Agree totally reset of the list, also some big $ under performers, going to be a tough year tonight was embarrassing.
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List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃
- Thread starter Aphrodite
- Start date
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- Mar 25, 2019
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Obviously overreacting to that insipid performance... But this is essentially the future of our list.
Jack Ison - Jacob Weitering - Lachie Cowan
????????? - Harry O'Farrell - ?????????
Sam Walsh - Adam Cerra - Lucas Camporeale
????????? - Charlie Curnow - ?????????
????????? - Harry McKay - ?????????
Tom De Koning - Jagga Smith - Cody Walker
Ben Camporeale - Cooper Lord - ???????? - ???????
Everyone else is fair game imo (Outside of Cripps obviously but he's probably only got 3-4 years of good footy left at best you'd think).
Would love to say there's more on that list but they were so bloody putrid tonight I would gladly see the back of the lot of them after losing to the Tigers how we did.
We need to find a way to fill every one of those questions marks with speed, foot skills and actual footy IQ. The current list has absolutely none of any of that it seems.
Jack Ison - Jacob Weitering - Lachie Cowan
????????? - Harry O'Farrell - ?????????
Sam Walsh - Adam Cerra - Lucas Camporeale
????????? - Charlie Curnow - ?????????
????????? - Harry McKay - ?????????
Tom De Koning - Jagga Smith - Cody Walker
Ben Camporeale - Cooper Lord - ???????? - ???????
Everyone else is fair game imo (Outside of Cripps obviously but he's probably only got 3-4 years of good footy left at best you'd think).
Would love to say there's more on that list but they were so bloody putrid tonight I would gladly see the back of the lot of them after losing to the Tigers how we did.
We need to find a way to fill every one of those questions marks with speed, foot skills and actual footy IQ. The current list has absolutely none of any of that it seems.
Beyond Blue
Premiership Player
- Jun 25, 2021
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It’s one of the worst group of small forwards in the league currently and has been so for years. A busted version of Fanta and converted small back Williams are our best options.
This is why our players end up bombing it long to Harry and Charlie. Opposition teams don’t even bother manning the likes of Fogarty, Motlop, Durdin and now Evans. There is no goal threat so defenders sag off them to block leading space for Charlie and Harry and/or be the help defender. Every team does it. Stop H & C and who else is going to score? Then to add salt to the wound Austin lets the one bloke who did kick a few goals walk out the door at the end of last year.
Between this and the lack of a key defender which has also been a problem for years (since Jones left) I think Austin has done a lousy job. I suspect he’s gone once Wright takes over.
- Mar 25, 2019
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Every other team is basing their game plan around pushing their small forwards up the ground and being creative users up the field to allow them to maximize their speed and ability to create turnover. We're stuck having big brutish inside mids bomb the ball because none of our small forwards could buy a touch in a massage parlour.
The 2nd key back issue is tough to address, good ones cost a lot of capital and cap space and we've been limited with it recently.
The small forward issue is unforgivable. Teams like Brisbane and Geelong genuinely have 5 or 6 options better than our best ones.
With a new CEO end of year and potentially a new coach, l suspect there will be a significant change of direction in list management.
Also alot of under performing highly paid players, Zac Williams gee one of our worst buys in history, older players Saad & McGovern & others, Hope l am wrong but Walsh is not the same player as 2 years, has no hurt factor in his game & possessions now.
l am expecting some tough decisions in many areas at year end.
We now have the exposed form of last year and last night. It is clear this squad isn't even close to being a grand final contender. Next steps are a bold approach which essentially means anyone over 27 is up for trade, we need to get back into the draft urgently in a major way.
The alternative is to spend the next 4 years 8 to 14 with no hope of achieving anything.
The current list lacks speed and skill and our bottom 6 any given week are worse than the opposition.
We have to much salary cap going to few.
The alternative is to spend the next 4 years 8 to 14 with no hope of achieving anything.
The current list lacks speed and skill and our bottom 6 any given week are worse than the opposition.
We have to much salary cap going to few.
What would Nakervis earn, I don't see much difference in output.
- Sep 30, 2014
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I’d hope we look at getting Reid.
There’s plenty of dead wood in this team to move on.
Blues Supporters continue to believe our players are better than what they are.
Sometimes u need to give to get what u need.
Houston should’ve been signed, because it was what we needed.
A key position back, not a 33yr old veteran….
We went hard for jagga, but nothing else..ridiculous list management.
There’s plenty of dead wood in this team to move on.
Blues Supporters continue to believe our players are better than what they are.
Sometimes u need to give to get what u need.
Houston should’ve been signed, because it was what we needed.
A key position back, not a 33yr old veteran….
We went hard for jagga, but nothing else..ridiculous list management.
bradfisher14
Not actually Brad Fisher
I would be on the phone to Brisbane to see what we can get from them in exchange for McKay.
We can't compete with this list as it currently sits. Getting rid of him will get us some draft capital and free up a bunch of cap space. We can then use those resources to target players that will fix our issues.
We can't compete with this list as it currently sits. Getting rid of him will get us some draft capital and free up a bunch of cap space. We can then use those resources to target players that will fix our issues.
BluStreak
Norm Smith Medallist
To those contributors who have suggested McKay to CHB, my apologies.
It may be the thing to do.
As a forward he can kick alot of goals but he is out muscled every single game.
He is an athlete who can motor up and back from CHB.
I believe he could match it with the likes of Cameron (geel)
It may be the thing to do.
As a forward he can kick alot of goals but he is out muscled every single game.
He is an athlete who can motor up and back from CHB.
I believe he could match it with the likes of Cameron (geel)
Very disappointing loss and I think if puts a magnifying glass and spotlight on our biggest issue. The cattle actually isn't that good. We have an elite spine and maybe the best overall top 5 in the league, but, our bottom 5-10 would have to be up there for the worst in the league.
We've been a little soft on the list because we like a lot of the guys, but so many really just aren't up to it and that was exposed last night badly.
A way I approached it last night in my grumpy mood, who of these guys are playing consistently in actual top 4, even top 8 sides, but are getting consistent games for us?
Cottrell
Kemp
Lord
Hollands
Motlop
Fogarty
Williams
Evans (not consistent, yet, but being picked for rd 1 is a statement imo)
Hanyes (See Evans, + the plan was clearly for him to be a back 6 starter)
Docherty (pains me to say, maybe can play a role but remains to be seen)
To be frank I think 0 of them are playing in top 4 sides consistently. Maybe 1 or 2 play in bottom 4 of the top 8, Cottrell perhaps as a depth winger in the right circumstances. Kemp similar as a depth defender perhaps. That's about it, and they're depth/rotation players not starters.
For too long we've been propped up by our stars. The media has talked about it, we've dismissed it as being disrespectful to our list (which fans rightly do), but it turns out that's correct. Get outside our top 6 or 7 players and it's not a great group.
We've been a little soft on the list because we like a lot of the guys, but so many really just aren't up to it and that was exposed last night badly.
A way I approached it last night in my grumpy mood, who of these guys are playing consistently in actual top 4, even top 8 sides, but are getting consistent games for us?
Cottrell
Kemp
Lord
Hollands
Motlop
Fogarty
Williams
Evans (not consistent, yet, but being picked for rd 1 is a statement imo)
Hanyes (See Evans, + the plan was clearly for him to be a back 6 starter)
Docherty (pains me to say, maybe can play a role but remains to be seen)
To be frank I think 0 of them are playing in top 4 sides consistently. Maybe 1 or 2 play in bottom 4 of the top 8, Cottrell perhaps as a depth winger in the right circumstances. Kemp similar as a depth defender perhaps. That's about it, and they're depth/rotation players not starters.
For too long we've been propped up by our stars. The media has talked about it, we've dismissed it as being disrespectful to our list (which fans rightly do), but it turns out that's correct. Get outside our top 6 or 7 players and it's not a great group.
Beyond Blue
Premiership Player
- Jun 25, 2021
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The more I think about it the more I think this might be the way to go. Harry can’t handle the pressure of kicking for goal. I was absolutely mortified watching him kick a snap for a set shot 20 metres out directly in front against the Saints in the match sim.
I have long thought McGovern is a liability down back. His first ever act as a defender was to drop a mark that led to a Dusty Martin goal. He won’t put his body on the line for the team. Send him forward for one last chance to save his career.
The other player I don’t know what to do with is Kemp. I thought he was a forward but he also can’t handle the pressure of kicking for goal. He is already a failed defender so the options are running out. Personally I’d trade him at the end of the year.
Further to the above, to zoom in on a single area of the team, the forwardline man for man has to be close to worst in the league. For years it has been propped up by Charlie and McKay to make it look half decent, but as unit across the 6/7 it's just woeful.
Charlie A+
McKay B/B+. Very good no.2 tall, maybe not great as the no.1 tall.
Then it falls away drastically
Fogarty, liked by fans and team mates as a pressure forward, but as an offensive threat he's basically non existent. C, pass due to actually being good as a defensive forward, but only a C because his attacking game is poor.
Motlop, I'm sorry I don't see it with him and I never have, but the hype and talk has always made me pause on that because there must be something I'm not seeing. But to me, he's not fast, he's not super strong (he looks stout but plays weak), doesn't have great skills, is insanely one footed which with lack of quickness makes him very easy to corral for defenders, lacks effort and intensity at times, doesn't apply great pressure. D-
Williams, Defender come midfielder come defender come forward. Looks ok at times, but his lack of forward experience and craft does come through fairly often. C, pass grade as he is a goal threat at times but just not consistent with his forward craft to be a constant threat.
Cottrell, I know, he's a defensive running HFF. He bobs up for a goal now and then. We all like the guy. But similar to Fog, what does he actually offer consistently in attack? Not much. C-
Durdin, Midfielder come forward. Looks lost a lot, injury prone, don't see much in him inside 50. Love his endeavour and he clearly plays hard, but in terms of tangible results he gives very little. D-.
Kemp, Give him time, but the bad looks more than the good. The 1 good game was against maybe the worst team in 20 years. The others he's had ok moments but also lost at times. D, but with the knowledge he's learning and ideally will be 3rd tall with Charlie back so not writing him off just yet.
Evans, why was he picked again? E
Is it bad that I even struggled to get 6 or 7 into that list? We have a dearth of forward talent. It's an issue compounded by the fact that we don't have a goal scoring midfielder on the list, either. Cripps has worked into that a bit, but he almost does it as a pseudo tall forward.
Overall, we lack goal scoring threat and have been propped up by individual brilliance from the freak that is Charlie Curnow, with some able support at times from McKay. What is disappointing is that this is something we've talked about broadly for years now but there's enough games where guys just do enough that we've gone ok, maybe they're getting there... then there's games like this where you clearly see they aren't.
Charlie A+
McKay B/B+. Very good no.2 tall, maybe not great as the no.1 tall.
Then it falls away drastically
Fogarty, liked by fans and team mates as a pressure forward, but as an offensive threat he's basically non existent. C, pass due to actually being good as a defensive forward, but only a C because his attacking game is poor.
Motlop, I'm sorry I don't see it with him and I never have, but the hype and talk has always made me pause on that because there must be something I'm not seeing. But to me, he's not fast, he's not super strong (he looks stout but plays weak), doesn't have great skills, is insanely one footed which with lack of quickness makes him very easy to corral for defenders, lacks effort and intensity at times, doesn't apply great pressure. D-
Williams, Defender come midfielder come defender come forward. Looks ok at times, but his lack of forward experience and craft does come through fairly often. C, pass grade as he is a goal threat at times but just not consistent with his forward craft to be a constant threat.
Cottrell, I know, he's a defensive running HFF. He bobs up for a goal now and then. We all like the guy. But similar to Fog, what does he actually offer consistently in attack? Not much. C-
Durdin, Midfielder come forward. Looks lost a lot, injury prone, don't see much in him inside 50. Love his endeavour and he clearly plays hard, but in terms of tangible results he gives very little. D-.
Kemp, Give him time, but the bad looks more than the good. The 1 good game was against maybe the worst team in 20 years. The others he's had ok moments but also lost at times. D, but with the knowledge he's learning and ideally will be 3rd tall with Charlie back so not writing him off just yet.
Evans, why was he picked again? E
Is it bad that I even struggled to get 6 or 7 into that list? We have a dearth of forward talent. It's an issue compounded by the fact that we don't have a goal scoring midfielder on the list, either. Cripps has worked into that a bit, but he almost does it as a pseudo tall forward.
Overall, we lack goal scoring threat and have been propped up by individual brilliance from the freak that is Charlie Curnow, with some able support at times from McKay. What is disappointing is that this is something we've talked about broadly for years now but there's enough games where guys just do enough that we've gone ok, maybe they're getting there... then there's games like this where you clearly see they aren't.
JJBagger
Club Legend
- Sep 6, 2022
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While I don’t necessarily disagree with the premise of this post, a lot of our poor performances seem to generally stem from our stars and leaders either having poor games, or being unable to impact when required. To me, our bottom 8-10 aren’t the issue, it’s the experienced guys and the stars that don’t stand up when required
Playing solely off the back of our stars has been how we've played for years, the best teams have input from the 22, not just the top 5.
Who won it for Richmond? No 1 person, it was pressure and contribution from everyone. They didn't depend on 2 or 3 stars.
TENACIOUS
Premiership Player
- Aug 16, 2008
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Only my opinion of course…
Under Austin and Co, the list management hasn’t been that good.
Exceptional
Good Output
Kid / Average
Poor
Under Austin and Co, the list management hasn’t been that good.
Exceptional Good Output Kid / Average Poor| Player | Output Vs Price | Potential to get better |
| Williams | | |
| Fogarty | | |
| Saad | | |
| C.Durdin | | |
| J.Carroll | | |
| Parks | | |
| McDonald | | |
| Mirkov | | |
| Boyd | | |
| Hewett | | |
| Cerra | | |
| Young | | |
| Motlop | | |
| Cottrell | | |
| Akuei | | |
| S.Durdin | | |
| Hayes | | |
| Acres | | |
| Hollands | | |
| Cowan | | |
| Binns | | |
| Lemmey | | |
| O’Keeffe | | |
| Cincotta | | |
| Fantasia | | |
| E.Hollands | | |
| Moir | | |
| Wilson | | |
| Carroll | | |
| Monahan | | |
| Lord | | |
| Smith | | |
| O’Farrell | | |
| B.Camporeale | | |
| L.Camporeale | | |
| Charleston | | |
| Duffy | | |
| Francis | | |
| White | | |
- Aug 16, 2015
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The examples you’ve given don’t really apply in this scenario, both Dangerfield and Cameron were leaving interstate clubs and coming back to Victoria, they had no intention of staying and both weren’t leaving for more money.
The reported offer for TDK by the saints is insane, the only reason Tom would accept this move is if our offer was too low in comparison.
If we match the bid, which means we have to offer the same contract, why would he then leave?
He would accept our offer and that would cripple our cap
JustaBattler
Everyone Looks Better In Blue
- May 31, 2012
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As soon as an organisation allows an employee to dictate terms in a manner which introduces disequilibrium and uncertainty - the organisation is no longer in control of itself. This saga has to be brought to a conclusion sooner rather than later - to allow one person and their management to create uncertainty affecting so many others is negligence - sometimes it is best to accept the harsh medicine for the greater good.
Speaking of facts- neither McKay nor Curnow are worth what they are being paid and neither is Walsh - the only genuine premiership quality leaders at the Club are Weitering and Cripps - the rest are all either compromised physically or behave in mercantile fashion ...
if the Club decides it is time for a mini rebuild we have 3-4 excellent options for trade bait and large amounts of capital to redeploy as a consequence.
Williams Saad McGovern Docherty are also past their use by date and should be managed accordingly.
Speaking of facts- neither McKay nor Curnow are worth what they are being paid and neither is Walsh - the only genuine premiership quality leaders at the Club are Weitering and Cripps - the rest are all either compromised physically or behave in mercantile fashion ...
if the Club decides it is time for a mini rebuild we have 3-4 excellent options for trade bait and large amounts of capital to redeploy as a consequence.
Williams Saad McGovern Docherty are also past their use by date and should be managed accordingly.
Beyond Blue
Premiership Player
- Jun 25, 2021
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I think the biggest change to the list we need to make is the list manager.
The hits are starting to come from everywhere:
- doing a 2 for one to get Jagga when we have Cody Walker coming soon instead of taking Berry and Trainer to solve for our two biggest areas a of need
- not one success with a late draft pick or a rookie, SSP or MSD
Basically aside from getting Acres for nothing he has been a failure. The bloke is out of his depth IMO. I reckon Wright will bullet him as soon as he takes the reigns.
The hits are starting to come from everywhere:
- doing a 2 for one to get Jagga when we have Cody Walker coming soon instead of taking Berry and Trainer to solve for our two biggest areas a of need
- no second key defender since Jones forcing us to play undersized defenders or converted third forwards in the role
- the worst collection of small forwards in the league for the whole time he has been list manager and to double down he trades out our best small forward and effectively replaces him with a blokes who’s been delisted by two clubs by the age of 23
- not one success with a late draft pick or a rookie, SSP or MSD
Basically aside from getting Acres for nothing he has been a failure. The bloke is out of his depth IMO. I reckon Wright will bullet him as soon as he takes the reigns.
- Jun 6, 2012
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I find it somewhat difficult to judge individual members of the forwardline, because they're all victims of our complete lack of system up there (while also being collectively largely responsible for our lack of system up there).
Even when we controlled the ball in the first quarter - it was careful kick-mark build up until the edge of the centre square then long bomb it inside 50. The forwards desperately need an extra kick to a marking target 60m out so that they can then deliver the ball inside 50, but it needs to be a forward providing that target. If we had just one or two more forwards capable of reaching over their head and grabbing hold of a football I think several of those you've listed would look much better.
TLDR bring Moir in
There's definitely 2 sides to it for sure. The delivery is woeful, but the complete lack of anything when the ball hits the ground screams out that the smalls aren't that threatening, or defending super hard, as well.
Both are issues, the inside 50s have been an issue since Malthouse, if not even Ratten. It's insane that we've never been able to get it decent.
- Jun 6, 2012
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Thought our forward connection under Ratten was excellent, it was defensively where he struggled. We made Setanta O'Hailpin look threatening. Simpson on the wing in 2011 letting his opponent get sucked into the ball then playing almost as a spare forward was super damaging when we won the clearance.
Our use inside 50 in the 1st quarter was actually pretty good. We got 10 shots at goal.
It was our conversion that was really poor.
I think there was times were certainly missed the gun key forward, hence the prevailing belief that we may have been a Fevola away from genuine flag contenders.
But you're probably right it was very good considering we didn't really have a key forward of note, it was the smalls who did the damage and did it well. Perhaps since Malthouse is a better reference point.
Hindsight is wonderful and Jagga’s ACL is just bad luck but given last night, we should have taken multiple picks in last November’s draft rather than betting the farm on one player.
So many deficiencies on our list that cannot be easily repaired as draft capital is used up.
Of course if TDK leaves or Harry traded that changes the picture.
So many deficiencies on our list that cannot be easily repaired as draft capital is used up.
Of course if TDK leaves or Harry traded that changes the picture.
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