List Mgmt. Who is playing for their careers? 2019 edition.

[briztoon]

Must admit they all seemed to have reached their ceiling (with us anyways). Admire them all for getting the best out of themselves but I would imagine all would rather try their hands elsewhere than be eternally labelled 'depth'.

I believe Lewy Taylor is still improving as a player. Because of his stature he’ll always struggle with the defensive side of the game, but he genuinely showed improvement in the couple of games he played in the seniors this year, before injury.

 

[Crimso]

They weren’t the reason for the “thin times”.

Except for Keays, they were all drafted, or traded in, in the aftermath of the go home 5.

The go home 5, and further back, the poor list management, were the reasons for the “thin times”.

They were 18 and 19 year old kids, except for Bastinac, thrust in to the best 22, often because they were the best options we had, and they had very little quality senior players around them, to protect and guide them.


Now, they’ve been overtaken by better, younger talent, or been replaced by more experienced and higher quality traded in players.

This is what good list management looks like.

To say they were a big part of the reason for the “thin times”, to me displays a complete lack of understanding of why our list was in the position it was in, and laying blame at the feet of the wrong people, the players.

Yeah, you’re probably right, I don’t get into list management too much at all, I leave that to those that are interested in that side of things.

I didn’t say they were” the reason”, but were a big part of the way things were. What I noticed was last season, or my view of the way we were, was that with these guys as part of the team got very close on more than one occasion, but close is a long way from a win. They didn’t manage to make the team too often this season and we got past the very close but no cigar to sitting back puffing away on a fat Cuban. So, for our team, these weren’t the guys to hang onto, we had to improve the list. Pre-Fagan etc., we would have been offering these guys contracts just to hang onto them, or we would have lost them to other teams, if they were any good, and then we would have had to draft even more young kids and hit the start button again.

Robbo – 24 drafted 2013
Keays - 22 drafted 2015
Taylor – 24 drafted 2013
Cutler – 24 drafted 2013
Bastinac – 28 drafted 2009
Walker – 27 drafted 2011
No 18 - 19 year old's there.

Basic list management, keep the good / better ones and replace the delisted / traded ones with better if available.

But you know all this.

And I do hope some go onto play with other AFL teams successfully.

 

[briztoon]

Yeah, you’re probably right, I don’t get into list management too much at all, I leave that to those that are interested in that side of things.

I didn’t say they were” the reason”, but were a big part of the way things were. What I noticed was last season, or my view of the way we were, was that with these guys as part of the team got very close on more than one occasion, but close is a long way from a win. They didn’t manage to make the team too often this season and we got past the very close but no cigar to sitting back puffing away on a fat Cuban. So, for our team, these weren’t the guys to hang onto, we had to improve the list. Pre-Fagan etc., we would have been offering these guys contracts just to hang onto them, or we would have lost them to other teams, if they were any good, and then we would have had to draft even more young kids and hit the start button again.

Robbo – 24 drafted 2013
Keays - 22 drafted 2015
Taylor – 24 drafted 2013
Cutler – 24 drafted 2013
Bastinac – 28 drafted 2009
Walker – 27 drafted 2011
No 18 - 19 year old's there.

Basic list management, keep the good / better ones and replace the delisted / traded ones with better if available.

But you know all this.

And I do hope some go onto play with other AFL teams successfully.

My comment re 18 and 19 year olds refers to the 2013 draftees as playing during the “thin times”, as you called them. Hence the past tense use of “they were 18 and 19 year olds”.

Reread my post, it’s pretty straight forward.

The second part of my post, pretty much covers why we improved.

I’m not disagreeing with the basic premise of what you’re saying, especially in regards to the delistings. But I disagree with your view of why we weren’t good before, and that it’s some how these players fault.

 

[notliondown]

I agree with everything you have said. I have said it myself several times lately.

Only thing that remains to be seen is.. are we ready to fully step away from the 'cotton wool on culture' model?

The off-season will tell us.

I think we are bound to still make mistakes, hell even some of the de-listings maybe yet. But I think we're seeing a level headed maturity in our list management that allows others to feel confident in their decisions.

I think the culture of the club will evolve with the list. As we become a mature, experienced list we will develop our own unique culture that is Brisbane Lions property as such. I think our off field friendship model will always be different to a heartland club.

What I hope doesn't change is the either the players or the managements desire to weed out bad apples. As much as we have grown in leaps and bounds in the last 3 years or so it won't take too much to undo it again.

For sure we need the nuances and differences new players make to a culture. But we have to have a zero tolerance approach to those who are devisive and undermining.

 

[iBeng]

Id aways hoped Keays would follow a similar path to Viney, be a tough, not so much skilled but grunty inside midfielder, but I may have stuffed up my comparisons.

 

[scoman]

Id aways hoped Keays would follow a similar path to Viney, be a tough, not so much skilled but grunty inside midfielder, but I may have stuffed up my comparisons.

I thought he was a Dayne Beams type of player when drafted. Slightly outside, with an ability to win his own ball and a nose for goal. He certainly has been that at NEAFL level. I think at that level he seems far more composed due to the advantage he has over the competition in his fitness, strength and hunger for the ball. At AFL he doesn't have that advantage and so lacks composure and confidence, making him fumble more and miss shots on goal he should be nailing. It's still a shame though as his work to reinvent himself as a forward had been first class. I hoped all year he might nail down a spot as a hard tackling defensive forward who could take his chances on goal. Really hope he gets picked up somewhere.

 

[BlackGun1]

I know it’s just 1 stat but Ben Keays has a disposal efficiency of 59% when playing in the AFL.
It doesn’t scream terrible decision to delist.
Out of all of the players on our list that have played games of AFL Football, Archie Smith is the only player with a lower Disposal efficiency. That says something to me.

Cherry picking a bit there. Remember the bulk of his games came in that horrid 2016 year.

I think most can agree there Weren’t a great deal of highlights for him at senior level. It’s more that it seemed like he was turning a corner.

Part of me wonders whether part of his delisting was more to benefit him as much as the club. A change of scenery might be exactly what he needs to become at least a consistent role player at Senior level.

 

[BlackGun1]

Keays didn't play especially well in either of those games from memory? He threw himself about at the contest but didn't look especially clean or confident out there. I remember being no more convinced than I had been in the past that he was ready for regular senior selection and was frustrated that games went to him over others. He certainly did not play well enough at any stage to suggest delisting him is an absolute shocker, that sort of response would be warranted if we delisted Zac Bailey or something. It was a fairly moderate, timely decision for a young Guy who never really came on in any significant way. I strongly doubt any calculated elevation could have concluded that he was going to be a 200 game player for the club, barring a sudden explosion in confidence and skill.

You’ve made great points but Keays played great against Port. Looked confident and composed and set up a number of goals.

Anyway, cest la vie

 

[Lions Flag 2020]

I must admit I am surprised we delisted all of Walker, Robbo, keays and Bastinac. All played senior football this year and played their role. Each has limitations but I thought at least two would have been kept for depth albeit on a lot lower dollars. I realise list spots were required but a couple of younger players should probably be feeling very relieved.

 

[pulpdriver]

I must admit I am surprised we delisted all of Walker, Robbo, keays and Bastinac. All played senior football this year and played their role. Each has limitations but I thought at least two would have been kept for depth albeit on a lot lower dollars. I realise list spots were required but a couple of younger players should probably be feeling very relieved.

Pitfalls of an improving team, although admittedly short pit. Those borderline quality players that offer something squeezed out in favour of guns and rookies. I'd like to keep them all but in a way it's selfish, even if we could keep them short of injuries they'd be playing 2s all year when some are genuinely capable of AFL with the right opportunities.
Hope nothing but the best for all of them.

 

[Zhesty]

I understand the club's decision and back it but I do think that Keays showed the most improvement of any player in the reserves over the last 12 months. I thought those improvements definitely carried over to Afl level when he was given the chance.

Unfortunately due to our injury run, he couldn't get enough opportunity and it was probably a little bit too late for him.

 

[lions2010]

I must admit I am surprised we delisted all of Walker, Robbo, keays and Bastinac. All played senior football this year and played their role. Each has limitations but I thought at least two would have been kept for depth albeit on a lot lower dollars. I realise list spots were required but a couple of younger players should probably be feeling very relieved.

 

[lions2010]

I am not surprised. You have to build depth to win a flag, not have average playerd entering the rotation. Lions need to further develop players from 20-28 on the list, or really quality depth such as Paine, Smith etc. We need to give them games for this to happen, so I see this as a great move.

 

[Sproj]

Keats is/was a Lions tragic, I do wish he was given at least one more year instead of say Hinge.

 

[luthor]

Keats is/was a Lions tragic

I prefer Wordsworth myself.

 

[SizeMatters]

reckon salary cap pressure might have played a large part in their delistings. Think we have some room... but clearing it out leaves us a lot to play with next offseason. We might have a specific target in mind...

Fingers cross we are heavily into Grundy. Would be a perfect get.... money talks and i would pay him 1m a season easy.

 

[Nunez]

reckon salary cap pressure might have played a large part in their delistings. Think we have some room... but clearing it out leaves us a lot to play with next offseason. We might have a specific target in mind...

Fingers cross we are heavily into Grundy. Would be a perfect get.... money talks and i would pay him 1m a season easy.

Yeah definitely smart list management. Don't want to overpay for depth players.

 

[Dalions]

reckon salary cap pressure might have played a large part in their delistings. Think we have some room... but clearing it out leaves us a lot to play with next offseason. We might have a specific target in mind...

Fingers cross we are heavily into Grundy. Would be a perfect get.... money talks and i would pay him 1m a season easy.

I think the Laird or Smith thing may come to fruition next year?

 

[luthor]

reckon salary cap pressure might have played a large part in their delistings. Think we have some room... but clearing it out leaves us a lot to play with next offseason. We might have a specific target in mind...

Fingers cross we are heavily into Grundy. Would be a perfect get.... money talks and i would pay him 1m a season easy.

Re-signing the likes of Clug, Rayner (and other young guns) to longer term contracts would be a priority I would think.

 

[Football Pope]

I must admit I am surprised we delisted all of Walker, Robbo, keays and Bastinac.

Pretty sure we would have to delist all of Walker, Robbo, Keays and Bastinac...Not sure the AFL would accept just body parts...

 

[BuntonRules]

Thought this was good

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...c/news-story/267042a0398470d0a1b2c6061073f65b

 

[winged1]

Pretty sure we would have to delist all of Walker, Robbo, Keays and Bastinac...Not sure the AFL would accept just body parts...

We delisted Walker but kept his hair. It's giving us a new found cheeky confidence.

 

[luthor]

We delisted Walker but kept his hair. It's giving us a new found cheeky confidence.

Yeah, yeah!!

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

We delisted Walker but kept his hair. It's giving us a new found cheeky confidence.

On balance, once the glue has set, I think it would be regarded as a fixture, much like carpet and light fittings. His to keep.

 

[bungalow_bill]

On balance, once the glue has set, I think it would be regarded as a fixture, much like carpet and light fittings. His to keep.

Kind of like the carpet sample Robbo is sporting at present