Europe German Federal Election, 23/02/25 - The Elontervention

[Not Important]

yes. a thousand times yes. let’s hope it’s catching. an isolated amerca = they are f**ked.

"My absolute priority will be to strengthen Europe as quickly as possible so that we can achieve... real independence from the US.

The interventions from Washington were no less dramatic, drastic and ultimately outrageous than the interventions we've seen from Moscow."

Friedrich Merz, CDU leader

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Echoes of 1930s Europe grow ever louder. We ignore them at our peril

The far right is on the march again in Germany. The parallels with the rise of Hitler almost a century ago are everywhere.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Carringbush2010]

Peoples voting habits clearly show the majority of people’s thoughts. I’m not sure how you think that’s a “media beat up”

Ok then link us this overwhelming change in voting to far right parties.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Ok then link us this overwhelming change in voting to far right parties.

Germany just went conservative (as already posted). The French elections were a big swing to the right. Ultimately that didn't deliver a change in Government as their strange 2-staged election process allowed the Centrist party to align with the far left to push out the right, but it was a big swing in the popular vote. Finally, Reform UK (politicking largely on an anti-immigration basis) is tipped as a chance to form Government, or at least replace the Tories as the primary conservative party in opposition, currently polling at 27% (2% above Labour and 6% above Tories). The Netherlands freedom party was successful in 2023 and has current highest approval ratings. Then of course there is Trump.

Bit of a bizarre take really. It's pretty clear that people around the world are standing up against far left ideals.

 

[10571z]

Ok then link us this overwhelming change in voting to far right parties.

Gee whiz.

European political landscape shifts right in 2024

The European elections, along with polls in Portugal and Austria, have shifted the political landscape to the right and far-right. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

I mean there are literally hundreds of articles available.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Gee whiz.

European political landscape shifts right in 2024

The European elections, along with polls in Portugal and Austria, have shifted the political landscape to the right and far-right. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

I mean there are literally hundreds of articles available.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Germany just went conservative (as already posted). The French elections were a big swing to the right. Ultimately that didn't deliver a change in Government as their strange 2-staged election process allowed the Centrist party to align with the far left to push out the right, but it was a big swing in the popular vote. Finally, Reform UK (politicking largely on an anti-immigration basis) is tipped as a chance to form Government, or at least replace the Tories as the primary conservative party in opposition, currently polling at 27% (2% above Labour and 6% above Tories). The Netherlands freedom party was successful in 2023 and has current highest approval ratings. Then of course there is Trump.

Bit of a bizarre take really. It's pretty clear that people around the world are standing up against far left ideals.

Gee whiz.

European political landscape shifts right in 2024

The European elections, along with polls in Portugal and Austria, have shifted the political landscape to the right and far-right. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

I mean there are literally hundreds of articles available.

None of that says the overwhelming majority are protest voting against muslim immigration. Which is what the thread is about.

Not 'far left ideals'.

Look at drumph, only 31% voted for him out of the whole population, that doesn't say the majority does it, in fact far from it. Very very far (thank god)

Even then highly unlikely they're all right wing nutters, probably a lot of just dumb moderate conservatives (hardly rwnj types) that couldn't stomach the dems.

Again, the media paints a picture 'oh shit! run for the hills everyone's voting right coz muslim immigrants' and you guys lap it up coz it suits your narrative.

'See, islam bad, don't say I didn't tell yas, article proves me right'

 

[10571z]

None of that says the overwhelming majority are protest voting against muslim immigration. Which is what the thread is about.

Not 'far left ideals'.

Look at drumph, only 31% voted for him out of the whole population, that doesn't say the majority does it, in fact far from it. Very very far (thank god)

Even then highly unlikely they're all right wing nutters, probably a lot of just dumb moderate conservatives (hardly rwnj types) that couldn't stomach the dems.

Again, the media paints a picture 'oh shit! run for the hills everyone's voting right coz muslim immigrants' and you guys lap it up coz it suits your narrative.

'See, islam bad, don't say I didn't tell yas, article proves me right'

A key factor in the German election was immigration. Im shocked you didn't know this.


"only" 31% LOL

 

[Carringbush2010]

A key factor in the German election was immigration. Im shocked you didn't know this.


"only" 31% LOL

Opinion.

Your sources are media, which are hyperbolized to make people like you believe it.

And yeah, don't know how good your math is but 69% is NOT the minority.

 

[10571z]

Opinion.

Your sources are media, which are hyperbolized to make people like you believe it.

And yeah, don't know how good your math is but 69% is NOT the minority.

Ah yes so 2 right wing parties did well in the German election but it’s just a media beat up immigration policy was a massive factor.. silly me

31% of the country is a massive chunk who actually went to vote and are eligible to vote.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Ah yes so 2 right wing parties did well in the German election but it’s just a media beat up immigration policy was a massive factor.. silly me

31% of the country is a massive chunk who actually went to vote and are eligible to vote.

Seeing how this started from the blame islam thread.

Do you still think that people wholly and solely protest voted against islamic immigration.

 

[10571z]

Seeing how this started from the blame islam thread.

Do you still think that people wholly and solely protest voted against islamic immigration.

Not 100% of votes of course not but it was a hot topic and and area of huge discussion in Germany. It certainly had a large influence on the outcome. See who won and which parties gained.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Not 100% of votes of course not but it was a hot topic and and area of huge discussion in Germany. It certainly had a large influence on the outcome. See who won and which parties gained.

Hot topic, that's the media at work.

 

[faible]

I'm not sure you can lump AfD and centre-right voters together, they're pretty different ideologically. For context, the CDU was the same party that governed Germany from 2005 - 2021 under Angela Merkel who was definitely not far-right.

I would be like trying to lump Teal Independent voters and One Nation voters together. Sure they're both nominally 'right' wing parties, but they're functionally a pretty long way apart on a lot of topics.

 

[Trouto]

Opinion.

Your sources are media, which are hyperbolized to make people like you believe it.

And yeah, don't know how good your math is but 69% is NOT the minority.

your point stands in a crappy 2-party scam like USA or Australia, but many European countries have plenty of parties who get a good chunk of the vote. in Germany, 31 % is big

 

[Saint Shags]

I'm not sure you can lump AfD and centre-right voters together, they're pretty different ideologically. For context, the CDU was the same party that governed Germany from 2005 - 2021 under Angela Merkel who was definitely not far-right.

I would be like trying to lump Teal Independent voters and One Nation voters together. Sure they're both nominally 'right' wing parties, but they're functionally a pretty long way apart on a lot of topics.

That's far too nuanced for some on here. According to some Germany hasn't been conservative for decades.

 

[Saint Shags]

your point stands in a crappy 2-party scam like USA or Australia, but many European countries have plenty of parties who get a good chunk of the vote. in Germany, 31 % is big

No it's not.

You only have to look back and 31% for the CDU is the 2nd lowest in German elections back to 1990

 

[Carringbush2010]

your point stands in a crappy 2-party scam like USA or Australia, but many European countries have plenty of parties who get a good chunk of the vote. in Germany, 31 % is big

But not the majority is it.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I'm not sure you can lump AfD and centre-right voters together, they're pretty different ideologically. For context, the CDU was the same party that governed Germany from 2005 - 2021 under Angela Merkel who was definitely not far-right.

I would be like trying to lump Teal Independent voters and One Nation voters together. Sure they're both nominally 'right' wing parties, but they're functionally a pretty long way apart on a lot of topics.

Yes, but Merz is hardly Merkel. Aside from the fact they don't like each other personally, Merz is more willing to be tough on immigration than Merkel ever was. Granted, he's still very different to AfD who are openly racist and want to give Putin a reach-around.

 

[faible]

Yes, but Merz is hardly Merkel. Aside from the fact they don't like each other personally, Merz is more willing to be tough on immigration than Merkel ever was. Granted, he's still very different to AfD who are openly racist and want to give Putin a reach-around.

The bolded is my point, lumping them in together as ‘right’ ignores that there’s a fairly large gap between where they both sit.

Many of those who vote for CDU probably wouldn’t vote for AfD.

 

[Not Important]

"The result reflects the global trend of protest votes fueling the rise of right-wing parties. This shift makes politics more unstable, complicating efforts to tackle the structural issues driving voter dissatisfaction in the first place.”

Why Germany’s far right is a problem even if the ‘firewall’ holds

The rapid rise of the far-right party Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) and its influence on the agenda of other parties will define German politics for the next four years, says a University of Melbourne expert

pursuit.unimelb.edu.au

 

[Episode IV]

Opinion.

Your sources are media, which are hyperbolized to make people like you believe it.

And yeah, don't know how good your math is but 69% is NOT the minority.

But not the majority is it.

You're not really seeing this one, Carringbush.
The 31% is extremely important in German politics, as they have so many "major" parties compared to Australia. The interesting thing about this election and the trend over the last couple has been that shift to the right - and it is mostly about immigration. As far as I can tell there's also a backlash against increasing EU interference in European politics, but immigration is the key topic.
I think you're a bit off on the media coverage as well - many media outlets are actually trying to downplay the anti-immigration sentiment rather than buying into it. I was reading an ABC (Australia) article the other day after the election which was purportedly giving all the reasons for the rise in support of the AfD, and included all the inevitable comparisons to the 1930's and dire warnings of authoritarian government... which didn't mention immigration issues once. I laughed.

One of the keys to understanding this result is in the idea that Germans in general don't really want to vote far right.
That they are, is indicative of a general sense of desperation around the issue of immigration. As I understand it, support for the AfD would have been even greater, if Merz had not addressed the critical immigration issue prior to the election.
I'm not really up on the details, but apparently there were speeches made by Merz promising to address the problem prior to the election which have now been backtracked on now he's back in power. Some time before the election itself, when it became apparent that AdF was going to gain a sizeable proportion of the vote, the CDU decided it was good sense to pretend to listen, and promised major immigration reforms and cutbacks.
Now, in order to keep the AfD out, they've been forced to form coalition with left-leaning parties (read up on German "firewalling") in order to form an effective government - and those parties will not support anti-immigration measures.

This has left a lot of people who voted for the CDU, viewed as a more moderate conservative alternative, rather miffed... as immigration was a reason they might have voted for the AfD in the first place, but decided not to because the feeling was that the CDU was going to do something.
The firewalling of the Right in Germany has ensured that, promises or no promises, they're not going to able to do a damned thing, because their partners will not allow it.
Effectively, intentionally or not, Germans who voted primarily over immigration concerns (a lot of them) have been lied to.

Oh, and have a look at voter demographics as well, both geographic and social. The left can always rely upon the tactic of importing their own voter base. Happens in Australia too, but in Germany we're talking millions. Entire districts.

I'm probably not explaining this too well, couple of drinks down and too tired to look up the sources and articles. That ABC one is eluding me.
But you're wrong on this one. Immigration is the centerpiece topic for this election. The media have been both playing it up, and playing it down, depends on what you read. The fact that they're playing it at all should be indicative of how important it is.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Why is immigration such a big issue? According to reports I have read, immigration crime hasn't gone up. Yet the media always like to highlight any crime committed by a migrant. Is it scare tactics working to rile up the general population, to make things seem worse than they really are? Or to blame a minority for the countries failings, which happens to be the same issues every developed country is facing right now?

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Why is immigration such a big issue? According to reports I have read, immigration crime hasn't gone up. Yet the media always like to highlight any crime committed by a migrant. Is it scare tactics working to rile up the general population, to make things seem worse than they really are? Or to blame a minority for the countries failings, which happens to be the same issues every developed country is facing right now?

Immigration is always a big issue when a countries economy is in the toilet.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You're not really seeing this one, Carringbush.

I replied to the poster who's argument is that, to paraphrase, 'look the media says europe and uk are protest voting against islamic immigration'

The discussion began in the 'why I blame islam' thread and it got moved here because the poster used the excuse that Germany and Europe are protest voting.

I've tried to explain that the poster is reading too much into media (and how they sell the dystopia for click bait) either through naivety or because it suits the poster narrative.

Nothing to do with the German election.

The 31% is extremely important in German politics, as they have so many "major" parties compared to Australia. The interesting thing about this election and the trend over the last couple has been that shift to the right - and it is mostly about immigration.

31% is the amount of Americans that voted for tRump, zero to do with the German election. I used this to explain that despite the portrayal as tRump as 'popular', it is a misnomer.

69% of Americans obviously are not so much in love with tRump.

All of this is a discussion for another thread though.