Play Nice The Merits of the AFL Womens League or lack thereof

[The_Wookie]

AFL is popular at the top end. What would be the viewing figures if the TAC Cup were broadcast live? It's a higher standard than the women's league is yet it doesn't attract any decent crowds.

Viewing figures would be better if the TAC Cup wasnt a) a developmental league and b) tied directly to an AFL club with its latent support.

With the AFL Women's league you're not going to be watching it to see great football, you're going to watch it because it's women playing.

Some will watch it because they actually support their team. Its what Netball is counting on with Collingwood for example.

Will that be enough of a draw card/ selling point is yet to be determined.

I suspect you've already determined its not.

 

[The_Wookie]

As someone who played football for many years it actually takes people away from AFL games because they can't attend due to local league commitments.

Its been the case since football began. I played football for many years, it didnt have an impact on Carltons crowds in the 90s even though my games were on at the same time.

So it could have a negative affect on people going to AFL games instead of bringing them to games.

In FEBRUARY?

That should be the AFL's prime objective. Isn't that why it's wasting millions on GWS?

The prime objectives of the AFL are both to run the AFL, but also to promote the growth and development of Australian football.

Apparently you like many others still dont get why GWS is just as important for the games development in NSW as it is for broadcast rights to the league itself. Ok then. Its not just about the AFL competition. It never has been. Its the top of a very large pyramid. Its why the AFL spends millions on development - its worth noting the budget for the the womens competition is less than was spent on funding the TAC Competition in 2011.

Then it's a lot of money being poured into something that could have easily sufficed staying at the local league levels for years to come.

Its about half a percent of total league funding for the year.

They have no choice now to keep bankrolling it now for eternity.

Well theres always a choice. But if they kept the swans running for as long as they did - and it was very close to falling over several times - then the womens comp will keep on just fine for a while.

 

[Bostonian]

Viewing figures would be better if the TAC Cup wasnt a) a developmental league and b) tied directly to an AFL club with its latent support.

Some will watch it because they actually support their team. Its what Netball is counting on with Collingwood for example.

Been there, done that. Carlton soccer club proved that theory is majorly flawed.

I suspect you've already determined its not.

As long as Kelli Underwood is calling it I won't be watching it.

 

[The_Wookie]

Been there, done that. Carlton soccer club proved that theory is majorly flawed.

again, in another code, and in the NSL at that. Hardly a decent comparison.

As long as Kelli Underwood is calling it I won't be watching it.

No way. What with all your unbridled enthusiasm for the concept and all.

 

[Garlic muncher]

They have no choice now to keep bankrolling it now for eternity.

Noob pie nailed it .... Bostonian, there is nothing to be afraid of....and you actually have a team, get behind it!.

 

[BringBackTorps]

That was at my own local football club. So nothing to do with liking or disliking. I have friends who work their arses off with the netball program, don't want them losing player after player from their program to AFL.



My comments are taking the position of looking into the future and making a call based on previous examples of such leagues in Australia.



How do you know their health? Please quote me the studies into the health of female AFL players over a period of time.




That's because the standard of play and the skills are low at present. Once the speed of the game picks up and the muscle replaces the puppy fat the chances of injury increase.

That's a rather belittling thing to say about women playing other sports. What are these other female sports that don't require any tenacity or courage?




Most other sports look into ways to reduce certain injuries, so the answer would logically be yes.



Is it really a thing? Watched a lot of soccer in my time and bar the defenders how many times a game would most players head the ball?



I've been a CFC supporter since 1977.

I played over 200+ games myself.

I went to 4 games last season as I have other sporting commitments with my local teams that limit how many games I can attend.

Do you want my bra size too?

You have called women's football a novelty, that the AFLW will be a low quality product on the field, and you won't watch the AFLW if Kelli is the TV commentator. ( Leave Kelli alone, she probably knows more about football than you do, she's a lovely person!) You have said you prefer netball to women's football, and you have watched a lot of soccer. Why the b/baggers?

You have said that the AFLW is premature, and there is likely to be extremely little interest in the televised AFLW.
Then why, on 3.9.16, did the Melb. v Footscray televised women's game have a peak national rating of 1,050,000, average of 650,000, and was the HIGHEST football rating (ie men's AFL) for season 2016; and why did the similar Sunday afternoon televised women's game in 2015 OUTRATE the men's AFL Sat. afternoon game the day before?
Why, before the AFLW has even commenced, TV stations are announcing AFLW panel shows to discuss the AFLW? They must be confident it will rate well.

What do you think the average Ch.7 & Foxtel ratings will be when the season is completed by late March?

Why are the Sydney based, national 7.30 news program, and the Sydney, soccer focused SBS news providing specialist segments occasionally on women's football in the last few months (Usually, they might devote one specialist segment a year to AF)?

Do you think one day you will enjoy watching the AFLW?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Been there, done that. Carlton soccer club proved that theory is majorly flawed.




As long as Kelli Underwood is calling it I won't be watching it.

Bostonian please stop trying to say the league is anything more than it is.

The AFL is the custodian of the game and as part of the role they have to work with the stakeholders, of which women's football is a very large part of that, and is continuing to grow.

The creation of the Women's AFL competition is to create a pathway for these players, which total over 380,000.

In many ways it's irresponsible for the AFL to continue to fund for girls to play the game, but then limit them to state league play and a national carnival - it's putting a ceiling in growth and development of female football.

Part of this is simply the fact that a semi-professional national league simply will increase participation as young girls and adults will continue playing in hope that they'll play in the league. Even in a very narrow lens, players have come out of retirement to play in the national league, we have two of our own out of retirement (Timmins and Gogos) and Collingwood got one of the best players in recent history (Wotton) out of retirement. That sort of sentiment feeds down into lower levels.

It's actually probably more cost effective to fund a national league to encourage growth and development of the game than spending similar funds on developing grassroots footy - law of diminishing returns etc. Whilst both would appreciate more money, $2 million is really nothing for the monumental impact it will have in growing the women's game at a lower level to give players something to aspire to.

In terms of TV, whilst they received no money for the rights, in the scope of women's sport, the fact that both every game is televised, and the fact that the broadcasters are paying for the costs involved, is monumental in itself.

In terms of sponsorship, both the AFL and clubs are amazed at how much, how quickly is pouring in. I've heard from multiple people that the clubs are going to massively expand their female footy departments (which will increase the quality of the sport) because they budgeted on the expectation of less sponsorship money. Most clubs have simply 2 full time staff members - a coach and an operations manager - which will inevitably lead to list managers, recruiters, assistant coaches in the future. This provides an opportunity for female staff members who might not be players, but now have potential for growth in an AFL environment beyond state league football.

The AFLW is intrinsically tied to the AFL's female participation in general, and it's a way to service the 25% of the footy participation rate that happen to be female. Given that the league is paying for itself in many ways (no costs of broadcast, footy department of individual clubs paid for by club sponsorship etc) and the costs involved from the AFL perspective are simply player payments and logistics like flights etc (which are partially paid for with new sponsors for the new league). it's really not a costly exercise that people are making it out to be.

And none of this is even mentioning the code wars and subsequent marketing benefit of poaching players from other sports, which is funny how I haven't mentioned it until now when this is what this thread is actually about.

 

[Bostonian]

You have called women's football a novelty, that the AFLW will be a low quality product on the field, and you won't watch the AFLW if Kelli is the TV commentator. ( Leave Kelli alone, she probably knows more about football than you do, she's a lovely person!) You have said you prefer netball to women's football, and you have watched a lot of soccer. Why the b/baggers?

It's irrelevant if she's lovely, her voice is one of THE worse callers voices going around. Absolutely terrible.

Why wouldn't I support an AFL team? I watch all kinds of sports and have played just as many.

You have said that the AFLW is premature, and there is likely to be extremely little interest in the televised AFLW.
Then why, on 3.9.16, did the Melb. v Footscray televised women's game have a peak national rating of 1,050,000, average of 650,000, and was the HIGHEST football rating (ie men's AFL) for season 2016; and why did the similar Sunday afternoon televised women's game in 2015 OUTRATE the men's AFL Sat. afternoon game the day before?
Why, before the AFLW has even commenced, TV stations are announcing AFLW panel shows to discuss the AFLW? They must be confident it will rate well.

Why is the Socceroos World Cup game v Uraguay 2005 one of the biggest viewing crowds ever on TV yet the ratings for the A-League ordinary?

Novelty is the answer. Suggesting that that women's game drew such figures because of it being anything else but novelty would be disingenuous.

What do you think the average Ch.7 & Foxtel ratings will be when the season is completed by late March?

No idea. I'll be more interested in people through the gates figures.

Why are the Sydney based, national 7.30 news program, and the Sydney, soccer focused SBS news providing specialist segments occasionally on women's football in the last few months (Usually, they might devote one specialist segment a year to AF)?

Do you think one day you will enjoy watching the AFLW?

I'll watch a few games no doubt. The televised game was entertaining. Watched it with a few mates and we were laughing a lot due to some of the comical things happening on the field.

I generally prefer to watch the best of a sport however. I watch the NBA but don't watch the NBL. I watch the MLB but don't watch the ABL.

You have to know that it's all about the gender that is getting it pushed and nothing to do with the quality of the play which is ordinary.

It's up tho the league and players now though to take that massive free kick they are being given and doing something with it.

 

[Bostonian]

Bostonian please stop trying to say the league is anything more than it is.

The AFL is the custodian of the game and as part of the role they have to work with the stakeholders, of which women's football is a very large part of that, and is continuing to grow.

The creation of the Women's AFL competition is to create a pathway for these players, which total over 380,000.

In many ways it's irresponsible for the AFL to continue to fund for girls to play the game, but then limit them to state league play and a national carnival - it's putting a ceiling in growth and development of female football.

Part of this is simply the fact that a semi-professional national league simply will increase participation as young girls and adults will continue playing in hope that they'll play in the league. Even in a very narrow lens, players have come out of retirement to play in the national league, we have two of our own out of retirement (Timmins and Gogos) and Collingwood got one of the best players in recent history (Wotton) out of retirement. That sort of sentiment feeds down into lower levels.

It's actually probably more cost effective to fund a national league to encourage growth and development of the game than spending similar funds on developing grassroots footy - law of diminishing returns etc. Whilst both would appreciate more money, $2 million is really nothing for the monumental impact it will have in growing the women's game at a lower level to give players something to aspire to.


In terms of TV, whilst they received no money for the rights, in the scope of women's sport, the fact that both every game is televised, and the fact that the broadcasters are paying for the costs involved, is monumental in itself.

In terms of sponsorship, both the AFL and clubs are amazed at how much, how quickly is pouring in. I've heard from multiple people that the clubs are going to massively expand their female footy departments (which will increase the quality of the sport) because they budgeted on the expectation of less sponsorship money. Most clubs have simply 2 full time staff members - a coach and an operations manager - which will inevitably lead to list managers, recruiters, assistant coaches in the future. This provides an opportunity for female staff members who might not be players, but now have potential for growth in an AFL environment beyond state league football.

The AFLW is intrinsically tied to the AFL's female participation in general, and it's a way to service the 25% of the footy participation rate that happen to be female. Given that the league is paying for itself in many ways (no costs of broadcast, footy department of individual clubs paid for by club sponsorship etc) and the costs involved from the AFL perspective are simply player payments and logistics like flights etc (which are partially paid for with new sponsors for the new league). it's really not a costly exercise that people are making it out to be.

And none of this is even mentioning the code wars and subsequent marketing benefit of poaching players from other sports, which is funny how I haven't mentioned it until now when this is what this thread is actually about.

As I always said, they should have created their own stand alone competition free from AFL influence.

Created their own unique identity. Linking women's teams to AFL clubs was a terrible idea imo. Limits who might actually go and watch a game when you align it to individual clubs.

This is the biggest free kick in Australian sporting history. Let's hope they make the most of it.

 

[Bostonian]

Noob pie nailed it .... Bostonian, there is nothing to be afraid of....and you actually have a team, get behind it!.

If I want to watch u/16 standard football I'll go watch my mates son play for the falcons u/16's.

Look I'll watch a few games probably when nothing else is on, but the standard is very average so nothing to make me want to watch it all the time.

I'd rather we didn't get a team because we can't even get a men's team right.

 

[Bostonian]

No way. What with all your unbridled enthusiasm for the concept and all.

Concept was fine without the AFL involved.

However Underwood WILL turn people off watching it televised.

 

[Garlic muncher]

If I want to watch u/16 standard football I'll go watch my mates son play for the falcons u/16's.

Look I'll watch a few games probably when nothing else is on, but the standard is very average so nothing to make me want to watch it all the time.

I'd rather we didn't get a team because we can't even get a men's team right.

Falcons ?, who are they ?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

As I always said, they should have created their own stand alone competition free from AFL influence.

Created their own unique identity. Linking women's teams to AFL clubs was a terrible idea imo. Limits who might actually go and watch a game when you align it to individual clubs.

This is the biggest free kick in Australian sporting history. Let's hope they make the most of it.

As Wookie has said plenty of time before, it's for a multitude of reasons. The use of facilities bringing costs down (the very same reason European and South American soccer clubs have basketball, handball teams etc.), the ability to generate sponsorship and avenues of communicating and marketing are better with things like combined digital and social media channels etc.

Obviously you're going to alienate some fans of women's footy in general who might not support a specific AFL team but in reality that's a drop in the ocean in the grand scheme of things.

The AFL is both the custodian of the game and operates the league. It's not great in many ways, like constant meddling with the rules (where soccer is a little better, FIFA alone can't change the rules of soccer), but in this case it is. If a club outright rebels or refuses women's footy (which is a really unrealistic hypothetical but let's just say it happens) the AFL can revoke the license of the club because they're acting contrary to the interest of the AFL.

Like... saying "they should have created their own competition" makes no sense to me... because who exactly is "they" in this case? Women's football administrators in general? It makes no sense to separate them from the AFL because the female football administrators and the AFL are one and the same.

 

[The_Wookie]

As I always said, they should have created their own stand alone competition free from AFL influence.

Underwritten by who? There wasnt even a whisper of a national womens competition - and the states that did had no money to do these things on their own. Not to mention that with unknown appeal getting a broadcast deal would have been impossible. hell even the AFL cant get money out of it, yet.

Created their own unique identity. Linking women's teams to AFL clubs was a terrible idea imo. Limits who might actually go and watch a game when you align it to individual clubs.

Im on the record as saying that this is my preference too - especially given that not all clubs received them. AFL clubs could still have operated the licenses, but like BBL sides, the womens teams should have had a different name, and logo, while being able to take advantage of the AFL facilities, coaches, and support staff.

That it didnt happen that way is also understandable. AFL clubs are better able to rally crowds and members than any other code in the country.

This is the biggest free kick in Australian sporting history.

And its meant to be.

Let's hope they make the most of it.

Dont pretend your hopes are the same as ours.

Look I'll watch a few games probably when nothing else is on, but the standard is very average so nothing to make me want to watch it all the time.

You might want to actually see a match before calling out the standard.

I'd rather we didn't get a team because we can't even get a men's team right.

Id rather our team didnt have supporters like you, but we cant always get what we want.

Concept was fine without the AFL involved.

What concept? As far as Im aware the AFL Womens comp is an AFL concept.

However Underwood WILL turn people off watching it televised.

Possibly. She might have improved her footy commentary skills since 2010 though.

 

[Bostonian]

As Wookie has said plenty of time before, it's for a multitude of reasons. The use of facilities bringing costs down (the very same reason European and South American soccer clubs have basketball, handball teams etc.), the ability to generate sponsorship and avenues of communicating and marketing are better with things like combined digital and social media channels etc.

Obviously you're going to alienate some fans of women's footy in general who might not support a specific AFL team but in reality that's a drop in the ocean in the grand scheme of things.

It's not a drop in the ocean if the crowds are low.

That alienation is due to having too narrow a supporter base for a team.

If there was a team that represented the whole west of Melbourne with no affiliation to club the chances of people from all AFL supporter bases from that area taking an interest in that team would be much greater.

The AFL is both the custodian of the game and operates the league. It's not great in many ways, like constant meddling with the rules (where soccer is a little better, FIFA alone can't change the rules of soccer), but in this case it is. If a club outright rebels or refuses women's footy (which is a really unrealistic hypothetical but let's just say it happens) the AFL can revoke the license of the club because they're acting contrary to the interest of the AFL.

Like... saying "they should have created their own competition" makes no sense to me... because who exactly is "they" in this case? Women's football administrators in general? It makes no sense to separate them from the AFL because the female football administrators and the AFL are one and the same.

The AFL are a bunch of s**t lords, that's my opinion on them. They have taken a game where people could go to enjoy a game and get away from all the bullshit in life and turned it into their wank train for pushing their social agendas.

Get rid of theme rounds please!

 

[Bostonian]

Underwritten by who? There wasnt even a whisper of a national womens competition - and the states that did had no money to do these things on their own. Not to mention that with unknown appeal getting a broadcast deal would have been impossible. hell even the AFL cant get money out of it, yet.

Heaven forbid they didn't get a massive hand out and someone else actually went out and made it happen.

If it's got so much appeal and potential it shouldn't have been that hard a sell with a vision.

We have some damn rich women in Australia, imagine the buzz it would have generated if a Frank Lowy or Gerry Ryan like figure came in and set down the ground work for a major competition.

As it is it's just like an AFL play thing.

Im on the record as saying that this is my preference too - especially given that not all clubs received them. AFL clubs could still have operated the licenses, but like BBL sides, the womens teams should have had a different name, and logo, while being able to take advantage of the AFL facilities, coaches, and support staff.

That it didnt happen that way is also understandable. AFL clubs are better able to rally crowds and members than any other code in the country.

The AFL could have just formed new clubs. Even had them affiliated with various TAC Cup sides rather than AFL sides.

The TAC Cup teams provide a better spread of area than the AFL does. You then also have better junior player development available.

And its meant to be.

Of course.

Dont pretend your hopes are the same as ours.

My hope is Carlton FC don't lose money over this venture.

You might want to actually see a match before calling out the standard.

Well the showcase game was the best of the best. It was an average standard.

Dilute that talent pool down into the starting sides and I wouldn't expect the quality to be any better than that game.

Id rather our team didnt have supporters like you, but we cant always get what we want.

People like me were the ones telling the likes of Elliott and Fevola to heck off out of the club long before the sycophants came around to that opinion.

I wish we didn't have those happy clappy types that can't take any criticism of the club.

What concept? As far as Im aware the AFL Womens comp is an AFL concept.

Just rehashing what other sports have done.

Possibly. She might have improved her footy commentary skills since 2010 though.

Its her voice. Perhaps she's had some voice coaching. The televised matches need her to have.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

It's not a drop in the ocean if the crowds are low.

That alienation is due to having too narrow a supporter base for a team.

If there was a team that represented the whole west of Melbourne with no affiliation to club the chances of people from all AFL supporter bases from that area taking an interest in that team would be much greater.

It is a drop in the ocean.

Say we consider "hardcore" female football fans to be roughly equivalent to the 4,000 who attended the VFL Women's GF, or the 6,000 who attended the Exhibition games, then throw in a few fans from teams who missed out in other states (West Coast/Port fans etc) and maybe you get 20,000 hardcore footy fans around the country. Even if one quarter of them get alienated from the new national league, that's 5,000 fans lost. 5,000 is nothing compared to the tens of thousands who would otherwise watch an AFLW game on TV when it comes around, which includes young female players etc.

More people are following women's footy because of associations with existing teams, not in spite of, which is a concept that you don't really seem to understand. And even though I seem to hate anecdotal evidence, I'll give an example of mine.

A good friend of mine is a Brisbane fan from a Fitzroy family. He's not as passionate about footy in general, and he's part of footy's version of the silent majority of people who watch their own team, and them maybe one more game (Friday Night footy), every week etc. Less hardcore than a BigFooty poster, but part of the reason why we have a multi-billion TV rights deal.

He has no interest in women's footy really, and his one and only exposure to the game was the All-Star game. He knew I had an interest in the new league, asked me how Brisbane were going to go, and I explained it to him briefly (Harris is a gun, you went out and recruited some good players from other states etc.). I asked him if he was going to go to any games in Melbourne, and he said, why not, Brisbane don't play enough games in Melbourne for their old Fitzroy fans in Melbourne anyway and it's another Brisbane game in Melbourne which he might go with an uncle or whatever.

Then, on top of that, he knows where and when the games are going to be played, because of the fact that AFL media communication channels presents that information to him.

In fact personally only ever got into women's footy largely because the Dogs have had a team since 2012. To this day, I've only ever watched the exhibition games Never watched or been to a non-exhibition game of women's footy in my life.

If the AFLW wasn't branded alongside the AFL, neither me or my friend would have any interest in women's footy. But we're both captive audience members in which we will feast our eyes on branded uniforms which creates sponsorship money. People like me and my friend are a much, much larger part of the footballing landscape than any given hardcore women's football fan. The alienation of some teams not being represented is absolutely nothing when you combine both fans of the respective men's team, male footy fans who don't have a team represented but don't care because it's FTA footy on prime-time saturday nights, and the 75% of the 20,000 hardcore female footy fans who might not have a team represented, but watch anyway.

The AFL are a bunch of s**t lords, that's my opinion on them. They have taken a game where people could go to enjoy a game and get away from all the bullshit in life and turned it into their wank train for pushing their social agendas.
Get rid of theme rounds please!

Even ignoring the moral responsibility argument of the AFL as a non-profit institution that gets government funding for a variety of reasons, the 'social agenda' and 'theme rounds' can be presented for entirely revenue based reasons. The AFL probably gets more revenue because people from diverse cultures watch on TV and go to games on the back of initiatives like Multicultural Round and Multicultural Ambassadors than they lose with people annoyed at such a 'social agenda'. And in any case it's not really an argument in the scope of women's footy except for it's a similar vein in that by providing a national league to service the 380,000 current women's players, it will help female participation and involvement in the long term which similarly helps the AFL bottom line.

And on top of everything, people are forgetting one simple thing - it's an additional AFL league which provides opportunities for all off-field aspects that fans get involved in! Beyond the obvious fact that it's going to be lower quality footy, footy nerds like myself can get involved in things like list management arguments, tactical analysis and fantasy footy.

 

[Bostonian]

It is a drop in the ocean.

Say we consider "hardcore" female football fans to be roughly equivalent to the 4,000 who attended the VFL Women's GF, or the 6,000 who attended the Exhibition games, then throw in a few fans from teams who missed out in other states (West Coast/Port fans etc) and maybe you get 20,000 hardcore footy fans around the country. Even if one quarter of them get alienated from the new national league, that's 5,000 fans lost. 5,000 is nothing compared to the tens of thousands who would otherwise watch an AFLW game on TV when it comes around, which includes young female players etc.

Tens of thousands isn't a very large number. That's channel 31 territory(yes I know it's gone).

More people are following women's footy because of associations with existing teams, not in spite of, which is a concept that you don't really seem to understand. And even though I seem to hate anecdotal evidence, I'll give an example of mine.
A good friend of mine is a Brisbane fan from a Fitzroy family. He's not as passionate about footy in general, and he's part of footy's version of the silent majority of people who watch their own team, and them maybe one more game (Friday Night footy), every week etc. Less hardcore than a BigFooty poster, but part of the reason why we have a multi-billion TV rights deal.

He has no interest in women's footy really, and his one and only exposure to the game was the All-Star game. He knew I had an interest in the new league, asked me how Brisbane were going to go, and I explained it to him briefly (Harris is a gun, you went out and recruited some good players from other states etc.). I asked him if he was going to go to any games in Melbourne, and he said, why not, Brisbane don't play enough games in Melbourne for their old Fitzroy fans in Melbourne anyway and it's another Brisbane game in Melbourne which he might go with an uncle or whatever.

Then, on top of that, he knows where and when the games are going to be played, because of the fact that AFL media communication channels presents that information to him.

In fact personally only ever got into women's footy largely because the Dogs have had a team since 2012. To this day, I've only ever watched the exhibition games Never watched or been to a non-exhibition game of women's footy in my life.

If the AFLW wasn't branded alongside the AFL, neither me or my friend would have any interest in women's footy. But we're both captive audience members in which we will feast our eyes on branded uniforms which creates sponsorship money. People like me and my friend are a much, much larger part of the footballing landscape than any given hardcore women's football fan. The alienation of some teams not being represented is absolutely nothing when you combine both fans of the respective men's team, male footy fans who don't have a team represented but don't care because it's FTA footy on prime-time saturday nights, and the 75% of the 20,000 hardcore female footy fans who might not have a team represented, but watch anyway.


Even ignoring the moral responsibility argument of the AFL as a non-profit institution that gets government funding for a variety of reasons, the 'social agenda' and 'theme rounds' can be presented for entirely revenue based reasons. The AFL probably gets more revenue because people from diverse cultures watch on TV and go to games on the back of initiatives like Multicultural Round and Multicultural Ambassadors than they lose with people annoyed at such a 'social agenda'. And in any case it's not really an argument in the scope of women's footy except for it's a similar vein in that by providing a national league to service the 380,000 current women's players, it will help female participation and involvement in the long term which similarly helps the AFL bottom line.

I don't know one single person who has any interest in the competition. None of the Carlton fans I go to the game with have any interest in it.

I don't know what % they and myself represent at Carlton, maybe i'm the small minority, maybe i'm in the majority, maybe i'm somewhere in between.

If I'm honest I think the competition as it is set up now probably has a chance to get a few people going along to watch because of the time of the year they are running it. However once it moves back to a winter sport(which they will have to do eventually if they don't want it to stay a mickey mouse preseason comp) that is when it'll face it's biggest test.

Then it'll be up against local football and other sports on the weekend which will significantly impact it's spectator and television viewers.

 

[The_Wookie]

Heaven forbid they didn't get a massive hand out and someone else actually went out and made it happen.

If it's got so much appeal and potential it shouldn't have been that hard a sell with a vision.

right. all it takes is vision to set up a national comp. you dont need anything else.

We have some damn rich women in Australia, imagine the buzz it would have generated if a Frank Lowy or Gerry Ryan like figure came in and set down the ground work for a major competition.

Like the A-league?

As it is it's just like an AFL play thing.

right champ.

The AFL could have just formed new clubs. Even had them affiliated with various TAC Cup sides rather than AFL sides.

The TAC Cup teams provide a better spread of area than the AFL does. You then also have better junior player development available.

And exclusive to Victoria?

My hope is Carlton FC don't lose money over this venture.

Carlton somehow manage to lose money regardless. It wont be because of this.

Well the showcase game was the best of the best. It was an average standard.

We arent talking about the showcase game. And we arent expecting AFL level before the season has even started.

Dilute that talent pool down into the starting sides and I wouldn't expect the quality to be any better than that game.

yawn. call me when you have a positive thought.

Tens of thousands isn't a very large number. That's channel 31 territory(yes I know it's gone).

Its also A-league, SANFL, WAFL, VFL, and Super Rugby territory.

I don't know one single person who has any interest in the competition. None of the Carlton fans I go to the game with have any interest in it.

Get out more. Or even visit the Carlton board on bigfooty.

If I'm honest I think the competition as it is set up now probably has a chance to get a few people going along to watch because of the time of the year they are running it.

Its almost like the people who set up the comp thought of that.

However once it moves back to a winter sport(which they will have to do eventually if they don't want it to stay a mickey mouse preseason comp) that is when it'll face it's biggest test.

Then it'll be up against local football and other sports on the weekend which will significantly impact it's spectator and television viewers.

We'll see when that day comes.

People like me were the ones telling the likes of Elliott and Fevola to **** off out of the club long before the sycophants came around to that opinion.

And you were such an island there werent you my special snowflake.

I wish we didn't have those happy clappy types that can't take any criticism of the club.

I wish we didnt have people condemning stuff before its even got off the ground, but there you go.

Just rehashing what other sports have done.

Sure. Theres only so many ways you can say "womens variant of a sport".



Its her voice. Perhaps she's had some voice coaching. The televised matches need her to have.[/QUOTE]

 

[Bostonian]

right. all it takes is vision to set up a national comp. you dont need anything else.

Gotta start somewhere.

Like the A-league?

Far superior to the NSL

right champ.

No worries runner up

And exclusive to Victoria?

Where the majority of players play.

Carlton somehow manage to lose money regardless. It wont be because of this.

Yet it could add to that trend.

We arent talking about the showcase game. And we arent expecting AFL level before the season has even started.

Well that should never be an expectation, totally unattainable.

yawn. call me when you have a positive thought.

Yeah because discussions have to be positive/negative. Can't be anything else. Thing about the internet is you read your emotions into words.

Its also A-league, SANFL, WAFL, VFL, and Super Rugby territory.

Get out more. Or even visit the Carlton board on bigfooty.

I get out a lot. The AFLW isn't a topic of conversation.

Its almost like the people who set up the comp thought of that.

We'll see when that day comes.

Why wait til then? Isn't it part of the long tern future?

And you were such an island there werent you my special snowflake.

Nope, plenty of fans held that view.

I wish we didnt have people condemning stuff before its even got off the ground, but there you go.

Women's footy has been around for a few years.

Its her voice. Perhaps she's had some voice coaching. The televised matches need her to have.

Well it would want to sound better than this.

 

[External Inputs]

Soccer and Basketball coverage for women's national leagues was there. Nobody really watched it though.

The W league had one game a week televised and were invisible as far as the FFA was concerned. Going through a whole season and never seeing the team you follow get a broadcast game is coverage in its most meagre form, so it's no surprise people didn't commit to watch it. I've seen more WBBL games this season than W League games in their entire history The former is considered to be a ratings hit, despite being a much newer competition, which would indicate it's an inept management issue rather than one of gender.

 

[BringBackTorps]

It is a drop in the ocean.

Say we consider "hardcore" female football fans to be roughly equivalent to the 4,000 who attended the VFL Women's GF, or the 6,000 who attended the Exhibition games, then throw in a few fans from teams who missed out in other states (West Coast/Port fans etc) and maybe you get 20,000 hardcore footy fans around the country. Even if one quarter of them get alienated from the new national league, that's 5,000 fans lost. 5,000 is nothing compared to the tens of thousands who would otherwise watch an AFLW game on TV when it comes around, which includes young female players etc.

More people are following women's footy because of associations with existing teams, not in spite of, which is a concept that you don't really seem to understand. And even though I seem to hate anecdotal evidence, I'll give an example of mine.

A good friend of mine is a Brisbane fan from a Fitzroy family. He's not as passionate about footy in general, and he's part of footy's version of the silent majority of people who watch their own team, and them maybe one more game (Friday Night footy), every week etc. Less hardcore than a BigFooty poster, but part of the reason why we have a multi-billion TV rights deal.

He has no interest in women's footy really, and his one and only exposure to the game was the All-Star game. He knew I had an interest in the new league, asked me how Brisbane were going to go, and I explained it to him briefly (Harris is a gun, you went out and recruited some good players from other states etc.). I asked him if he was going to go to any games in Melbourne, and he said, why not, Brisbane don't play enough games in Melbourne for their old Fitzroy fans in Melbourne anyway and it's another Brisbane game in Melbourne which he might go with an uncle or whatever.

Then, on top of that, he knows where and when the games are going to be played, because of the fact that AFL media communication channels presents that information to him.

In fact personally only ever got into women's footy largely because the Dogs have had a team since 2012. To this day, I've only ever watched the exhibition games Never watched or been to a non-exhibition game of women's footy in my life.

If the AFLW wasn't branded alongside the AFL, neither me or my friend would have any interest in women's footy. But we're both captive audience members in which we will feast our eyes on branded uniforms which creates sponsorship money. People like me and my friend are a much, much larger part of the footballing landscape than any given hardcore women's football fan. The alienation of some teams not being represented is absolutely nothing when you combine both fans of the respective men's team, male footy fans who don't have a team represented but don't care because it's FTA footy on prime-time saturday nights, and the 75% of the 20,000 hardcore female footy fans who might not have a team represented, but watch anyway.


Even ignoring the moral responsibility argument of the AFL as a non-profit institution that gets government funding for a variety of reasons, the 'social agenda' and 'theme rounds' can be presented for entirely revenue based reasons. The AFL probably gets more revenue because people from diverse cultures watch on TV and go to games on the back of initiatives like Multicultural Round and Multicultural Ambassadors than they lose with people annoyed at such a 'social agenda'. And in any case it's not really an argument in the scope of women's footy except for it's a similar vein in that by providing a national league to service the 380,000 current women's players, it will help female participation and involvement in the long term which similarly helps the AFL bottom line.

And on top of everything, people are forgetting one simple thing - it's an additional AFL league which provides opportunities for all off-field aspects that fans get involved in! Beyond the obvious fact that it's going to be lower quality footy, footy nerds like myself can get involved in things like list management arguments, tactical analysis and fantasy footy.

Brilliant post, threenewpadlocks.

Concerning AF game development, it should be noted that, now, about less than 10% of primary school teachers are male -in 1970, there were about 25% of PS teachers who were male.
Invariably, it was the male PS teachers who coached football, organised it, and promoted it ie female teachers were generally not strongly involved. Of course, not all male PS teachers then were interested in football, but it was easy to find some who were in the PS system.

The situation now is very different, and football is suffering for it. Due to the disappearance of male, interested PS teachers, soccer in primary schools in the southern states has got a significant presence, and football has declined. Compared to the 70's, many PS's now dont have a football team any more; or only have a soccer team; or have a soccer and football team. Kick to kick has also declined (as it has in the secondary schools). Some schools are concerned about a flying football inadvertantly hitting another child on the head!

The reason for the PS decline is that many/ most female PS teachers lack confidence in coaching, umpiring, and organising football. Soccer is seen as the far easier, and SAFER, sporting option -less chance of injury.
Some females are also suspicious of football's alleged "culture", given such widespread media reporting of AFL miscreants' off-field behaviour (who are a small minority of the 700+, but mud sticks).
Kicking, in football, as we all know is a very complex task to coach and execute directly -hand positioning on the ball, the drop, swinging the leg to meet the drop at the correct time, and making correct contact with the ball. (A very small percentage of U 15 football players have mastered kicking on the non-preferred, only till U12 can about 50% of footballers kick properly on their preferred). With soccer, female PS teachers know they can impart the kicking skills, for both left & right feet, very easily -there is no hand drop involved.
Female teachers are also often concerned about teaching tackling etc properly & safely -and the general physicality of football.

With the current, and anticipated, huge increase in the number of females now playing football, these disadvantages for football in PS's should be overcome, to some extent. Thus the AFL's important role in strategic development in safe guarding the game for the long term future is being met.

 

[NoobPie]

Heaven forbid they didn't get a massive hand out and someone else actually went out and made it happen.

If it's got so much appeal and potential it shouldn't have been that hard a sell with a vision.

We have some damn rich women in Australia, imagine the buzz it would have generated if a Frank Lowy or Gerry Ryan like figure came in and set down the ground work for a major competition.

As it is it's just like an AFL play thing.

This is the just about the silliest of this dude

Frank Lowry got a $35 million grant from the federal government to "restructure" australian soccer when he set up the A League...you all for that massive handout I suspect?

Play things? Like the horrid culture of kleptocrats owning soccer clubs (including in australia now) kind of "play things"?

It's pretty sad you are so threatened by a professional women's league you'd go on to a sub forum and rail against it