Protecting George Pell

Remove this Banner Ad

Ghost Patrol said:
Saints aren't real.
Click to expand...
well its still an insult to the concept of saints (which are real to the Christian religious types, and doesn't matter to then non religious if they believe as long as they don't do actions that infringe on the non religious because "the saints told them to" - which should really be seen as a symptom of psychosis)
 
CD Xbow said:
Interesting article in the Saturday Paper about Pell, written by a fellow seminarian who knew him well. Recommend anyone interested to read it.

Cardinal George Pell’s sendoff

If you can't read the article online you should be able to read it here
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. As a Recovering Catholic, I don't know anyone from my time attached to the church who doesn't know someone who was sexually abused. In my case, I knew half a dozen people who suffered abuse, with varying outcomes from alcohilism to committing domestic violence to suicide. Now, 40 years later, they have all passed away. It was common knowledge at the time that priests were being moved around at the time to protect them.

Looking back, apart from the tragedy of the victims, I am also struck by the inactivity of family members, and fellow church goers who knew what was happening and did nothing. I have even looked very close to home and seen the same impassivity. While the church hierarchy criminally encouraged, covered up, and maintained the abuse for generations, there was a fair bit of aiding and abetting going on in the pews too.

For me the church is summed up in the Grand Inquisitor episode of the Brothers Karamazov in which Christ returns to discover the church has become a corrupt materialist controller of the flock, having discarded all spirituality and love/compassion for the cynical power politics of control and obfuscation. And regular folk let it happen.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Osho said:
Thanks for that. As a Recovering Catholic, I don't know anyone from my time attached to the church who doesn't know someone who was sexually abused. In my case, I knew half a dozen people who suffered abuse, with varying outcomes from alcohilism to committing domestic violence to suicide. Now, 40 years later, they have all passed away. It was common knowledge at the time that priests were being moved around at the time to protect them.

Looking back, apart from the tragedy of the victims, I am also struck by the inactivity of family members, and fellow church goers who knew what was happening and did nothing. I have even looked very close to home and seen the same impassivity. While the church hierarchy criminally encouraged, covered up, and maintained the abuse for generations, there was a fair bit of aiding and abetting going on in the pews too.

For me the church is summed up in the Grand Inquisitor episode of the Brothers Karamazov in which Christ returns to discover the church has become a corrupt materialist controller of the flock, having discarded all spirituality and love/compassion for the cynical power politics of control and obfuscation. And regular folk let it happen.
Click to expand...
In defence of the regular folk, it’s clear that what the Catholic Church (and other churches and institutions and other centres of power) have been engaging in for decades is gaslighting on an industrial scale.

Even if an ordinary mum or dad had the nerve to stand up and call out what they believed was happening, the full, awesome weight of the incumbent power would be brought down on them.
 
Osho said:
Thanks for that. As a Recovering Catholic, I don't know anyone from my time attached to the church who doesn't know someone who was sexually abused. In my case, I knew half a dozen people who suffered abuse, with varying outcomes from alcohilism to committing domestic violence to suicide. Now, 40 years later, they have all passed away. It was common knowledge at the time that priests were being moved around at the time to protect them.

Looking back, apart from the tragedy of the victims, I am also struck by the inactivity of family members, and fellow church goers who knew what was happening and did nothing. I have even looked very close to home and seen the same impassivity. While the church hierarchy criminally encouraged, covered up, and maintained the abuse for generations, there was a fair bit of aiding and abetting going on in the pews too.

For me the church is summed up in the Grand Inquisitor episode of the Brothers Karamazov in which Christ returns to discover the church has become a corrupt materialist controller of the flock, having discarded all spirituality and love/compassion for the cynical power politics of control and obfuscation. And regular folk let it happen.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing. Yes, the inactivity of family seems surprising, perhaps it reflects different times - people generally didn't complain or demand so much, children were not believed, there was more deference to authority, especially for religious folks dealing with the church. SBD post above pretty much nails that aspect of it. I went to a high school in the 70's, and we had a PE teacher who had strange habits of watching us boys shower and change. As far as I know there was nothing more happened. We regarded it as a bit of a joke, in fact we had a saying 'Bums to the ground, Mr Priednicks is around'. So different times.

After reading some of the Royal Commison I was horrified how often the coppers were involved in covering up and how police officers who wanted to investigate claims of abuse by priests were either transferred, promoted (and no longer involved) or threatened to be transferred to Bumheck West if they kept investigating. The issue of police ignoring abuse claims and covering up for priests hasn't been looked at enough and won't be because so much time has passed.
 
SBD Gonzalez said:
In defence of the regular folk, it’s clear that what the Catholic Church (and other churches and institutions and other centres of power) have been engaging in for decades is gaslighting on an industrial scale.

Even if an ordinary mum or dad had the nerve to stand up and call out what they believed was happening, the full, awesome weight of the incumbent power would be brought down on them.
Click to expand...
Yes, you're right, there was definitely a large power differential coming into play. In the end, that's what the church specialises in and has been perfecting for a couple of millennia. They are very good at it.

Evenso, my parents and close family friends were no shrinking violets - depression survivors, tossed out of homes, susso queues, war heroes, single parents, union activists, dallying in the black economy, hard and straight forward folk ... and still probably didn't do enough to protect their kids. In retrospect, I know.
 
Schneebly11 said:
The only Australian Saint is Mary MacKillop. Therefore, despite Abbott’s ramblings, she should be considered the greatest Catholic Australia has ever produced. She was also excommunicated for exposing a paedophile priest, whom the church shipped off to Ireland rather than report to the authorities.

It also takes about 100 years for the application for a saint to be “processed” if you want to call it that. So Pell’s sycophants will be long buried before he’s declared a saint.

Abbott’s speech was just politics. They were probably glad that Albo and the others didn’t attend as it gave them free rein to make it a campaign speech.
Click to expand...
Who takes notice of Abbott? Seriously he’s a heckstick of the highest order a social *
 
CD Xbow said:
Thanks for sharing. Yes, the inactivity of family seems surprising, perhaps it reflects different times - people generally didn't complain or demand so much, children were not believed, there was more deference to authority, especially for religious folks dealing with the church. SBD post above pretty much nails that aspect of it. I went to a high school in the 70's, and we had a PE teacher who had strange habits of watching us boys shower and change. As far as I know there was nothing more happened. We regarded it as a bit of a joke, in fact we had a saying 'Bums to the ground, Mr Priednicks is around'. So different times.

After reading some of the Royal Commison I was horrified how often the coppers were involved in covering up and how police officers who wanted to investigate claims of abuse by priests were either transferred, promoted (and no longer involved) or threatened to be transferred to Bum* West if they kept investigating. The issue of police ignoring abuse claims and covering up for priests hasn't been looked at enough and won't be because so much time has passed.
Click to expand...
At some point in time I’ll sue the Jacks - they’re next in the list and arguably just as complicit
 
SBD Gonzalez said:
In defence of the regular folk, it’s clear that what the Catholic Church (and other churches and institutions and other centres of power) have been engaging in for decades is gaslighting on an industrial scale.

Even if an ordinary mum or dad had the nerve to stand up and call out what they believed was happening, the full, awesome weight of the incumbent power would be brought down on them.
Click to expand...

My personal experience of how those who report child abuse allegations are treated within the church community, not the church leadership, doesn’t support this.

In the most prominent example a member of the church who reported abuse allegations by a priest against their own children was not given any community support. In fact she was basically driven out the church, called a “liar” and a “wannabe blackmailer” and the priest she was accusing was a “great man who’d never hurt a fly”.

The priest was later convicted and given several years in prison, and after release reoffended. After his second prison stint is now living in a church retirement home paid for by churchgoers through donations.

The parent was shamed out of the church and had no member give them any support, even after the priest’s conviction. In later years the community pretty much denies that episode ever occurred.

Now the Catholic forums are full of apologists for the crimes. It’s all “made up”, a “plot to destroy the church”, “accusers are liars”.

They’re beyond help.
 
CD Xbow said:
Successful legal action against police is pretty uncommon.
I can't help feel the cards are stacked against you, but I wish the best of luck pursuing it. I'd love to see some these abusers and enablers held to account.
Click to expand...
I’ve held one lot to account…it’s time to get the next lot
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Does anyone remember the name of a TV program many years ago when Pell appeared as a guest. I think it was Andrew Denton hosting but my memory could be wrong on that.
I don’t know if Pell had had a couple of sherries before the show but when he was asked about his time in Ballarat, he bizarrely fondly mentioned the joy of young boy’s bare bums at Ballarat swimming pool.
The interviewer was astonished and said “I beg your pardon?” and it was like Pell woke from a trance and remembered where he was.
Does anyone remember that?
 
martyparty said:
Does anyone remember the name of a TV program many years ago when Pell appeared as a guest. I think it was Andrew Denton hosting but my memory could be wrong on that.
I don’t know if Pell had had a couple of sherries before the show but when he was asked about his time in Ballarat, he bizarrely fondly mentioned the joy of young boy’s bare bums at Ballarat swimming pool.
The interviewer was astonished and said “I beg your pardon?” and it was like Pell woke from a trance and remembered where he was.
Does anyone remember that?
Click to expand...
Denton used to have a Program called "Enough Rope" (I think)
Not sure if that was it
 
CD Xbow said:
Thanks for sharing. Yes, the inactivity of family seems surprising, perhaps it reflects different times - people generally didn't complain or demand so much, children were not believed, there was more deference to authority, especially for religious folks dealing with the church. SBD post above pretty much nails that aspect of it. I went to a high school in the 70's, and we had a PE teacher who had strange habits of watching us boys shower and change. As far as I know there was nothing more happened. We regarded it as a bit of a joke, in fact we had a saying 'Bums to the ground, Mr Priednicks is around'. So different times.

After reading some of the Royal Commison I was horrified how often the coppers were involved in covering up and how police officers who wanted to investigate claims of abuse by priests were either transferred, promoted (and no longer involved) or threatened to be transferred to Bum* West if they kept investigating. The issue of police ignoring abuse claims and covering up for priests hasn't been looked at enough and won't be because so much time has passed.
Click to expand...
Police in kilmore helped priests so their kids could go to school at Assumption

The church concealed Father Terry Pidoto's life of crime: FULL STORY | Broken Rites Australia

www.brokenrites.org.au www.brokenrites.org.au
 
Osho said:
In the end, that's what the church specialises in and has been perfecting for a couple of millennia. They are very good at it.
Click to expand...
They have been doing it for at least 400 years. I have posted the history before - entire orders were abuse factories with royal protection.
 
Chief said:
They have been doing it for at least 400 years. I have posted the history before - entire orders were abuse factories with royal protection.
Click to expand...

Much further than that:



First mention of priestly child abuse - 60 CE.

First mention of church cover up of child abuse - 1051 CE.

Attempts to say it only happened within the last 50 years is a narrative being spun by anti Vatican II conservatives. They also try to say it only started when homosexuality started to become accepted and legalised around 50/60 years ago. It’s essentially gay bashing.
 
Schneebly11 said:
Much further than that:



First mention of priestly child abuse - 60 CE.

First mention of church cover up of child abuse - 1051 CE.

Attempts to say it only happened within the last 50 years is a narrative being spun by anti Vatican II conservatives. They also try to say it only started when homosexuality started to become accepted and legalised around 50/60 years ago. It’s essentially gay bashing.
Click to expand...

I think this text is abt the same events as your vid link (haven't watched all through yet)

An 11th-Century Scandal

Mark Twain said that history does not repeat itself, but it rhymes. The sexual abuse scandal that continues to echo throughout the church in America, as evidenced by the recent controversy over the decision to allow Cardinal Bernard Law to preside at one of the memorial Masses for Pope John Paul II
www.americamagazine.org www.americamagazine.org


Another record going back to 4th century is mentioned in here.

Your ref to Vatican II brought memories flooding back of Sunday lunches when cousin Peter, a De la selle brother, would lament the modern church with my progressive father. One would not in those days toss out a brother on his ear, but one could deny him the best cuts and dessert. I never liked the smell of the clergy, they were like aliens to me, creepy, before I ever knew the worst of it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top