Treatment versus Vaccine

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Goosecat

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Hmmm.
Some apparent expert takes on vaccination versus treatment
newsrescue.com

Delta Variant: Natural Immunity 700% Greater Protection Than Shot, Data from Israeli Govt. Shows - NewsRescue.com

Update (Aug 27, 2021) After being fact-checked by FaceBook's “Health feedback”, Bloomberg and other mainstream media are reporting on this same finding today. Related: NewsRescue–#LongHaulers: Spike Protein Present on Covid And in Vaccines Dangerously Modifies Genes Even After Exposure – Texas...
newsrescue.com newsrescue.com
 
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Goosecat said:
Hmmm.
Some apparent expert takes on vaccination versus treatment
newsrescue.com

Delta Variant: Natural Immunity 700% Greater Protection Than Shot, Data from Israeli Govt. Shows - NewsRescue.com

Update (Aug 27, 2021) After being fact-checked by FaceBook's “Health feedback”, Bloomberg and other mainstream media are reporting on this same finding today. Related: NewsRescue–#LongHaulers: Spike Protein Present on Covid And in Vaccines Dangerously Modifies Genes Even After Exposure – Texas...
newsrescue.com newsrescue.com
Click to expand...

This was written by Daniel Horowitz. To quote his bio:


Daniel Horowitz is a senior editor of TheBlaze and host of the Conservative Review podcast. He writes on the most decisive battleground issues of our times, including the theft of American sovereignty through illegal immigration, the theft of American liberty through tyranny, and the theft of American law and order through criminal justice "reform."

So, not an epidemiologist, not a virologist, not an immunologist, not even a doctor or someone with any form of medical training. No thanks.
 
iameviljez said:
This was written by Daniel Horowitz. To quote his bio:


Daniel Horowitz is a senior editor of TheBlaze and host of the Conservative Review podcast. He writes on the most decisive battleground issues of our times, including the theft of American sovereignty through illegal immigration, the theft of American liberty through tyranny, and the theft of American law and order through criminal justice "reform."

So, not an epidemiologist, not a virologist, not an immunologist, not even a doctor or someone with any form of medical training. No thanks.
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Ah, you're one of those people. Stick to a pre-ingrained left versus right ideology regardless of anything else and lose the ability to filter. Practically every piece of information available via media everywhere nowadays is biased one way or another. When people start their positional defence from; "who wrote an article" whilst completely ignoring or having no ability to drill down and take in the information and facts within it, you know you're dealing with an ideologue.
Try to drill down and learn to separate your own bias from factual information. There is real data and there are real medical opinions given. That requires a certain analytical ability I realise but see if you can muster it. The video in the OP is also part of the information.
 
Goosecat said:
Ah, you're one of those people. Stick to a pre-ingrained left versus right ideology regardless of anything else and lose the ability to filter. Practically every piece of information available via media everywhere nowadays is biased one way or another. When people start their positional defence from; "who wrote an article" whilst completely ignoring or having no ability to drill down and take in the information and facts within it, you know you're dealing with an ideologue.
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My issue is not that the author writes from a right-wing position, it is that he is trying to write as though he is an expert on public health and disease management and frankly he is deeply underqualified on that count.

If Horowitz is postulating that the individual freedoms lost in lockdowns is not worth of the cost of saving all these lives, then he is at least somewhat qualified to make that argument, as much as I may well disagree with him. But he is hugely underqualified to assess the medical benefits of vaccination.

EDIT: I should also point out that the information that Horowitz quotes is cherry-picked and his conclusions from it are definitely his own.

For example: "Dr. Peter McCullough, cardiologist and vice chief of medicine at Baylor University Medical Center in Dallas, Texas, told me in an interview that “there has never been a confirmed second infection beyond 90 days with similar or worse cardinal symptoms and confirmed PCR/Antigen/Sequencing test” in a case where the patient already had a well-documented case with acute illness. He notes that most database studies that attempt to quantify reinfection “are not sufficiently reliable to declare recurrent cases” and usually contain a false positive PCR on one or more occasions.".

At no point does Dr McCullogh suggest that people who have had severe COVID should not receive a vaccination, he is simply making the point that there is no documented case where a patient who previously had acute COVID has had acute COVID again as far as we know, but also that our understanding in this field is limited.
 
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Goosecat said:
Hmmm.
Some apparent expert takes on vaccination versus treatment
newsrescue.com

Delta Variant: Natural Immunity 700% Greater Protection Than Shot, Data from Israeli Govt. Shows - NewsRescue.com

Update (Aug 27, 2021) After being fact-checked by FaceBook's “Health feedback”, Bloomberg and other mainstream media are reporting on this same finding today. Related: NewsRescue–#LongHaulers: Spike Protein Present on Covid And in Vaccines Dangerously Modifies Genes Even After Exposure – Texas...
newsrescue.com newsrescue.com
Click to expand...


Great site, very credible source. Lizard men are not mentioned on the front page at least.
 
The other issue is he is quite clearly ignoring any research and data that says the opposite.

A cursory glance at what's happening in Florida is pretty grim reading.

edition.cnn.com

Officials split on masking children in schools as pediatric hospitals fill up with Covid-19 patients | CNN

The polarization surrounding mask mandates is deepening as some state and local officials spar on how to approach face coverings protocols in schools, a debate unfolding as more children contract Covid-19.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com


The whole point of vaccination is to prevent this exact situation from happening. It's not only the effect of COVID itself but the effect on medical staff, hospital capacity, etc

Sure, treatments need to be developed (and will be developed) but it's clear that in US states where the vaccination rates remain low, hospitalisations and deaths remain high.
 
Rusty Brookes said:
The other issue is he is quite clearly ignoring any research and data that says the opposite.

A cursory glance at what's happening in Florida is pretty grim reading.

edition.cnn.com

Officials split on masking children in schools as pediatric hospitals fill up with Covid-19 patients | CNN

The polarization surrounding mask mandates is deepening as some state and local officials spar on how to approach face coverings protocols in schools, a debate unfolding as more children contract Covid-19.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com


The whole point of vaccination is to prevent this exact situation from happening. It's not only the effect of COVID itself but the effect on medical staff, hospital capacity, etc.

Sure, treatments need to be developed (and will be developed) but it's clear that in US states where the vaccination rates remain low, hospitalisations and deaths remain high.
Click to expand...
I guess if you watch the video in the OP you might discover there are some in the scientific and medical community who believe the type of vaccines being created and the human immune response to it may actually be making the problem worse via Anti body mediated viral enhancement Also there is gathering data that those infected with the natural virus and recovered should not be receiving vaccines.
 
If the vaccine prevents you from contracting the virus by reducing your risk of ether getting it or being symptomatic, you don't even need to worry about treatment.

Basically, the vaccine is very good at protecting you from severe illness, alternatively, I can forego vaccination and roll the dice that my body can deal with COVID and keep me alive, off a ventilator, out of hospital, out of bed for 2 weeks, etc.

I'd rather the safety of being more protected from severe illness rather than just chancing my immunity against a new virus.
 
juss said:
Basically, the vaccine is very good at protecting you from severe illness, alternatively, I can forego vaccination and roll the dice that my body can deal with COVID and keep me alive, off a ventilator, out of hospital, out of bed for 2 weeks, etc.
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I know this is a statistic that it is possible to read too much into, but I did watch an interview yesterday with a head of ICU in a GWS hospital, and he said that they haven't yet had a double-vaxxed person yet into their ICU.

Besides, being ventilated for an average of three weeks sounds hellish.
 

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Taylor said:
Not disputing the figures, but are there distinct classifications for the covid wards and ICU, or are all covid patients admitted to the ICU/HDU department because of their ability to both isolate and treat all ranges of this condition?
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They can't administer the same amount of oxygen & ventilate people on the wards. I believe this is the difference between COVID patients on the ward and those in ICU.
 
iameviljez said:
They can't administer the same amount of oxygen & ventilate people on the wards. I believe this is the difference between COVID patients on the ward and those in ICU.
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I'm more interested in the category that covid patients are admitted to - I'm assuming that since there is a need for both isolation and a potential for more advanced care required in the future that the patients are admitted to the ICU/HDU department which controls the wards they are sent to and when the data is drawn down it shows ICU.
 
I don't believe any are put straight into ICU departments before being directed to wards as you suggest. There is a triage process before any patient gets into the very small ICU department of any facility. Basically Covid confirmed cases are triaged in a separate NIPR where possible and Covid possibles, who have generally notified the hospital of the possibility and symptoms, are triaged separately in most hospitals, only the odd one rocks up to ED with symptoms and no test done prior. No one rocks up and gets placed straight into ICU. If the data shows ICU then they are ICU patients.
 
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Goosecat said:
When people start their positional defence from; "who wrote an article" whilst completely ignoring or having no ability to drill down and take in the information and facts within it, you know you're dealing with an ideologue.
Click to expand...

It's the very first step in the critical thinking process. They teach this at uni.

The reason being that unless the source is valid - you're not really getting facts. You're getting opinions. And any cherry picked facts within are used to support an opinion. Which means it's biased.


An opinion on vaccines is largely irrelevant anyway, as facts are what are important. But an opinion on vaccines from someone who isn't qualified may be entertaining to some, but it's a waste of time to most.
 
Fryman said:
Let me pull out my crystal ball and attempt to write a headline we are going to be seeing a lot of soon.

“Israel’s hospitalisations are sky-rocketing and here’s why you shouldn’t be worried.”
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Nah, It will be more like "Among older Israelis, serious COVID rate six times as high if unvaccinated"......
Oh wait a minute!
www.timesofisrael.com

Among older Israelis, serious COVID rate six times as high if unvaccinated

As government desperately tries to galvanize 1.1 million who are spurning vaccine, data shows that severe cases also far higher among younger people if they aren't inoculated
www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com
 
kingswood71 said:
Nah, It will be more like "Among older Israelis, serious COVID rate six times as high if unvaccinated"......
Oh wait a minute!
www.timesofisrael.com

Among older Israelis, serious COVID rate six times as high if unvaccinated

As government desperately tries to galvanize 1.1 million who are spurning vaccine, data shows that severe cases also far higher among younger people if they aren't inoculated
www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com
Click to expand...
The vaccine is down to 64% effectiveness, here’s why that’s encouraging 😂
They always have to spin it no matter what.

Like other countries facing the Delta variant, Israel has seen a drop in vaccine effectiveness, with the Health Ministry announcing in early July that it is now 64 percent effective in preventing infection, while effectiveness rates were previously in the 90s.

But the key parameter is serious illness, and experts say the latest statistics paint an encouraging picture.
 
Fryman said:
The vaccine is down to 64% effectiveness, here’s why that’s encouraging 😂
They always have to spin it no matter what.

Like other countries facing the Delta variant, Israel has seen a drop in vaccine effectiveness, with the Health Ministry announcing in early July that it is now 64 percent effective in preventing infection, while effectiveness rates were previously in the 90s.

But the key parameter is serious illness, and experts say the latest statistics paint an encouraging picture.
Click to expand...
"The ministry adds that the vaccine’s effectiveness at preventing serious illness is at 93%.".....................
And your quote is awesome thanks! 64% effective at stopping symptomatic covid with a 93% reduction in serious cases! Thats great news!
 
kingswood71 said:
And your quote is awesome thanks! 64% effective at stopping symptomatic covid with a 93% reduction in serious cases! Thats great news!
Click to expand...
So effectiveness going from 90% to 64% is a good thing, how?

You know you can concede the vaccine isn’t doing as well as predicted and still see them as a valuable tool.
 
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