Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

[VinnieB]

its funny that Gulden gets pumped up as an academy pick. He was a second round selection, Campbell was the early touted one. Heeney bucking the trend of early academy selections becoming stars (to early to tell with the 23 Suns version who look like could be superstars)

I do think you should be limited to 1 Father/Sun and/or academy pick per round.
But other than that, it is what it is, and kids are being developed for AFL rather than Rigby League.

 

[Yoda_]

I do think you should be limited to 1 Father/Sun and/or academy pick per round.
But other than that, it is what it is, and kids are being developed for AFL rather than Rigby League.

I like the fact that NSW, Queensland clubs are bringing talent through. Ive suggested that if the AFL brought in contract length in line with draftee round (ie round 1 pick = 4 contract years) then should an academy player be selected by an opposing club in round 1 then perhaps the growing club could be offered a selection at the end of the second round

I dunno. Wont happen, the machoism are to much

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

its funny that Gulden gets pumped up as an academy pick. He was a second round selection, Campbell was the early touted one. Heeney bucking the trend of early academy selections becoming stars (to early to tell with the 23 Suns version who look like could be superstars)

And Warner was pick 39 from WA.

“Are the academies in the room with us now?”

 

[Yoda_]

And Warner was pick 39 from WA.

“Are the academies in the room with us now?”

him and Papley (rookie pick) were late selections

 

[SM]

him and Papley (rookie pick) were late selections

Wicks, Rampe, Fox, Cunningham all rookie selections (maybe Lloyd too?).

It's almost as if we've compiled our list through a number of different means. Just like Collingwood getting the Daicos' and Moore through F/S, a couple of our players we got through draft mechanisms meaning others couldn't access them, but also like Collingwood, we also recruited well and drafted cleverly with late selections or value additions from other clubs.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Team does good:
“The academy must be shut down!!!”

Team does bad:

 

[smeggaz]

From memory...

Heeney was the only one that went under the unfair "use your next live pick" system - went at 18....

Blakey, Mills and Campbell went early and fair value was paid (albeit the points system is a bit of a joke).

Others clubs have benefitted from the above (Daicos, Ugle-Hagan).

Campbell probably isn't best 22 (been playing in the 2s) and Mills is out for half the season and Sydney still flying.

Large portion of the team are rookies or later picks (30+ range). From those not listed above,

1-10 picks: Stephens (bust), LMac

10-25 range: Rowbottom, Hayward, Florent

In the 30s we have McCartin, Gulden (Academy) and Warner.

Later picks (40+) and rookies: Cunningham, Lloyd, Rampe, Fox, JMac, Wicks (Academy), Papley, Haydos, Amartey, Melican, Parker.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I like the fact that NSW, Queensland clubs are bringing talent through. Ive suggested that if the AFL brought in contract length in line with draftee round (ie round 1 pick = 4 contract years) then should an academy player be selected by an opposing club in round 1 then perhaps the growing club could be offered a selection at the end of the second round

I dunno. Wont happen, the machoism are to much

As you can see the salivating from both WA clubs/Adelaide clubs and what else around our list.

Something like your club doesn't really need to worry about despite performances.

 

[RUNVS]

its funny that Gulden gets pumped up as an academy pick. He was a second round selection, Campbell was the early touted one. Heeney bucking the trend of early academy selections becoming stars (to early to tell with the 23 Suns version who look like could be superstars)

From memory Hawthorn bid on Campbell at pick 5, something Sydney matched, but if Hawthorn then used pick 6 to bid on Gulden then Gulden would currently be in the brown and gold, and I think everyone agrees Gulden was worth a bid at pick 6, but despite dominating as an underager no one bid on him. They didn't bid on him because they were worried about his height.

 

[juss]

Who are the academy players from Sydney that are premiers?

For all these advantages, the Swans have won 2 premierships since 1990.

People need to get over it, just like interstate fans need to get over their ‘Vicbias’ whining.

Think we're seeing a change with the talent coming through now in academies.

Discounted talent in such a competitive league will have more and more of an impact. Watch this space for the Suns especially.

 

[VinnieB]

Wicks, Rampe, Fox, Cunningham all rookie selections (maybe Lloyd too?).

It's almost as if we've compiled our list through a number of different means. Just like Collingwood getting the Daicos' and Moore through F/S, a couple of our players we got through draft mechanisms meaning others couldn't access them, but also like Collingwood, we also recruited well and drafted cleverly with late selections or value additions from other clubs.

I don’t have a problem with academies, but you can’t compare them with F/S. F/S is available to all clubs. It may be luck or possibly early club talent identification and support, as to why some clubs have had more success than others.

The Pies for instance have had more F/S busts than successes.

Can you imagine if the Swans listed Dunkley as a F/S?

 

[bloodsbigot]

As you can see the salivating from both WA clubs/Adelaide clubs and what else around our list.

Something like your club doesn't really need to worry about despite performances.

The WA and SA clubs are circling like sharks.

 

[RUNVS]

Can you imagine if the Swans listed Dunkley as a F/S?

We couldn't. Dunkley told us he wanted to stay in Victoria, and if a Victorian team bid on him then we could not match the bid. He was only willing to go to the Swans if a non-Victorian team bid on him, so we were literally his 11th choice, and even if we did get him that way he likely would have gone home after the first year.

 

[bloodsbigot]

Can you imagine if the Swans listed Dunkley as a F/S?

We couldn't because he wanted to stay in Melbourne, regardless of having ties to the swans.

 

[RUNVS]

The WA and SA clubs are circling like sharks.

Yep, on the West Coast and Fremantle boards they have discussed making godfather offers to Warner.

 

[sherb]

Team does good:
“The academy must be shut down!!!”

Team does bad:

Yes, that sums it up.

 

[RUNVS]

Yes, that sums it up.

Which is ironic as the best player for the Swans yesterday was a Western Australian who went pick 39 in the 2019 draft.

 

[bloodsbigot]

Yep, on the West Coast and Fremantle boards they have discussed making godfather offers to Warner.

Nothing we can do about it except try to make our club the best for players welfare and having academies for home grown players (because we don't have an endless supply on tap like Victorian clubs do).

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

Having access to Academy players is one thing, but they still have to be developed properly once they're in the AFL system, which is something the Swans have exceled at.

That, as well as generally good drafting (Hayward, Warner, Florent, Rowbottom are all from interstate for instance) and list management bringing in the likes of Grundy (and actually playing him as a full-time ruck and not trying to make him a forward), Adams and Jordon and it's more that they're just a well-run organisation as much to my chagrin*.

*More jealousy because the Crows are run so incompetently.

 

[STPer18]

You do have the option of bidding them, you know that right? You passed over Gulden twice…oops

Once, Geelong didn't have any picks that draft until the night when they traded with Richmond to grab Max Holmes at 20. Regardless everyone deserved to miss on him after letting him slip to the 30s, so yeah, whatever your opinions are on the academy you can't use the Gulden case as a reasoning.

 

[RUNVS]

Having access to Academy players is one thing, but they still have to be developed properly once they're in the AFL system, which is something the Swans have exceled at.

That, as well as generally good drafting (Hayward, Warner, Florent, Rowbottom are all from interstate for instance) and list management bringing in the likes of Grundy (and actually playing him as a full-time ruck and not trying to make him a forward), Adams and Jordon and it's more that they're just a well-run organisation as much to my chagrin*.

*More jealousy because the Crows are run so incompetently.

Jordon has been a great pick up. Is in the star Grundy can be, but is an excellent tagger who is also more than capable of getting the ball and being damaging with it. I get why he didn't have a full time spot in the Melbourne team as they are stacked in their midfield, but I love what he is producing at the Swans.

 

[RUNVS]

Once, Geelong didn't have any picks that draft until the night when they traded with Richmond to grab Max Holmes at 20. Regardless everyone deserved to miss on him after letting him slip to the 30s, so yeah, whatever your opinions are on the academy you can't use the Gulden case as a reasoning.

Not like Gulden was hidden either. He was the best player on the ground in the Del Santo vs Brown curtain raiser in the 2019 Grand Final

 

[Walshawk]

At least drop the points discount, so clubs pay full price for academy kids.

 

[RUNVS]

At least drop the points discount, so clubs pay full price for academy kids.

For first rounders, but keep it for second rounders and lower.

 

[Walshawk]

For first rounders, but keep it for second rounders and lower.

No, for all picks.