows the truth about anything.

Some people would know but they’re not speaking.

 

[Obeanie1]

I am worried about this with the lack of transparency and arbitrariness in the way the AFL decides on compensations.
They are are just as likely to make it the end of first round or something with no explanation.

They are a law unto themselves and we hardly have any serious support in the Vic media.

Everyone is assuming a high first round draft pick. I wouldn’t be surprised if we were kicked in the teeth and Ben Mackay was rated higher than Allen. What a joke. Ha ha.

Band 1 for Allen puts off any need for priority picks for another 12 months.

It's what the AFL does..........for Vic sides anyway.

 

[WCE777]

I can't help but think that maybe the club has told him they're not going to budge on the contract any more. I mean his leadership seems very passive and he isnt durable.

But I recon the most important consideration is what type of player is he....he is the icing on the cake type player, the missing piece of the jigsaw. The exact piece of the pie a contender needs. If you look at the teams that are contending but can't get it done, the hole in their list is almost always the key forward that balance up the forward structure.

Screaming for oscar
Hawks
Pies
Dees
Swans


The engine room is what gets teams out of the mid table into the final 8.
Crows
Freo
Hawks
Pies
GWS
Swans


For us, I don't actually think he is as required as his contract would suggest. Retaining reid and gaining Warner, and getting another couple top 10 midfielders is our priority. Winning the ball and keeping in our half is the priority, Allen doesn't help that one bit.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

Totally agree with your thoughts on the club has told him they have their final offer on the table, which is significant.

I still think he is a required player, if in 3 years the next generation of KFWDS in JW, A Reid, Shanahan progress enough that he isn't a require player you sell him to the highest bidder or the asset below him.

I also think the club has come to the realisation that our midfield is poor last year, and are happy to used the compo if Oscar leaves on someone in the draft and trade period to improve an area that needs work like you mention.

I think it is an assets based decision, do we keep Oscar, yes, do we rebuild our midfield with some of the compo if he leaves, yes.

I am in the group that thinks he is a required player, very good KFWD, co-captain, behind closed doors he is very highly regarded by players and club, WC through and through.

I get we will get highly compensated if he leaves, pick 2-3 and that will get a high end midfielder in the draft or more than half a Warner.

The club is in the position of do we take an extra year or 2 in the rebuild with our draft assets and Oscar compo this year and go hard at the draft, or can we make do with our draft assets and do both, bring in Warner and get high end picks for required list needs, midfield and KDEF with 2025/26/27 draft capital and salary cap space.

I also think it shows we have a ceiling on what we think is reasonable and that is also good football business.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Why is nobody ever meeting with Tim Kelly

 

[Yeahnahmate]

I’d also noticed he’d not done any of the pressers or media since he spoke at the season launch which is strange as a co-captain. It’s all been Duggan, Mini, others.

Might have been thinking out since early days of Mini coming on?

Lots of talent and lots of reasons why - but the fact he is captain (as a forward who has never strung much consistency together) is crazy anyway.

Imagine the excuse of being behind JK & Darling and then when you are out Waterman smashes anything you’ve ever done in your career. Hates being second fiddle and rarely plays like first fiddle anyway. Looks sad and whinges constantly on the park

If we can get good compo it’s better for the future of the side and not to mention our current leadership that he goes.

 

[Barrybran]

I’d also noticed he’d not done any of the pressers or media since he spoke at the season launch which is strange as a co-captain. It’s all been Duggan, Mini, others.

Might have been thinking out since early days of Mini coming on?

Lots of talent and lots of reasons why - but the fact he is captain (as a forward who has never strung much consistency together) is crazy anyway.

Imagine the excuse of being behind JK & Darling and then when you are out Waterman smashes anything you’ve ever done in your career. Hates being second fiddle and rarely plays like first fiddle anyway. Looks sad and whinges constantly on the park

If we can get good compo it’s better for the future of the side and not to mention our current leadership that he goes.

View attachment 2269586

I've seen a couple of references to stats now. Oscar was sitting behind Kennedy and Darling until 2023, when he broke out. Waterman was behind Darling and Oscar until 2024, when he broke out. Let's not rewrite history here. Oscar and Snake are our Curnow and McKay. Every club outside of Carlton would love to have one of those two, which is why Waterman was being courted last year and Allen is being courted this year.

 

[WCE777]

Think the AFL world is a little sensitive with FA, and how it works.

• Hawks are doing what is best for them, I applaud them and this is want arrogant clubs should do. We used to be a big arrogant club!
• Ozzie is doing what is best for him, and it is his right. He was just caught, which was a mistake.
• Eagles must do what is best for them, hold firm on contract negotiations, and do exactly what the Hawks are doing. Throw your ****ing weight around the comp and target who we want and if this means Hawk players like Ward, Meek then do it.

Players should be professional enough to play on, but I have a feeling this is impacting Ozzie's form. This should go two ways, like the royal family, say nothing, dont respond and keep it moving.

If there is some angst because Ozzie made a poor choice in being caught in such a scenario, then step out, take responsibility, and ensure, as a player of this club, that you do whatever you can in the season to earn respect through blood, sweat, and tears.

Although the best result is that he leaves and we get pick 2 or 3, depending on where we finish. I recall only two seasons ago, every media outlet was reviewing our list to see who could be moved on, so we fast-tracked the rebuild. The hypocrisy of this game is silly.....

Agree with everything you have mentioned in 1st 3 points.

WC should throw an offer at Ward, they tried to get Meek before he left but wanted to return to Vic, but get hold of his manager and mention we are in the market for a ruckman and this is our offer $$, make Hawks pay a little more.

Ward should be the next priority after Warner, throw a decent offer as he would be a great addition to our club, B grade mid at worst and upside and 4th mid behind Warner/Reid/Yeo.

I prefer Oscar to stay and we do the Warner deal, use our 1st pick on the best mid and target Ward.
Use our 2025/26/27 draft assets if we have too to land another player or draftee who is a list need.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

gifted a 3 peat more like
pretty sure Buddy wanted out because of all the red neck racists at horethorn

Buddy left for love, money and more premierships.

Clearly the love and pay worked out for him. Still only a Hawthorn 2x Premiership player!

As for your racism comment, Buddy has never mentioned any such concerns. The same for Bateman, Burgoyne and Hill, sadly pleasing everyone is impossible….

Every club has this skeleton in their closet! It is somewhat in the eye of the beholder, which makes it even more complex.
Rioli and co were heard and compensated accordingly.

One can only hope the learnings lead to improved polices and healing.

Edit : I’ve left this part of this post because it’s valid and addresses the quoted post fairly

The other bits have been deleted because they weren’t necessary

What’s left I consider an example of a post I’m happy to see from an opposition supporter which is why I’ve not deleted it entirely - only removing the rubbish

Visiting posters take note - I’m not in a mood to be particularly hospitable - Keys

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

x

Totally agree with your thoughts on the club has told him they have their final offer on the table, which is significant.

I still think he is a required player, if in 3 years the next generation of KFWDS in JW, A Reid, Shanahan progress enough that he isn't a require player you sell him to the highest bidder or the asset below him.

So you give up on a top 2-3 draft pick to finish bottom four, while waiting for our young KPP to develop to then trad Oscar for a token pick?

In what world is it preferable to have two KPF in their prime, developing young talls and no midfield

I also think the club has come to the realisation that our midfield is poor last year, and are happy to used the compo if Oscar leaves on someone in the draft and trade period to improve an area that needs work like you mention.

I think it is an assets based decision, do we keep Oscar, yes, do we rebuild our midfield with some of the compo if he leaves, yes.

Sound logic here. Agree with most of it. However this is not new. In 2022 Simmo was asked about draft priorities and he said "mids, mids, mids".

The only player drafted since then who is a bonafide mid, is Harley - if you can even call him that as this stage, rather than a pinch hitter while building his fitness.

I am in the group that thinks he is a required player, very good KFWD, co-captain, behind closed doors he is very highly regarded by players and club, WC through and through. The club is in the position of do we take an extra year or 2 in the rebuild with our draft assets and Oscar compo this year and go hard at the draft, or can we make do with our draft assets and do both, bring in Warner and get high end picks for required list needs, midfield and KDEF with 2025/26/27 draft capital and salary cap space.

I also think it shows we have a ceiling on what we think is reasonable and that is also good football business.

By the life of me, I can't understand how you get from the above two statements and this is your conclusion on Oscar.

Oscar is a perma injured KPF who plays in a position we have depth across age our age profile. If Oscar goes, we'll still have an AA calibre forward and young forwards developing. No team has this kind of KPF depth.

By contrast, we are four midfielders short of a midfield. On the weekend we had Graham (hff), Baker (dbf), Harley (mid-forward) and Kelly (mid/forward) and our main mids. Not one of those players is a pure midfielder. Harley might become that, but isn't. Baker and Graham spent most their time as flankers, and this board has spoken at length FOR YEARS that Kelly is mid-forward and not a pure midfielder.

Oscar leaving allows us to rebalance our list and reposition assets to where they're needed.

 

[Doashuey]

I personally think the blame for this meeting with Mitchell should be with his manager.
OA is unfortunately a timid individual, who is allowing others to lead him down this path.
I'm sure his manager was in his ear a week or two ago, and suggested a meeting during the Hawks' bye.

OA was too gutless to call off the meeting despite the poor optics and his poor showing in the derby.
His management might have also deliberately leaked it.
And now he's got to face the music.
I don't envy how he's going to feel for the rest of the year.
Doing this at Round 3 makes for a very long season for him.

If this is the case then what TF is he doing as Captain of the footy club?

I dont think this is the case and it is just shifting blame. No doubt his manager was in his ear- they are parasitic, but it is his career and his decision. Don't for a second think that he didn't understand the possible consequences and impact on team cohesion from such a move.

He made his bed, he can sleep in the pissy sheets.

 

[stallon]

Sound logic here. Agree with most of it. However this is not new. In 2022 Simmo was asked about draft priorities and he said "mids, mids, mids".

The only player drafted since then who is a bonafide mid, is Harley - if you can even call him that as this stage, rather than a pinch hitter while building his fitness.

We have drafted what we expected to be 4 genuine mids with first round picks between 2021 and 2023, then last year we took Allan who we may believe to be a mid too.
Thats 4-5 guys drafted as actual mids in the top 16 picks over 4 seasons

Not just 1

Just because they dont end up as full time mids in their first couple of seasons doesnt mean theyre not mids

 

[DJMac]

Why is nobody ever meeting with Tim Kelly

They have tried to but he didn’t show up.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

We have drafted what we expected to be 4 genuine mids with first round picks between 2021 and 2023, then last year we took Allan who we may believe to be a mid too.
Thats 4-5 guys drafted as actual mids in the top 16 picks over 4 seasons

Not just 1

Just because they dont end up as full time mids in their first couple of seasons doesnt mean theyre not mids

The statement holds true. 3 national drafts have passed since Simpson said that "mids, mids, mids" comment and yet our starting midfield on the weekend was Graham, Baker, Kelly and Reid who was sent to hb.

It doesn't matter if Ginbey was drafted as a mid, or Hewett was injured etc etc etc. We have the worst starting midfield in the comp, and it's not because it's young, it's because none are legitimate midfielders, and despite being down the bottom, we don't have players on our list to replace them.

That's quite a feat of incompetence.

Hawthorn turned over their midfield in 3 drafts. 2019-2022 the drafted Day (2019), Newcombe (2021) and McKenzie (2022). They already had Worpel and they replace Mitchell and O'Meara after 2022.

In 2023 their midfield was not 'good', it was young and developing.

3 years in, we're still in the old and bad phase.

 

[DanWCE]

Looks like our next chapter lasted only 3 rounds. Oscar should have been in a Hawks or Brisbane jumper.

View attachment 2269462

Edited for marketing?

 

[lmach]

Out: Allen (C)
In: Gross (C)

 

[stallon]

The statement holds true. 3 national drafts have passed since Simpson said that "mids, mids, mids" comment and yet our starting midfield on the weekend was Graham, Baker, Kelly and Reid who was sent to hb.

It doesn't matter if Ginbey was drafted as a mid, or Hewett was injured etc etc etc. We have the worst starting midfield in the comp, and it's not because it's young, it's because none are legitimate midfielders, and despite being down the bottom, we don't have players on our list to replace them.

That's quite a feat of incompetence.

Hawthorn turned over their midfield in 3 drafts. 2019-2022 the drafted Day (2019), Newcombe (2021) and McKenzie (2022). They already had Worpel and they replace Mitchell and O'Meara after 2022.

In 2023 their midfield was not 'good', it was young and developing.

3 years in, we're still in the old and bad phase.

It's not incompetence that Hewett missed last year.
It's not incompetence that Ginbey the u18 AA omballer turned out to be way better at half back.
Chesser was a pick 14 and is constantly injured, no idea if that's something the previous s+c staff had any impact on.

You said we have drafted 1 mid in 4 years.
That's just false, we have drafted 4 maybe 5 with first round picks

 

[eagleskickass]

Edited for marketing?

View attachment 2269630

Even he's looking East...

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

It's not incompetence that Hewett missed last year.
It's not incompetence that Ginbey the u18 AA omballer turned out to be way better at half back.
Chesser was a pick 14 and is constantly injured, no idea if that's something the previous s+c staff had any impact on.

You said we have drafted 1 mid in 4 years.
That's just false, we have drafted 4 maybe 5 with first round picks

The way in which each of those situations can be rationalised away is irrelevant.

I never said we drafted one mid in four years, I sad a bonafide mid - bonafide = genuine/real.

Simmo said "mids mids mids" - three years later, only one player from the players we drafted is a regular midfield rotation. Considering our midfield is 18th that's damning. It's certainly not the strength of our midfield that is keeping young players out.

3 years of drafting with the explicit intent of turning over the midfield, and the end result is a starting midfield of Baker, Graham, Kelly with Harley running through there.

That's just shocking.

 

[Yeahnahmate]

I've seen a couple of references to stats now. Oscar was sitting behind Kennedy and Darling until 2023, when he broke out. Waterman was behind Darling and Oscar until 2024, when he broke out. Let's not rewrite history here. Oscar and Snake are our Curnow and McKay. Every club outside of Carlton would love to have one of those two, which is why Waterman was being courted last year and Allen is being courted this year.

Putting his actual stats up is ‘rewriting history’ is it, hahaha. I mentioned Darling and JK (retired ‘22) in my post.

He’s had one season over 30 goals. If he was being anything like Curnow or McKay he’d be doing far more than that at only 2yrs their junior.

He’d struggle to be a top 10 fwd in the league, not to mention his durability issues

 

[Scotland]

It's not incompetence that Hewett missed last year.
It's not incompetence that Ginbey the u18 AA omballer turned out to be way better at half back.
Chesser was a pick 14 and is constantly injured, no idea if that's something the previous s+c staff had any impact on.

You said we have drafted 1 mid in 4 years.
That's just false, we have drafted 4 maybe 5 with first round picks

Is it incompetence to win 10 games in 3 years and use picks 9 & 14, 1 and 16 in successive drafts?