The Sacking - 1975, Whitlam, Fraser and Kerr

[Gethelred]

Fraser was a dud, I rank Gough highly even though I voted him out. Whether he had lost control* or not, thats why I voted him out.
Maintaining the rage was a rallying call to the faithful but sounded like a sore loser stuck in the past. To that extent he shot himself in the foot.
I'm wary of placing too heavy a reliance on funding but the role of newspapers & the editorials of the day were anti Gough & it was influential, very influential.

I'm keen to see what role the Queen had in the dealings of the day but to me thats a curiousity, my sense is the people voted Gough out.

* the Khemlani loans fiasco, & the Juni Morosi affair with Jim Cairns were examples.

I've shown you articles demonstrating to you in the past that a number of organisations paid for the continuous and repetitive agenda against Whitlam in other threads.

I don't get why, if you felt Fraser was a dud, you would vote for him. Just because Whitlam lost control?

 

[Kwality]

I've shown you articles demonstrating to you in the past that a number of organisations paid for the continuous and repetitive agenda against Whitlam in other threads.

I don't get why, if you felt Fraser was a dud, you would vote for him. Just because Whitlam lost control?

Not my finest decision Fraser. The 'dud' description is in retrospect. Off the top I dont remember much of the early Fraser years, life was very hectic for me, 5 interstate moves in 5 years. The inflation rocked on from Whitlam, renewing a bill at 22% potentially scared him to this day .

Lost control is my description of the Whitlam Government, its not academic & could be contested I have no doubt. Inflation was amazing & wages were rising as was the cost of living, I well remember Mrs Whitlam calling it hoo hah as she got off a jet after another overseas trip.

Its my take of the Whitlam years, I didnt know who was pulling the strings, in those days I was in my early 2Os, got married, in the final stages of getting an accounting qualification at night school.

 

[NSWCROW]

NEVER forget

 

[HairyO]

Fraser was a dud, I rank Gough highly even though I voted him out. Whether he had lost control* or not, thats why I voted him out.
Maintaining the rage was a rallying call to the faithful but sounded like a sore loser stuck in the past. To that extent he shot himself in the foot.
I'm wary of placing too heavy a reliance on funding but the role of newspapers & the editorials of the day were anti Gough & it was influential, very influential.

I'm keen to see what role the Queen had in the dealings of the day but to me thats a curiousity, my sense is the people voted Gough out.

* the Khemlani loans fiasco, & the Juni Morosi affair with Jim Cairns were examples.

Even if the Queen meddled, Labor got belted at the next few elections. I dont think she has that much sway.

 

[Kwality]

Even if the Queen meddled, Labor got belted at the next few elections. I dont think she has that much sway.

I'd be amazed if any specific direction was given, advice yes.

 

[AM]

Its reactionary to dissolve Parliament when it fails to pass Supply Bills? I suppose it was contrary to our Constitution ?

But it was perfectly okay for our Government to approach Middle Eastern money lenders to wrangle loans worth tens of millions dollars ?

Probably okay with Mafia families being set up with citizenships too.

It was a putsch. Orchestrated by the oligarchy and aided and abetted by a reactionary piss head.

 

[Corpuscles]

It was a putsch. Orchestrated by the oligarchy and aided and abetted by a reactionary piss head.

Congrats

You have now got the speldink write, ya jus' have to look up the meaning of it now.

Welcome to Orstraya !

(note : no need to wear the blue uniform anymore, they have pinched the idea of colours and even 'fashion' now too)

 

[Kwality]

Congrats

You have now got the speldink write, ya jus' have to look up the meaning of it now.

Welcome to Orstraya !

(note : no need to wear the blue uniform anymore, they have pinched the idea of colours and even 'fashion' now too)

No idea what you are saying but it makes much more sense than the post quoted.

 

[AM]

No idea what you are saying but it makes much more sense than the post quoted.

Re the first reference, just a reactionary smart ass vainly attempting to show his self proclaimed superiority. Not for the first time.

With reference to my post, I was conscious of the person to whom I was replying which is why I resorted to a colourful response.

My point was simply that the removal of a duly elected government was a blatant political play in which a person who is supposed to be above politics was a player. As to the piss head comment YouTube his 'performance' at the Melbourne Cup in 1977.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Even if the Queen meddled, Labor got belted at the next few elections. I dont think she has that much sway.

They did - I think the point is that the Australian People voted the ALP in, and only the Australian People should be able to remove the ALP from office via the ballot box. If the people had had enough of Gough Whitlam and his government and they voted him out, so be it. It's not for an outside actor to decide.

Yes, I know that as a Constitutional Monarchy the Governor-General had powers to act on the say-so of said outside interests and that Gough's dismissal was legal and above board at the time it all happened. But it raises the question - were we as a nation in control of our own destiny at that precise moment?

We clearly weren't.

 

[HairyO]

They did - I think the point is that the Australian People voted the ALP in, and only the Australian People should be able to remove the ALP from office via the ballot box. If the people had had enough of Gough Whitlam and his government and they voted him out, so be it. It's not for an outside actor to decide.

Yes, I know that as a Constitutional Monarchy the Governor-General had powers to act on the say-so of said outside interests and that Gough's dismissal was legal and above board at the time it all happened. But it raises the question - were we as a nation in control of our own destiny at that precise moment?

We clearly weren't.

So a Government that has lost control stays in office for years?

The power to dissolve Parliament is a brilliant and vital one.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

So a Government that has lost control stays in office for years?

The power to dissolve Parliament is a brilliant and vital one.

Whitlam would have lost at the next election (as you said, Labor got belted at the next few), so why not let the Australian People decide that? I'm not saying 'suspend democracy' here.

 

[AM]

Jenny Hocking: why my battle for access to the ‘Palace letters’ should matter to all Australians

The dismissal of the Whitlam government in 1975 is our story, and we have a right to know it in full.

theconversation.com

 

[Les Malone]

They did - I think the point is that the Australian People voted the ALP in, and only the Australian People should be able to remove the ALP from office via the ballot box. If the people had had enough of Gough Whitlam and his government and they voted him out, so be it. It's not for an outside actor to decide.

Yes, I know that as a Constitutional Monarchy the Governor-General had powers to act on the say-so of said outside interests and that Gough's dismissal was legal and above board at the time it all happened. But it raises the question - were we as a nation in control of our own destiny at that precise moment?

We clearly weren't.

even good systems have flaws, the other one of course is changing PM's once one has been voted in, that makes people just as mad

 

[NSWCROW]

Should've happened again in august 2017 when the liberal government CANCELLED parliament but peter cosgrove is a weak campaigner company man

 

[HairyO]

Whitlam would have lost at the next election (as you said, Labor got belted at the next few), so why not let the Australian People decide that? I'm not saying 'suspend democracy' here.

Im not talking just about this. Elections are every 3 years. Youre okay with a Government going nowhere for 3 years?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Im not talking just about this. Elections are every 3 years. Youre okay with a Government going nowhere for 3 years?

Hmmm. You know, what if every government had to adhere to key performance indicators and if national circumstance fell below these indicators (for reasons not including outside factors such as global pandemic and associated global recession, etc) then that would trigger an election? Say a government is doing right by the People and right by the Economy. Why kick 'em out unless they start to fail in whatever KPIs get decided on?

 

[Power Raid]

Let’s not forget the sacking of Whitlam resulted in an election where the people confirmed the GG decision was the right one

 

[Power Raid]

From what we see of current day liberals, I'd say Fraser compares favorably to the clowns there now

I would go as far to say only Hawke, Howard and a Keating are our only post war prime ministers that were competent

 

[AM]

Let’s not forget the sacking of Whitlam resulted in an election where the people confirmed the GG decision was the right one

You do understand the role of the GG and how he corrupted it, don't you? He possibly was the cause of a duly elected government being forced from office by blatantly politicising the role and doing it in a quite treacherous manner.

 

[Power Raid]

You do understand the role of the GG and how he corrupted it, don't you? He possibly was the cause of a duly elected government being forced from office by blatantly politicising the role and doing it in a quite treacherous manner.

That's one way of looking at it

Alternatively you could say the same thing about Whitlam working around the parliamentary process. Not to mention the dodgy loans from dodgy lenders. We just had a royal commission for exactly what Whitlam was seeking to achieve.


and don't forget who appointed Kerr and don't forget sacking the prime minister is his job

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Let’s not forget the sacking of Whitlam resulted in an election where the people confirmed the GG decision was the right one

This is true, but in my opinion only the Australian people should have decided that. He was put there via the ballot box, he should only have been removed via the ballot box.

 

[Power Raid]

This is true, but in my opinion only the Australian people should have decided that. He was put there via the ballot box, he should only have been removed via the ballot box.

He was put their by ballot and ultimately removed by ballot. A caretaker role, with no authority was required as Gough had already demonstrated he didn't respect the laws of the land, the parliamentary process or the limitations of the consitution. Effectively Gough couldn't be trusted to act as a caretaker which essentially amounts to the GG avoiding a coup.

As such the GG acted and Gough was formally removed by ballot.

If the only cost was "Gough wasn't a caretaker" for 6 weeks or so. Is that a small price to pay, especially given the people agreed with the GG?



Imagine if Gough illegally took out the loans, in caretaker? The election would have been the same result but the new government burdened by debt he had taken out and spent.

Worse given Gough held the purse, what if he stole the funds or paid the military to support his endeavors by force. What then? Sure it would never happen, except everywhere around the world it has happened.



When a person has proven to be dishonest, untrustworthy, exceeding their powers...................bosses have to act, act fast and put protections in place. The GG did exactly that.

 

[Power Raid]

This is true, but in my opinion only the Australian people should have decided that. He was put there via the ballot box, he should only have been removed via the ballot box.

Oh and I’ll add an honest Gough should have called a double dissolution election just as you highlight.

So why did he not?

That’s why the GG had to act, to stop a rogue doing great damage to the nation he served. Instead he thought is was a nation he ruled!

 

[GreyCrow]

This is true, but in my opinion only the Australian people should have decided that. He was put there via the ballot box, he should only have been removed via the ballot box.

How do you feel about the removal of a leader by its party?