Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

[the croucher]

Could my colleagues here please cross-check my research in case I've missed something ?

I think F Parkinson (Essendon/Collingwood) pre-WW1 needs changes made across a number of platforms and lists to both his official given names, and also the name he was commonly known by.

His full name is not Frederick. He was registered at birth as George Joshua Francis Parkinson as per Vic BDMs certificate 5390/1884, same upon marriage to Helen Frances Tickell certificate 540/1911, and at death certificate 14119/1913.
He is also listed by that name in Vic electoral rolls e.g. in 1909 electorate of Yarra, subdivision of Richmond Central living at 25 Swan Street Richmond occupation railway employee; and in 1913 electorate of Maribyrnong subdivision of Essendon living in Raleigh Street Essendon occupation railway employee.


And he should be known as Frank Parkinson, not Fred.
See the return thanks after his death placed by his widow Family Notices - Bendigo Advertiser (Vic. : 1855 - 1918) - 3 Nov 1913

and then the next year when his little daughter died he is again referred to as Frank Family Notices - The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) - 25 Mar 1914.

A year after his death the family “In Memoriam” notice again names him as Frank Family Notices - Bendigo Advertiser (Vic. : 1855 - 1918) - 22 Oct 1914

I've searched Trove for "Fred Parkinson" in decade or so prior to WW1 and cannot find any football connected refs to that name.

 

[the croucher]

Another name change post here..looks like Tim Curran (Fitzroy/St Kilda) pre WW1 should have both official and “known by” names corrected.

He should be listed as Tom Curran (Thomas Felix Curran).

Victorian BDMs have birth as Thomas Felix Curran certificate 9062/1875, same name at his marriage to Margaret Mary Egan certificate 4940/1904, same name at his death certificate 8580/1915

Victorian electoral rolls e.g. 1906 electorate of Batman subdivision Clifton Hill have him as Thomas Felix Curran 58 Spencely Street Clifton Hill occupation boot clicker and in 1912 electorate of Batman subdivision Clifton Hill have him as Thomas Felix Curran 105 Spensley Street Clifton Hill occupation boot clicker

Searching various family notices found same result,

When his mother died in 1909 he is listed as Thomas

Family Notices - The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) - 28 Dec 1909

trove.nla.gov.au

When his father died in 1926 he is listed as Thomas (deceased)

Family Notices - The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957) - 27 Mar 1926

trove.nla.gov.au

When his sister Catherine died in October 1939 he is listed in the family notice as Thomas

Family Notices - The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) - 14 Oct 1939

trove.nla.gov.au

A search of Trove did not reveal any football connected refs to either variation of name.

 

[35Daicos]

Could my colleagues here please cross-check my research in case I've missed something ?

I think F Parkinson (Essendon/Collingwood) pre-WW1 needs changes made across a number of platforms and lists to both his official given names, and also the name he was commonly known by.

His full name is not Frederick. He was registered at birth as George Joshua Francis Parkinson as per Vic BDMs certificate 5390/1884, same upon marriage to Helen Frances Tickell certificate 540/1911, and at death certificate 14119/1913.
He is also listed by that name in Vic electoral rolls e.g. in 1909 electorate of Yarra, subdivision of Richmond Central living at 25 Swan Street Richmond occupation railway employee; and in 1913 electorate of Maribyrnong subdivision of Essendon living in Raleigh Street Essendon occupation railway employee.


And he should be known as Frank Parkinson, not Fred.
See the return thanks after his death placed by his widow Family Notices - Bendigo Advertiser (Vic. : 1855 - 1918) - 3 Nov 1913

and then the next year when his little daughter died he is again referred to as Frank Family Notices - The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) - 25 Mar 1914.

A year after his death the family “In Memoriam” notice again names him as Frank Family Notices - Bendigo Advertiser (Vic. : 1855 - 1918) - 22 Oct 1914

I've searched Trove for "Fred Parkinson" in decade or so prior to WW1 and cannot find any football connected refs to that name.

This certainly looks like it checks out to me. It's hard to see where the "Fred" came from!

Strangely enough, there was another George Parkinson playing for Essendon (1913-14) not long after this unfortunate chap left that club.

 

[35Daicos]

Another name change post here..looks like Tim Curran (Fitzroy/St Kilda) pre WW1 should have both official and “known by” names corrected.

He should be listed as Tom Curran (Thomas Felix Curran).

Victorian BDMs have birth as Thomas Felix Curran certificate 9062/1875, same name at his marriage to Margaret Mary Egan certificate 4940/1904, same name at his death certificate 8580/1915

Victorian electoral rolls e.g. 1906 electorate of Batman subdivision Clifton Hill have him as Thomas Felix Curran 58 Spencely Street Clifton Hill occupation boot clicker and in 1912 electorate of Batman subdivision Clifton Hill have him as Thomas Felix Curran 105 Spensley Street Clifton Hill occupation boot clicker

Searching various family notices found same result,

When his mother died in 1909 he is listed as Thomas

Family Notices - The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) - 28 Dec 1909

trove.nla.gov.au

When his father died in 1926 he is listed as Thomas (deceased)

Family Notices - The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957) - 27 Mar 1926

trove.nla.gov.au

When his sister Catherine died in October 1939 he is listed in the family notice as Thomas

Family Notices - The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) - 14 Oct 1939

trove.nla.gov.au

A search of Trove did not reveal any football connected refs to either variation of name.

The same chap starred for Collingwood Juniors (1898-99): FOOTBALL UMPIRES, - League and Association. - Melbourne Punch (Vic. : 1855 - 1900) - 27 Jul 1899

Collingwood has him as Thomas in it's records, though aware this is the "Tim" Curran who played senior football for Fitzroy and St Kilda. Once again, it's hard to see where that name came from!

I see Thomas Felix had this chap as a brother:

 

[the croucher]

The same chap starred for Collingwood Juniors (1898-99): FOOTBALL UMPIRES, - League and Association. - Melbourne Punch (Vic. : 1855 - 1900) - 27 Jul 1899
View attachment 1595303
Collingwood has him as Thomas in it's records, though aware this is the "Tim" Curran who played senior football for Fitzroy and St Kilda. Once again, it's hard to see where that name came from!

I see Thomas Felix had this chap as a brother:
View attachment 1595314

Yes, I noticed that too about J T....but then checked the family notices and they all refer to him as John, not Tim or Timothy.

 

[35Daicos]

This is a rather minor one but still worth reporting:

He's listed here in no. 25: AFL Tables - Fitzroy v Geelong - Sat, 27-Jul-1940 2:30 PM - Match Stats

 

[the croucher]

This is a rather minor one but still worth reporting:
View attachment 1596309
He's listed here in no. 25: AFL Tables - Fitzroy v Geelong - Sat, 27-Jul-1940 2:30 PM - Match Stats
View attachment 1596313

Good pick up ! Minor compared to some other things we find, but might as well make information as accurate as possible.


I remember years ago in early days of Trove being online, and before I joined this forum, that there was a VFL match in the 30s I think where a South Melbourne player wore a different number to usual...searching in recent years I just cannot find the right "key words" in Trove to locate it again.

Will come across it again one day no doubt.

 

[35Daicos]

Good pick up ! Minor compared to some other things we find, but might as well make information as accurate as possible.


I remember years ago in early days of Trove being online, and before I joined this forum, that there was a VFL match in the 30s I think where a South Melbourne player wore a different number to usual...searching in recent years I just cannot find the right "key words" in Trove to locate it again.

Will come across it again one day no doubt.

Here's a South Melbourne one from the 1930s!:

AFL Tables and AustralianFootball.com have Hillis in 26. There's this (North Melbourne) one as well:

AFL Tables and AustralianFootball.com both have Stewart in 4, but Clark is in 14.

 

[the croucher]

Here's a South Melbourne one from the 1930s!:
View attachment 1598153
AFL Tables and AustralianFootball.com have Hillis in 26. There's this (North Melbourne) one as well:
View attachment 1598157
AFL Tables and AustralianFootball.com both have Stewart in 4, but Clark is in 14.

Oh, well done.
Yes, the Hillis (Sth Melb) one is the item I remember seeing some years ago.

And good to have the Nth Melb one noted too.

Thank you.

 

[ThePope]

Laurie Keene's birthday is 1 Feb on AFL Tables and Australian Football, but 2 January on Wikipedia.

His daughter on Facebook just confirmed that it's actually 2 January.





*Paul*
Oliver Gigacz

 

[rbartlett]

Can't recall who our wiki fixer is, but I just noticed that Jimmy Smith's wiki entry for Richmond has his wrong name.
He's not James "Jimmy" Smith, but he's Cyril James "Jimmy" Smith.

James Smith (Australian rules footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Can't recall who our wiki fixer is, but I just noticed that Jimmy Smith's wiki entry for Richmond has his wrong name.
He's not James "Jimmy" Smith, but he's Cyril James "Jimmy" Smith.

James Smith (Australian rules footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think ThePope is the one here.

 

[rbartlett]

Btw, is it just me, or has the Newspaper.com site now removed all issues of The Age after 1955?

 

[35Daicos]

Btw, is it just me, or has the Newspaper.com site now removed all issues of The Age after 1955?

Yikes! It's not just you. There's 102 years available - 1854 to 1955:

 

[rbartlett]

Yikes! It's not just you. There's 102 years available - 1854 to 1955:
View attachment 1607909

Well it must have only happened in the last week or so as we were working on 1970s Richmond Reserves stuff then

 

[35Daicos]

Well it must have only happened in the last week or so as we were working on 1970s Richmond Reserves stuff then

I think it might have even been in the last day or so. I wonder why they've done it, and is it going to stay that way?!

 

[rbartlett]

I

I think it might have even been in the last day or so. I wonder why they've done it, and is it going to stay that way?!

I sent them an email - let's see if they reply

 

[the croucher]

I

I sent them an email - let's see if they reply

I too have emailed them asking for re-assessment and an application of copyright standards in an even-handed manner. I noted that the Sydney Morning Herald issues are still visible until 2023 !

 

[rbartlett]

I too have emailed them asking for re-assessment and an application of copyright standards in an even-handed manner. I noted that the Sydney Morning Herald issues are still visible until 2023 !

Lets see if either of us get a reply

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Bill Jones played three games or Geelong in 1915.

From currently published dates of birth and death, it seems that the player has been identified as William David Jones, born in Williamstown on 11 May 1887 and died in Williamstown on 26 October 1979

From contemporary newspaper reports there is limited identifying information, but we do have:

1. The Geelong Advertiser match report after his first match referred to him as “the Inverleigh lad”
2. The Geelong Football Club annual report at the end of the 1915 season included that “during the season the following players have enlisted …. W. Jones”

The current person identified as the player resided in Williamstown, was 28 at the time he played (not really a lad?) and never enlisted to serve in WWI – it seems quite likely he has been mis-identified.

My searches on Trove didn’t show much as far as a Jones playing for Inverleigh – but there was a W. Jones who played for Bannockburn who seems a more likely candidate.

William Herbert Jones was born in Bannockburn in 1895 and enlisted to serve in WWI in mid-1915 in Geelong. He was injured a couple of times and suffered from trench foot before returning to Australia near the end of the war. He subsequently left the Geelong area around 1920 and moved to NSW.

He died in a tragic car accident in Molong, NSW in August 1941 along with his wife and children.

I think this person is a much better fit to what limited information we do have about the Geelong player - but would love it if we could find anything more conclusive.

 

[35Daicos]

Bill Jones played three games or Geelong in 1915.

From currently published dates of birth and death, it seems that the player has been identified as William David Jones, born in Williamstown on 11 May 1887 and died in Williamstown on 26 October 1979

From contemporary newspaper reports there is limited identifying information, but we do have:

1. The Geelong Advertiser match report after his first match referred to him as “the Inverleigh lad”
2. The Geelong Football Club annual report at the end of the 1915 season included that “during the season the following players have enlisted …. W. Jones”

The current person identified as the player resided in Williamstown, was 28 at the time he played (not really a lad?) and never enlisted to serve in WWI – it seems quite likely he has been mis-identified.

My searches on Trove didn’t show much as far as a Jones playing for Inverleigh – but there was a W. Jones who played for Bannockburn who seems a more likely candidate.

William Herbert Jones was born in Bannockburn in 1895 and enlisted to serve in WWI in mid-1915 in Geelong. He was injured a couple of times and suffered from trench foot before returning to Australia near the end of the war. He subsequently left the Geelong area around 1920 and moved to NSW.

He died in a tragic car accident in Molong, NSW in August 1941 along with his wife and children.

I think this person is a much better fit to what limited information we do have about the Geelong player - but would love it if we could find anything more conclusive.

There's a W. H. Jones (Geelong West) competing in a footballers' running race in 1913: JUNIOR FOOTBALLERS' 440 YARDS RACE. - Geelong Advertiser (Vic. : 1859 - 1929) - 28 Aug 1913

It looks like W. H. Jones from Bannockburn was a "sporty type":


There's quite a few entries on Trove around this time for a W. H. Jones doing well in running races, so it's likely to be the same chap.



It looks like he tried out at Geelong in 1914: PLAY AND PLAYERS - WHAT CLUBMEN ARE SAYING GOSSIP FROM THE GROUNDS - The Herald (Melbourne, Vic. : 1861 - 1954) - 29 May 1914


I don't think there's going to be much doubt that this is the Geelong player.

 

[35Daicos]

I think this should just about do it!:

That's W. H. Jones from Bannockburn, for sure! There's this as well FWIW:

 

[the croucher]

I think this should just about do it!:
View attachment 1611729
That's W. H. Jones from Bannockburn, for sure! There's this as well FWIW:
View attachment 1611756

And his World War One service record referred to earlier clinches it for William Herbert Jones as "weighty" about 181cm and 79kg

Ancestry family trees which are well-referenced have led to his birth certificate right at end of 1895

 

[the croucher]

Lets see if either of us get a reply

Still nothing from them...suspect we won't hear anything further !

 

[35Daicos]

Still nothing from them...suspect we won't here anything further !

Or maybe they'll just fix it!!:


It wasn't like that a few hours ago!