20th AFL Team

[MelbourneGWS]

Just like North is Tasmania's home team with 7000 members?

Did Norths consistently state and consider themselves Tasmania’s AFL team?

 

[Bjo187]

Did Norths consistently state and consider themselves Tasmania’s AFL team?

North mate, I see you say norths all the time . No big deal, but just saying.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Did Norths consistently state and consider themselves Tasmania’s AFL team?

Well, their AFLW team is officially called the North Melbourne Tasmanian Kangaroos, so, yes?

 

[Badger17]

He's not entirely wrong though.

AFL fans are happy to have the Giants because it's a way to support AFL, but outside of that, the Giants haven't permeated the public consciousness the way the Raiders or Brumbies have. I see way more Raiders gear than I do Giants gear. I probably even see more Collingwood than Giants.

At times, the Giants partnership is even on the nose. Any time there's a funding issue, the Giants are a cheap shot. The Raiders get almost as much in funding, so the issue isn't sport, it's that they're not a proper Canberra team. Nobody would blink twice at that money going to an actual AFL team of our own.

I don't think the Giants will ever be considered a real Canberra team (unless there's a dramatic shift in the number of games played).

We both know that I'm not wrong at all, and I'd bet that GWS isn't even in the top five most popular AFL sides in Canberra/Queanbeyan. Heaps of people have them as their 'second team', but it's very unusual to find a person who claims to be a Giants fan first and foremost.

At the very least Collingwood, Sydney, Carlton, Richmond, and Essendon are more popular than the Giants here, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if at least a few other clubs were bigger than them as well.

 

[Badger17]

You're not though, you are a rugby league fan aren't you? I don't think you want what's best for afl in Canberra at all, so your opinions are more biased than anyone in here. I agree gws should move out of Canberra, but do you want an AFL club in Canberra, or just no afl presence in Canberra full stop?

I didn't realise this was the inquisition.

It's pretty self-evident that I support local Aussie rules and an AFL side in Canberra, I wouldn't be wasting my time on this if I didn't. I take an interest in many sports as well. Does my interest in football, ice hockey, and basketball, among others, make me suspect as well, or is it just RL that you take an issue with?

You're going to have to get used to the concept of a person that supports both the AFL and NRL if you want a Canberran AFL side, because that's going to describe a huge portion of that club's support base, almost certainly a majority, if the club is to be successful.

Don't think that I missed that all you've done is accuse me of being a dishonest actor and failed to actually address anything that I've said.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

I fear you may be right, but imagine if the Eagles had been set up the way GWS were, a Perth based team that played 3 games per year in Darwin and only got 8 home games in Perth.

Darwin is no more part of Perth than Canberra is of Western Sydney, it is a dumb connection to 'establish' long-term.

It’s not quite the same though. Canberra is 3 hours drive from Sydney, whereas Perth is more than 3 hours flight time from Darwin. This level of proximity probably makes Canberra more accessible to its main base of Sydney than any other secondary market partnership that we’ve seen in our sport so far (with the exception of the Dogs in Ballarat). A few other factors that I feel may hold the partnership together are:

1. The funding - $2.5m pa. GWS will need to find this level of funding from somewhere else if it leaves Canberra. It already receives more ASD funding from the league than any other club (along with the Suns), so the AFL may be hesitant in ending the partnership if it results in them becoming a bigger recipient from head office.

2. Attendances - Canberra continues to record strong crowds for GWS games. From the AFL’s perspective, if these started to decline then it may be a sign that the interest in the partnership was waning in Canberra and a new strategy was required for the region. No signs of this so far.

3. Academy zone - this is perhaps the biggest factor of all. The four Northern clubs have each had periods in their history when player retention was difficult (albeit this hasn’t affected the Swans as much who have regularly been a destination club). As we know, the academies are a mechanism to give priority access to these clubs for developing ‘local’ talent. The academies are killing it at the moment and the current zoning maps allow each of the four clubs to obtain a steady stream of talent. Western Sydney has not been a fruitful area for GWS to obtain talent. Canberra and the Riverina (with its greater footy heritage and participation rates) has provided GWS with the bulk of its academy talent. If GWS does not start producing more AFL-ready talent in Western Sydney then I am very skeptical about whether the AFL will take its more productive academy regions away from it and allocate them to a new Canberra-based club. Some in the past have suggested that Darwin could go from the Suns to the Giants, although without finding stats, I dare say that Canberra + the Riverina produces more AFL players than Darwin. Also, the proximity of those regions to Canberra would more likely assist with player retention compared with players who originate in Darwin, so I’m unconvinced that the AFL would risk jeopardising the success of it’s favourite child in GWS by establishing a new club that would threaten the current advantages that it has.

Throughout the debate, I have yet to see any arguments/ideas that could overcome these issues. Especially in relation to the academy. Western Sydney is not a strong AFL area, but population and economy means that it’s too important to lose. Therefore, I believe that the AFL will continue to exploit Canberra if it makes GWS more financially sustainable and gives them a better chance of being successful on field.

 

[Canberra Pear]

1. The funding - $2.5m pa. GWS will need to find this level of funding from somewhere else if it leaves Canberra. It already receives more ASD funding from the league than any other club (along with the Suns), so the AFL may be hesitant in moving them if it results in them becoming a bigger recipient from head office.

North are receiving the equal most after the Suns and the Giants, but North's $4m per year didn't stop the AFL putting the team in Hobart.

It won't make up the entire shortfall, but Canberra takes up a prime spot on the guernsey. A sponsor would snap that up pretty quickly. Maintaining the Canberra relationship would also be costing the Giants a bit, so it's not like the AFL will make up the whole shortfall.

Others have also raised playing a game in Newcastle.

2. Attendances - Canberra continues to record strong crowds for GWS games. From the AFL’s perspective, if these started to decline then it may be a sign that the interest in the partnership was waning in Canberra and a new strategy was required for the region. No signs of this so far.

This one annoys the me the most. North's crowds waned in Tasmania as a protest. We don't have that luxury.

If we get big crowds, people assume we love the Giants. If we get low crowds, we must just be rugby territory, we couldn't possibly support an AFL team.

We received similar high crowds for North and Melbourne, and even higher averages for the Bulldogs.

3. Academy zone - this is perhaps the biggest factor of all. The four Northern clubs have each had periods in their history when player retention was difficult (albeit this hasn’t affected the Swans as much who have regularly been a destination club). As we know, the academies are a mechanism to give priority access to these clubs for developing ‘local’ talent. The academies are killing it at the moment and the current zoning maps allow each of the four clubs to obtain a steady stream of talent. Western Sydney has not been a fruitful area for GWS to obtain talent. Canberra and the Riverina (with its greater footy heritage and participation rates) has provided GWS with the bulk of its academy talent. If GWS does not start producing more AFL-ready talent in Western Sydney then I am very skeptical about whether the AFL will take its more productive academy regions away from it and allocate them to a new Canberra-based club. Some in the past have suggested that Darwin could go from the Suns to the Giants, although without finding stats, I dare say that Canberra + the Riverina produces more AFL players than Darwin. Also, the proximity of those regions to Canberra would more likely assist with player retention compared with players who originate in Darwin, so I’m unconvinced that the AFL would risk jeopardising the success of it’s favourite child in GWS by establishing a new club that would threaten the current advantages that it has.

I don't think the academy is as important as people think. Three quarters of GWS academy players still playing no longer have any association with the Giants. Much of the Riverina is just as close to Melbourne, so there's no incentive to stay in Sydney. In 2024, only 8 of GWS' 44 players came from Canberra and the Riverina.

Back in 2017, the Giants lost the Albury area from their academy to even things out. That could re-go to the Giants academy, while leaving the Riverina and ACT for Canberra. As you mentioned, the NT could go to GWS. The NT and Albury combined could make up the difference.

 

[Canberra Pear]

We both know that I'm not wrong at all, and I'd bet that GWS isn't even in the top five most popular AFL sides in Canberra/Queanbeyan. Heaps of people have them as their 'second team', but it's very unusual to find a person who claims to be a Giants fan first and foremost.

At the very least Collingwood, Sydney, Carlton, Richmond, and Essendon are more popular than the Giants here, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if at least a few other clubs were bigger than them as well.

That's fair. I've never met a Giants-first fan in Canberra, but I know multiple fans of most other clubs. I probably attract them, but I know so many Port supporters here. And loads of Richmond and Collingwood fans.

 

[Bjo187]

I didn't realise this was the inquisition.

It's pretty self-evident that I support local Aussie rules and an AFL side in Canberra, I wouldn't be wasting my time on this if I didn't. I take an interest in many sports as well. Does my interest in football, ice hockey, and basketball, among others, make me suspect as well, or is it just RL that you take an issue with?

You're going to have to get used to the concept of a person that supports both the AFL and NRL if you want a Canberran AFL side, because that's going to describe a huge portion of that club's support base, almost certainly a majority, if the club is to be successful.

Don't think that I missed that all you've done is accuse me of being a dishonest actor and failed to actually address anything that I've said.

The jig was up when you came in here ranting and raving that Manuka and therefore the afl might get an upgraded stadium and the raiders would have to either wait or share a new stadium with the afl. I remember saying I think you signed into Bigfooty instead of league unlimited by accident, to which a lot on here agreed.

So since then I see biased in everything you write, because how could a footy fan not want Manuka to be upgraded, which therefore increases the possibility of Canberra being team 20? That I can't get my head around.

I don't mind your other material, some of it is good insights into the local scene, I am suspicious though that you want what is best for the game in Canberra post that insight when we saw your disgust about potential afl advancement in Canberra and how it might affect your rectangular sports.

* with regards to Cunnington Cartel and the giants zones, interestingly the article the other day said the n.t produces a heap more afl players than Canberra on a per capita basis. I also think the giants need to get serious about their academies in western sydney and stop taking the easy path in using Canberra and snsw as their catchment. They need to proactively head hunt athletes in w.s to try afl as an alternative to their soccer, rugby's etc, for if they don't make it to the top in those sports they have an alternative. I think they are scared off by the biased anti afl media there and the bad press it may create, but they already get biased anti afl media anyway. They should be scouting local basketball, soccer, rugby games, then giving a parent a business card for their kid to come and do an academy trial too. The other thing is, Blacktown and w.s have the highest indigenous population in Australia, they have a long history in our game that should be tapped into with local kids. It's about resourcing, like the suns, if they applied themselves they could have some good results locally instead of relying on Canberra snsw.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

It’s not quite the same though. Canberra is 3 hours drive from Sydney, whereas Perth is more than 3 hours flight time from Darwin. This level of proximity probably makes Canberra more accessible to its main base of Sydney than any other secondary market partnership that we’ve seen in our sport so far (with the exception of the Dogs in Ballarat). A few other factors that I feel may hold the partnership together are:

1. The funding - $2.5m pa. GWS will need to find this level of funding from somewhere else if it leaves Canberra. It already receives more ASD funding from the league than any other club (along with the Suns), so the AFL may be hesitant in ending the partnership if it results in them becoming a bigger recipient from head office.

2. Attendances - Canberra continues to record strong crowds for GWS games. From the AFL’s perspective, if these started to decline then it may be a sign that the interest in the partnership was waning in Canberra and a new strategy was required for the region. No signs of this so far.

3. Academy zone - this is perhaps the biggest factor of all. The four Northern clubs have each had periods in their history when player retention was difficult (albeit this hasn’t affected the Swans as much who have regularly been a destination club). As we know, the academies are a mechanism to give priority access to these clubs for developing ‘local’ talent. The academies are killing it at the moment and the current zoning maps allow each of the four clubs to obtain a steady stream of talent. Western Sydney has not been a fruitful area for GWS to obtain talent. Canberra and the Riverina (with its greater footy heritage and participation rates) has provided GWS with the bulk of its academy talent. If GWS does not start producing more AFL-ready talent in Western Sydney then I am very skeptical about whether the AFL will take its more productive academy regions away from it and allocate them to a new Canberra-based club. Some in the past have suggested that Darwin could go from the Suns to the Giants, although without finding stats, I dare say that Canberra + the Riverina produces more AFL players than Darwin. Also, the proximity of those regions to Canberra would more likely assist with player retention compared with players who originate in Darwin, so I’m unconvinced that the AFL would risk jeopardising the success of it’s favourite child in GWS by establishing a new club that would threaten the current advantages that it has.

Throughout the debate, I have yet to see any arguments/ideas that could overcome these issues. Especially in relation to the academy. Western Sydney is not a strong AFL area, but population and economy means that it’s too important to lose. Therefore, I believe that the AFL will continue to exploit Canberra if it makes GWS more financially sustainable and gives them a better chance of being successful on field.

1. Another thing to note is the stadium issue. League, Union and Soccer (especially if the long delayed Aleague men’s expansion team becomes a reality) want a new rectangular stadium - I just don’t think there is enough $ for an upgraded Manuka stadium and a separate rectangular stadium. I would think AFL would want a significantly bigger stadium if Canberra is to have an AFL team that would be playing 8+ home matches here regularly. I also don’t know how successful the plans for Canberra to get a new BBL cricket franchise will be - hopefully it will happen which will be good for AFL.

2. Giants, as Canberra’s AFL team, are also attracting sold out home crowds at Manuka. In fact (from another thread in Bug Footy), it seems more people attended the Giants St Kilda match than the Raiders home match last weekend. There were also lot of kids as it was a designated Giants Recruit match, and for a significant majority of these kids, Giants is their AFL team - especially given their community involvement, and when all 23 Giants matches are televised live on free to air TV in Canberra.

3. Might have been mentioned before, but there seems to be no push by the ACT Government for a permanent AFL team. The Government seems contended with the long term 2032 deal with the Giants. In this election year, the two most significant sports related issues seems to be a new stadium to replace the rectangular stadium at Bruce, and saving our female soccer Canberra United team.

 

[speedpeck23]

Just like North is Tasmania's home team with 7000 members?

That's fair. I've never met a Giants-first fan in Canberra, but I know multiple fans of most other clubs. I probably attract them, but I know so many Port supporters here. And loads of Richmond and Collingwood fans.

That's hardly surprising though.....those clubs you mention have been around for at least 125 years.....( Port of course 154 years),,, they will have supporters everywhere by virtue of generational connection.

Ironically it's the very reason the AFL is trying to build the game in NSW and Qld there would be a significant support base for those traditional clubs and others in Sydney and Brisbane.

Brisbane and Geelong , tomorrow night, of course will be a sell out and if Brisbane ever got a 50,000 seat venue they'd sell that out as well thanks to the Cats fans living in Qld.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

AFL boss rejects talk of third WA team

AFL CEO Andrew Dillon has shut down talks over a proposed third team in WA with the footy boss saying ‘a lot of work would have to be done.’

thewest.com.au

AFL CEO Andrew Dillon has poured cold water on the prospect of a third team in Western Australia.

Speaking at Friday’s Seven West Media Derby Lunch at Crown, Dillon said “a lot of work would have to be done” to introduce another team in the State.

With Tasmania set to enter the competition in 2028 there is speculation there will be a 20th licence granted. “I’m not that against an odd number of teams,” Dillon said. “Freo and West Coast work pretty well in Perth.”

West Australian Football Commission chair Wayne Martin earlier this year described a push for a third WA AFL team as “madness”, suggesting merging two Melbourne-based clubs as a means of re-equalising the fixture.

A consortium is believed to be interested in pulling together a Geraldton bid, while civic leaders in Joondalup, Mandurah, Bunbury and the South-West have also expressed interest.

“I think it’s madness,” Martin told The West Australian.

“There are a limited number of talented players and if you keep on adding clubs there would be an issue whether there is enough talent to sustain the standards at 20.

“I am not ruling 20 out, but I think in Western Australia there just aren’t enough businesses and people to support a third licence.”

Dillon also hinted at the prospect of a special event for WA, even floating an expansion of Gather Round.

 

[Bjo187]

AFL boss rejects talk of third WA team

AFL CEO Andrew Dillon has shut down talks over a proposed third team in WA with the footy boss saying ‘a lot of work would have to be done.’

thewest.com.au

AFL CEO Andrew Dillon has poured cold water on the prospect of a third team in Western Australia.

Speaking at Friday’s Seven West Media Derby Lunch at Crown, Dillon said “a lot of work would have to be done” to introduce another team in the State.

With Tasmania set to enter the competition in 2028 there is speculation there will be a 20th licence granted. “I’m not that against an odd number of teams,” Dillon said. “Freo and West Coast work pretty well in Perth.”

West Australian Football Commission chair Wayne Martin earlier this year described a push for a third WA AFL team as “madness”, suggesting merging two Melbourne-based clubs as a means of re-equalising the fixture.

A consortium is believed to be interested in pulling together a Geraldton bid, while civic leaders in Joondalup, Mandurah, Bunbury and the South-West have also expressed interest.

“I think it’s madness,” Martin told The West Australian.

“There are a limited number of talented players and if you keep on adding clubs there would be an issue whether there is enough talent to sustain the standards at 20.

“I am not ruling 20 out, but I think in Western Australia there just aren’t enough businesses and people to support a third licence.”

Dillon also hinted at the prospect of a special event for WA, even floating an expansion of Gather Round.

He is going to play everything down so there is no time pressure on team 20. But it's good the seed was planted in his mind for w.a 3. Also I personally like the idea of a second gather round in July in Perth when the season gets monotonous and it's cold as all hell in Melbourne.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

He is going to play everything down so there is no time pressure on team 20. But it's good the seed was planted in his mind for w.a 3. Also I personally like the idea of a second gather round in July in Perth when the season gets monotonous and it's cold as all hell in Melbourne.

Always thought two magic rounds would be the ideal number IMO, with NSW or QLD hosting the first one in April (like now) instead of Opening Round while there’s more to play earlier on in the season to entice casual spectators to travel while SA, TAS or WA hosting the other one later on in the season in July or August as the footy-hard spectators around the country would come no matter what happens, although weather could be an issue around those winter months as you alluded to.

Anymore than two per year though would be overkill, as well as hosting it in the same state for 50 years (as much as that’s my dream for it in here in Adelaide forever).

 

[Coolangatta]

He is going to play everything down so there is no time pressure on team 20. But it's good the seed was planted in his mind for w.a 3. Also I personally like the idea of a second gather round in July in Perth when the season gets monotonous and it's cold as all hell in Melbourne.

Actually I don't think that's what he's doing at all, to me this is pretty big news, makes me think WA3 is much less likely now, and there might not be a 20th team for a long time, as Walshawk has been saying. He's "not that against" 19 teams, I think he means it, it's consistent with what he's said earlier.

One thing though. Laugh. My. ****ing. Ass. Off, that "there just aren’t enough businesses and people to support a third licence" in WA but Victoria having 10 teams is a-okay.

Vic's should have 8 max IMO, sorry Vic's but that's what I think you can handle if WA can't sustain 3.

 

[Coolangatta]

He is going to play everything down so there is no time pressure on team 20. But it's good the seed was planted in his mind for w.a 3. Also I personally like the idea of a second gather round in July in Perth when the season gets monotonous and it's cold as all hell in Melbourne.

I think he might have actually read the email I sent him.

While I don't think he's keen on 20 just yet, and is okay with staying on 19, I also think he's already well aware of the many different expansion options that could present themselves in the future.

They'd probably prefer a third team in Sydney if there's ever gonna be a 20th team, and that can't happen for at least another 20 years.

 

[Badger17]

The jig was up when you came in here ranting and raving that Manuka and therefore the afl might get an upgraded stadium and the raiders would have to either wait or share a new stadium with the afl. I remember saying I think you signed into Bigfooty instead of league unlimited by accident, to which a lot on here agreed.

So since then I see biased in everything you write, because how could a footy fan not want Manuka to be upgraded, which therefore increases the possibility of Canberra being team 20? That I can't get my head around.

I don't mind your other material, some of it is good insights into the local scene, I am suspicious though that you want what is best for the game in Canberra post that insight when we saw your disgust about potential afl advancement in Canberra and how it might affect your rectangular sports.

"How could a footy fan not want Manuka to be upgraded", well I do want a new oval stadium, however unlike you I understand that those concerns don't exist in a vacuum and that it'd be both irrational and deeply unjust to prioritise more upgrades to Manuka or a new oval stadium for two sports, both of which have frankly treated Canberra like an afterthought or nuisance at best for generations, over other infrastructure projects that are in worse states of disrepair for sports and communities that have been invested members of Canberran society for generations.

Manuka has been well maintained and received some significant upgrades over the last couple decades, in contrast-

• the AIS Arena got into such a state of disrepair that it had to be closed to the public for safety reasons and instead of replacing it like they should have the government has done the bare minimum to reopen it to the public, meaning that we'll still need to invest in a new arena within the next decade or so.

• Bruce stadium is in a total state of disrepair and has needed replacing for the better part of 20 years now. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say that the western side is literally crumbling down and that it leaks raw sewage, both of those are literally true and it's not unforeseeable that it could be closed for public safety reasons like the arena was. It also lacks a whole heap of basic necessities that are expected in a modern stadium, like adequate facilities for female players and patrons.

• The ice rink has need upgrading/replacing for even longer than Bruce and is in a similar state of disrepair.

• The city has needed new Olympic diving boards for even longer than that. Many of the public pools need investment and we could use another Olympic pool as well.

• There literally aren't enough basketball and netball courts in the city to meet demand for court time and most of the indoor basketball courts that do exist are severely dated and coming to the end of their useful life.

I could go on for a lot longer and that's only addressing public facilities for sporting organisations, not all the other infrastructure projects that need fixing or social services pretty much all of which need significant investment and/or overhauling.

So when you say you saw my 'disgust about potential AFL advancement in Canberra' you've completely misinterpreted me; I'm not disgusted by the potential growth of the AFL and Aussie Rules in Canberra, in fact I welcome it, what I'm disgusted by is the social degradation and political malaise within the ACT and how it's been allowed to get so bad that it significantly impacts the existence and health of so many local institutions, sporting and otherwise, and how those institutions and other communities more broadly have been treated by successive local governments.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

North are receiving the equal most after the Suns and the Giants, but North's $4m per year didn't stop the AFL putting the team in Hobart.

It won't make up the entire shortfall, but Canberra takes up a prime spot on the guernsey. A sponsor would snap that up pretty quickly. Maintaining the Canberra relationship would also be costing the Giants a bit, so it's not like the AFL will make up the whole shortfall.

Others have also raised playing a game in Newcastle.



This one annoys the me the most. North's crowds waned in Tasmania as a protest. We don't have that luxury.

If we get big crowds, people assume we love the Giants. If we get low crowds, we must just be rugby territory, we couldn't possibly support an AFL team.

We received similar high crowds for North and Melbourne, and even higher averages for the Bulldogs.



I don't think the academy is as important as people think. Three quarters of GWS academy players still playing no longer have any association with the Giants. Much of the Riverina is just as close to Melbourne, so there's no incentive to stay in Sydney. In 2024, only 8 of GWS' 44 players came from Canberra and the Riverina.

Back in 2017, the Giants lost the Albury area from their academy to even things out. That could re-go to the Giants academy, while leaving the Riverina and ACT for Canberra. As you mentioned, the NT could go to GWS. The NT and Albury combined could make up the difference.

* with regards to @Cunnington Cartel and the giants zones, interestingly the article the other day said the n.t produces a heap more afl players than Canberra on a per capita basis. I also think the giants need to get serious about their academies in western sydney and stop taking the easy path in using Canberra and snsw as their catchment. They need to proactively head hunt athletes in w.s to try afl as an alternative to their soccer, rugby's etc, for if they don't make it to the top in those sports they have an alternative. I think they are scared off by the biased anti afl media there and the bad press it may create, but they already get biased anti afl media anyway. They should be scouting local basketball, soccer, rugby games, then giving a parent a business card for their kid to come and do an academy trial too. The other thing is, Blacktown and w.s have the highest indigenous population in Australia, they have a long history in our game that should be tapped into with local kids. It's about resourcing, like the suns, if they applied themselves they could have some good results locally instead of relying on Canberra snsw.

You’ve both provided a pretty solid path forward to solve the academy situation. Between Albury and the NT, that would hopefully cover GWS from losing Canberra and the Riverina from their zone. Although, the Suns only have Darwin, there are a range of other clubs that have regional NT areas as part of their next gen zone and I cannot see any of them willingly giving up those areas unless they were forced to through the introduction of a license going to the NT itself.

In regards to North Melbourne being forced to leave Hobart to make way for Tassie. I’m not sure if you can conflate the AFL’s decision making that affects North Melbourne with how they’ll make decisions that affect their babies (Giants and Suns). Successive AFL administrations have proven that they don’t give two shits about my club. Andy D tried to ship us up to the Gold Coast and then Gill’s administration floated the idea of us relocating to Tassie or establishing a joint venture. It’s only when Tasmanians blew up at the suggestion that it disappeared from the discourse. They don’t have a similar attitude towards the Giants, although I agree with your comments that a new jumper sponsor and secondary market (like Newcastle) would likely replace the loss of ACT government funding anyway.

I just hope the AFL sees things the way you two do, because all of the decision making and commentary so far suggests that they are chips in on exploiting Canberra to prop up GWS. As I’ve said before, the growth of the Giants in Western Sydney will clearly be a huge shot in the arm for the prospects of a license going to Canberra. It shouldn’t come down to this, but the AFL always goes where they want to go.

 

[Badger17]

1. Another thing to note is the stadium issue. League, Union and Soccer (especially if the long delayed Aleague men’s expansion team becomes a reality) want a new rectangular stadium - I just don’t think there is enough $ for an upgraded Manuka stadium and a separate rectangular stadium. I would think AFL would want a significantly bigger stadium if Canberra is to have an AFL team that would be playing 8+ home matches here regularly. I also don’t know how successful the plans for Canberra to get a new BBL cricket franchise will be - hopefully it will happen which will be good for AFL.

2. Giants, as Canberra’s AFL team, are also attracting sold out home crowds at Manuka. In fact (from another thread in Bug Footy), it seems more people attended the Giants St Kilda match than the Raiders home match last weekend. There were also lot of kids as it was a designated Giants Recruit match, and for a significant majority of these kids, Giants is their AFL team - especially given their community involvement, and when all 23 Giants matches are televised live on free to air TV in Canberra.

3. Might have been mentioned before, but there seems to be no push by the ACT Government for a permanent AFL team. The Government seems contended with the long term 2032 deal with the Giants. In this election year, the two most significant sports related issues seems to be a new stadium to replace the rectangular stadium at Bruce, and saving our female soccer Canberra United team.

It's no great feat to outdraw a match against the Gold Coast Titans, especially when you're throwing around free tickets like confetti. Don't play coy and pretend it's not happening, we all know the Giants have been giving free tickets to every kid 15 and under and I personally know multiple people who wouldn't normally attend that have been taking advantage. Meanwhile everybody at the Raiders has to pay their way and the stadium and location turns people away in their droves.

Canberra United hasn't been an election issue at all, in fact it's been dealt with for now. It isn't really the ACT government's place to launch a bid for an AFL license either, especially when they don't even know if the AFL has any interest in expanding beyond 19 anytime soon or if they'd seriously consider a Canberran side.

Backroom deals and negotiations are the smart way forward for the time being, not grandiose and relatively expensive PR exercises through the media. If Canberra is a genuine chance things will start to heat up when it comes time to renegotiate GWS's deal again.

 

[Bjo187]

It's no great feat to outdraw a match against the Gold Coast Titans, especially when you're throwing around free tickets like confetti. Don't play coy and pretend it's not happening, we all know the Giants have been giving free tickets to every kid 15 and under and I personally know multiple people who wouldn't normally attend that have been taking advantage. Meanwhile everybody at the Raiders has to pay their way and the stadium and location turns people away in their droves.

Lol you almost had us going there for a moment with your 'concerned Canberra citizen' speil further above.

Then you come out with the cookie cutter leaguie nuts response to any time the giants/afl have some popularity based expansion success in the next post, great stuff .

 

[Canberra Pear]

That's hardly surprising though.....those clubs you mention have been around for at least 125 years.....( Port of course 154 years),,, they will have supporters everywhere by virtue of generational connection.

Ironically it's the very reason the AFL is trying to build the game in NSW and Qld there would be a significant support base for those traditional clubs and others in Sydney and Brisbane.

Brisbane and Geelong , tomorrow night, of course will be a sell out and if Brisbane ever got a 50,000 seat venue they'd sell that out as well thanks to the Cats fans living in Qld.

That's kind of my point though.

The prevailing narrative that Canberra can't get a team because it's Giants territory is bull. In terms of supporters, it doesn't belong to any one team, so no one team should be stopping us getting a team.

 

[Coolangatta]

That's kind of my point though.

The prevailing narrative that Canberra can't get a team because it's Giants territory is bull. In terms of supporters, it doesn't belong to any one team, so no one team should be stopping us getting a team.

I actually have ACT ahead of WA3 as favourites now that Dillon has poured cold water over WA3.

I think the AFL cares more about growing the game in the northern states than giving a strong footy market more service. I also think the AFL quietly would love a game in Sydney every week. So Canberra kills two birds with one stone here.

I think they know that, they just need the Giants to grow more, which they will, and give them an April game at Accor so they don’t go 6+ weeks without a home game in Sydney.

Give the NT academy to GWS and they’ll be right for talent. Swans can share some more of theirs if need be, not that they’d like that.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Did Norths consistently state and consider themselves Tasmania’s AFL team?

Well, their AFLW team is officially called the North Melbourne Tasmanian Kangaroos, so, yes?

100% no. I’ve lived in Tassie most of my life and have been a North supporter for nearly as long. There’d be at least 8 other Victorian clubs with bigger supporter bases in Tassie than us. I don’t think the secondary market was successful in getting us many more Tasmanian supporters, it was only successful in getting more existing aupporters to become members.

Partway through the Hobart partnership, North changed their logo to make “North” more prominent than its ever been and due to the Arden St redevelopment etc all the comments coming from the club stated that we’re a Melbourne-based club and intend to remain that way for the next 100 years (the constitutional changes enacted by the board throughout this time solidified this, as 75% member support makes it virtually impossible for the club to ratify a relocation proposal in the future).

IMO the AFLW ‘alignment’ between North and Tasmania is an absolute farce. Even though it’s my own club, it’s an absolute disgrace that a Melbourne club could wear the map and bastardise it in different colours. North benefitted through financial deals with the government and having the whole state as a next gen academy zone. It didn’t do much for Tasmanians though, which is one reason why the alignment has never been taken seriously by the locals.

Real fans also remember that the former Tassie Devils VFL club started to fall apart after AFL Tas hired Cresswell as a coach and formed an alignment with North’s VFL club back in the 2000’s. Prior to that the Devils were playing VFL finals and attracting crowds of 14k in finals games. Once the team became Roos-aligned, it stopped becoming a Tassie team since heaps of locals missed out on a game. Performances dropped, as did crowds and the club folded within a few years. This did North a lot of brand damage in the state (even before they played in Hobart), which is another reason why the locals never particularly warmed to North when they started playing games as there was a perception they were opportunistic and didn’t really care about Tassie.

After the AFL tried to thrust North as an option for Tasmania instead of a homegrown club, Tasmanians blew up at the suggestion. North games in Hobart have been woefully attended ever since. Hawthorn always had more cut-through with Northern Tasmania than the Roos did in the south. Lots of kids jumped on board and other fans kind of adopted the Hawks as a second team for a few years there. That trend waned as Hawthorn’s performances dropped off and many Tasmanians started seeing Hawthorn’s presence as a barrier to us getting our own side. I can totally empathise with Canberra Pear in this respect.

Barr is critical in this respect, if he continues doing what he is doing then it will be that much harder for Canberra to be taken seriously by league headquarters. It was only when Gutwein told the AFL to get stuffed and threaten to not-renew the Hawks and Roos deals that they started taking our bid seriously - despite the fact we had a business case sitting with them for over 12 months that proved a Tasmanian club was viable.

Sorry for the essay, but I really wanted to emphasise that there are several key reasons why it’s not suitable to use North in Tasmania as a reference point. They never truly considered themselves Tasmania’s team and Tasmanians didn’t want them to be either.

 

[Canberra Pear]

100% no. I’ve lived in Tassie most of my life and have been a North supporter for nearly as long. There’d be at least 8 other Victorian clubs with bigger supporter bases in Tassie than us. I don’t think the secondary market was successful in getting us many more Tasmanian supporters, it was only successful in getting more existing aupporters to become members.

Partway through the Hobart partnership, North changed their logo to make “North” more prominent than its ever been and due to the Arden St redevelopment etc all the comments coming from the club stated that we’re a Melbourne-based club and intend to remain that way for the next 100 years (the constitutional changes enacted by the board throughout this time solidified this, as 75% member support makes it virtually impossible for the club to ratify a relocation proposal in the future).

IMO the AFLW ‘alignment’ between North and Tasmania is an absolute farce. Even though it’s my own club, it’s an absolute disgrace that a Melbourne club could wear the map and bastardise it in different colours. North benefitted through financial deals with the government and having the whole state as a next gen academy zone. It didn’t do much for Tasmanians though, which is one reason why the alignment has never been taken seriously by the locals.

Real fans also remember that the former Tassie Devils VFL club started to fall apart after AFL Tas hired Cresswell as a coach and formed an alignment with North’s VFL club back in the 2000’s. Prior to that the Devils were playing VFL finals and attracting crowds of 14k in finals games. Once the team became Roos-aligned, it stopped becoming a Tassie team since heaps of locals missed out on a game. Performances dropped, as did crowds and the club folded within a few years. This did North a lot of brand damage in the state (even before they played in Hobart), which is another reason why the locals never particularly warmed to North when they started playing games as there was a perception they were opportunistic and didn’t really care about Tassie.

After the AFL tried to thrust North as an option for Tasmania instead of a homegrown club, Tasmanians blew up at the suggestion. North games in Hobart have been woefully attended ever since. Hawthorn always had more cut-through with Northern Tasmania than the Roos did in the south. Lots of kids jumped on board and other fans kind of adopted the Hawks as a second team for a few years there. That trend waned as Hawthorn’s performances dropped off and many Tasmanians started seeing Hawthorn’s presence as a barrier to us getting our own side. I can totally empathise with Canberra Pear in this respect.

Barr is critical in this respect, if he continues doing what he is doing then it will be that much harder for Canberra to be taken seriously by league headquarters. It was only when Gutwein told the AFL to get stuffed and threaten to not-renew the Hawks and Roos deals that they started taking our bid seriously - despite the fact we had a business case sitting with them for over 12 months that proved a Tasmanian club was viable.

Sorry for the essay, but I really wanted to emphasise that there are several key reasons why it’s not suitable to use North in Tasmania as a reference point.

I get there's difference historical context, but most of what you said is pretty much my exact point.

Just because the Giants have 6k members and play three games a year here, it doesn't make them any more "Canberra's team" than North is Tasmania's team. As Badger said, there are at least half a dozen teams with larger fanbases than the Giants.

The main difference between the two is that we're in a mixed code city and can't afford to protest like Hobart. If we don't rock up, people just assume it's because we're "a rugby city".

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

I get there's difference historical context, but most of what you said is pretty much my exact point.

Just because the Giants have 6k members and play three games a year here, it doesn't make them any more "Canberra's team" than North is Tasmania's team. As Badger said, there are at least half a dozen teams with larger fanbases than the Giants.

The main difference between the two is that we're in a mixed code city and can't afford to protest like Hobart. If we don't rock up, people just assume it's because we're "a rugby city".

I agree that it would be crap for the detractors to use those reasons to dismiss a Canberra protest. It is genuinely a mixed code city from what I’ve read. I do think GWS have done a better job in cultivating Canberra as a secondary market than the Roos have in Hobart though. The fact that you continually need to address the misconceptions of others is perhaps reflective of this.

Also, this partnership has been in place since before the Giants even played an AFL game and the 3hr drive means that it’s accessible for Sydney-based fans to hop in their car and do a day trip for Canberra games and vice versa. These factors strengthen ties and increase Canberra’s convenience as a secondary market for the Giants. Hopefully, Newcastle can slot in and fulfil that role if GWS need another market to focus on post-Canberra.

It will essentially all come down to the AFL’s preferred location and the ability of the respective state govs/bid teams to strike the best deal with the AFL. Dillon’s comments yesterday about WA3 makes your chances seem hopeful, will just need Barr’s Government to click into gear over the next 24-36 months to start fighting for this opportunity for your city.