Whitten Oval set to be revived

[Johnny Bananas]

The big thing hurting suburban grounds is a lack of public transport infrastructure. Have a look at the EPL stadiums, most are literally surrounded by terraced housing with virtually no parking available. My parents live in Bassendean, and I've been to many a Swan Districts game, and it is a literal nightmare for people to find a carpark, let alone the local residents having to put up with it. And that's a ground that is actually on a rail line.

Why don't they just take the train or bus to the ground then?

 

[Noobz0r]

Why don't they just take the train or bus to the ground then?

Exactly.

Well, it's also worth noting that if you don't live on a train line it's an insanely long journey to a suburban ground.

 

[The Victorian]

Indeed, Mars Stadium was built as a Level 3 AFL ground (Less amenities and VFL grade lighting) where GMHBA stadium is Level 1 (Similar in amenities and supporting infrastructure to the MCG and Marvel Stadium) based on the fact that it has a resident home team (Geelong) and hosts 9 AFL home games per season as opposed to a mere 2 in Ballarat for the less popular (lower crowd-pulling) Bulldogs. That's why Mars cost $3000 per seat to build as opposed to the several thousand per seat for GMHBA Stadium. I don't have a problem with that by the way, I certainly don't believe that they ought to be spending too much more money at Mars Stadium beyond perhaps another 5000 seats and reserved standing capacity for approx 5000 to give it a realistic capacity of about 15,000. It's already about to have another $6 million spent building a new covered entrance and ticket booths at its southern end, new permanent toilet blocks built for the standing areas of the ground and imrovements to its catering facilities. For my mind the money there really needs to be spent outside the ground on car parking, lighting and a train platform over the road.

That said, here's a real kicker as a side note: The new 25,000 capacity Townsville (Rubgy only) Stadium for the NQ Cowboys is costing $10,000 per seat to build and likely only ever be filled on its opening night ... They have never had 25,000 turn up to any sporting event in Townsville ever ...

Yeah but it’s amazing what a brand new stadium can do. It has the power to draw bigger crowds considering it’s world class new facilities a massive upgrade on the old stadium. Also, it’s more central too which will help to bring fans to the game. Interstate fans may now consider going to Townsville for a holiday and double up with a game against the cowboys to check out the new stadium! All in all, there as benefits!

 

[Damon_3388]

I feel sorry for the people in and around footscray on game days if this happens. I lived just down the road literally for 5 years and went past nearly every day for 10 and I can tell you, just driving around there to get to highpoint or park nearby to use the public gym was bad enough. Trying to accommodate even 1000 cars for attendees around there will be an absolute sh*t show.

Yeah, just going by the photo in the OP alone, you can see there'd be no room to accomodate the volume of cars, either parking or passing through. Even public transport would be a bit of a mess, and would create a huge volume of foot traffic too.

I don't think it's really feasable to have the suburban Victorian grounds functional like they once were in today's environment. People might go once for the novelty, but it's be a pain to do as a regular thing.

 

[Roogal]

Yeah but it’s amazing what a brand new stadium can do. It has the power to draw bigger crowds considering it’s world class new facilities a massive upgrade on the old stadium. Also, it’s more central too which will help to bring fans to the game. Interstate fans may now consider going to Townsville for a holiday and double up with a game against the cowboys to check out the new stadium! All in all, there as benefits!

Nah central it's not. Townsville's new stadium is not central unless you you live in Hermit Park, South Townville, or North Ward. Townsville's shopping and commercial heart radiates around the Stockland Site in Aitkenvale. Townsville's former town centre which outwardly looks like a CBD features nothing more than a lifeless mall, cafes, nightclubs and a few highrise apartments and hotels which draws primarily backpacker tourists, local 20-somethings and soldiers to its night clubs and bars. The new stadium sits on the Southern fringe of the city on the South side of a muddy estuary (Ross Creek). It looks good in aerial photos, but will likey be useless for much else beyond rugby. It will stand as an edifice to political pork-barrelling. Funded entirely by the Turnbull government who tried to buy favour in the 2016 Federal Election riding on the coat tail of emotions of Jonathon Thurston's pleadings to give the Cowboys "the stadium that they deserved". It's only good for rugby and maybe soccer. For $250 million you can't play either Aussie Rules or Cricket in it.

They didn't even spend that much re-building Lang Park, the Gabba or the 25,000 capacity Metricon Stadium. It's only other claim to fame was to host a boxing bout. I personally can't see the justification of a $250 million spend in a city that's 80,000 smaller than Geelong for a mere 25,000 capacity (two sport only) stadium where as Geelong will regularly fill its 40,000 capacity GMHBA stadium for a similar spend. Townsville should have instead lobbied to have its Riverways Stadium out in its geographical epicentre at Kirwan re-built in a similar fashion to Metricon Stadium for similar money and at least have been subsequently able to host AFL, Cricket T20, Rugby and Soccer. Yet as I type this reply AFL North Queensland and Queensland Cricket are pleading to get more money spent to develop Riverways Stadium, but ... well good luck with that now. Perhaps wait until the next Federal election for Morrison and his mates to cough up the dough to again fruitlessly try and to buy Townsville's votes.

As I said, political pork-barrelling. Look no further than Rockhampton which is now about to get two (yes 2) 10,000 seating capacity Rugby stadiums built in a city of 70,000 with one promised by the QLD ALP State Government, and the other promised by Morrison's Federal Liberal Party in the recent State election. Now if that's not pork-barrelling I don't know what is?

 

[Kwality]

Nah central it's not. Townsville's new stadium is not central unless you you live in Hermit Park, South Townville, or North Ward. Townsville's shopping and commercial heart radiates around the Stockland Site in Aitkenvale. Townsville's former town centre which outwardly looks like a CBD features nothing more than a lifeless mall, cafes, nightclubs and a few highrise apartments and hotels which draws primarily backpacker tourists, local 20-somethings and soldiers to its night clubs and bars. The new stadium sits on the Southern fringe of the city on the South side of a muddy estuary (Ross Creek). It looks good in aerial photos, but will likey be useless for much else beyond rugby. It will stand as an edifice to political pork-barrelling. Funded entirely by the Turnbull government who tried to buy favour in the 2016 Federal Election riding on the coat tail of emotions of Jonathon Thurston's pleadings to give the Cowboys "the stadium that they deserved". It's only good for rugby and maybe soccer. For $250 million you can't play either Aussie Rules or Cricket in it. They didn't even spend that much re-building Lang Park, the Gabba or the 25,000 capacity Metricon Stadium. It's only other claim to fame was to host a boxing bout. I can't see the justification of a $250 million spend in a city that's 80,000 smaller than Geelong for a mere 25,000 capacity (two sport only) stadium where as Geelong will regularly fill its 40,000 capacity GMHBA stadium for a similar spend. Townsville could have had its Riverways Stadium out in its geographical epicentre at Kirwan re-built in a similar fashion to Metricon Stadium for similar money and at least have been subsequently able to host AFL, Cricket T20, Rugby and Soccer. Yet as I type this reply AFL North Queensland and Queensland Cricket are pleading to get more money spent to develop Riverways Stadium, but ... well good luck with that now. Perhaps wait until the next Federal election for Morrison and his mates to cough up the dough to again fruitlessly try and to buy Townsville's votes.

As I said, political pork-barrelling. Look no further than Rockhampton which is now about to get two 10,000 capacity Rugby stadiums built in a city of 70,000 with one promised by the QLD ALP State Government, and the other promised by Morrison's Federal Liberal Party in the recent State election. Now if that's not pork-barrelling I don't know what is?

Have the Cowboys locked in the game when Supercars are in town?
Didnt Annastasia open the purse? She had a great result up there. If Townsville didnt a get a drink very recently ....

 

[Roogal]

Have the Cowboys locked in the game when Supercars are in town?
Didn't Annastasia open the purse? She had a great result up there. If Townsville didnt a get a drink very recently ....

Not sure what Anna Pal promised the Ville in the recent state election. Townsville has been a bit of an ALP stronghold surrounded by very conservative rural seats for a good many years and accordingly it constantly draws lots of attention from the Fed Libs and State LNP who think that they can capture it. Historically the only times Townsville ever swings to the conservatives is when there is a national protest vote against the ALP, but then it usually swings back to the ALP at the next election. They very much try to tap into the vote of the large Defence community there.

 

[RedV3x]

far more deserving women's sports

You've got the ABC and the SBS. What more do you want?

 

[Roogal]

The WBFC have submitted plans for Stage 2 of the VU WO development to include a new glass enclosed Whitten Stand and TV Broadcast lighting:

https://www.austadiums.com/news/846/50-million-revamp-for-whitten-oval

 

[Teen Wolf]

State Government announces funding boost for Bulldogs’ redevelopment

The Daniel Andrews State Government has announced it will allocate $36.6 million towards the Whitten Oval precinct redevelopment.

www.westernbulldogs.com.au

$36.6 million on its way from the Victorian government. That's the same amount Princes Park is getting from the state and Fed govs combined, I don't get it. Neither are my dream option (an eight hundred billion dollar stadium in Gosch's Paddock), take what you can get though.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

State Government announces funding boost for Bulldogs’ redevelopment

The Daniel Andrews State Government has announced it will allocate $36.6 million towards the Whitten Oval precinct redevelopment.

www.westernbulldogs.com.au

$36.6 million on its way from the Victorian government. That's the same amount Princes Park is getting from the state and Fed govs combined, I don't get it. Neither are my dream option (an eight hundred billion dollar stadium in Gosch's Paddock), take what you can get though.

govt isnt building a third major stadium in melbourne

this pipedream needs to be crushed

 

[Teen Wolf]

govt isnt building a third major stadium in melbourne

this pipedream needs to be crushed

It is crushed (or 'vanquished' is the word I used on the main board), aren't you paying attention.

What I'm saying is that it's a stupid and very costly mistake. Instead of the Melbourne clubs all getting on the same page to maximise funding for one really good AFLW venue, we'll be left with a bunch of slightly upgraded shitty suburban grounds that will only hold the women's league back in the long run.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

It is crushed (or 'vanquished' is the word I used on the main board), aren't you paying attention.

What I'm saying is that it's a stupid and very costly mistake. Instead of the Melbourne clubs all getting on the same page to maximise funding for one really good AFLW venue, we'll be left with a bunch of slightly upgraded shitty suburban grounds that will only hold the women's league back in the long run.

Melbourne clubs can build whatever they want - noone is stopping them.

The issue is they want the govt to pay for it

The govt has no interest in building large stadia for professional teams. All of the funding they have granted is built around improving community access of these venues and improving training facilities for female participation

An E gate white elephant with zero community value isn't on their radar

 

[Teen Wolf]

Melbourne clubs can build whatever they want - noone is stopping them.

The issue is they want the govt to pay for it

The govt has no interest in building large stadia for professional teams. All of the funding they have granted is built around improving community access of these venues and improving training facilities for female participation

An E gate white elephant with zero community value isn't on their radar

So you aren't paying attention, after all. Melbourne clubs actually are building what they want, and the government actually is paying for it.

This latest chunk of funding is predominantly for TV broadcast lighting, a new grandstand and pavilion, reconfigured playing field... you know, real community-oriented stuff.

As far as training facilities for female participation goes, that's what the $5m in 2018 was for. Every dollar thereafter is just making the ground a competitor to Ikon Park, which I thought was getting so much money because it's supposed to be the home of AFLW. Hope you're happy: instead of one white elephant, now there'll be two.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So you aren't paying attention, after all. Melbourne clubs actually are building what they want, and the government actually is paying for it.

This latest chunk of funding is predominantly for TV broadcast lighting, a new grandstand and pavilion, reconfigured playing field... you know, real community-oriented stuff.

As far as training facilities for female participation goes, that's what the $5m in 2018 was for. Every dollar thereafter is just making the ground a competitor to Ikon Park, which I thought was getting so much money because it's supposed to be the home of AFLW. Hope you're happy: instead of one white elephant, now there'll be two.

you need to read the details of the proposals. if they give the lights and such, the trade off has to be increased community use of the facility.

its why richmond had the laguntas, and other clubs have everything from VIS squads, wheelchair sports, fencing, and so on

 

[Teen Wolf]

you need to read the details of the proposals. if they give the lights and such, the trade off has to be increased community use of the facility.

its why richmond had the laguntas, and other clubs have everything from VIS squads, wheelchair sports, fencing, and so on

Fairly confident I'm much more familiar with the details of the plan than you are.

Apparently I can also think of much cheaper ways to build a running track.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Fairly confident I'm much more familiar with the details of the plan than you are.

Apparently I can also think of much cheaper ways to build a running track.

none of those mentioned use running tracks. it about access to the indoor training rooms, weight rooms, rehab facilities, etc

my source was peggy oneil, who explained the victorian govt requirements in the applications (as we missed out)

 

[Teen Wolf]

none of those mentioned use running tracks. it about access to the indoor training rooms, weight rooms, rehab facilities, etc

my source was peggy oneil, who explained the victorian govt requirements in the applications (as we missed out)

Whitten Oval's master plan does, which is what I'm talking about.

Of course there's going to be some benefit to the community, but $36m worth? Laughable to suggest that's where more than a small portion of funds is going, which is what you did (in fact you went several ridiculous steps further by saying "All of the funding they have granted is built around improving community access of these venues and improving training facilities for female participation").

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Whitten Oval's master plan does, which is what I'm talking about.

Of course there's going to be some benefit to the community, but $36m worth? Laughable to suggest that's where more than a small portion of funds is going, which is what you did (in fact you went several ridiculous steps further by saying "All of the funding they have granted is built around improving community access of these venues and improving training facilities for female participation").

of course its not going to be full value.

what the govt is wanting to avoid is another Glasshouse, where the Pies made a mockery of community access (they essentially booked out all facilities for the footy team, making it impossible for anyone else to use them)

key point is you have to be either doing something to enhance/improve womens footy OR community access to facilities above what they have today

e gate doesnt do this. there is no community access need in that area, and a boutique AFL stadium of 30k isnt what womens footy needs

e gate is never going to happen - the govt doesnt want it, the afl doesnt want it, and i believe the land has been sold to a developer (dont know if thats been finalized)

 

[Teen Wolf]

of course its not going to be full value.

what the govt is wanting to avoid is another Glasshouse, where the Pies made a mockery of community access (they essentially booked out all facilities for the footy team, making it impossible for anyone else to use them)

key point is you have to be either doing something to enhance/improve womens footy OR community access to facilities above what they have today

e gate doesnt do this. there is no community access need in that area, and a boutique AFL stadium of 30k isnt what womens footy needs

e gate is never going to happen - the govt doesnt want it, the afl doesnt want it, and i believe the land has been sold to a developer (dont know if thats been finalized)

Doesn't need a 30k stadium, but it already has a 20k stadium which received $35m in government funding to be the epicentre of the league. I knew and said all along that won't work because clubs want to play at their own ground, and now here we are.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Doesn't need a 30k stadium, but it already has a 20k stadium which received $35m in government funding to be the epicentre of the league. I knew and said all along that won't work because clubs want to play at their own ground, and now here we are.

e gate only makes sense as a third stadium, and a third stadium makes no sense with the vic govt owning the mcg and the afl owning marvel

 

[Teen Wolf]

e gate only makes sense as a third stadium, and a third stadium makes no sense with the vic govt owning the mcg and the afl owning marvel

A third stadium does make sense if the first two aren't going to be used for AFLW, that was the whole point of the funding for Ikon Park.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

A third stadium does make sense if the first two aren't going to be used for AFLW, that was the whole point of the funding for Ikon Park.

an aflw standalone is nuts. it has to be used by the afl as well to justify the cost

 

[Teen Wolf]

an aflw standalone is nuts. it has to be used by the afl as well to justify the cost

Or just build a running track and some environmentally-friendly public space in the general vicinity, then it's all good!

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Or just build a running track and some environmentally-friendly public space in the general vicinity, then it's all good!

to be used by whom? e gate is not exactly in an area begging for community use

also running tracks on foot ovals is s**t - dont repeat the mistakes of the gabba and the greyhound track