Samantha Murphy Ballarat * Patrick Orren Stephenson Charged With Murder

[Kurve]

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The Murder of Rebecca Young - Ballarat

The Murder of Hannah McGuire - Ballarat * Lachie Young

17

Lachie Young

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.5

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

220.3

3star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.5

2star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

MG

210.0

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

219.6

4star

charged



Allegedly

 

[jason_recliner]

Two weeks surveillance iirc? That's not very long imo but they might have, aside from under a lot of pressure to make an arrest, have had their reasons.

That POS hasn't talked is curious. He's either old school smart which I doubt, his story involves someone else he's utterly terrified of, or he didn't do it.

Or he thinks he has a chance of going free if they don't have a body.

 

[jason_recliner]

It's not easy or cheap prosecuting someone for murder without a body or hard evidence.

Correct. If the police do not have any "hard evidence" they are in a lot of trouble!

Should police only follow lines of investigation which are easy and cheap?

If an objective can be achieved easily and cheaply it's unwise and less viable to exploit more resources than required.

 

[Kurve]

Or he thinks he has a chance of getting off if they don't have a body.

I would say that's showing a shrewdness that isn't consistent with his past behaviour, from the information I have.

 

[Zidane98]

Completely different cases though. The Police were desperate and used a complex strategy with all sorts of methods and techniques to solve a long-running case with Lynn. They caught PoS almost straight away - how long do they let him go about his life in the hope that he'll take the extremely unlikely action of returning to his victim's body? Risk/cost vs reward/benefit.

The only way to get SM's body location now from POS, if he was guilty of the crimes he is accused of, is to force it out of him in a confession. Unlike Lynn who gave up the bodies of the Wonnangatta couple pretty quickly and Bayley who also did it almost immediately when pressed POS either doesn't know where the body is or simply is point blank refusing to cooperate.

 

[31550]

Two weeks surveillance iirc? That's not very long imo but they might have, aside from under a lot of pressure to make an arrest, have had their reasons.

That POS hasn't talked is curious. He's either old school police smart which I doubt, his story involves someone else he's utterly terrified of, or he didn't do it.

Doesn't have to be smart or dumb. Any good lawyer would have told him quite explicitly to keep his trap shut, guilty or innocent.

 

[Zidane98]

Correct. If the police do not have any "hard evidence" they are in a lot of trouble!


If an objective can be achieved easily and cheaply it's unwise and less viable to exploit more resources than required.

I've always wondered this. How much economic resources are police allowed to expend on an investigation? Do they have a budget to adhere to or is it a case do what you need to secure the conviction of an alleged perp?

 

[Kurve]

Doesn't have to be smart or dumb. Any good lawyer would have told him quite explicitly to keep his trap shut, guilty or innocent.

Like they told Greg Lynn?

The cops have ways of stalling lawyers and they absolutely would have had the opportunity to place a heap of pressure on.

 

[Zidane98]

I would say that's showing a shrewdness that isn't consistent with his past behaviour, from the information I have.

Simply put - giving up the body offers any alleged perp in this case nothing legally. Can the DPP come to the party and say instead of 40 years you'll get 25 years + parole for instance? There must be a point where getting some justice is better than no justice.

 

[Kurve]

I've always wondered this. How much economic resources are police allowed to expend on an investigation? Do they have a budget to adhere to or is it a case do what you need to secure the conviction of an alleged perp?

Undercover operations can go for a year before the brass starts putting pressure on for answers, then it might be extended.

 

[Zidane98]

Undercover operations can go for a year before the brass starts putting pressure on for answers, then it might be extended.

So no real set rules. More on a case to case basis.

 

[Kurve]

Simply put - giving up the body offers any alleged perp in this case nothing legally. Can the DPP come to the party and say instead of 40 years you'll get 25 years + parole for instance? There must be a point where getting some justice is better than no justice.

The Matthew Leveson case in NSW is one where a deal was done to recover the body to no consequence, that was a long way down the track though.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Interesting if POS get off the charge.

Most police then come out with the old
,"we are not pursuing anybody else".
That covers the time wasted on POS and not looking elsewhere.

 

[Underarrest_]

Completely different cases though. The Police were desperate and used a complex strategy with all sorts of methods and techniques to solve a long-running case with Lynn. They caught PoS almost straight away - how long do they let him go about his life in the hope that he'll take the extremely unlikely action of returning to his victim's body? Risk/cost vs reward/benefit.

Still possible. Agree though they have to weigh up risk (to the community at least.) Possibly telling that they have some concrete evidence.

 

[thumbs_up]

Ever met a clever policeman?

They call them police officers these days. Believe it or not but women can do the job too

 

[Sqotty from office works]

They call them police officers these days. Believe it or not but women can do the job too

Wooooooo

 

[Zidane98]

Still possible. Agree though they have to weigh up risk (to the community at least.) Possibly telling that they have some concrete evidence.

Whatever it is they must have much more than POS & SM being in the same area at the same time on a Sunday morning. That wouldn't see anyone arrested usually.

 

[jason_recliner]

I've always wondered this. How much economic resources are police allowed to expend on an investigation? Do they have a budget to adhere to or is it a case do what you need to secure the conviction of an alleged perp?

The police budget is finite, set by the government budget of the period. Within that, personnel is a significant portion of the budget, possibly the biggest category. So that then sets the number of officers available, and must be spread across all policing tasks. Management have a lot of discretion how resources are allocated to cases and general policing activities (e.g. traffic, DV, beat cops, etc). And then there is influence such as public interest and political pressure (e.g. increased focus on DV, William Tyrell). Budgets can usually be exceeded by some amount but at some point it's not possible to keep spending (e.g. Alice Springs summer 23/24, when police were reassigned from around NT rather than new hires). And then there are consultants and other suppliers who can be brought on board if necessary for cases/work of sufficient priority to the force, providing additional resources without counting towards personnel/labour (e.g. when labour budget has been exhausted and/or moratorium on hiring). Ultimately management and in high interest / high profile cases the Department/Minster/Government decide how the finite resources are allocated across specific cases (given that a bunch of expenditure is effectively constant and fixed, leaving a 'discretionary' amount available).

 

[jason_recliner]

I would say that's showing a shrewdness that isn't consistent with his past behaviour, from the information I have.

Maybe, but he might just think he's tough/gangsta and smarter than the police and DPP. Let's see how staunch he is when he's being sentenced and No Body No Parole is starting to weigh on his mind

 

[Zidane98]

The police budget is finite, set by the government budget of the period. Within that, personnel is a significant portion of h budget, possibly the biggest category. So that then sets the number of officers available, and must be spread across all policing tasks. Management have a lot of discretion how resources are allocated to cases and general policing activities (e.g. traffic, DV, beat cops, etc). And then there is influence such as public interest and political pressure (e.g. increased focus on DV, William Tyrell). Budgets can usually be exceeded by some amount but at some point it's not possible to keep spending (e.g. Alice Springs summer 23/24, when police were reassigned from around NT rather than new hires). And then there are consultants and other suppliers who can be brought on board if necessary, providing additional resources without counting towards personnel/labour (e.g. when labour budget has been exhausted and/or moratorium on hiring). Ultimately management and in high interest / high profile cases the Department/Minster/Government decide how the finite resources are allocated across specific cases (given that a bunch of expenditure is effectively constant and fixed, leaving a 'discretionary' amount available).

Thanks for that, very informative.

 

[Underarrest_]

They call them police officers these days. Believe it or not but women can do the job too

Also quite clever

 

[Awakening]

Unless he tells them where the body is, it will take a miracle to find her remains.

There are so many potential places. Some extremely dense vegetation. Plenty of mine shafts and hidey holes in the bush. Sheer drops where you could push a body off and they’d never be found.

POS a local kid who rode dirt bikes would be very familiar with the area.

Not to mention that with the amount of wildlife and passing of time, her remains would now be even harder to find.

 

[mrskafoops]

They call them police officers these days. Believe it or not but women can do the job too

Maybe he just thinks all policewomen are clever?

 

[MurderyStuff]

Heya,

Sometimes things are just as they seem. He might just be a socially awkward weirdo. Or he could be the one responsible, you never know, right? They had their sights set on Lance and were absolutely convinced he was the CSK, and we all know how that story played out.

I'll tell you a little about my story though. I met my ex and we had a relationship that moved pretty quick in the beginning. In hindsight I was manipulated and have never, ever encountered anyone that made me feel so bad about myself. He twisted things and there was gas-lighting. Took me about 5 attempts to leave the relationship. We had 2 kids together and it was one of the most difficult situations I have ever been in. This man is very socially awkward, can get jobs, can't hold them, has been pulled in to HR and taken to court too many times to remember. I left this guy in 2014 and my most recent VRO expired just last year. He is creepy, I have had a woman contact me, scared, because they thought he was stalking them (long story there).

My point is, he sounds like the guy you are working with. And just because someone is creepy af and a complete weirdo doesn't mean that they are capable of murder. Usually these guys take out their frustrations and animosity towards women behind their keyboards.

My ex hurt me physically, yes, and this guy you work with would probably too, but lashing out at a partner is very different to planning and executing what would have to have been a well planned murder.

Have you tried cyber-stalking him?? Finding out who his ex is?

Yes I have, zero socials. He definitely doesn’t come across as someone who would attract a partner. Attack could’ve been frustration, just a random with accidental consequences. I don’t think the car damage is as a result of collision with a person. My understanding of the car with panel damage is simply that one was reported in the vicinity at the time. If it is my weirdo her body could be anywhere between Ballarat and my town in QLD. He stated he threw all his clothes in the backseat of his car and left town…..why not the boot? I’m sorry for your suffering through your DV situation but cheering you on for escaping. I was in a similar, no kids thank God but it took his ex-wife, myself and the gf after me to put him in prison and cost me my career (a longer story).

 

[31550]

one was reported in the vicinity at the time

I don't know how reliable or meaningful this is. If a damaged vehicle was reported in the vicinity at the time of the crime, where is the vehicle description? Who reported it, what type of damage, when and where? Wouldn't police be trying to locate this vehicle and its owner, or at least other witnesses to verify the accuracy of this evidence?

On the other hand, I do seem to remember video of the police searching around Mt Clear (IMO staged for the media), only a few days after SM disappeared, where they examined what looked like a brownish substance, probably tree sap on a tree near a vehicular track. This may or may not have been evidence of a vehicle hitting that tree, but we don't know if that particular tree was the location where the alleged incident occurred, or whether the tree was in fact damaged by a vehicle, or what type of vehicle or when.

 

[thumbs_up]

I thought the police said they were looking for a vehicle with damage, then seized POS' vehicle, then charged him with murder. I'm assuming the police believe they found the vehicle they were looking for.