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List Mgmt. Contracts. Trades. Draft. Other Assorted Crap. 2020 Edition

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Obeanie1 I like your question on Williams, and have a question of like to put forward. For anyone else it's not a trade i would want one would it ever happen, just something to talk about in the off season. What do you put NN trade value at? If pick 1 was on the table would you consider seeing as his 30? Or if Crows offered 1 and 8 would you consider?
 
matt_bas said:
Obeanie1 I like your question on Williams, and have a question of like to put forward. For anyone else it's not a trade i would want one would it ever happen, just something to talk about in the off season. What do you put NN trade value at? If pick 1 was on the table would you consider seeing as his 30? Or if Crows offered 1 and 8 would you consider?
Click to expand...
For me Nic Nat is one of those guys who deserves to be a 1 club player and then transition into an off-field role, he's the soul of our team. I wouldn't trade him no matter what was on offer.
 
Godfather32 said:
For me Nic Nat is one of those guys who deserves to be a 1 club player and then transition into an off-field role, he's the soul of our team. I wouldn't trade him no matter what was on offer.
Click to expand...
Agree 100%, Eagles would never trade him and he would never leave. But let's say for argument sake he wanted out. What would you consider a trade value would be? A player and a pick? Just picks? Surely if GC came in with a Rowell/NN swap you would consider.
 
matt_bas said:
Agree 100%, Eagles would never trade him and he would never leave. But let's say for argument sake he wanted out. What would you consider a trade value would be? A player and a pick? Just picks? Surely if GC came in with a Rowell/NN swap you would consider.
Click to expand...
I think his play is only part of his value, to a team in one of the non-football states he's probably worth as much for his profile and marketing value despite his age. High 1st rounder and a young prospect at least.
 

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Dylan82 said:
Unfortunately the time to go after M.Pickett was years ago when he could have been selected with nothing more than our final pick in the rookie draft - instead for four years in succession the club went after crabs like Snadden, Gorter, Burrows and Smith.


The club has a deplorable history of overlooking talent that could have been procured in the rookie draft:

Rookie Draft Selections vs Availability
WAFL players highlighted in yellow.

View attachment 995068

View attachment 995079

W.Maginness over C.Cameron (Yes, that C.Cameron)
A re-rookied M.Newman over W.Rioli who just kicked 4 goals to win the NTFL Grand Final for St Marys?
A recycled K.Lucas over Adam Saad, K.Lambert or S.Menegola?
J.Snadden and B.Colledge over H.Greenwood and M.Pickett?
T.Gorter and F.McInnes over T.Kelly and L.Ryan?
R.Burrows over L.Baker? (That one still makes my blood boil)
Collingwood discard J.Smith over any of S.Stack, M.Pickett or J.Bolton?
A.Treacy and N.Reid over R.Bennell or B.Sokol?

It goes on and on in a shameful list failed selections and missed opportunities.

These are players that were (for the most part) mature-aged and right under the club's nose, and accordingly should have been well-known and well-scouted - that they were passed up entirely, often over multiple years is an indictment of our recruiting.


Who would you rather have playing against Collingwood in this year's Elimination Final? B.Ainsworth or J.Bolton? B.Ah Chee or J.Ramsay? J.Petrucelle or B.Sokol?

There are plenty of players out there in the secondary leagues who are superior to those that currently occupy places within the squad list.


The entire approach the club takes to rookie selections needs to be overhauled. Screw the hail-mary long shot "project" players or undersized injury-impacted "sliders". That far down the selection queue, taking such action is just throwing picks away. Leave the rookie draft for the selection of mature-agers and late-bloomers who have already battled their way against big bodies for years and are ready to have immediate impact and improve the squad.


The above only covers players that were available at the club's rookie selections and excludes the national draft and pick availability there entirely - I'll perhaps leave that for another time - but the point is clear that many of the selection decisions that have been made do leave a lot to be desired.

What grinds all the more is several of those above that could have been gained over the years at the lowest price are now key members of clubs that are our biggest rivals for premiership success.


But sure, let's give up our only backup ruckman that is capable of playing the full duration of match for M.Pickett.
Click to expand...

That 2014 RD for Richmond was a belter

Biggest mistake I reckon most recruiters make is looking for what players can't do, instead of at what they do well.

I don't disagree with any of your post. The one caveat i will say is that I doubt Ryan becomes the player he is now had he been picked up in an earlier draft and not received the kick in the pants being overlooked gave him.
 
Godfather32 said:
I think his play is only part of his value, to a team in one of the non-football states he's probably worth as much for his profile and marketing value despite his age. High 1st rounder and a young prospect at least.
Click to expand...
Agree, that's why it would never happen. I think that trade would be similar to the Judd Deal.
 
matt_bas said:
Obeanie1 I like your question on Williams, and have a question of like to put forward. For anyone else it's not a trade i would want one would it ever happen, just something to talk about in the off season. What do you put NN trade value at? If pick 1 was on the table would you consider seeing as his 30? Or if Crows offered 1 and 8 would you consider?
Click to expand...

No. You dont trade marque WA players especially champion ones with academy's named after them.
 
Generally speaking our rookie picks fall into four categories:
1) Other clubs’ discards or other mature age options who we think can fill a list need (e.g Smith, Brooksby, Lucas, Bennell, Treacy, Reid, Jones, Gorter)
2) Our own guys who we’ve delisted and moved to the rookie list, often because we’re contractually obligated to
3) Kids who’ve surprisingly slipped through the national draft (e.g O’Neill, Maginness, Mascoulis)
4) Complete roughies who no one had heard of pre-draft (e.g Edwards, Burrows, McGovern)

There’s certainly been some howlers in there and there’s a lot less hits than any of us would like.

But listing out every pick that didn’t pan out and the possible other options at that pick is a recipe to send yourself mad.

Especially if you include guys that still haven’t been picked up by anyone and tell yourself they would have made great AFL players, despite the fact no other club has thought them worth a draft pick either.
 
Yamumluvsbigcox said:
I don't even want marlion pickett . He just hacks the ball forward without looking. That is the Richmond game style.
Click to expand...

Not making comment on Pickett but it seems hacking the ball forward has been a fairly handy strategy for Richmond. While I reckon our best 22 includes more champions than Richmond they are a 'champion team'. Chaos ball - done well like Richmond - seems to be the game to beat now.
It's proven more successful than the precision kick and mark game (think Geel, WCE, Coll) - a game style not suited to short or narrow grounds, windy or wet or dewy conditions etc. Our style has not been able to consistently combat the 'chaos ball' game. Sure it's a high risk style but done well (like Richmond) it's a flag winner.

So we need to be thinking do we just stick with our old (good but outdated) Plan A or do we do what Clarkson successfully did and keep evolving the style? And then trying to find players to fit. Sure we have an over abundance of talls but will they give us a winning game style? Or should we trade some?

BTW our shortest player in our last match was Ryan (179cm). On Saturday night Richmond had six players 179 or less. Just sayin'.
 
Scotland said:
Our 'style' is possession football and long kicking.

Where we fall down is intensity. When we play our own game and go dial up the intensity when we lose the ball we look unstoppable. But that happened for a handful of quarters this year.
Click to expand...
Our style is possession and lots of sideways and backwards kicking.its just not working enough, i hope theres some changes over the off-season

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 
Dylan82 said:
Unfortunately the time to go after M.Pickett was years ago when he could have been selected with nothing more than our final pick in the rookie draft - instead for four years in succession the club went after crabs like Snadden, Gorter, Burrows and Smith.


The club has a deplorable history of overlooking talent that could have been procured in the rookie draft:

Rookie Draft Selections vs Availability
WAFL players highlighted in yellow.

View attachment 995068

View attachment 995079

W.Maginness over C.Cameron (Yes, that C.Cameron)
A re-rookied M.Newman over W.Rioli who just kicked 4 goals to win the NTFL Grand Final for St Marys?
A recycled K.Lucas over Adam Saad, K.Lambert or S.Menegola?
J.Snadden and B.Colledge over H.Greenwood and M.Pickett?
T.Gorter and F.McInnes over T.Kelly and L.Ryan?
R.Burrows over L.Baker? (That one still makes my blood boil)
Collingwood discard J.Smith over any of S.Stack, M.Pickett or J.Bolton?
A.Treacy and N.Reid over R.Bennell or B.Sokol?

It goes on and on in a shameful list failed selections and missed opportunities.

These are players that were (for the most part) mature-aged and right under the club's nose, and accordingly should have been well-known and well-scouted - that they were passed up entirely, often over multiple years is an indictment of our recruiting.


Who would you rather have playing against Collingwood in this year's Elimination Final? B.Ainsworth or J.Bolton? B.Ah Chee or J.Ramsay? J.Petrucelle or B.Sokol?

There are plenty of players out there in the secondary leagues who are superior to those that currently occupy places within the squad list.


The entire approach the club takes to rookie selections needs to be overhauled. Screw the hail-mary long shot "project" players or undersized injury-impacted "sliders". That far down the selection queue, taking such action is just throwing picks away. Leave the rookie draft for the selection of mature-agers and late-bloomers who have already battled their way against big bodies for years and are ready to have immediate impact and improve the squad.


The above only covers players that were available at the club's rookie selections and excludes the national draft and pick availability there entirely - I'll perhaps leave that for another time - but the point is clear that many of the selection decisions that have been made do leave a lot to be desired.

What grinds all the more is several of those above that could have been gained over the years at the lowest price are now key members of clubs that are our biggest rivals for premiership success.


But sure, let's give up our only backup ruckman that is capable of playing the full duration of match for M.Pickett.
Click to expand...
Depressing and no, I do not expect to nail every draft pick and especially the rookies. But 2 picks in 7 years is depressing.

I count Edwards as a potential win and Petrie as a win considering what we needed.
 

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matt_bas said:
Obeanie1 I like your question on Williams, and have a question of like to put forward. For anyone else it's not a trade i would want one would it ever happen, just something to talk about in the off season. What do you put NN trade value at? If pick 1 was on the table would you consider seeing as his 30? Or if Crows offered 1 and 8 would you consider?
Click to expand...

As a player alone, turning 31 with a history of x2 ACLs significantly reduces his value, perhaps to no more than a second round pick at best.

With that in mind, if another club were to offer a top 10 pick (let alone x2) for him, from an emotionless numbers perspective it makes very little sense to keep him unless having him in the team places you directly within the premiership mix.


However his impact on the field is only partial to the level of importance that he has at the club. He is a leader that has been there for 11 years, mentoring and coaching not just football, but life. He remains the most recognisable player in the competition and has been the face of the club for a decade. His foundation and ambassadorial work go well beyond football to help improve lives in the community. For a lack of a better term, he is the physical embodiment of the "soul" of the club - and that lies beyond any kind of tradeable value.


matt_bas said:
Agree 100%, Eagles would never trade him and he would never leave. But let's say for argument sake he wanted out. What would you consider a trade value would be? A player and a pick? Just picks? Surely if GC came in with a Rowell/NN swap you would consider.
Click to expand...

Fold the club. If he wanted out, it would mean that something very rotten had happened to it.

But for the sake of the question, if he were compelled to leave you would be trying to maximise what you could get in return. Due to his age you wouldn't get much for him in picks, so a player swap would probably be the best way to get a deal.

Either player + pick swap or x2 players depending on how close to premiership you are (i.e. trade for talented player plus serviceable ready-made ruckman).

The Rowell example you offer would be one of the most one-sided trades in history - a player that has perhaps 15 years of elite football still to come versus another that has perhaps 2 or 3 more seasons within them at most.
 
The Rookie Draft is where it’s all falling apart? Really?

Basically the leftovers and recycled players from each draft class that occasionally uncovers a diamond in the rough?

The last 10 years (at least) has proven nailing your first round picks and trading wisely (or of course now just signing free agents..) is more likely to bring you success.
 

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Biggie said:
www.afl.com.au

Trade Period state of play: Your club's targets, who's on the table

AFL.com.au's reporters look at how every team is placed ahead of the AFL Trade Period, which runs from November 4-12
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
Click to expand...

It's pretty lazy (although not surprising) reporting.

Geelong have wanted Brander for 2 years now, and we are going to give him up for Clark - a guy that can't make their team?

I think we should really look at trading Hickey if he is open to it. He's a good, solid player - but the reality is we have little-to-no currency (in the draft, and for trades) and have 5 ruckmen on our list (and, like the rest of the comp, have moved to playing 1 ruck and a backup). It is too many.
 
Cuzz09 said:
Surely we just persist with Brander now.

Id be annoyed if we trade him.

Give him games next year.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

We used a first round pick on him, have put three years of development into him, and people are saying swap him for a guy that is not in the best 22 at Geelong.
In essence saying, have our first round pick in 2017 (Brander), our first round pick in 2019 and our first round pick in 2020 for Kelly and some outside the fringe guy.

Yeah, good trading, good use of development and great common sense.

If I'm honest we'd be best off playing Brander as full forward and have JK used sparingly. Accept 2021 as a year to get games into a lot of new and developing guys. Last time we did that was 2018, and that didn't turn out too badly.
 
Altum Volantes said:
The Rookie Draft is where it’s all falling apart? Really?

Basically the leftovers and recycled players from each draft class that occasionally uncovers a diamond in the rough?

The last 10 years (at least) has proven nailing your first round picks and trading wisely (or of course now just signing free agents..) is more likely to bring you success.
Click to expand...
Except in the two Grand Final sides you’ve got players taken in recent rookie drafts making an impact like Short, Lambert, Castagna, Baker, Henry, Simpson, and then Atkins who didn’t play but was best 22 for Geelong for most of the year.

last decade’s power sides Sydney and to a lesser extent Hawthorn also had several rookies playing in their premiership teams.

It’s fair to say WC doesn’t use the rookie draft as well as other recently successful sides.
 
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