SFNL Div 1 2018

[DangerousD]

Congratulations to all at St Paul’s, to think that last season the expectation was to have a good year and if things went their way maybe they could sneak in to finals.

To exceed expectations last season and to be overlooked at the start of the season as a contenter again only to have a dominant season like this one despite a chequebook about half that of your competition.

Great effort.

 

[Tigersman]

Yesterday's game had to be the worst attended SFL Div 1 GF I've ever seen.

I'd expected crowd numbers to be a bit down because of EM (their home crowds are pretty poor), but this didn't seem to be the problem: EM actually had a pretty respectable number of supporters up on the north east flank (in front of the old VFA-era scoreboard). I think the issue is that supporters from other clubs no longer go. 15-20 years ago, you'd see groups of 10-20 blokes from all of the other Div 1 clubs, plus smaller groups from most of the Div 2 and 3 sides, plus a few strays / general footy fans wearing the colours of clubs in the VAFA / MPNFL / other comps. Yesterday, the only supporters I could see (other than those of the 5 clubs participating in the 3 GFs) were two or three blokes wearing Oakleigh District jackets and two or three from Cheltenham, and one bloke from Seaford.

Why aren't general footy fans going to the SFNL Div 1 GF any more? I don't know, but I have a few ideas. Part of it is probably the general decline in local footy: more people work weekends, there's more sports on offer, more people don't have time / money to be into sport at all and, although Melbourne's population is booming, a lot of those people have come to Melbourne from interstate or overseas and don't have any interest in footy. All of these problems apply to all leagues.

Other issues might be more particular to the SFNL. Some of them are recent: the poor reputation of the SFNL due to this year's violence and abandoned games doesn't help. Others are more long term. The departure of Balwyn and Noble Park 20 years ago pretty much ended the SFL's pretensions of being a league where top quality local footy is played. The absence of big-name ex-AFL players, while good for the bank balances of the clubs, hasn't helped the league's profile. Back when Balwyn beat Noble Park in 1998, they had four or five mid to top level ex-AFL players; this year, the only ex-AFL bloke with immediate name recognition (Russell Robertson) played for a Div 2 side. (Yes, I know there's other ex-AFL blokes around, but most of them were fringe players only identifiable to more committed fans, not blokes who had big reputations). Whatever the cause, none of it bodes well for the SFNL.

Compare it to the MPNFL GF held last week. 8k crowd and several recognisable names running around onfield. The supporters are still out there.
Got to have drawcards to attract the neutral footy fans. I’d argue the lack of big names actually hurts clubs bank balances. You just have to get the balance right.


If you’re not on the SFNL Facebook page you wouldn’t even know our GF was on. Next to no promotion or additional features added to the day to make it an event.

If we aren’t going to bang our own drum and promote it as a spectacle then it’s no wonder the numbers aren’t great.

 

[Mahalo]

Surely it is time to move grounds? Springvale has no atmosphere and the surface isn’t up to standard!

When will Moorabbin be an option or Shepley?

Dingoes back in the action next year, well done to our Premier U’19’s.

 

[Mr north man]

Any truth that St.kilda City sacked Houston as Coach because a number of 1st players wanted him out? Plus the $$$$ man is also gone as well.

 

[Bull1234]

Any truth that St.kilda City sacked Houston as Coach because a number of 1st players wanted him out? Plus the $$$$ man is also gone as well.

Does stkilda city have a money man ?
I thought Richard was the money man

 

[Bull1234]

Surely it is time to move grounds? Springvale has no atmosphere and the surface isn’t up to standard!

When will Moorabbin be an option or Shepley?

Dingoes back in the action next year, well done to our Premier U’19’s.

I have to agree with you . Springvale is a bit out dated now . Even with a half decent crowd the atmosphere is crap .

If we were to play at a sfnl club. I reckon the mordialloc would be the best for finals div 1

 

[Bull1234]

Who is winning the league bnf?

I can not split between kremma from St. Paul's and Mullet from east Malvern

 

[Bunk Moreland]

AFL prelim on at the same time would’ve been a big factor in the crowd. I heard (only anecdotally) that the EFL crowd was down too.

It’s not something that’s been a factor for years, as AFL prelims have been night or at worst twilight games.

 

[leftfootkick]

I have to agree with you . Springvale is a bit out dated now . Even with a half decent crowd the atmosphere is crap .

If we were to play at a sfnl club. I reckon the mordialloc would be the best for finals div 1

Springvale definitely outdated. No atmosphere whatsoever.

Mordialloc would be good, hosted a Div 1 GF a number of years ago but IMO, Dingley would be the #1 venue to host a Div 1 GF. Great footy viewing venue and would be easily 5 rows deep around the ground should it ever be successful.




On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Bull1234]

Springvale definitely outdated. No atmosphere whatsoever.

Mordialloc would be good, hosted a Div 1 GF a number of years ago but IMO, Dingley would be the #1 venue to host a Div 1 GF. Great footy viewing venue and would be easily 5 rows deep around the ground should it ever be successful.




On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Both venues would out do Springvale with ease .

Only problem is both mordialloc and dingley will most likely be in finals for more years to come .

 

[Tigersman]

Moorabbin will host div 1 going forward.

 

[Greg Tivendale]

For a grand final. It was a terrible turn out. When the game ended it was like a funeral it was that quiet

I was behind the goals and we didn't even hear the siren..............had no idea the game had ended until we noticed the players embracing. This was the opposite end to the grand stand. Anyway, having played in 2011 and 2013 grand finals for St Pauls at Springy it definitely seemed the crowds have significantly dropped off, and as someone mentioned earlier it seems the neutrals aren't interested anymore in checking the game out as we would have done in the past even if we got knocked out of finals a few weeks earlier.

 

[Moody Blue]

The Melb - WCE game on at the same time would have kept a few away as well, I decided to watch that rather than go to Springvale.

...don't forget the racing as well... Not very smart to play the GF on a Saturday. Why not play in on Sunday?

 

[Moody Blue]

The future of the SNFL is to lure teams from a wider area demographic. They should also be targeting teams that want to make the move from the VAFA. Playing the GF at Moorabbin will give the GF a new impetus, and they really need to work on improving the advertising for the finals. Encourage kids to get to the game and free entry for them.

 

[Tigersman]

The future of the SNFL is to lure teams from a wider area demographic. They should also be targeting teams that want to make the move from the VAFA. Playing the GF at Moorabbin will give the GF a new impetus, and they really need to work on improving the advertising for the finals. Encourage kids to get to the game and free entry for them.

Port Melbourne to crib point to endeavour hills. Wouldn’t want to go any further surely? One the advantages we have against the VAFA is less travel.

There will be a bunch of new clubs popping up in the Berwick- Clyde area. I reckon that’s the future growth of the SFNL. Has to be handled with care though or a few nearby clubs will fall over in the process.

 

[Moody Blue]

Down the track I cannot see how Bentleigh, St Pauls, Ormond, Oakleigh, Glen Eira, Caulfield, Highett, will all survive in the next decade. The demographics of the area has changed, and the competition from soccer and basketball is enormous.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The future of the SNFL is to lure teams from a wider area demographic. They should also be targeting teams that want to make the move from the VAFA. Playing the GF at Moorabbin will give the GF a new impetus, and they really need to work on improving the advertising for the finals. Encourage kids to get to the game and free entry for them.

Growth area is definitely the outer south east, which the SFNL should definitely be going after. If they want to strengthen the league then the target needs to be MPNFL and SEFNL clubs.

 

[Tigersman]

Growth area is definitely the outer south east, which the SFNL should definitely be going after. If they want to strengthen the league then the target needs to be MPNFL and SEFNL clubs.

The Top Sefnl clubs would be too big in their current form. Would be going back to the days of Noble and Balwyn domination. It’s an interesting discussion. What’s more attractive to the league, a much stronger top end in div 1 but no chance for others to bridge the gap or an even, competitive competition where playing finals isn’t that far out of reach for all clubs?

It’s whats killed the sefnl. No one can compete with the big 3. No one wants to play in a comp where the best finish most clubs can hope for is 4th place.

I know my club Doveton wouldn’t be keen on another Doveton in the same competition either.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The Top Sefnl clubs would be too big in their current form. Would be going back to the days of Noble and Balwyn domination. It’s an interesting discussion. What’s more attractive to the league, a much stronger top 4 in div 1 or an even, competitive competition where playing finals isn’t that far out of reach for all clubs?

It’s whats killed the sefnl. No one can compete with the big 3. No one wants to play in a comp where the best finish most clubs can hope for is 4th place.

I know my club Doveton wouldn’t be keen on another Doveton in the same competition either.

True, but aren’t those days gone a bit? The points system has made a big difference I think. The EFL is a good example, for years - decades even - it was just dominated by 3 or 4 clubs, but that has been changing and clubs like Doncaster, South Croydon and Norwood... traditionally D2 or D3 clubs... are perennial challengers and even winning D1 flags.

And it’s harder to just stockpile players in your reserves with a salary cap.

There might be a period of domination, that happens, but things seem to turn a bit more these days eventually. It’s happening in pretty much all suburban leagues.

Just on not wanting another local club - what’s the reasons? I understand a new club obviously... but if there’s an existing club there, does it make a huge difference re player numbers if they’re in your league or another? Genuine question, haven’t been in the situation.

 

[Tigersman]

True, but aren’t those days gone a bit? The points system has made a big difference I think. The EFL is a good example, for years - decades even - it was just dominated by 3 or 4 clubs, but that has been changing and clubs like Doncaster, South Croydon and Norwood... traditionally D2 or D3 clubs... are perennial challengers and even winning D1 flags.

And it’s harder to just stockpile players in your reserves with a salary cap.

There might be a period of domination, that happens, but things seem to turn a bit more these days eventually. It’s happening in pretty much all suburban leagues.

Just on not wanting another local club - what’s the reasons? I understand a new club obviously... but if there’s an existing club there, does it make a huge difference re player numbers if they’re in your league or another? Genuine question, haven’t been in the situation.

The point system isn’t any handbrake for Narre, Cranbourne and Berwick. They all have extremely strong junior feeders drawing from massive towns where they are the only senior club. Large numbers of kids entering every year, all one pointers. Berwick and Narre field sides with point values between 25-30 each week because they have so much talent available as 1 pointers.Very different to pretty much every club in the SFNL.

The local junior comp (Sej) is strongly aligned with the SEFNL so they prefer not to sign off on MOU’s with clubs outside the SEFNL so other clubs can’t access the talent pool without every kid being a 3 or 4 point player.

 

[footyfan000001]

How do you reckon clubs like Narre, Cranbourne and Berwick would go in division 1?

 

[Tigersman]

How do you reckon clubs like Narre, Cranbourne and Berwick would go in division 1?

With due respect to our top division, they would be the three best sides in it.

They dominate a top 10 league and our league is Currently ranked 20. Not the best measure of football but in this case I think it’s a fair measure of the two comps. You could argue that we are a little better than that but the SEFNL is clearly better footy imo, the top half anyway.

 

[Tigersman]

Just on not wanting another local club - what’s the reasons? I understand a new club obviously... but if there’s an existing club there, does it make a huge difference re player numbers if they’re in your league or another? Genuine question, haven’t been in the situation.

The Doves are traditionally a larger club in a stronger league with much bigger spending capacity and drawing power for recruits, sponsors etc.

Currently we don’t have to compete directly and be placed in direct comparison by local sponsors and players. We offer several points of difference. They play country footy looking out towards Gippsland and now the Dandenong Ranges, we play in a comp focusing back towards the inner suburbs being a major one.

We have worked hard in recent years to present our club as an attractive option in a different competition rather than the little fish in town.

Having them come to this comp would remove several of the differences that have allowed both clubs (and others) to grow despite the very close proximity. It would have an effect on Endeavour hills and Hallam but clearly us most of all.

We represent Doveton in this competition and we’d like to keep it that way.

There are other reasons but probably a discussion for another thread

 

[Greg Tivendale]

Down the track I cannot see how Bentleigh, St Pauls, Ormond, Oakleigh, Glen Eira, Caulfield, Highett, will all survive in the next decade. The demographics of the area has changed, and the competition from soccer and basketball is enormous.

These clubs will be fine as they have strong juniors and feeder schools in the area. Having been at St Pauls since i was a kid, i've seen the ebbs and flows in terms of numbers but the club just fielded its first 3rds team in 2018 so this just shows it's getting stronger.

 

[2s Hack]

These clubs will be fine as they have strong juniors and feeder schools in the area. Having been at St Pauls since i was a kid, i've seen the ebbs and flows in terms of numbers but the club just fielded its first 3rds team in 2018 so this just shows it's getting stronger.

St Pauls fielding a thirds side is a bit of a false economy. They've had strong 19s coming through over the last few years taking over spots from fringe seniors and lower reserves players. Add to the fact that St Pauls 19s side which was combined with Cheltenham folded which created a surplus of St Pauls kids looking for game.

Following this year St Pauls McKinnon don't have an Under 16s or Under 17s so there will be a fair gap before St Pauls have another 19s side coming through. Doesn't help their cause that Caulfield, Glen Eira, Murrumbeena, Ormond, Bentleigh & St Peters juniors are with a 5km radius of them