Why would you expect South Melbourne to be a powerhouse? They are geographically quite limited there as St Kilda is the main club in the bayside suburbs directly below South Melbourne. The Swans are very financially viable and are well entrenched in the Sydney market. There's not many Melbourne teams who would be drawing 30k odd average for home games whenever they play teams from interstate so they are doing well.
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why aren't Fitzroy's premierships considered part of Brisbane Lions history?
- Thread starter Reality Check!
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- Moderator
- #177
After 1968 when country zones were introduced and the club moved to the Junction Oval for the 1970 season, Fitzroy's on-field fortunes improved winning 12 games in 1971 (and finishing 6th) with finals in 1979, 1981, 1983, 1984 and 1986.
We had the fourth highest memberhip in the VFL in 1981. Unfortunately we were forced to move from the Junction Oval in 1984 and from there our fortunes plummeted.
And starting a new team from scratch in Sydney in 1981 wouldn't have changed that.
It would have been even more difficult than it was. As it stands Sydney have record membership in 2023 with 65,332 members. Sydney was always going to be a long term project and I would say the AFL would be very happy with their improved progress in Sydney. Brisbane also has record membership with 54,676 this year and they've been going since 1987 (only 6 years after the Swans moved to Sydney).
Last edited:
- Nov 27, 2012
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It still brings out a laugh
- Moderator
- #180
These days they do a good job.
The move to the paddelepop lion in 2009 was a big blow and it really felt like the Lions were moving away from the Fitzroy connection. That co-incided with the return of Fitzroy Football Club to the football field in 2009. Ideally, I'd like to see the Brisbane Lions wear the red FFC monogram jumper once against Collingwood in Melbourne each season.
Why specifically Collingwood?
- Moderator
- #182
Arch rivals of Fitzroy from the earliest days.
Son of Superboot
Boot studder
I've never seen so many old roy boys tear-up after Rd 19 2003
Would it be possible/allowable that the Lions could offer a membership add on to Fitzroy VAFA with their Brisbane Lions membership?
- Moderator
- #185
I suppose they could do that with a Brisbane Lions Victorian membership. They'd have to consult Fitzroy and the AFL I guess.
- Moderator
- #186
I don't understand how Fitzroy(the "new" club) is not bigger.
They seem to play in a low league. But I have no idea about how Victorian Football works.
They seem to play in a low league. But I have no idea about how Victorian Football works.
- Moderator
- #187
Fitzroy were ejected from the AFL in 1996 and stripped of all their assets by the administrator. From 1997-2008 the directors, shareholders and supporters slowly rebuilt the club. Fitzroy entered D-Grade of the Victorian Amateurs in 2009 and in the following 15 seasons climbed through the grades to finally reach the Premier division of the VAFA.
Fitzroy are now operating as they started in 1883, an amateur team representing the Melbourne suburb of Fitzroy.
Has Fitzroy any interest in applying to join the VFL that you're aware of?
- Moderator
- #189
No. Fitzroy were aligned with the Coburg Lions in 1999-2000 where Coburg played as the "Coburg-Fitzroy Lions". Richmond aligned with Coburg from 2001 onwards and demanded that Coburg be known as the Tigers. So that was the end of that.
- Moderator
- #190
I would have thought the amount of fans they have would have allowed a quicker recovery. But I dont know what the average VAFA team size is or what it takes to rebuild a club back. You see this a lot in English Soccer. A club goes dead, and then a new fan led club takes its place and restarts from the bottom. Most clubs quickly advance the lower tiers until they start hitting some league with some professional clubs. Guessing the roys are doing this in an Aussie Rules sense. It just takes a little more time than soccer
BTW, I think it is fantastic that Fitzroy are back and that some of their past legends, Like Lynch, send support messages to the club. More a question than any sign of disrespect on my behalf.
- Moderator
- #191
Fitzroy was gutted at the end of 1996. However the administrator did not liquidate the Fitzroy Football Club in 1996 and 1997. Nauru's choice of an administrator, rather than a receiver or liquidator, helps explain why the Fitzroy Football Club survives to this day. Fitzroy owed $1.25 million to Nauru, secured with a ‘floating charge’ (meaning that the loan was not secured against anything specific but rather against any and all assets to the value of the loan). The administrator spent 18 months converting Fitzroy's assets into cash to pay its 120 unsecured creditors, including players and employees. They received 27¢ in the dollar and Fitzroy's only secured creditor Nauru got its $1.25 million.
So Fitzroy had no "Club Operations" after their licence to compete in the AFL was surrendered by the Administrator. Everything that was transferred to the Brisbane Bears, was acquired / purchased by the Bears with the connivance of the Adminstrator. AFL owned intellectual property pertaining to Fitzroy, such as the lion logo, was allocated to the Brisbane Bears by the AFL.
On December 22 1997, the Administrator resigned and returned control of the Fitzroy Football Club to its directors. On his resignation as administrator Michael Brennan stated: "The corporate entity called Fitzroy Football Club continues in existence." That was true.
Dyson Hore-Lacy said at the time the club was returned to the control of the directors: "Fitzroy Football Club has no assets and no liabilities. It is a debt-free football club - possibly the only one in Australia ... We will be proceeding as normal, the only difference being that we have not got a football team."
What Fitzroy did have when it came out of administration in December 1997, was over 700 shareholders (of which I was - and remain - one of those) and a cashflow. Fitzroy was - and remained - the beneficiary of a trust, run by corporate trustee Bondborough (controlled by Hore-Lacy and Fitzroy director Elaine Findlay). Bondborough owned the leasehold of the West Brunswick Hotel, which after Fitzroy's removal from the AFL, generated income for Fitzroy of between $200,000 and $300,000 a year. Fitzroy also sold merchandise and memorabilia from a bricks and mortar shop called "The Fitzroy Shop" and increasingly online. Once the FFC logo was trademarked by the Fitzroy Football Club, they sold Fitzroy jumpers and other Fitzroy merchandise. The club also started taking ordinary club memberships again from 1998 onwards.
Essentially from 1997-2008 Fitzroy was a football club in recess (in the same as many VFL football clubs went into recess in wartime). In 2009 Fitzroy returned to the playing field fielding a senior and reserves side for the first time since 1996, as well as two Under-19 sides. They are no longer 'the Lions' though as the 'Fitzroy lion logo' is owned by the AFL.
Fitzroy wasn't replaced by a new "fan led club". It is the actual Fitzroy Football Club celebrating it's 140th birthday TODAY. September 26th 1883 - September 26th 2023).
Viceregal
Premium Platinum
Are they 'the Roys' or ... ? The barrackers when they call out Go [something] what is the something?
- Moderator
- #193
Roys. Reds. I've also heard 'Go Lions'
The membership tallies for all clubs are full of smoke and mirrors. The true story is often told by attendances and TV viewers. After 40 years (with the first 30 years being the only club in the market) Sydney games could only draw an average of 50k viewers in a Grand Final year or only 20k more than the average AFL game on TV in Sydney.
2022 AFL TV Ratings - Sports Industry AU
State Leagues The growth in the AFL’s digital footprint was well received by fans, with an average of 5000 weekly
www.footyindustry.com
Attendances at home games for Sydney ranked 11th out of 18 in 2023, 10th in 22, 11th in 2019, 10th in 2018. The last 5 or so years of South Melbourne’s existence they ranked 12th out of 12 in 81, 10th in 80, 12th in 79, 9th in 78 and 7th in 77. Sydney hasn’t been in the top 5 for attendances in a season since 1997 when they finished 5th with a 35k average home attendance. In 2003 they also finished 6th with 33k which is the highest they’ve finished since. So for all of the money and effort spent in the Sydney market for the last 40 years, all the AFL has to show for it is about 80-90k combined viewers/attendees per game in Sydney in the Sydney market (in a market that will still draw 30k on TV for games not involving Sydney) and a team that is regularly in the bottom half of home attendances.
AFL Tables - Crowds 1921-2024
afltables.com
It’s hard to think the AFL (or VFL at the time) wouldn’t have been able to achieve the same results by eschewing relocation in 1982 and simply playing a 4-6 blockbusters (likely games on the Easter and Queen’s Birthday weekends to maximise travel and then possibly the second semi/prelim to ensure a completely neutral ground, which was still important at the time) per year in Sydney for 10-15 years to help build a genuine desire for a local club by showcasing big games (with the regular season games being generally played by traditional big 4 clubs to ensure a decent crowd for those games) instead of relocating a financial basket case and thinking the change of location into a brand new market which hasn’t shown that desire would solve any problems.
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Yeah def new about Coburg was just wondering if any interest in the future but if not hopefully they are a VAFA powerhouse, must get down and watch them but tricky living in regional Vic.
On final question. If the Lions win Saturday who would you like to see present the cup?
- Moderator
- #196
Kevin Murray.
Feraligatr
Official leader of the Official Sam Frost fan Club
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I know I probably have no right to comment on what I think should of happened but if I was a Lion I would have much preferred a Relocation to Hobart/Canberra than a merger. Canberra would probably been my personal pick as I believe tasmania should have their own team not a relocation.
Brisbane would have survived in their own right, they were just making finals and coming good and North are still here which kind of shows that a merger didn't need to happen.
I know the AFL wanted an even comp for when port joined so not surprised they forced the merger agenda.
Also, happy 140th Fitzroy. Long may the Lions/roys continue.
Brisbane would have survived in their own right, they were just making finals and coming good and North are still here which kind of shows that a merger didn't need to happen.
I know the AFL wanted an even comp for when port joined so not surprised they forced the merger agenda.
Also, happy 140th Fitzroy. Long may the Lions/roys continue.
Have a feeling they investigated relocation multiple times and were blocked by the AFL.
Feraligatr
Official leader of the Official Sam Frost fan Club
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Yeah, I think I read Roylion saying once before that the AFL wanted them to merge, they weren't going to be given a choice or option
- Moderator
- #200
In August 1995 Fitzroy looked at a possible partial relocation to Canberra by offering to play at least four and possibly up to seven home games in Canberra in the 1996 season.
The Club's application to play in Canberra had the support of 'AFL for Canberra' organisation, the Canberra Raiders, the Ainslee Football Club and the ACT chief minister who had offered for the ACT government to upgrade Bruce Stadium if there were two national teams playing out of the stadium. When adding in corporate sponsorship, and ground rights at Bruce Stadium (which would have been upgraded), Fitzroy's projections showed they would have made $1 million extra per season.
However the AFL knocked it back because they wanted to keep the number of clubs in the AFL at 16 by keeping the preesure on Fitzroy to merge.
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