Current Trial Wonnangatta - Murders of Russell Hill & Carol Clay *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty

[Kurve]

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Disappearance of Barwon Prison Boss David Prideaux - High Country Mount Stirling
Hit and Run Death of Bryce Airs - High Country Jamieson

Israel Keyes

On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Badd0g]

Some Tuesday night musings...
Lets assume for a minute that GL's account has some truth to it...Given what we have discussed about the requirements of keeping guns/ammo safe while in transit (or outside of the home), and the requirement to take reasonable precautions to ensure a gun is not lost or stolen, wouldn't having an unsecured gun with live ammunition readily accessible nearby, constitute a breach of duty of care to those in the vicinity? And if so, does this give the prosecution the opportunity to go for Negligent or Involuntary manslaughter, where they only need prove that a death was caused by negligent behaviour of the accused?

The Legal Definition of Murder and the Different Degrees of Murder Charges

What actually is murder? And what are the different degrees of murder charges. Find out in our latest blog.

galballyparker.com.au

 

[Terrafirma]

Some Tuesday night musings...
Lets assume for a minute that GL's account has some truth to it...Given what we have discussed about the requirements of keeping guns/ammo safe while in transit (or outside of the home), and the requirement to take reasonable precautions to ensure a gun is not lost or stolen, wouldn't having an unsecured gun with live ammunition readily accessible nearby, constitute a breach of duty of care to those in the vicinity? And if so, does this give the prosecution the opportunity to go for Negligent or Involuntary manslaughter, where they only need prove that a death was caused by negligent behaviour of the accused?

The Legal Definition of Murder and the Different Degrees of Murder Charges

What actually is murder? And what are the different degrees of murder charges. Find out in our latest blog.

galballyparker.com.au

Good point. It's early days and I know the defense has seen the evidence brief but is there something else the Prosecution could have as their Hail Mary Moment...? For example the defense has seen the evidence but does that include a Forensics/Ballistics Analyst who could say Lynn's killing of Clay via accidental gunshot is not possible based on ABCDE etc..?

 

[MrsBlueSky]

Some Tuesday night musings...
Lets assume for a minute that GL's account has some truth to it...Given what we have discussed about the requirements of keeping guns/ammo safe while in transit (or outside of the home), and the requirement to take reasonable precautions to ensure a gun is not lost or stolen, wouldn't having an unsecured gun with live ammunition readily accessible nearby, constitute a breach of duty of care to those in the vicinity? And if so, does this give the prosecution the opportunity to go for Negligent or Involuntary manslaughter, where they only need prove that a death was caused by negligent behaviour of the accused?

The Legal Definition of Murder and the Different Degrees of Murder Charges

What actually is murder? And what are the different degrees of murder charges. Find out in our latest blog.

galballyparker.com.au

I'd imagine he would have had to take a gun cabinet to his camp to store his guns safely.
But if he just returned from hunting with his gun and an altercation took place then that wouldn't constitute negligence in regards to the storage.

My musing is this: If the juror who was discharged was sick with Covid made three other members sick (or three more get sick and have to be discharged in the next month or so) then would that mean the trial would be aborted?

 

[Zidane98]

If the prosecution can neutralise the defence's argument of 'My client told the police where the bodies were!' with self interested reasoning of why he did that, it will help them and we were discussing what relevance this deer hunting map in a plastic bag that the defence is introducing, has.

Lynn's actions aren't of a man who was interested in helping the police so what was it that finally tipped him over in to showing them that he actually didnt just dispose of the old couple, but he dismembered, mutilated, burned and crushed them to bits over eight months?

Only GL knows why he gave up the location of the remains to the coppers.


One thing is certain - it didn't help him legally to do so.

 

[Terrafirma]

Great point. What was the trigger for GL to tell police where the bodies were? If he came forward out of self-guilt, that would certainly hold far more empathetic weight than simply responding after being caught out to the point of knowing the jig was up (or close to).

A few things possibly? One is the Police had him with evidence and he knew that. So they forced his hand. Secondly if he claimed self defense and accidental deaths then it stands to reason to give up the bodies otherwise it looks more like murder. They tell him what are Melanie and your children going to think if you don't disclose the location of their remains. He can't deny he wasn't there and they have Hill's phone pinging with his car going through Hotham, he's cooked at this stage and he knows it. To me he has to play ball and conversely the Police have to charge him with murder with him believing he can defend the case as we see it today. There could be other factors perhaps the guilt of what happened and how he acted afterwards had become a unbearable load, if it didn't then he would be as cold blooded as some think IMO

 

[MiguelM]

Only GL knows why he gave up the location of the remains to the coppers.


One thing is certain - it didn't help him legally to do so.

Maybe they had the map?

From memory police did not spend much time at the site when the bodies were found. Wonder why?

 

[revo333]

Only GL knows why he gave up the location of the remains to the coppers.


One thing is certain - it didn't help him legally to do so.

Probably thought giving up the bodies makes it more believable that it was an accidental murder.

 

[revo333]

I'd be so deflated if more jurors got sick and the trial got delayed or had to start over again at a later time.

 

[LeChatNoir]

GL himself admits leaving just before midnight doesn't he? It fits his story, left in a panic etc tried to exit via Abbeyard, got stuck at gate. Instead of unhitching he created a huge racket trying to turn around with the trailer on.

What are the reasons that Lynn might have murdered Hill & Clay? There have been many theories in the media and by posters to this forum.

So I decided to make a list.

1. Lynn camped on the site that Hill wanted and Hill started an argument about it.
2. Hill & Clay camped too close to Lynn and that started an argument.
3. Hill flew his drone over Lynn's camp and that started an argument.
4. Hill photographed Lynn, (with the drone), illegally hunting and Lynn wanted the footage and that started an argument.
5. Lynn saw Hill flying the drone and being a senior pilot was annoyed and knew Hill was doing it illegally and that started an argument.
6. Hill strung his radio aerial across the track that Lynn had to travel and that caused an argument.
7. Lynn played music too loudly at his camp and which infuriated Hill and that caused an argument.
8. Hill was a cranky old bugger and would start an argument over anything.

I'm sure there are more theories, but that's all I can think of at present.

9. Lynn just wanted to kill them because he could. No reason required.

 

[Eaglette01]

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/greg-lynn-trial-jury-told-russell-hills-wife-and-daughter-to-give-evidence/news-story/e69cfd53c351b9dbf870f3e4a3c35c2b

Old Russell really was a crap human when it came to his wife.

And, she helped him pack his bag for the HC (alone time - lol.... liar liar). Hill was happy - of course he was - having his cake and eating it ! "packed lunch - water bag & no elephant gun"

He should have divorced her.

Ultimate kick in the teeth - what a terrible betrayal, all his lies for all those years to the wife.

I trust she's got all his Superannuation, the house and Psychological help and has great family surrounding her.

 

[LeChatNoir]

A few things possibly? One is the Police had him with evidence and he knew that. So they forced his hand. Secondly if he claimed self defense and accidental deaths then it stands to reason to give up the bodies otherwise it looks more like murder. They tell him what are Melanie and your children going to think if you don't disclose the location of their remains. He can't deny he wasn't there and they have Hill's phone pinging with his car going through Hotham, he's cooked at this stage and he knows it. To me he has to play ball and conversely the Police have to charge him with murder with him believing he can defend the case as we see it today. There could be other factors perhaps the guilt of what happened and how he acted afterwards had become a unbearable load, if it didn't then he would be as cold blooded as some think IM

Great point. What was the trigger for GL to tell police where the bodies were? If he came forward out of self-guilt, that would certainly hold far more empathetic weight than simply responding after being caught out to the point of knowing the jig was up (or close to)

If the prosecution can neutralise the defence's argument of 'My client told the police where the bodies were!' with self interested reasoning of why he did that, it will help them and we were discussing what relevance this deer hunting map in a plastic bag that the defence is introducing, has.

Lynn's actions aren't of a man who was interested in helping the police so what was it that finally tipped him over in to showing them that he actually didnt just dispose of the old couple, but he dismembered, mutilated, burned and crushed them to bits over eight months?

If the prosecution can neutralise the defence's argument of 'My client told the police where the bodies were!' with self interested reasoning of why he did that, it will help them and we were discussing what relevance this deer hunting map in a plastic bag that the defence is introducing, has.

Lynn's actions aren't of a man who was interested in helping the police so what was it that finally tipped him over in to showing them that he actually didnt just dispose of the old couple, but he dismembered, mutilated, burned and crushed them to bits over eight months?

Great point. What was the trigger for GL to tell police where the bodies were? If he came forward out of self-guilt, that would certainly hold far more empathetic weight than simply responding after being caught out to the point of knowing the jig was up (or close to).

To stop them from looking where he didn't want them to look. What secrets does the this beautiful wilderness keep?

PS: did anyone else see the irony of poor Russell who spent a great deal of his life cutting down trees, getting buried at the root of a fallen tree....

 

[Badd0g]

I'd imagine he would have had to take a gun cabinet to his camp to store his guns safely.
But if he just returned from hunting with his gun and an altercation took place then that wouldn't constitute negligence in regards to the storage.

My musing is this: If the juror who was discharged was sick with Covid made three other members sick (or three more get sick and have to be discharged in the next month or so) then would that mean the trial would be aborted?

Thats not his line though... He says RH took the gun and ammo from his car where it was clearly unsecured. One would think the standard of a reasonable person (who would be a licenced gun user in this case) would be to take all reasonable steps to secure both. In not meeting that standard, he has failed in his duty of care. CC died as a result of that breach, ergo Negligent manslaughter.

I'd think the prosecution would push for an ajournment if the numbers fell below 12. There must be a precedent for it somewhere.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

“. there was a couple of things that didn’t sit right.”

He looked in the esky and saw food.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Probably thought giving up the bodies makes it more believable that it was an accidental murder.

Would only do it if it benefited him. Realised that they had him dead to rights and if he gave up things like location of remains it helps him marginally with his bullshit story.

Hey look tried to get away with it but here’s some information that shows I’m not a bad guy. lol.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

He looked in the esky and saw food.

Ah

 

[EagleEyes1]

Only thing it really adds from other reports (Guardian, ABC, Daily Mail) is...

"Police officer’s tour of campsite: Burnt remains but no blood​

During other evidence on Tuesday, crime scene officer Sergeant Matthew Tanner described Bucks Camp to the jury.

He said that on March 28, 2020, he visited the campsite and found a white Toyota LandCruiser with fire damage to one side and a wire strung off the back and high into a nearby tree. He believed this was an antenna for a high-frequency radio.

In photographs shown to the jury, Tanner pointed out items in the fire wreckage including burnt solar panels, a camping stove, gas cylinders, an electronic tablet and buckets.

Inside the cabin of the ute was a black leather wallet in the driver’s side footwell, with cards scattered underneath, and an open green wallet in the passenger footwell with Clay’s driver’s licence and Medicare card inside.
Dann asked about the canopy of the ute, which Lynn claims was open when Clay was accidentally shot. Tanner said he did not see any blood stains or human tissue in that area."
*Bolded by me

Lying Lynn at it again. I don’t think the canopy was open or it would have had forensic evidence within the inside. The canopy was closed as it was burnt from the outside to rid this evidence. Only Lynn didn’t see under the canopy in the dark hence where Clays dna was found.

IMO

 

[Lady O]

Lying Lynn at it again. I don’t think the canopy was open or it would have had forensic evidence within the inside. The canopy was closed as it was burnt from the outside to rid this evidence. Only Lynn didn’t see under the canopy in the dark hence where Clays dna was found.

IMO

This is one of the photos from the trial, showing the esky in place and the canopy open.

 

[Pamcake1]

Lying Lynn at it again. I don’t think the canopy was open or it would have had forensic evidence within the inside. The canopy was closed as it was burnt from the outside to rid this evidence. Only Lynn didn’t see under the canopy in the dark hence where Clays dna was found.

IMO

IMO I believe that the side flap of the 4WD was open when the incident happened, that is for certain.
The main photo that we have all seen, that was released by the police initially, has some fire damage to the side, but as one can see that is where the ropes that tied the canopy across were burnt. They would not burn in such a straight pattern as to be outlined clearly if it was closed as you would see a more diffuse scorching over the whole side hatch panel.
So to me it looks like it was open when the fire happened and that would also account for the fact that forensics said that the parts of human tissue found (in/on) were 'unusable' because of fire damage.
All speculation until we get to the forensic evidence.

 

[EagleEyes1]

This is one of the photos from the trial, showing the esky in place and the canopy open.

View attachment 1996493

The inside of the canopy is not burnt. Only the outside. There was no forensic dna on the inside of the canopy. If Clay’s dna was on the underside of the canopy and the canopy was open then this implies Clay was even lower to the ground when she was shot, possibly even head to the ground.

 

[Kurve]

A few things possibly? One is the Police had him with evidence and he knew that. So they forced his hand. Secondly if he claimed self defense and accidental deaths then it stands to reason to give up the bodies otherwise it looks more like murder. They tell him what are Melanie and your children going to think if you don't disclose the location of their remains. He can't deny he wasn't there and they have Hill's phone pinging with his car going through Hotham, he's cooked at this stage and he knows it. To me he has to play ball and conversely the Police have to charge him with murder with him believing he can defend the case as we see it today. There could be other factors perhaps the guilt of what happened and how he acted afterwards had become a unbearable load, if it didn't then he would be as cold blooded as some think IMO

Lynn went back twice to the bodies and handled bloated, rotting corpses riddled with maggots. He's cold.

 

[FrankGrimes]

Lynn went back twice to the bodies and handled bloated, rotting corpses riddled with maggots. He's cold.

This has killed his “I panicked” defence imo, apart from his rubbish accidental death by falling on a knife or whatever?
He is showing no remorse and is cold and heartless, juries still work on emotion at the end of the day

 

[Zidane98]

Did not know the hunting accident death of RH's nephew was also in the "Gatta. Not a happy area for the Hill family.

 

[faible]

Thats not his line though... He says RH took the gun and ammo from his car where it was clearly unsecured. One would think the standard of a reasonable person (who would be a licenced gun user in this case) would be to take all reasonable steps to secure both. In not meeting that standard, he has failed in his duty of care. CC died as a result of that breach, ergo Negligent manslaughter.

I'd think the prosecution would push for an ajournment if the numbers fell below 12. There must be a precedent for it somewhere.

Might have recently returned and put them in the car so as to not be easily accessible or visible while he did other things before fully securing it.

I imagine it would be hard to prove it sufficiently, but might be a good way to poke holes in his story.

'Why didn't you secure it properly?'
'Oh um, I mean well I did!'
'So how did RH so easily get it?'
'Uh I mean I didn't!'
'Your story seems inconsistent sir.'

 

[Lady O]

The inside of the canopy is not burnt. Only the outside. There was no forensic dna on the inside of the canopy. If Clay’s dna was on the underside of the canopy and the canopy was open then this implies Clay was even lower to the ground when she was shot, possibly even head to the ground.

So are you suggesting the Lynn stayed until the fire had died down and then opened the canopy? Or do you think that the first person to come across the burnt out camp was the one who opened the canopy and then took a photo of it?

If there was no forensic DNA on the inside of the canopy, it might suggest that Lynn's version of what happened was not truthful. I'm sorry, I don't get that people are believing anything Lynn has said, since he went to so much trouble to cover up their deaths.

 

[EagleEyes1]

Might have recently returned and put them in the car so as to not be easily accessible or visible while he did other things before fully securing it.

I imagine it would be hard to prove it sufficiently, but might be a good way to poke holes in his story.

'Why didn't you secure it properly?'
'Oh um, I mean well I did!'
'So how did RH so easily get it?'
'Uh I mean I didn't!'
'Your story seems inconsistent sir.'

Lynn had an argument at Hill’s camp over the drone and then went where exactly?
How did Hill come over to Lynn’s camp and take a gun with ammunition? Why did Hill allegedly take 3 rounds only? Why not take the box?
How did Hill get back to his own camp without Lynn noticing his gun was missing? When Lynn did notice the gun was missing where did he come from?
When Clay was shot where was Clay standing? How did she get shot in the side of the head if she was facing them trying to stop the fight?
If the round that hit Clay ricochet off the mirror then where are the mirror fragments on the ground? Why was Clays dna under the canopy?
If Hill died at Lynn’s camp then where is the forensic evidence of this on the ground? How come Lynn didn’t even sustain a scratch from the alleged knife fight?

There’s nobody on this planet that would believe Lynn’s crazy story. Amazing how far from the truth he tells the story.

IMO