Toast Welcome to the kennel Vandermeer

[Some Idiot]

Would've been career best numbers in a bunch of stats on the weekend, hopefully he can springboard from that into some more consistency.

 

[dogwatch]

The Vandermeer conundrum continues.

He gets games every week he's fit, yet he is probably the #1 whipping boy (WB) on this board. What is it that the selectors see that we don't? Or that we see but the selectors don't?

His 50 games is a milestone worth saluting for a WB. None of his career stats are outstanding. He averages 11 disposals a game (6 K, 5 HB), 0.46 goals, a respectable but nothing special 2.2 tackles, 3.6 CPs and a handy 0.5 GAs. For all his speed he has only had one bounce in his whole career and that three years ago. He has never kicked more than 2 goals in a game which for a player who usually starts forward of centre is a bit of an indictment.

More infamously he is labelled a chronic fumbler and has been reported to have the most number of negative player ratings in games.

So what's going on?

For a start I suspect the player rating thing is a bit of a furphy. The ratings are a composite index but they probably don't include things like repeat sprints, pressure acts and so on. We might not rate repeat sprints in a game but somebody does (probably the coaching staff) because it's a stat that keeps getting measured and posted. A fallacy perhaps?

Pressure acts is a different category. I think we all acknowledge here the importance of pressure. When our collective pressure rating is below average we usually lose. Vandermeer is one of those players who I think rates pretty highly for pressure acts (anybody got any comparative stats on that?)

He also appears to be playing that high half forward role which is notoriously difficult to play (or so I keep reading). You seldom see him deep in the 50. He's usually found somewhere between the arcs.

He's also aggressive and courageous. There's always a need for that in any 18 on the paddock.

I see him as the Invisible Man. He's doing stuff that the cameras don't pick up and it's often off the ball so even those at the game might not notice. He seldom gets discussed in the TV commentary. But those acts presumably have some bearing on the way the game is played, otherwise why do the coaches rate him?

Can anyone shed more light on this conundrum?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Like the summary, DW, but I really don't think there is much of a mystery here.

Vandermeer is a tremendous off-the-ball player - we can see this in his GPS and pressure stats and also live. His on-the-ball work fluctuates between eye-wateringly disgusting and good.

Coaches think the off-the-ball work compensates for the limitations with ball in hand. Fans almost exclusively see (and appreciate/understand) Vandermeer's work with ball in hand so have a disproportionate view of the weighting of his strengths and weaknesses.

Who is right? Dunno, but I too find him hard to watch sometimes.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Still not the biggest fan but amazing courage in the 3rd going back with the flight.

 

[Mofra]

If you're "ok" you can still forge an AFL career by being elite at "something".

Every week VDM seems to lead the "repeat sprints" game wide (if not comp wide) and it seems to be something coaches value more than everyone else.

 

[Next Waiting]

Like the summary, DW, but I really don't think there is much of a mystery here.

Vandermeer is a tremendous off-the-ball player - we can see this in his GPS and pressure stats and also live. His on-the-ball work fluctuates between eye-wateringly disgusting and good.

Coaches think the off-the-ball work compensates for the limitations with ball in hand. Fans almost exclusively see (and appreciate/understand) Vandermeer's work with ball in hand so have a disproportionate view of the weighting of his strengths and weaknesses.

Who is right? Dunno, but I too find him hard to watch sometimes.

A very good summary I think Dan. He does the hard, bloody minded stuff that few people observe because they're following the ball.. seemingly he loves that stuff.

Good to see him get to 50 games and there's always scope for improvement with his skills. But first and foremost he's fast and a fierce competitor and that's a very good place to start.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Like the summary, DW, but I really don't think there is much of a mystery here.

Vandermeer is a tremendous off-the-ball player - we can see this in his GPS and pressure stats and also live. His on-the-ball work fluctuates between eye-wateringly disgusting and good.

Coaches think the off-the-ball work compensates for the limitations with ball in hand. Fans almost exclusively see (and appreciate/understand) Vandermeer's work with ball in hand so have a disproportionate view of the weighting of his strengths and weaknesses.

Who is right? Dunno, but I too find him hard to watch sometimes.

I imagine that he plays the role that Hunter once did.

The one of lots of unrewarded running creating options and filling holes.

I dont get the grief that he gets, but we all have a weird selection hang ups.

God knows, I do.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

It’s always the stuff we don’t see. Whether its Gardner, Scott, Hannan, Vandermeer or whoever else is getting continual games, its always the unrewarded running and off the ball stuff that only the keen observer has noticed.

I think the main reason he keeps getting selected is that he is very trainable and has a team first mentality. Bevo loves these guys, almost always to a fault. I think Vandermeer has more AFL level traits than most of the other whipping boys and in general most of those 50 games were on merit. Someone said last night about the old saying that 50 games is when a player usually comes into their own and I think that could be true for Vandermeer. Generally players are probably 21-22 when they reach that milestone, Vandermeer is probably 24/25 which is a little different, but the lack of continuity with his body has definitely held him back. Its rare that he plays more than 5 weeks without getting hurt, if he got to play a full season without getting hurt we’d probably know more about him as a player and hopefully this is that year.

His pressure stats are fine without being outstanding. A reason he probably gets selected is that there isn’t much on our list that could be considered outstanding. The years he has played forward his pressure acts were 10.1 (2020), 13.8 (2021), 14.4 (2022), 12.0 (2024). Pretty comparable to Weightman who has been our best small forward in regards to pressure acts with 9.3 (2020), 14.4 (2021), 14.0 (2022), 15.2 (2023), 15.3 (2024). Our players are a fair way down the list when it comes to pressure acts. Toby Bedford

14

Toby Bedford

Age

23

Ht

179cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.0

2star

K

2.0

1star

HB

6.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.0

1star

D

8.0

2star

K

2.0

1star

HB

6.0

3star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

8.0

2star

K

2.0

1star

HB

6.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.0

1star

was top of the league last season for forwards with 23.6 per game, there were 10 players with 20 per game. Weightman was 44th on small forwards (10 or more games for the season). Artie Jones was high on the list with 19.0 a game and if he was better at actual football stuff he’d probably be a chance of squeezing Vandermeer out of the side.

 

[RangaRed]

If you're "ok" you can still forge an AFL career by being elite at "something".

Every week VDM seems to lead the "repeat sprints" game wide (if not comp wide) and it seems to be something coaches value more than everyone else.

Look at the tracker stats for last nights game, St Kilda dominated most of the stats especially the repeat sprints and yet they realistically could have lost by 100+ without a few junk time goals.

Footballing ability will always far outweigh sprinting stats

What vanders does is important but there’s no reason we couldn’t have Garcia or Harmes going someway to covering his running output. His pressure stats aren’t even great, they’re just okay.

I’d bring in Clarke for him tomorrow if he has a big game and give us another offensive threat, West, Weightman, Harmes & Garcia are all quick and work hard they can cover his running easily

 

[maddog37]

50 games of having a decent crack. Good on him.

 

[BEaston]

I don't think it should be hard to get someone to do what he does off-ball, while not being a complete liability on-ball. All it takes is effort and hard work. These should be non-negotiables for all players, but unfortunately a bit rare in our current squad.

 

[Al dente]

If you're "ok" you can still forge an AFL career by being elite at "something".

Every week VDM seems to lead the "repeat sprints" game wide (if not comp wide) and it seems to be something coaches value more than everyone else.

VDM leads the "run around alot and fast like a chicken and have little effect on the game" stat.
He's all Australian standard at that

 

[Al dente]

VDM leads the "run around alot and fast like a chicken and have little effect on the game" stat.
He's all Australian standard at that

I can picture his 300th game celebration event

Bevo gets up and gives a speech "Hell of a coraller this bloke...maybe the best weve ever seen". Room goes ballistic with cheers and applause.

Then they show video highlight footage. You cant see VDM in any of it....but its narrated "although not in picture, VDM is once again running around really fast somewhere in the vicinity, implying pressure, corralling, as only this great champion can."

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Who didn’t include his first name in the thread title?
compact72 ?

 

[TiAn_]

His long kick to West in the pocket in the first quarter was a ripper.