List Mgmt. The 5 Rebuilding Clubs - Who Has The Most Talent?

[Psicosis]

These always generate some interesting discussion... I see 5 clubs that are clearly in "Rebuilding Phase" to varying degrees - Essendon, Adelaide, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Collingwood. So the question is, who has the best 23 & under talent?

Essendon - McGrath 22, Parish 23, Francis 23, Caldwell 21, Cox 19, Perkins 19, Reid 19, Jones 20, Mosquito 20, Redman 23, Ridley 22, Ham 22, Draper 22

North Melbourne - Simpkin 23, McKay 23, Thomas 21, Davies-Uniacke 21, Stephenson 22, Larkey 22, Zurhaar 22, Phillips 18, Powell 19, Taylor 21, Lazarro 19, Bonar 22, Mahoney 19, Young 22, Perez 20, Xerri 21

Adelaide - Fogarty 21, Jones 21, McAsey 20, Thilthorpe 19, Murphy 22, Hately 20, Pedlar 19, Cook 19, Berry 19, McHenry 20, Worrell 20, Shoenberg 20, Himmelberg 22, Rowe 21, Sholl 21, Butts 21

Hawthorn - Morrison 22, Lewis 22, Day 19, CJ 21, Worpel 22, Hanrahan 22, Scrimshaw 22, Cousins 23, Koschitzke 20, Macginness 20, Moore 21, DGB 19, Jeka 19, Downie 18, Brockman 18

Collingwood - Rantall 19, Quaynor 21, Daicos 22, Brown 21, Macrae 19, Kelly 20, Poulter 19, McInnes 18, Ruscoe 19, Henry 18, McCreery 20, Sier 22

My personal order is: #1 Essendon (Quality over quantity, also the most balanced with talent across positions, 3 first rounders in 2020 is a big headstart), #2 North Melbourne (Deepest midfield, lacks balance across positions, quality falls off as quantity goes on), #3 Adelaide (Great coverage from a KPP perspective, needs more midfielders), #4 Hawthorn (Quantity over quality at this stage, some real gems in there but quality definitely falls off after the first 3 or 4), #5 Collingwood (Understandably, as they're the latest side to change direction from a list perspective, a lot will ride on the success/failure of their 2020 draft haul).

 

[Virgin Dog]

Has to be Essendon first. Their 2020 draft is turning out fantastic.
Some of North's youth has gone quite far backwards this year. Simpkin, Larkey and Zurhaar in particular seem to be nowhere near the levels they've shown previously. A lot of Adelaide's talent looked great on paper at draft time, but are yet to show much so far. They are improving, but so much of that is off the backs of guys like Walker, Laird, O'Brien, Doedee, Sloane, Smith, etc.

1. Essendon
2. <DAYLIGHT>
3. Collingwood
4. North Melbourne
5. Hawthorn / Adelaide

I know it's somewhat lazy, but I honestly can't seperate the bottom 2. Both have a couple really talented young players, but the youth doesn't go anywhere as deep as what most clubs have on offer (except maybe Geelong).

 

[Papa G]

Adelaide have badly ****ed up their first rounders. They have the worst 3 first rounders from the 2018 Superdraft.
Fogarty from the year before looks a bust.
Thilthorpe looks the only bloke who might be star. Sholl looks better than average. Shoenberg might develop into something, Butts could be serviceable. After that nothing sticks out.

Hawthon perhaps look just as bad.

I'd list them the same as Virgin Dog.

 

[Bradkli]

Essendon

Big gap

North Melbourne

Little gap

Adelaide

Huge gap

Collingwood- when nick Daicos comes in

Little gap

Hawthorn

 

[Psicosis]

Has to be Essendon first. Their 2020 draft is turning out fantastic.
Some of North's youth has gone quite far backwards this year. Simpkin, Larkey and Zurhaar in particular seem to be nowhere near the levels they've shown previously. A lot of Adelaide's talent looked great on paper at draft time, but are yet to show much so far. They are improving, but so much of that is off the backs of guys like Walker, Laird, O'Brien, Doedee, Sloane, Smith, etc.

1. Essendon
2. <DAYLIGHT>
3. Collingwood
4. North Melbourne
5. Hawthorn / Adelaide

I know it's somewhat lazy, but I honestly can't seperate the bottom 2. Both have a couple really talented young players, but the youth doesn't go anywhere as deep as what most clubs have on offer (except maybe Geelong).

Interested how you could possibly have Collingwood ahead of North.

Simpkin V Daicos: https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...d2=5&type=A&pid1=6340&pid2=6319&fid1=S&fid2=S

 

[00Stinger]

Adelaide have badly f’ed up their first rounders. They have the worst 3 first rounders from the 2018 Superdraft.
Fogarty from the year before looks a bust.
Thilthorpe looks the only bloke who might be star. Sholl looks better than average. Shoenberg might develop into something, Butts could be serviceable. After that nothing sticks out.

Hawthon perhaps look just as bad.

I'd list them the same as Virgin Dog.

Sholl seems like a pretty good prospect

 

[north_lad]

Essendon have us well covered and I HATE it

 

[B4Bear]

Has to be Essendon first. Their 2020 draft is turning out fantastic.
Some of North's youth has gone quite far backwards this year. Simpkin, Larkey and Zurhaar in particular seem to be nowhere near the levels they've shown previously. A lot of Adelaide's talent looked great on paper at draft time, but are yet to show much so far. They are improving, but so much of that is off the backs of guys like Walker, Laird, O'Brien, Doedee, Sloane, Smith, etc.

1. Essendon
2. <DAYLIGHT>
3. Collingwood
4. North Melbourne
5. Hawthorn / Adelaide

I know it's somewhat lazy, but I honestly can't seperate the bottom 2. Both have a couple really talented young players, but the youth doesn't go anywhere as deep as what most clubs have on offer (except maybe Geelong).

I think this is more a circumstance thing (ie no older support) rather than talent. Were they in a better team they would be thriving.

Larkey can not deal with being the #1 forward.

Simpkin has been patchy to be sure, but has improved the last couple of weeks. As he gets more support around him he will get back to his best.

Zurhaar is terribly out of form to be sure, with our injury list of 14 players, it means he can not go down to the VFL to regain some form and confidence. So will just have to battle on regardless.

Powell has been a revelation, and Phillips looks to have the tools, just needs the fitness to go with them.

End of 2022 will tell us if we have stuffed up the rebuild that is currently sitting at week eight.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Interested how you could possibly have Collingwood ahead of North.

Simpkin V Daicos: https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...d2=5&type=A&pid1=6340&pid2=6319&fid1=S&fid2=S

For starters, I think counting 23 year olds is really pushing it for "youth". I didn't even realise Simpkin, Larkey and Zurhaar were 23 already. I was already ignoring McKay as I wouldn't count him due to his age.

You're then just comparing Quaynor, McCreery and a bunch of fresh draftees to Stephenson, some underperformers and some fresh draftees. Neither are particularly impressive, and could go either way honestly.

 

[Ambrosia]

To be added to Essendon’s list: Draper, Snelling plus big wraps on Bryan with the suns apparently chasing him after 1 game.

That being said big questions marks over Mosquito and maybe it’s premature but I’m very worried about Caldwell’s hamstring.

There’s a reasonable argument that we shouldn’t be compared to the ground zero rebuilding sides like North/Hawthorn given our list demographics

 

[Psicosis]

For starters, I think counting 23 year olds is really pushing it for "youth". I didn't even realise Simpkin, Larkey and Zurhaar were 23 already. I was already ignoring McKay as I wouldn't count him due to his age.

You're then just comparing Quaynor, McCreery and a bunch of fresh draftees to Stephenson, some underperformers and some fresh draftees. Neither are particularly impressive, and could go either way honestly.

Zurhaar & Larkey are actually 22 (mistake on my part). Simpkin, Larkey, Zurhaar were drafted in 2016/17, much like Ridley, Daicos, Parish (2015), McGrath, Scrimshaw, etc.

I think it more highlights the gap in Collingwood's youth in that 21-23 age bracket.

 

[Milanista28]

Add Draper and Bryan to our list please, both look long term ruck prospects (Draper more than a prospect in fairness), also think they can be best 22 together in time.

 

[Ambrosia]

Essendon have us well covered and I HATE it

Don’t worry Essendon will probably be close mid table next year and take their eye off the ball and start chasing finals again to the detriment of the long term premiership chances.

 

[Gumby2Hurley]

We’re lucky we got overs in compensation/trades for both saad and daniher.

North’s midfield is coming together nicely with pick 1 to come

 

[Papa G]

For starters, I think counting 23 year olds is really pushing it for "youth". I didn't even realise Simpkin, Larkey and Zurhaar were 23 already. I was already ignoring McKay as I wouldn't count him due to his age.

You're then just comparing Quaynor, McCreery and a bunch of fresh draftees to Stephenson, some underperformers and some fresh draftees. Neither are particularly impressive, and could go either way honestly.

Agree. Some of these 23 year olds are actually turning 24 meaning they've been in the system 6 years. Not Youth. Youth is under 22.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Adelaide. They have the bookends sorted which is the most important part. Thilthorpe is going to do some ridiculous damage in 3-5 years time.

Mids will come over the next few years, they’re easier to recruit and they impact quicker.

 

[Milanista28]

Agree. Some of these 23 year olds are actually turning 24 meaning they've been in the system 6 years. Not Youth. Youth is under 22.

Parish falls in that category, 24 in July I think.

 

[Papa G]

Youth/Young 18-22
Prime 23-29
Veteran/Old 30-35

 

[PostPaolo]

Add Draper and Bryan to our list please, both look long term ruck prospects (Draper more than a prospect in fairness), also think they can be best 22 together in time.

In two years time that ruck tandem could be second to Gawn and Jackson

 

[Virgin Dog]

Zurhaar & Larkey are actually 22 (mistake on my part). Simpkin, Larkey, Zurhaar were drafted in 2016/17, much like Ridley, Daicos, Parish, McGrath, Scrimshaw, etc.

I think it more highlights the gap in Collingwood's youth in that 21-23 age bracket.

Absolutely does. The Pies young talent is still quite speculative, with Quaynor the only tracking elite talent in the "older youth" sort of age now that they've traded out Stephenson.

 

[Milanista28]

In two years time that ruck tandem could be second to Gawn and Jackson

I'm sure that's the plan and hope, we desperately need to get Draper fit, he's missed too much footy already in his short career, not to dissimilar to Gawn fwiw

 

[HBFlanker]

Has to be Essendon first. Their 2020 draft is turning out fantastic.
Some of North's youth has gone quite far backwards this year. Simpkin, Larkey and Zurhaar in particular seem to be nowhere near the levels they've shown previously. A lot of Adelaide's talent looked great on paper at draft time, but are yet to show much so far. They are improving, but so much of that is off the backs of guys like Walker, Laird, O'Brien, Doedee, Sloane, Smith, etc.

1. Essendon
2. <DAYLIGHT>
3. Collingwood
4. North Melbourne
5. Hawthorn / Adelaide

I know it's somewhat lazy, but I honestly can't seperate the bottom 2. Both have a couple really talented young players, but the youth doesn't go anywhere as deep as what most clubs have on offer (except maybe Geelong).

Simpkin is averaging career highs lol

 

[The 747]

Don’t worry Essendon will probably be close mid table next year and take their eye off the ball and start chasing finals again to the detriment of the long term premiership chances.

Mmm yeah the performance of the kids this year might be to the detriment of the club in the shorter term.

To the OP, I would prefer to be Adelaide of these five. Adelaide are proven to develop their talent very well. Question marks over Essendon's ability to do that.

North are pretty well placed in the medium term with a lot of young players coming through at the same time but missing a forward line.

Hawthorn are in a hole, Collingwood are heading for a massive hole. Lots of bitsa and NQR in their younger players. Daicos will help but it is going to hurt their drafting at a time where they need quantity of youth.

 

[faible]

A thread being positive about Essendon on the main board? I'm confused.

 

[M Malice]

Hawthorn definitely the worst, Essendon the best although I would argue the Gold Coast Suns are still building and have a pretty handy 23 and under group >

Brayden Fiorini(23), Jack Bowes(23), Ben Ainsworth(23), Charlie Ballard(21), Izak Rankine(21), Ben King(20), Jack Lukosius(20), Noah Anderson(20), Matt Rowell(19), Elijah Hollands(19).

That is the best of them but they have a total of 28 23 and under players.