Team perception

[burner1]

Just thinking about over the last few weeks how paul roos has continually reinforced to his players almost as a mantra that they are not as talented as other teams and thus need to work together and be super disciplined.
IMO sydney are one of the most highly skilled teams by foot in the comp yet this team mantra has worked wonders for sydney.

Im just concerned at times that we at hawthorn seem to be at times falling into the trap of 'we've got talented youngsters coming through who just need to develop then we'll be right". Teams like stkilda and geelong who've be hyped by the media as having great lists have inevitably succumbed to the hype and got ahead of themselves and failed. Freo have had heaps of talent on their list yet until this year when they started working harder and as a team have they started to go anywhere.

While AC appears to be doing a good job of instilling discipline, bring players into line and weeding out the disruptive egos, is their a chance we'll fall victim to our own hype in the next year or so?

A lot of supporters seem to be penciling us in as finals in 2007, top 4 2008 premeriship 09/10 etc etc. Basically every team in the comp has a group of talented youngsters - its how we play as a team and combine this talent into a winning formula that matters.

Just feel that while yes we are drafting some good players in its better to have a team attitiude of 'we're not the most talented group around so we have to work together and be disciplined' than 'we;ve got a talented group of youngster who'll be good in a few seasons".

To mix the two together id rather hear the players coming out with 'we're a young group so we have to stick together, help each other out and work together' than the talented youngsters line. Theres 15 other clubs every year doing their best to see we dont succeed. Success doesnt come easily and team culture/attitude/discpline could be the difference of success or failure.

I guess its all a matter of outside perceptions - the internal goings on in a club may be most important - but its intersting to see syndeys team mantra repeated almost relgiuusly by every player and coach when they talk to the media to the extent that even the media has come to beleive it.

Players dont exist in a vacuum and im sure they take on board at least some of what the general media is saying about them and their club.

Thoughts?

 

[Robber Baron]

I think that Dunstall made the best choice of coach in Clarkson and was proved to be right.

Clarkson has come to Hawthorn and all of a sudden Port Adelaide has struggled, particularly in the midfield where he was in charge. Only now are Port developing and playing the young midfielders to give them game time, but before Clarkson had the experienced guys playing premiership footy.

At Hawthorn, Clarkson has developed a culture of discipline by sending them to Kokoda and New Zealand and taught them what AFL footy is all about. It doesnt matter much about how they are going on the field but more important that Hawthorn become more like Port Adelaide in attitude so when we get better players and develop the younger ones we can win the premiership flag.

Clarkson and Dunstall are too smart and experienced to let a few get big heads. For sure we will keep improving. If Dunstall says that we are fine, then thats good enough for me.

 

[Cynic]

We have too much arrogance to ever achieve the team spirit that Sydney have.

In 2-3 years we will be the most dangerous side around but I can see us being very brittle.

 

[The Kipster]

We have too much arrogance to ever achieve the team spirit that Sydney have.

In 2-3 years we will be the most dangerous side around but I can see us being very brittle.

Your being a bit cynical I think...development to the Swanettes level started at Rocket and has moved through to Roosie therefore to achieve their mental toughness wil take much more than players, it will take all the staff at the club to think as one to achieve that goal...Dunsty played in it and I damn well know he has set us straight after our sh*tful period...my perception of the club now is positive but we have a sh*t load of work to do, to even get close to the Swanettes, Chooks etc

At least we are moving in the right direction, after the heart break we have had since 2001......

 

[WeneedyoungJarmans]

I cant see us being brittle at all. I see us being very very hard at it and resilient.

Some highly skilled sides are brittle b/c they lack hardness! E.g. melbourne who only recently have improved in this regard.

Our kids coming through are all goers and hard at it.

when finals come and the silk is out of the game and it becomes a dog fight for the footy, the hard and disciplined sides prevail.

Brisbane won 3 flags in a row not just because of their talent but their physical dominance.

Players we have who are tough and are or will be intimidating include:

Bailey
Bateman
Brown
Campbell
Dawson (!)
Franklin
Guerra
Hodge
Lewis
Mitchell
Muston
Osborne
Roughead
Sewell
Taylor

These players have enough mongrel in them to stand up and bully their way through matches.

I see us being a very well drilled unit that is hard at it and wont lie down.

What you see now is a work in progress. Just like Federer in his early days. Just working out what shots he could play.

 

[Cynic]

Maybe you're right but I just see Hodge's attitude having too much an effect on the team Kipster.

We need arrogance/confidence to become a running side and take the opposition on anyway so I'm all for it . The thought of Buddy taking the sensible option every time makes me want to cry .

 

[Hawkk]

It doesn't matter how much the media or supporters pump up the group if we have a strong inner sanctum and leadership group we will be fine - this is where Geelong fell apart.

 

[cantos_tevez]

I cant see us being brittle at all. I see us being very very hard at it and resilient.

Some highly skilled sides are brittle b/c they lack hardness! E.g. melbourne who only recently have improved in this regard.

Our kids coming through are all goers and hard at it.

when finals come and the silk is out of the game and it becomes a dog fight for the footy, the hard and disciplined sides prevail.

Brisbane won 3 flags in a row not just because of their talent but their physical dominance.

Players we have who are tough and are or will be intimidating include:

Bailey
Bateman
Brown
Campbell
Dawson (!)
Franklin
Guerra
Hodge
Lewis
Mitchell
Muston
Osborne
Roughead
Sewell
Taylor

These players have enough mongrel in them to stand up and bully their way through matches.

I see us being a very well drilled unit that is hard at it and wont lie down.

What you see now is a work in progress. Just like Federer in his early days. Just working out what shots he could play.

Very smooth, mate. Very smooth.

 

[burner1]

I cant see us being brittle at all. I see us being very very hard at it and resilient.

Agree but what about mental resilence - probably just as important as the physical side in finals? Somewhat agree on cynics hodge comment - cracks it too easily when things dont go his way and it affects his and the teams performance. Brown is another one who's physcially tough as nails but sometimes loses his head/composure when things heat up.
When we're down by 5 goals and things arent going our way and the pressure is on I want to see our players as much or more composed and disciplined.

Attitudes and ego's are something that may limit this if players start to believe their performance is more important than the team. Arrogance and confidence in your ability is great - but only when its directed to be part of the team. Brisbane at their peak were a supremely confident and arrogant team but they played disciplined, team oriented football at the same time which on top of their skills made them so hard to stop. They were a supremely skilled bunch of players but more importantly they played as a team.
I dont want to see some of our players get ahead of themselves and start beleving their 'stars.' We're got a youngish group who should stress the need to work together, help each other out and do the team thing rather than we've got some talented kids.

 

[Davo-27]

if we don't play as a team we will be pretenders..........................simple

 

[Hugshawks]

We're getting way too ahead of ourselves. This team's best footy is 3-5 years away.

Clarkson recently said he was moving away from Sydney as a target- am I the only one who is slightly worried at this?

We can have all the talented kids in the world, but we need to get the most out of them, and I just hope Clarkson knows what he's doing.

 

[Cynic]

Nope.

I hate Sydney and their style.

Give me a guts & glory style like th Doggies every day of the week.

 

[Robber Baron]

We're getting way too ahead of ourselves. This team's best footy is 3-5 years away.

Clarkson recently said he was moving away from Sydney as a target- am I the only one who is slightly worried at this?

We can have all the talented kids in the world, but we need to get the most out of them, and I just hope Clarkson knows what he's doing.

Clarkson know what he is doing. He has taken our weck of a list into the most talented in the AFL in just 2 years. The guy has an MBA so he knows more than you. He is developing the best style for us to win multiple premierhsip flags and has shown how good he is by winning much more games than all the so called experts said before the season, they said we wuld be last on second last but we won more games than even I expected.

You dont need to be worried at all, Clakrosn and Dunstall are guns and legends and they wont let us down. If I was you I wuld get ready to go to the finals next year and get grand final tix in 2008. Go The MIGHY Hawks!!!!!

 

[kolchak]

Just keep Dermy out of that mix