Rudd vs Gillard reprised: The Killing Season, ABC TV

[Dry Rot]

Nup. Haven't forgotten. That's why I'm asking you to be specific on why you think he was sexist. Describing female genitalia as looking like mussel meat out of the shell isn't sexist to me, nor even necessarily negative. And if you think describing genitalia in unflattering ways is sexist, what about the fact women and men refer to 'bumping uglies'?

Try those descriptions with your girlfriend, or a faghag friend if you're gay.

Except he didn't say that, did he? He just said that he hadn't seen another government lose power in 6 years from those 2007 levels of vote and goodwill.

You really don't do your credibility any good round here.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Try those descriptions with your girlfriend, or a faghag friend if you're gay.

You must be an odd man if you think the only reason I would know a girl is if I was sleeping with her or I was gay. But that skewed view may help explain your keen dislike of Gillard.

You really don't do your credibility any good round here.

What amazing arguments. You are a true genius whose words I shall keep in mind every day I wake up as they surely are the gospel. /sarcasm <--- see I can use rhetorical tactics that have no relevance to the discussion too.

Then please rate the Gillard govt vs all Fed govts since Holt.

Given I disagreed with Bollox' suggestion that 07-13 Labor were the "Worst government in our history", why would you have stipulated "since Holt"? Do you disagree too? And the current government is absolutely performing worse than Labor at the same time. Their one success story is a relatively small issue in the scheme of things - asylum seekers who arrive by boat - and the unjustified lack of transparency in their policy is a stain on that success. I am very wary of governments who consider transparency to be a weakness, and coupled with their current desire to have a government minister decide guilt and innocence, superceding any decision of law, it shows fleeting tendencies to authoritarianism.

 

[Dry Rot]

You must be an odd man if you think the only reason I would know a girl is if I was sleeping with her or I was gay. But that skewed view may help explain your keen dislike of Gillard.

OK, try it with your mum or a female friend.

What amazing arguments. You are a true genius whose words I shall keep in mind every day I wake up as they surely are the gospel. /sarcasm <--- see I can use rhetorical tactics that have no relevance to the discussion too.

If you don't think that UK bloke Milburn doesn't think that they were a bunch of arse clowns on what he said, then no-one can help you.

Given I disagreed with Bollox' suggestion that 07-13 Labor were the "Worst government in our history", why would you have stipulated "since Holt"? Do you disagree too? And the current government is absolutely performing worse than Labor at the same time. Their one success story is a relatively small issue in the scheme of things - asylum seekers who arrive by boat - and the unjustified lack of transparency in their policy is a stain on that success.

I asked you a very precise question which you have refused to answer. Typical.

 

[blackcat]

the only reason the slippers text message got out in the public, was so the Libs could damage and humiliate and intimidate and pursue a trial by media in unison with cabcharge dry whites. i think it is neutral, whether or not it was for public consumption, but for chrissakes, there would be no comedy festival if all you could say was PC. dry rot, repeat after me: carntanuscockcarntanuscockcarntanuscock

see, it aint too difficult. we can get a little precious and indignant about this. the guy was hung drawn and quartered for indulging in cabcharge and pinot, and you wanna hang him for shellfish. and get this, he's kosher, he wont eat that pussy.

 

[Dry Rot]

the only reason the slippers text message got out in the public, was so the Libs could damage and humiliate and intimidate and pursue a trial by media in unison with cabcharge dry whites. i think it is neutral, whether or not it was for public consumption, but for chrissakes, there would be no comedy festival if all you could say was PC. dry rot, repeat after me: carntanuscockcarntanuscockcarntanuscock

see, it aint too difficult. we can get a little precious and indignant about this. the guy was hung drawn and quartered for indulging in cabcharge and pinot, and you wanna hang him for shellfish. and get this, he's kosher, he wont eat that pussy.

blackcat, time before last I was in Canberra I re-enacted Slipper's winery tour. He had a serious lunch at a very poor winery. If my taxes are paying for this, he could have at least drunk decent piss.

At least Craig Thomson banged hot whores with HSU money.

 

[The Punter]

Swan's mismanagement of the mining tax betrayed his true feelings about those from another class, which he stated pretty clearly in his book.

Swan is the thread of consistency through the entire Rudd/Gillard years, except for the Rudd epilogue. Clearly Rudd managed the GFC with Ken Henry. Swan's devotion to the best possible outcomes in Treasury projections led to years of fake surpluses. Criticise Hockey all you like for calling a budget emergency and then not doing nearly enough to fix it, but Hockey's projections have been from the lower end of revenue forecasts, so his numbers look appalling.

And in terms of worst governments, and separating term 1 from term 2 in this instance, post war, the bottom grouping includes McMahon, Whitlam, Keating, Rudd & Gillard. Out of those Whitlam and to a lesser extent Keating did poorly trying something transformational, while the other three were largely ineffectual. I've never seen someone with the talent for playing the politics poorly than Julia Gillard.

I'm not sure who I am more inclined to believe after last night. Rudd openly admitted briefing the press about their meeting on the night of the knives, but denied betraying Cabinet confidences. This is understandable and provides little insight into whether he is telling the truth about the second one. Again, Anthony Albanese comes out smelling of roses, as he should. If Shorten quits he'll probably get shafted again for the leadership, which would be a shame. Combet again came across well, and he gets it. Yes, the most vociferous criticism appeared in the NewsCorp publications, but Combet didn't want to appear like Conroy and others like he was just having a whinge. I hope he is doing important work post politics.

 

[Bollox]

Why does Sam Dastyari continually try to come across as some sort of new age Richo power broker numbers man ?
Cringeworthy stuff.
He even tries to promote a nickname he must be particularly proud of.

Out of control ego's...i cannot even fathom why ANY of them would even agree to take part in the show. If they valued the ALP at all there couldnt be a single good reason to take part.

Bunch of easily replaced career pollies consumed by self importance....only taking part because they were concerned someone else might try to verbal them knowing there was no recourse.

 

[swingdog]

Why does Sam Dastyari continually try to come across as some sort of new age Richo power broker numbers man ?
Cringeworthy stuff.
He even tries to promote a nickname he must be particularly proud of.

Out of control ego's...i cannot even fathom why ANY of them would even agree to take part in the show. If they valued the ALP at all there couldnt be a single good reason to take part.

Bunch of easily replaced career pollies consumed by self importance....only taking part because they were concerned someone else might try to verbal them knowing there was no recourse.

There's your answer. I'm guessing Bitar and Arbib probably wanted to but were told not to by Packer.

 

[Maggie5]

Under different circumstances, the Gillard government would have been a great government IMO.
So much of the program was personal and very little on policy. Hate this type of politics.
How anyone can believe Rudd is beyond me. He was playing a role and not very well, could see right through him.
As for the other bit players Combet is a star.
I am really concerned at the state of politics in this country, most untrustworthy lot ever, both sides.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Swan's mismanagement of the mining tax betrayed his true feelings about those from another class, which he stated pretty clearly in his book.

That's pretty non-specific. The mining tax was a clear and obvious response to the two-speed economy, and it's hard to see which "class" you are referring to in that case. Mining owners are obviously rich, but aren't exactly the stereotypical upper-class, and of course the largely male workers are stereotypically working-class while being very well paid. It sounds to me like you're repeating Liberal talking points. Asset-testing would be a more legitimate reason for a "class warfare" beat-up, or maybe the one hour on one morning when Gillard had a go at people on the "Northern Beaches" - but both of those are entirely justifiable: as logical economic management in the former case, and in the latter the Nth Beaches is where Abbott's electorate is.

 

[romeohwho]

Not many came out of the series looking good. Tone came across as the worst last night. No sense of common decency at all.

 

[Gough]

That's pretty non-specific. The mining tax was a clear and obvious response to the two-speed economy, and it's hard to see which "class" you are referring to in that case. Mining owners are obviously rich, but aren't exactly the stereotypical upper-class, and of course the largely male workers are stereotypically working-class while being very well paid. It sounds to me like you're repeating Liberal talking points. Asset-testing would be a more legitimate reason for a "class warfare" beat-up, or maybe the one hour on one morning when Gillard had a go at people on the "Northern Beaches" - but both of those are entirely justifiable as logical economic management in the former case, and in the latter the Nth Beaches is where Abbott's electorate is.

It's only class warfare when the ALP wage it. It's fairness when the Libs do it.

 

[The Punter]

When in doubt, if disagreeing with a person, just say they are spouting non thinking lines thought of by someone else. This will do incredible things for public discourse.

If those on here want to defend Wayne Swan then that is their choice, but he is not talent. There are others who would have done a better job in the most important of portfolios, but Swan was kept in that portfolio for almost a decade.

Also, why has he not retired from Parliament? I understand serving the current term to its conclusion, but he had ample opportunity to leave politics in 2013, as did Combet and others. If we can question Rudd for not leaving in 2010...

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

When in doubt, if disagreeing with a person, just say they are spouting non thinking lines thought of by someone else. This will do incredible things for public discourse.

Except I didn't just say that. I gave detailed reasons for why I thought you *may have been* repeating a talking point. Like DR above, you then decided to not address the pertinent points and instead make a general argument that isn't directly relevant to the discussion.

I could be wrong, but I assume other readers can see this is a tactic. People who normally have confident, critical opinions suddenly turning sensitive and making general defensive arguments? I don't buy it.

 

[Grave Danger]

And Gillard made that hypocritical speech in a debate defending her sexist misogynist Speaker....

What Gillard thought she was saying: "It's wrong to criticise me because I'm a woman"

What the wrong people thought she was saying: "It's wrong to criticise me, because I'm a woman"

 

[The Punter]

Ok, so we're going to disagree. If the Mining Tax was a response to a two speed economy, it was a poor one. Firstly, it didn't really bring in any money, and by Gillard's own concession in yesterday's episode, this was due to it being rushed. On rushing policy, the Rudd/Gillard governments had runs on the board. Secondly through its initial design process, the industry was never brought on board. It was only when the reaction came, which was predictable, that consultation, with select members of the industry, occurred.

I haven't made any comments about you other than the derision of the talking points remark, so I'm happy to sit on the "not playing the man" highground, always cognisant of the fact that I'm not going to convince everybody. But I've done my best to defend my opinion and happy to let it sit at that.

 

[swingdog]

Of course, what they should have done was released the full Henry tax review and use that as the basis for a policy discussion with the electorate about the pros and cons of different tax approaches.

What happened was they got scared of the Lib / media narrative of "ooh, tax! Bad!" and tried to cherry-pick something they thought would be politically popular.

 

[midorigreenwood]

The mining tax was less a philosophical mistake than one of timing.

It was 10 - 15 years too late... mining revenues was already on the way down once the tax was implemented. The boom was over and the government missed the boat.

I'd say with the benefit of hindsight, the biggest mistake labor made with regards to the economy was to honour Howard era election promises.

This entrenched the structural deficit in the government's books that has still yet to be solved.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Ok, so we're going to disagree. If the Mining Tax was a response to a two speed economy, it was a poor one...

The mining tax was an adjunct to my reply - I was interested in why you thought Swan had conducted "class warfare"?

The mining tax was less a philosophical mistake than one of timing.

It was 10 - 15 years too late... mining revenues was already on the way down once the tax was implemented. The boom was over and the government missed the boat.

I don't think that was the case. The boom was at its strongest during the Labor years. But the mining companies wrote off their record investment levels at that time in order to minimise profits and get them to mostly fall under the "super profits" threshold. They couldn't have done this for the next financial year, and the tax did raise some revenue - a quarter of a billion from memory (EDIT: Wiki says $126M in the first 6 months so maybe it was a bit higher - PEEFO projected a $6B take over forward estimates, but of course Abbott repealed it in Sep 2014 and resource prices have dropped).

Of course if the tax had come back in Howard's time then there's no reason to think Howard wouldn't have done exactly what he did do with the mining boom revenue then - give it back to people in cash handouts and tax cuts. Infrastructure wasn't his thing.

 

[midorigreenwood]

No doubt the mining companies kicked labor in the balls and no one will be brave to take them on again (which doesn't bode well if countries like India or Indonesia get their act together one day and another boom comes along)...

however I remember reading in Fairfax that even the original implementation of the mining tax wouldnt have raised much revenue either.

The revised version was basically a declaration of surrender.

 

[Demosthenes]

the mining companies wrote off their record investment levels at that time in order to minimise profits and get them to mostly fall under the "super profits" threshold. They couldn't have done this for the next financial year

This is either an impressively poor understanding of the tax system, or an impressively good rewriting of history. If the tax was designed adequately it would have raised plenty of money, but it wasn't so it didn't. Swan mismanaged the whole process of formulating the tax and the big miners ran rings around him. Kohler summed it up well at the time:

www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-23/kohler-mining-tax-everyone-a-loser/3688070

Few people would disagree. It is hard to take seriously anyone who tries to defend Swan's efforts. He will go down in history as the man who squandered the boom and destroyed the last meaningful elements of Australia's manufacturing industry. An ignoble achievement for a Labor treasurer.

 

[King Elvis]

You can't assume people know stuff, especially if nothing changes. While I am sure Rudd is less than trustworthy on many things, Gillard has admitted as much - she did not have those discussions with him.

At the very least she should have asked Rudd about how he was feeling if she was so concerned with his health and mental state she thought it was affecting his job performance.

And Swan and his reluctance to say they were friends. If I was Rudd and was in the room when Swan said what he said, describing the godfather of one of his children as someone with whom he "had friendly relations on a personal level", I would have slapped him in the face. Swan is the one constant: regardless of leader, except for the Rudd epilogue in 2013, Swan was there for all of it, Treasurer the whole time, architect of some of the biggest stuff ups in recent Australian political history. He should not be remembered fondly.

I've met him a couple of times, socially; bloke is a dead set moron.

Turning up to a black tie even in jeans was an indicator, listening to him talk confirmed it.

And the Mining Tax was an absolute joke - I can't be bothered revisiting it, but it was a nonsensical mess; they had no idea what they were doing, and destroyed a good idea as a result.

 

[King Elvis]

First day Turnbull was leader the ALP & Green members would turn up to parliament in utes with Godwin Grech masks on.
Game over right there

As I have posted before,the people that want Turnbull to lead the Libs would never vote Liberal ever

Game over?

Any one competent would have a field day slamming them for acting like children and making a mockery of our parliament.

I've mostly voted Liberal (Federally anyway); I would love Turnbull to be PM, and so do most Lib voters I know.

Some of them might not like him, but if they don't like him, they'd hate Labor, so they won't vote for them, and he'd drag a lot of Labor people over to his side.

He'd s**t it in.

 

[King Elvis]

Also, I haven't met Combet, but knowing a few people who worked for a variety of senior ALP Parliamentarians and Ministers, they all absolutely raved about Combet.

He's the one I thought might shake Labor up (with Tanners help) and get them back on track...

Sadly, his intelligence and the fact he is a man of integrity were contradictory to Australian Politics, so you can't blame him for bailing.

They rave about Wong as well; shame she doesn't present better.

I almost spewed every time I saw that lickspittle Howes.

AWU boss, the worker's friend, who could forget seeing him on Lateline the night that the "assassin" Gillard struck?

Then he starts rooting the Qantas head of PR who demonised his workers, pops up on a champagne Qantas flight to celebrate the Emirates union with Qantas, resigns and guess what?

He now is a partner at the worker's friendly accounting firm, KPMG.

http://www.kpmg.com/au/en/issuesand...ecord-number-of-new-partners-22-jun-2015.aspx

Utter piece of s**t.

Haha, seriously?

God he's a piece of s**t.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

I've met him a couple of times, socially; bloke is a dead set moron.
.

Who are you talking about?