Steven Silvagni: Football's Biggest Fraud

[Freomaniac]

Seeing as we did it via the draft, most of the new list is like 18-22. Curnow, Walsh, McKay, SPS, Dow, LOB, Setters, Weitering, Stocker, Fisher etc. Our best player is 24.

If we were even close to playing finals already it's a 10 year dynasty in the making. Players don't generally have an impact till 4-5 pre seasons and at around 100 games.

Did you miss the improvement this year after Bolton was sacked?

We're tracking nicely. We could give finals a shake next year and hopefully can trade in a gun player or two next year and push for even more wins in 2021. By then the kids above will be much more AFL hardened and 20-25 years old.

Like this thread is an absolute joke.

Sounds about right. Its similar to freos rebuild to be honest.

Freo started their rebuild in 2016, and like carlton, the 1st year of the draft in that rebuild, we got a few Key position players.

 

[Dadda Dave]

Did you know Ben Cunnington is actually a better player than Greg Williams?

Again..Lel.
In his own lunch box maybe.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Did you know Ben Cunnington is actually a better player than Greg Williams?

Really? According to who?

 

[THE_GUN]

2015 round 1 side.

Clem Smith, Simon White, Cameron Wood, Tom Bell, Kristian Jaksch, Andrejs Everitt.

Probably not the same amount of plodders but a big difference is that we had a severe lack of stars and our youth was non-existent.

But the carlton round 1 team in 2015 included
Judd , Kreuzer , Murphy , Gibbs , Curnow , Simpson , Docherty , Tuohy , Henderson , Yarran , Thomas , Cripps , Bell , Jones
8 of these players are still on the list and another 3 more were still playing afl in 2019

I think the the tigers list was a bit worse in 2010

 

[TonaldDrump]

But the carlton round 1 team in 2015 included
Judd , Kreuzer , Murphy , Gibbs , Curnow , Simpson , Docherty , Tuohy , Henderson , Yarran , Thomas , Cripps , Bell , Jones
8 of these players are still on the list and another 3 more were still playing afl in 2019

I think the the tigers list was a bit worse in 2010

That's one of the stupidest comparisons I've even seen. There's obviously going to be more players still on AFL lists if they were playing in 2015, as compared to 2010.

 

[Rich01]

That's one of the stupidest comparisons I've even seen. There's obviously going to be more players still on AFL lists if they were playing in 2015, as compared to 2010.

Carlton’s round one 2016 side was significantly better than the round one side Dimma had at his disposal in 2010.

B: J. Weitering, M. Jamison, Z. Tuohy

HB: B. Gibbs, S. Rowe, A. Everitt

C: S. Docherty, E. Curnow, K. Simpson

HF: J. Lamb, L. Casboult, P. Cripps

F: A. Walker, M. Kreuzer, S. Kerridge

R: A. Phillips, M. Wright, M. Murphy

I/C: D. Buckley, B. Boekhorst, N. Graham, S. White

EMG: C. Curnow, C. Smith, M. Whiley

Richmond made finals 4 years in and Carlton are hoping to be ‘knocking on the door of the eight’ at the end of five years.

Talk about tempered expectations.

 

[TonaldDrump]

Carlton’s round one 2016 side was significantly better than the round one side Dimma had at his disposal in 2010.

B: J. Weitering, M. Jamison, Z. Tuohy

HB: B. Gibbs, S. Rowe, A. Everitt

C: S. Docherty, E. Curnow, K. Simpson

HF: J. Lamb, L. Casboult, P. Cripps

F: A. Walker, M. Kreuzer, S. Kerridge

R: A. Phillips, M. Wright, M. Murphy

I/C: D. Buckley, B. Boekhorst, N. Graham, S. White

EMG: C. Curnow, C. Smith, M. Whiley

Richmond made finals 4 years in and Carlton are hoping to be ‘knocking on the door of the eight’ at the end of five years.

Talk about tempered expectations.

So your saying that those Carlton players are better than Edwards, Riewoldt, Martin, Cotchin, Rance, Richardson, Deledio, Cousins, Tuck, Jackson, Newman, Foley, McMahon and Simmonds?

Your probably gonna say that most of those players were young at the time.... So were the Carlton's players. Cripps had only played 10 or so games up until that point and was coming off a broken leg.

By looking at those two lists, Richmond's looks significantly better than any Carlton team for the last 5 years.

 

[Rich01]

So your saying that those Carlton players are better than Edwards, Riewoldt, Martin, Cotchin, Rance, Richardson, Deledio, Cousins, Tuck, Jackson, Newman, Foley, McMahon and Simmonds?

Your probably gonna say that most of those players were young at the time.... So were the Carlton's players. Cripps had only played 10 or so games up until that point and was coming off a broken leg.

By looking at those two lists, Richmond's looks significantly better than any Carlton team for the last 5 years.

Not sure what list you are looking at.
Richardson never played with Martin.
Here’s our round one 2010 side...

FB: Shane Edwards, Kelvin Moore, Chris Newman
HB: Mitch Farmer, Luke McGuane, Will Thursfield
C: Dustin Martin, Brett Deledio, Ben Nason
HF: Tom Hislop, Jack Riewoldt, Richard Tambling
FF: Relton Roberts, Mitch Morton, Robin Nahas
Fol: Troy Simmonds, Daniel Jackson, Trent Cotchin
Int: Tyrone Vickery, Ben Cousins, Daniel Connors, Adam Thomson
Emg:: Dean Polo, Graham Polak, Matt White

Dusty was playing his first game along with Relton. Just after this the media wrote us off as worse than Fitzroy.

 

[Cdog71]

Carlton’s round one 2016 side was significantly better than the round one side Dimma had at his disposal in 2010.

B: J. Weitering, M. Jamison, Z. Tuohy

HB: B. Gibbs, S. Rowe, A. Everitt

C: S. Docherty, E. Curnow, K. Simpson

HF: J. Lamb, L. Casboult, P. Cripps

F: A. Walker, M. Kreuzer, S. Kerridge

R: A. Phillips, M. Wright, M. Murphy

I/C: D. Buckley, B. Boekhorst, N. Graham, S. White

EMG: C. Curnow, C. Smith, M. Whiley

Richmond made finals 4 years in and Carlton are hoping to be ‘knocking on the door of the eight’ at the end of five years.

Talk about tempered expectations.

That was the year Bombers had to field a team without the 12 of their list had to sit out the season, Carlton won 7 games and lost 5 by 12 points or less and pretty much all those losses they were in front in the last quarter at some point.
SOS had two full seasons there by the end of 2016 and as of right now they’ve got 13 players still on the list from the end of that year and if you look at the age bracket there of Simpson, Murphy, Kreuzer, Casboult, Curnow and others they’ve gone through heaps of players.
Fair argument the strategy from the list developers has sent them backwards.

 

[roacheee]

is the OP implying that SOS has a good reputation?

read the carlton board
they have a great list that was definitely going to make the finals in '18 & '19
and will 100% win a final in '20

 

[Thuggee_Cult]

No.
Our round one team in 2010 consisted of names such as:

Ben Nason, Relton Roberts, Mitch Farmer, Tom Hislop, Kelvin Moore, Adam Thomson, Daniel Connors, Richard Tambling, Tyrone Vickery, Dan Jackson, Luke McGuane, Mitch Morton, Will Thursfield and Robin Nahas.

How does this compare to your round 1 2016 side?

That’s premiership player Mitch Morton thanks .

Funnily enough I posted on the Brendan Bolton sacked thread that he arguably had a better team in Round 1, 2016 than the last team he coaches this year.

 

[Uggars]

I agree that is drafting has been ok or even good. When you have multiple first round picks since every year you've been in charge you're eventually going to get one or two right. It would be impossible not to get at least 1 or 2 good players.

However, his inability to get played traded to his club is completely amateur. They missed out on, Saad, Smith, Shiel, Cognilio, Gaff, Kelly, Papley and Martin. If they had even got 2 of those players in they would be a chance for the 8 in 2020.

Would rather Walsh over Shiel any day. Everyone missed out on Cognilio, Kelly and Gaff. Papley we'll get next year. Martin will be a blue by the end of November.

 

[Royce Hafey]

Similar numbers at the same stage of development.

Dow is very similar at extracting ball and burst out of stoppage to Danger. Not as effective forward. He only just turned 20 so let’s wait and see hey..

Dusty wasn’t that great at 20.

WTF? At 20 years old in 2011 Dusty averaged 22.1 disposals and 1.5 goals a game.

Paddy Dow and Dustin Martin AFL Stats Comparison

Paddy Dow and Dustin Martin AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[Robertio]

WTF? At 20 years old in 2011 Dusty averaged 22.1 disposals and 1.5 goals a game.

Paddy Dow and Dustin Martin AFL Stats Comparison

Paddy Dow and Dustin Martin AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Settle down mate, he probably meant that he wasn't as great as he is now.

 

[Royce Hafey]

Settle down mate, he probably meant that he wasn't as great as he is now.

You can make up what you would like him to have meant to say. What he actually posted was an observation about Martin at the same age (who was so much better than Dow as to make any such comparison ridiculous) to somehow imply that a similar level of improvement could be expected of Dow. If all he wanted to say was that all players improve with age, then why bring up Dusty? In any case, Dusty's not that good an example. His second year (which Leigh Matthews at the time described as the best second year from a player he'd ever see) wasn't that much different statistically to this year - 4 less disposals per game but 1.5 goals compared to one.

 

[toonozandy]

According to Tom Morris, SILVAGNI will be (HOPEFULLY) leaving very, very soon....

‘Stern conversation’ that has added fuel to fire Carlton list boss Stephen Silvagni is on the way out
Carlton list manager Stephen Silvagni and president Mark LoGiudice had a “stern conversation” amid speculation SOS is on the way out.


Back in June the future of Carlton list manager Stephen Silvagni was at a crossroads.
A meeting with club president Mark LoGiudice on Tuesday has only added fuel to the speculation Silvagni could be on his way out, according to foxfooty.com.au chief footy reporter Tom Morris.
“He met with Mark LoGiudice today, I’m told, at Industry Beans in Fitzroy,” Morris said on Sportsday.
“I’m told very reliably that it was a very stern conversation. I’m interested in Stephen Silvagni’s future at Carlton. This is not locked and loaded that he’ll be there next year.”
The Blues’ most recent trade period could only be described as lacklustre, with the club failing to land GWS free agent Stephen Coniglio, while also missing out on Sydney’s Tom Papley and Gold Coast’s Jack Martin.
Caroline Wilson said she understood Silvagni “was looking at leaving the Carlton Football Club” last week, suggesting a fractured relationship with Cain Liddle could be to blame.
“I don’t think it was all harmonious over the trade period,” Wilson said.
“I’m not sure that he’s always on the same page as the CEO Cain Liddle, and I don’t think that they agreed on all the philosophies to do with the rebuilding of the list and the football club.”
Liddle painted an inauspicious for Silvagni when coach Brendon Bolton was sacked earlier this year.
Despite this, it’s more likely Silvagni would leave Carlton on his own accord than face a similar fate to Bolton.
“We’re reviewing all parts of the football club,” Liddle said in June.
“The reality is we’ve won four games in our last 40 (43), and our members expect that we’re going to review every element of our football club, and that’s what we’ve been doing and what we’re going to continue to do.”

 

[Robertio]

According to Tom Morris, SILVAGNI will be (HOPEFULLY) leaving very, very soon....

‘Stern conversation’ that has added fuel to fire Carlton list boss Stephen Silvagni is on the way out
Carlton list manager Stephen Silvagni and president Mark LoGiudice had a “stern conversation” amid speculation SOS is on the way out.


Back in June the future of Carlton list manager Stephen Silvagni was at a crossroads.
A meeting with club president Mark LoGiudice on Tuesday has only added fuel to the speculation Silvagni could be on his way out, according to foxfooty.com.au chief footy reporter Tom Morris.
“He met with Mark LoGiudice today, I’m told, at Industry Beans in Fitzroy,” Morris said on Sportsday.
“I’m told very reliably that it was a very stern conversation. I’m interested in Stephen Silvagni’s future at Carlton. This is not locked and loaded that he’ll be there next year.”
The Blues’ most recent trade period could only be described as lacklustre, with the club failing to land GWS free agent Stephen Coniglio, while also missing out on Sydney’s Tom Papley and Gold Coast’s Jack Martin.
Caroline Wilson said she understood Silvagni “was looking at leaving the Carlton Football Club” last week, suggesting a fractured relationship with Cain Liddle could be to blame.
“I don’t think it was all harmonious over the trade period,” Wilson said.
“I’m not sure that he’s always on the same page as the CEO Cain Liddle, and I don’t think that they agreed on all the philosophies to do with the rebuilding of the list and the football club.”
Liddle painted an inauspicious for Silvagni when coach Brendon Bolton was sacked earlier this year.
Despite this, it’s more likely Silvagni would leave Carlton on his own accord than face a similar fate to Bolton.
“We’re reviewing all parts of the football club,” Liddle said in June.
“The reality is we’ve won four games in our last 40 (43), and our members expect that we’re going to review every element of our football club, and that’s what we’ve been doing and what we’re going to continue to do.”

 

[SickQwon]

It's genuinly amazing how we're getting Martin for free. Can't imagine how many shitty managers (at least 17) would've given up pick 9. Thank god we have the GOAT.

 

[THE_GUN]

That's one of the stupidest comparisons I've even seen. There's obviously going to be more players still on AFL lists if they were playing in 2015, as compared to 2010.

You clearly didnt get the point and might want to have a read properly
It was in reference to the quality that was on the list at the time of the rebuild starting and the fact these players are still playing indicates the depth of quality

But i did just reply to one of the most " stupidest" posts appropriate user name by the way

 

[THE_GUN]

So your saying that those Carlton players are better than Edwards, Riewoldt, Martin, Cotchin, Rance, Richardson, Deledio, Cousins, Tuck, Jackson, Newman, Foley, McMahon and Simmonds?

Your probably gonna say that most of those players were young at the time.... So were the Carlton's players. Cripps had only played 10 or so games up until that point and was coming off a broken leg.

By looking at those two lists, Richmond's looks significantly better than any Carlton team for the last 5 years.

Wow
Richardson retired in 2009
Cousins retired in 2010 and played a handful of games
Martin was a new draftee that never played a game
Tuck & Jackson were both plodders
Simmons - Also Retired in 2010 also a plodder
McMahon - Also retired in 2010 and was rubbish

Maybe do some research and dont be so lazy with your posts

 

[THE_GUN]

So you're saying that Carlton's 2016 list has more quality than Richmond's list who had Martin, Cotchin, Rance, Edwards ect.

You really are stupid

Go back home son its pointless to debate with you as you are clueless

 

[THE_GUN]

It's genuinly amazing how we're getting Martin for free. Can't imagine how many shitty managers (at least 17) would've given up pick 9. Thank god we have the GOAT.

Nahh we get them for free also

Stack & Pickett

 

[toonozandy]

SILVAGNI is hopeless

 

[Dadda Dave]

SILVAGNI is hopeless

Very well thought out post this one ..
WOW....just wowweeee..
And from a Carlton supporter..

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Agree. Hardwick inherited a list that in 2010 was labelled by some as worse than Fitzroy when it folded.

3 seasons later he sent this same team to the finals and finished top 8 for three consecutive years.

Carlton are going into year five of their rebuild under SOS. If they haven’t made finals after five years, there should be questions asked on the strategy of the list build.

Hardwick inherited a list with Deledio, Martin, Riewoldt, Rance, Cotchin, Edwards, Astbury and Grimes already on it.

At the end of 2015 our young talent was Cripps, Docherty, Menzel, Jaksch, Watson, Boekhurst and Buckley.

Just a tad disingenuous.