What helped fix Nick

[karmafree]

http://www.bodyflowinternational.com/about-bodyflow/

Better than needles, drugs and banned procedures.

This is what thinking outside of the box will do to keeping us a great club. I would love to know what the rich clubs like "The Filth", Eagles and Crows get up to with their vast financial resources when it comes to spending on technology.

 

[goodie23]

I would've guessed gaffer tape, lots and lots of gaffer tape

 

[karmafree]

I would've guessed gaffer tape, lots and lots of gaffer tape

Ha Ha Ha Goodie

I was using said product yesterday fixing up two plastic pipes. Its bloody good stuff.

 

[Kildonan]

I am a medical laboratory scientist and a skeptic - this therapy has all the warning signals of a pseudoscientific alternative medicine practice.

I searched pubmed - a source for legitimate (and some not so legitimate) scientific studies. There is no mention of Bodyflow nor of electro-stimulation of smooth muscle for the reasons cited.

I could not find any of the three clinical studies that are claimed to "scientifically back this technology".

Much as the power bands that the club have also been reputed to trial, this appears be be another waste of money - making big time (international) scam artists rich.

 

[Blind Turn]

I am a medical laboratory scientist and a skeptic - this therapy has all the warning signals of a pseudoscientific alternative medicine practice.

I searched pubmed - a source for legitimate (and some not so legitimate) scientific studies. There is no mention of Bodyflow nor of electro-stimulation of smooth muscle for the reasons cited.

I could not find any of the three clinical studies that are claimed to "scientifically back this technology".

Much as the power bands that the club have also been reputed to trial, this appears be be another waste of money - making big time (international) scam artists rich.

You need to take off your narrow focused medical goggles Kildonan. If nothing else you'll lose your peripheral vision and get sideswiped by a wayward antigen from the planet Endoplasmic Reticulum. A skeptic will always deny themselves the rewards of Possibility. Good on the Saints for thinking outside the box.

 

[Kildonan]

You need to take off your narrow focused medical goggles Kildonan... ...A skeptic will always deny themselves the rewards of Possibility....

Is it my requiring proof that defines me as having "narrow focused medical goggles"?

A skeptic uses critical thinking to maximise what we get out of life. We all have limited resources and skeptics prefer to utilise those resources towards methodologies that have a reasonable chance of achiving the desired outcome. Scientific evidence is usually the best indicator of the efficacy of a methodology.

I'm not saying that Bodyflow is bogus, but it certainly has many of the hallmarks that suggest it is, so I would be very wary about using it - especially if it is expensive and even more especially if it requires you to stop treatments that are known to work.

 

[Blind Turn]

Is it my requiring proof that defines me as having "narrow focused medical goggles"?

A skeptic uses critical thinking to maximise what we get out of life. We all have limited resources and skeptics prefer to utilise those resources towards methodologies that have a reasonable chance of achiving the desired outcome. Scientific evidence is usually the best indicator of the efficacy of a methodology.

I'm not saying that Bodyflow is bogus, but it certainly has many of the hallmarks that suggest it is, so I would be very wary about using it - especially if it is expensive and even more especially if it requires you to stop treatments that are known to work.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Agree strongly that you shouldn't stop things that are proven to work... that is just plain foolhardiness. There are just as many charlatans in the medical world as in the complimentary therapy world. I would say that there is more harm done in the allopathic therapies due to nosocomial problems, gung-ho practices, and non-holistic care than ever occurs in the generally gentler practices of complimentary practices.

Of the argument that 'alternative medicine' lacks empirical data to back it up - this is generally true. However, the funding is generally not there and the pharmaceutical industry is a big (imposing) benefactor of the allopathic world. I work in the allopathic world and I know it's short-falls. But I sure as hell wouldn't get a naturopath to treat my burst appendix. There is a place for all modalities.

 

[sgnl00]

Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Agree strongly that you shouldn't stop things that are proven to work... that is just plain foolhardiness. There are just as many charlatans in the medical world as in the complimentary therapy world. I would say that there is more harm done in the allopathic therapies due to nosocomial problems, gung-ho practices, and non-holistic care than ever occurs in the generally gentler practices of complimentary practices.

Of the argument that 'alternative medicine' lacks empirical data to back it up - this is generally true. However, the funding is generally not there and the pharmaceutical industry is a big (imposing) benefactor of the allopathic world. I work in the allopathic world and I know it's short-falls. But I sure as hell wouldn't get a naturopath to treat my burst appendix. There is a place for all modalities.

Being articulate doesn't cover up the problems with the initial premise. It's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical about something that has no empirical evidence (as far as scientific trials, etc.) supporting it. If you want to go along the line 'Absence of proof is not proof of absence' then we might as well start debating whether God exists.

 

[Blind Turn]

Being articulate doesn't cover up the problems with the initial premise. It's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical about something that has no empirical evidence (as far as scientific trials, etc.) supporting it. If you want to go along the line 'Absence of proof is not proof of absence' then we might as well start debating whether God exists.

My viewpoint isn't that there is a problem with a skeptics belief/trust in empirical evidence it is about their faith in it over all other possibilities... and that goes with God as well. If someone experiences revelation then I am more inclined to wonder at its possibility (and the extreme human benefits), as opposed to immediately disbelieving them because I have never had a revelatory experience of a mystical nature or there is a lack of empirical proof.

 

[karmafree]

The proof is in the pudding as they say. Nick is back starring, if body flow helped, great. Our run with injury since since we changed our medical management is equally positive. So on that basis I am a believer Big K.

Also I have my own health issues and am very skeptical to tha allopathic management of health. As I am to alternative therapies. I have tried so many things to get well and have come to the basic conclusion of "what ever works" My proof is how I feel, and thats what I go with.

If Body Flow works , ( I have never used it ) for our players and the medical staff are happy with the results, then I am all for it.

 

[HoldenMCaulfield]

Being articulate doesn't cover up the problems with the initial premise. It's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical about something that has no empirical evidence (as far as scientific trials, etc.) supporting it. If you want to go along the line 'Absence of proof is not proof of absence' then we might as well start debating whether God exists.

Is man one of God's blunders? Or is God one of man's blunders?

 

[dg102]

Body flow could actually work. Ive heard very good feedback about people using magnets to heal pain and injuries and I think they work because it makes sense that if extra blood is forced to a specific area of the body it will assist in the healing proccess.

 

[Blind Turn]

Is man one of God's blunders? Or is God one of man's blunders?

Yes.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I am a medical laboratory scientist and a skeptic - this therapy has all the warning signals of a pseudoscientific alternative medicine practice.

I searched pubmed - a source for legitimate (and some not so legitimate) scientific studies. There is no mention of Bodyflow nor of electro-stimulation of smooth muscle for the reasons cited.

I could not find any of the three clinical studies that are claimed to "scientifically back this technology".

Much as the power bands that the club have also been reputed to trial, this appears be be another waste of money - making big time (international) scam artists rich.

I know how you feel. As an Engineer in the auto industry, people who thought that cars ran on black magic couldn't understand my sceptisism when Peter Brock wanted to put energy polerizers into Holdens.

 

[Kildonan]

I've heard very good feedback about people using magnets to heal pain and injuries and I think they work because it makes sense that if extra blood is forced to a specific area of the body it will assist in the healing proccess.

The magnets don't speed up the healing process. There is no known scientific explanation of how they would do this. Iron bound in haemoglobin does not have the magnetic properties that it does in metallic form. In order to explain how the magnets interact with tissues we would have to throw out huge chunks of physics that scientists have proven repeatedly over decades in almost every university across the world. Then we'd have to re-write the physics books taking into account these new magnetic theories.

Enough of that, though.

This is the modus operandi of the pseudoscientific alternative medicine provider. They provide a methodology which is described as performing a quite reasonable sounding function and the scientific explanation of how it works is provided in a believable blurb.

Can anyone dispute that the electro-stimulation of smooth muscle will perform the desired actions of increasing blood flow and lymphatic drainage. Well yes I can. There are smooth muscle walls on our arteries and to a lesser degree our veins, but there are also numerous other factors to take into account. The smooth muscle usually plays little or no function in the role it is required for this process to work. The majority of fluid movement is provided by the action of the heart, the elasticity of the vessel walls and through the action of skeletal muscles which indirectly pump fluid often against gravity and/or pressure gradients. Valves also play a major role.

Look at the demonstration images. This product has a simplistic two electrode system and presumably generates electrical impulses at a frequency that is specifically designed to maximise contraction of the smooth muscle surrounding vessels (if there is such a frequency).

I would love to design a clinical trial for this.

 

[dg102]

Wasn't it some high altitude simulated jail cell that helped nick with recovery?

 

[John Bonney]

If the truth be known..it was The Tardis.

 

[Blind Turn]

Best of luck saints, I hope you make it all the way this year.

 

[Red Gum]

"and came across a specific fine-tuned frequency"
This quote from the opening spiel on the bodyflow website sets off alarm bells for me. Sounds a little too much like 'and then, almost as if by magic...' or 'and then stumbled across scrolls of ancient wisdom'

 

[Baldur]

Placebo effect, it just has to sound as if it should work

 

[the emergency]

Wasn't it some high altitude simulated jail cell that helped nick with recovery?

perhaps something like this...

(sits, waits and hopes you're a dragonball fan)