General Bombers Talk Proposed North Melbourne move

[Jade]

An often quoted, but honestly highly controversial part of both the history of the Essendon and North Melbourne Football Clubs; the proposed merger between the then VFL Essendon side and VFA North Melbourne side is constantly mentioned as a potential reason for the supposed rivalry between the two clubs.

Admittedly, considering it occurred some fifty or more years before my birth, I have no first hand knowledge; only what I can gather from reports and historical information.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1921_VFA_season#Closure_of_the_East_Melbourne_Cricket_Ground

So, what are your thoughts/impressions from this event? Was it a diabolical plan by Essendon to steal North Melbourne's players? Or was it a cunning and devious plot by North to absorb Essendon and gain entry into the VFL?

Thoughts? Issues?

Yes, North fans are welcome, however please be mindful of where you are.

 

[Doss]

Yes, as above:

North fans, you're welcome to contribute here, as obviously it was an important period of history in the annals of both Essendon and North Melbourne.

But, you're on the Essendon board; so no trolling please.

The same applies to Essendon fans; it's a worthy exercise actually getting to the bottom of what exactly went on.

My suspicion is that the truth is, there was probably an element of both the above extremes, and that the reality was somewhere in the middle. No doubt the machinations taking place did involve some people being less than honest at times.

 

[222EB]

http://eprints.qut.edu.au/21096/

Info on our original VFL home ground

 

[Only Forwards]

Historically that is one point at which you screwed us, or at least it is a point at which our hate for you would have peaked. Being pushed to the brink of destruction cannot have been fun for the North people that faced it. But as was shown again in 2007, we just are not that easy to get rid of.

From the bastion of truth wikipedia:

On 30 June 1921, North told its players it would disband and try to gain entry to the VFL by the ‘back-door’. Essendon League Football Club had lost its playing ground at East Melbourne and had decided to acquire the North Melbourne Recreation Reserve as a new playing ground. North accepted their proposal in the idea that the clubs would amalgamate. All of North's players were urged to join the Essendon League Club to help facilitate the amalgamation. The amalgamation was foiled when some members of the VFA launched a successful legal challenge.[6] As a result the Essendon League Club moved instead to the Essendon Oval, replacing the ground's original occupants, Essendon Association.
North was now without a playing team and the Essendon Association Club was now without a ground, so as a matter of convenience the two clubs amalgamated so they could compete in the 1922 season. As it had after the merger with West Melbourne, North once again managed to avert its destruction.

This also created a situation where a significant North identity won a Premiership with your club in Syd Barker.

 

[Doss]

From the above excerpt, I wonder which VFA clubs opposed the merger? Sounds like the problem started there as much as anywhere.

 

[222EB]

After the 1921 season, the East Melbourne Cricket Ground was closed and demolished to expand the Flinders Street Railyard. Having played at the East Melbourne Cricket Ground from 1882 to 1921, and having won four VFA premierships (1891–1894) and four VFL premierships (1897, 1901, 1911 and 1912) whilst there,[8] Essendon was looking for a new home, and was offered grounds at the current Royal Melbourne Showgrounds, at Victoria Park, at Arden St, North Melbourne, and the Essendon Cricket Ground. The Essendon City Council, offered the (VFL) team the Essendon Cricket Ground, announcing that it would be prepared to spend over ₤12,000 on improvements, including a new grandstand, scoreboard and re-fencing of the oval.
The club's first preference was to move to North Melbourne[9] – a move which the North Melbourne Football Club (then in the VFA) saw as a grand opportunity to get into the VFL. Most of Essendon's members and players were from the North Melbourne area, and sportswriters believed that Essendon would have been taken over by or rebranded as North Melbourne within only a few years of the move.[10][11] However, the VFA, desperate for its own strategic reasons not to lose its use of the North Melbourne Cricket Ground, successfully appealed to the State Government to block Essendon's move to North Melbourne.[12] With its preferred option off the table, the club returned to Essendon, and the Essendon VFA club disbanded, with most of its players moving to North Melbourne.[13]

 

[222EB]

In November 1920, the state Railways Commission announced that the East Melbourne Cricket Ground was to be closed at the end of 1921 to allow for the Flinders Street Railyard to be expanded.[1] This meant that the Essendon (League) Football Club, which had played its home games at the venue since 1882, needed to find a new home ground. The club considered the North Melbourne Recreation Reserve and the Essendon Recreation Reserve, homes to the North Melbourne and Essendon (Association) Football Clubs respectively.[2] Although simple sentiment might suggest that Essendon (L.) would automatically favour the venue in its namesake town, the reality of the time was that the club also had strong ties to the North Melbourne area; the neighbouring suburbs of North Melbourne, West Melbourne and Kensington had been one of the most fruitful regions of Essendon's (L.) recruiting district, and a vast majority of its members resided in those three suburbs, not in Essendon town.[3] In late June 1921, the club announced that it would move to North Melbourne rather than Essendon. The higher gate available at the more centrally-located North Melbourne ground was a key contributing factor. Essendon-based members were angry that the club had not taken the opportunity to return to Essendon town.[2]
This move was seen as a strong opportunity for the town of North Melbourne to be represented in the League. It was widely believed – by sportswriters[4] and the North Melbourne Club committee – that a League club based in North Melbourne would not be able to retain the Essendon name and identity for more than a few years, as it would likely be taken over by or rebranded as a North Melbourne Club as soon as the North Melbourne-based members had a voting majority. As such, even though it meant the loss of its ground – and probably the loss of its team, at least in the short term – the North Melbourne committee welcomed Essendon's (L.) decision.[2] North Melbourne club president, Cr. Deveney, was quoted as saying "North Melbourne has for years been anxious to get into the League, and this is the only way".[3]
North Melbourne Football Club disbands[edit]

The North Melbourne committee formally resolved that it would seek to amalgamate with Essendon (L.) for the 1922 season; then, on 30 June, it suddenly disbanded as a senior club. The club opted to disband immediately, rather than play out the season, because it believed that the Association would have banished it from playing anyway when it became clear that it was trying to amalgamate with a League team; and that by disbanding immediately, rather than waiting to be banished, it gave its players the opportunity to request transfers to other clubs prior to the July 1 deadline – an opportunity taken by eighteen players. It was a bold step, however, as the club had not yet reached any sort of agreement with Essendon (L.) regarding an amalgamation; and although Essendon (L.) had reportedly made room for two North Melbourne club delegates on its committee,[5] it had not reached any internal decision on the matter of amalgamation – previous decisions having been focused solely on the move to the North Melbourne ground, not on any relationship with the North Melbourne club.[6] The North Melbourne committee's swift response precluded any meeting with club members, who were naturally angry that they had not been consulted, and that the club was not going to play all the games that they had expected when they paid for their memberships.[5]
True to North Melbourne's expectations, the Association disqualified it for its actions by a majority of 13–2, although by this stage the club was already defunct. The Association approved all of the transfers of North Melbourne players to other Association clubs; it rejected transfer permits to League clubs, but those players were still free to transfer since the League did not recognise Association permits.[4]
Association protest[edit]

Strategically, the Association did not want to see a League club occupying the North Melbourne ground. Since the breakaway of the League in 1897, the Association had been trying, mostly unsuccessfully, to establish and maintain a presence in inner city Melbourne, where the potential for gate takings was higher. It had lost all of its most central clubs in the original breakaway of the League, it had lost its next most central club, Richmond, in 1908, and its attempts to establish new central teams had been failures. North Melbourne was the most central club remaining, and the Association was determined not to lose it.[7]
It was on these grounds that the Association protested to Mr Oman, the state Minister for Lands, requesting that he veto Essendon's (L.) move to North Melbourne; the ground was owned by the Melbourne City Council, so the Minister for Lands had the final say on its use. On 11 August, Mr Oman upheld the Association's protest, and refused Essendon (L.) permission to use the North Melbourne ground.[7] A deputation of residents from North Melbourne and North Melbourne club members protested, but the State Cabinet rejected the protest and upheld Mr Oman's decision on 3 October.[8] This left North Melbourne without a senior club, Essendon (L.) without a home venue for 1922, and the future of the Essendon (A.) Club at risk as Essendon (L.) now seemed likely to move to the Essendon Recreation Reserve.
Resolution[edit]

Within two weeks of the Minister's decision being upheld, Essendon (L.) had reached an agreement with the Essendon council to play at the Essendon Recreation Reserve, initially signing a lease for the following five winters. The Essendon council had been campaigning for the League team to move to Essendon throughout the year, and had committed to spending £12,000 to re-fence the venue and build a new grandstand.[9]
The Essendon (A.) club had been strongly opposed to Essendon (L.) shifting to the Essendon Recreation Reserve, as this would clearly make its position as a senior club untenable.[8] Once this outcome was realised, the club disbanded in late December, bringing an end to its 22-year existence.[10]
Although North Melbourne had been disqualified from the Association after announcing its intention to amalgamate with Essendon (L.), it was considered a certainty that a North Melbourne club would be re-admitted for 1922, since the Association had fought so hard through the year to keep its most central club. In December, North Melbourne was formally re-admitted, with the condition that an entirely new committee be appointed – the same condition that was placed on the club under similar circumstances in 1908.[10] North Melbourne players who had transferred to League clubs without an Association permit remained disqualified from the Association, preventing them from returning to the reformed club – including club legends Syd Barker, Sr. and Charlie Hardy, who were both now at Essendon (L.). Although the club ceased to exist for almost six months and was formed with an entirely new committee, the re-admitted North Melbourne club is historically considered a continuation of the club which disbanded.

 

[222EB]

The Argus July 1st 1921

The '"Passing" of Essendon.
By OLD BOY.
The decision of the Essendon committee to transfer to North Melbourne when their tenancy of the East Melbourne ground terminated has aroused much comment.
The residents of Essendon are particularly upset at the failure of the old club to return to its own district.
It is many a long day since the late Mr. A. McCracken and his associates settled the Essendon club at East Melbourne, and it has always been understood that a promise was given in those far-off days that Essendon would remain loyal to East Melbourne.
Mr. McCracken was too good an Essendon resident to have done anything to injure the name or reputation of the club in which he took so great an interest, and I feel sure that had he been alive he would have never consented to a move which can have only one ending
- the ultimate disappearance of the name of Essendon from the list of League clubs.
It is an open boast at North Melbourne, "We will amalgamate with Essendon, and if not, we'll absorb them in a couple of years."
There is a section of the North Melbourne committee which has supported the Essendon proposals, and the result us that the North Melbourne club after holding the North Melbourne ground for 56 years is to be sacrificed to make room for a club which already has a ground in the district which bears its name.
North Melbourne has long desired to be in the League ever since the day in 1897 when the League clubs broke away from the association and left Footscray Williamstown, Port Melbourne- North Melbourne- and Richmond to carry on the -Association.
Richmond has been readmitted to the fold and now North Melbourne is to gain its ambition. It may have to trade under the name of Essendon for a while but it will be North Melbourne all the same Essendon's long and successful career will soon be swamped in the merging of the two clubs, and its identity will be lost.
The Essendon residents, headed by Mr E H Kinnear and Mr A.F. Showers did all in their power to keep Essendon at Essendon, but without avail and the feeling at Essendon is the more bitter because early in the year, when the Essendon committee was assailed by a reform party, the Essendon residential Vote gave solid support for the men then in office and kept them there.
All the romance of Essendon has been sacrificed for the
prospective gain of extra gate money at North Melbourne

 

[Doss]

It does appear to be a very unfortunate collusion of circumstances.

Essendon being forced to move from East Melbourne- no one's fault per se, they just needed to expand the Jolimont Yards.

North wanting entry to the VFL- yeah, well who can blame them? It was a more lucrative and higher profile competition than the VFA afterall. They weren't alone either- Footscray, Prahran and Hawthorn also wanted entry around that time.

I think a few questions do need to be posed:

a) if we didn't really intend on moving to Arden Street, why did we announce our intention to do so in June 1921? At the very least, before officially agreeing to the amalgamation and getting clearance from the appropriate channels, we probably should have been more careful about saying such things.

b) were North too swift in disbanding on June 30, 1921? Considering that Essendon had not 'officially' agreed to an amalgamation, I would say yes. As above, that doesn't change the fact that Essendon probably shouldn't have promised something it ultimately couldn't deliver on.

c) were North very much screwed over by the VFA's ruling that players who had transferred to VFL clubs could not return to North in 1922? Yes, something shocking.

c) were Essendon and North Melbourne both ultimately little more than pawns in a much bigger power struggle? I would say yes. Obviously the idea of the VFA losing their last remaining inner Melbourne club was unpalatable to them, and they would both fight tooth and nail to protect that, and treat any transgressor (in this case, North) with alarming harshness.

And ultimately, could either Essendon or North do much about Mr Oman's decision to veto the move? It seems to be a decision which was no doubt motivated in part by the intangibles associated with politics.


It's an interesting topic, I think.

 

[Blind Turn]

Yeah, it's an interesting read. Football politics seems to have always been a morbid distraction from the real entertainment. But, let's be honest, grudges are symptomatic of narrow-minded morons. And to hold a grudge about something that happened many decades before our births... well, it's pathological and only has a place on the HTB.

 

[fishardansin]

I knew Essendon was pure.

First club to really promote aboriginality.
First club to have a woman board member.
First club to turn professional and earning a profit even when on the bottom of the ladder. (2nd bottom, thanks Carlton)
Willing sacrificial lamb for the comp regarding league wide irresponsible use of supplements.

These claims by angry North supporters really ate away at me. I'm glad to know now that they just got a garbled message from a pickled and angry grandfather.

 

[MaddAdam]

I knew Essendon was pure.

First club to really promote aboriginality.
First club to have a woman board member.
First club to turn professional and earning a profit even when on the bottom of the ladder. (2nd bottom, thanks Carlton)
Willing sacrificial lamb for the comp regarding league wide irresponsible use of supplements.

These claims by angry North supporters really ate away at me. I'm glad to know now that they just got a garbled message from a pickled and angry grandfather.

I come in genuine peace and hope to add to the topic.

My understanding is that the real North - Essendon hate, at least on our side, is pretty much elemental. The proposed merger and 20s stuff is more a symptom than the cause.

When our clubs were forming, footy and society was far more like English sports than what we know now. The Essendon v North thing is better understood as a sort of melange between the (hideous) sectarianism of Rangers and Celtic, and more traditional "cross town rivalry" of a say Sheffield United v Wednesday, or Man City v Man U etc.

But at the end of the day, for all the religious element - and people shouldn't discount how pronounced sectarianism was in Australia right up to the 60s with Essendon as the Protestant club and North as the Catholic club - and the class element (North as industrial "workers" club down by the stinky creek, Essendon the managers and office men up on the hill) there's the unavoidable reality that we were NEXT to each other and especially in the sense that count in a day to day level, back in that time.

We shared a train line and tram lines. We worked together. Our schools (hugely important) were generally near and known to each other. We went OUR schools and you went to YOUR schools. We went to different churches. Our young people had very different "pre ordained" fates - yours went to uni more in reality more often than, more likely the kind of lower aspirational middle class jobs.

You have to remember society was a great deal smaller and less mobile back then. People very much lived in their own communities and their prejudices were ingrained.

As for "rivalry" there is no doubt there has always been one but they wax and wane. In the early days it was there and on both sides. But in the 70s Essendon experienced their greatest period of onfield, well, irrelevance while North for once were good. In that period the rivalries were Carlton vs Richmond and North vs Hawthorn, both of which played out kind of simeltanouesly through a series of epic finals and Grand Finals.

In the 1980s the great and ongoing Essendon vs Hawthorn rivalry was born, although that one has been kind of upstaged now by the Geelong vs Hawthorn one.

But there's no doubt, both onfield with the players and between supporters that the 90s was North vs Essendon. Matthew Lloyd said as much. And that was a great thing. They were two great teams and we played some great games. Its a shame we never did get a GF to "decide" it. There's no doubt that losing the 99 prelim burned in Sheedy and the players soul and 2000 and the accompanying debacle in the QF was the result. Once you'd flogged us in that game you basically has the flag in your pocket.

Despite me giving Dan crap, there are some things I admire about Essendon and the way you've gone about it.

In the mid to late 90s Essendon were so far ahead of the pack in recognising and moving with the "corporatision" of footy it isn't funny. Essendon were the first to really ramp up the "business" organisation of a club - Eddie say that and copied you to a great extent when he took over Collingwood. Essendon made links with other international clubs like Man Un. Essendon were the first to recognise the power of the Internet. Essendon were also the first with "community programs" reaching out to various migrant groups and the the like in the north west suburbs, even if we've comprehensively overtaken you on that, largely because you took your eye off that one. Still, you did it first.

I also have to admire the way Essendon has never really gone the tank and relied on your big supporter base to "wear" a crap season in the way Collingwood has. When you've been s**t, you've been genuinely s**t. It happens.

On the indigenous stuff that fish posts, Essendon did a good job in jumping aboard that bandwagon and full credit to Sheedy for - in his typical style - grabbing all the credit, but some of the worst racist abuse I ever heard at the footy was from Essendon fans against Phil Krakeour when he was carving you up in a Friday night game. This is not to say Essendon fans were alone in being racist in that time, far from it.

Fast forward two years, Sheedy realises the little blackfellas can go and Essendon fans are waving indigenous flags as Michael Long kicks goals. Had the 1984 or 85 flag sides had any non white players, or if in fact any of Sheedy's sides in his first ten years at Essendon, while blokes like Maurice Rioli were around, this theory would have some credence. But still, there's no denying the brilliant and ground breaking work that Essendon and Long especially, and Sheedy, did. It probably should have been North but we simply didn't take that opportunity and you did. Again, it happens.

You obviously have your current issues but I have no doubt Hird undertook that program because he genuinely believed others were at it too. They probably are/were to an extent. No point in going over it anymore but it was at the end of the day about winning flags. That's what footy is about.

Societal confections like footy are about people playing roles. To go back to the Rangers v Celtic thing, it always shits me how Celtic play the victim despite being one of the biggest and richest clubs in world soccer. But that is their identity, their role.

In our league, North's identity has always been kind of malleable. That's a product of the perpetual desperation we find ourselves in. We're kind of like a chameleon: when we need to be we're a big flash club that gets all the interstate stars like in the 70s. In the late 80s were were the crazy invesntor innovators with Friday nights. In the 90s when the master motivator (ever heard the story of how he got the players going for the 96 GF?) Pagan worked it out were were the poor but didn't care blue and white Shinboners from down the stinky creek who bashed the poonce Hird and his baby Bomber mates. Now we're a semi hipster boutique club that has a Sudanese bloke and a classroom and forgioes gambling and rides a fixie to games.

But Essendon's great luxury is that you don't have to do that. You're the big rich club and you know it and you don't care. I always thought the "We're Carlton, * the rest" thing risible. Carlton is essentially a poor club in its roots, but one with lots of suppport. Heads to Collingwood's tails.

Essendon are the real "We're Essendon, * the rest" mob. Melbourne have to much "decorum" for that but stuff them. And I'm glad to see it that for real Essendon supporters, like the OP, that riduculous sense of entitlement hasn't wavered even in the teeth of the current gale. And nor should it. It is who you are.

Don't go changing. We like you the way you are. Call us peasants, make dated jokes about our facilities, all that. We thrive on it.

It makes beating you all the more fun.

 

[Jade]

I come in genuine peace and hope to add to the topic.

Doss, pre-emptive card please

As for "rivalry" there is no doubt there has always been one but they wax and wane. In the early days it was there and on both sides. But in the 70s Essendon experienced their greatest period of onfield, well, irrelevance while North for once were good. In that period the rivalries were Carlton vs Richmond and North vs Hawthorn, both of which played out kind of simeltanouesly through a series of epic finals and Grand Finals.

I'm well into my thirties, and believe me, prior to getting on BigFooty there was NO rivalry with North in my eyes. Just another side.

In the 1980s the great and ongoing Essendon vs Hawthorn rivalry was born, although that one has been kind of upstaged now by the Geelong vs Hawthorn one.

Essendon and Hawthorn played in three straight GFs; and their is genuine feeling on both sides. It's a 'dormant' rivalry - barring significant ASADA penalties, their is a reasonable chance that both sides will be very good this year - think you may see it re-emerge.

But there's no doubt, both onfield with the players and between supporters that the 90s was North vs Essendon. Matthew Lloyd said as much. And that was a great thing. They were two great teams and we played some great games. Its a shame we never did get a GF to "decide" it. There's no doubt that losing the 99 prelim burned in Sheedy and the players soul and 2000 and the accompanying debacle in the QF was the result. Once you'd flogged us in that game you basically has the flag in your pocket.

I know how this is going to sound, but it is the truth (in my eyes). There was no rivalry between the two in the late nineties. Once Essendon became the 'best' side in the league, they flogged North in every meaningful game.

In the mid to late 90s Essendon were so far ahead of the pack in recognising and moving with the "corporatision" of footy it isn't funny. Essendon were the first to really ramp up the "business" organisation of a club - Eddie say that and copied you to a great extent when he took over Collingwood. Essendon made links with other international clubs like Man Un. Essendon were the first to recognise the power of the Internet. Essendon were also the first with "community programs" reaching out to various migrant groups and the the like in the north west suburbs, even if we've comprehensively overtaken you on that, largely because you took your eye off that one. Still, you did it first.

Really? You might have to clarify that; Essendon seem to still be the league leader in community programs.

 

[MaddAdam]

Doss,
Really? You might have to clarify that; Essendon seem to still be the league leader in community programs.

Nah, been well overtaken by North in that regard, as you'd hope given we are pinning so much on it. You just need to look at the awards and attention showered on The Huddle.

Anyway, this isn't a general pissing contest, its about a kind of particular theme.

As for no 90s rivalry, you might want to have a word to Lloydy:

HATE is a strong word, one that Kevin Sheedy didn't like using, but the Essendon Football Club despises North Melbourne. If you ever asked Kangaroo greats Glenn Archer or Wayne Carey who they loved beating most, the automatic reply would be Essendon.

The feeling was mutual. In my time as a player, North looked at Essendon as the boys with a silver spoon in their mouths. We saw the Roos as a smug and arrogant bunch of blokes who exerted their dominance on the competition through physical and verbal intimidation. From the mid-1990s to 2001, it was on for young and old, but, as spiteful as that all sounds, North Melbourne was the team we respected most.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-roo-the-day-20120811-241lp.html#ixzz2qJme7L7f

 

[Jade]

Nah, been well overtaken by North in that regard, as you'd hope given we are pinning so much on it. You just need to look at the awards and attention showered on The Huddle.

The Long Walk, partnership with the APC, Dreamtime at the 'G, gloBall, Bright Futures, EDFL partnership......

As for no 90s rivalry, you might want to have a word to Lloydy

So a former Essendon player, now media commentator wrote an article about North before a game....... wow.

James Hird hates Hawthorn above all others, Paddy Ryder claimed he wanted to beat Collingwood more than any other.....

Here's an article talking of the rivalry between Carlton and Essendon:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...eeped-in-history/story-fni5f5nx-1226658947062

Nice one about Hawthorn and Essendon:

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2013-07-25/the-rivalry-hawthorn-and-Essendon

....................

I don't know how else to say it, and I certainly know that Doss won't be overly pleased; but after exposure to BigFooty, North Melbourne almost literally sickens me.

Where I hate Carlton with an almost murderous rage, respect and fear Hawthorn, and embrace Collingwood as fellow league leaders, I feel a kind of disgust towards North. They are in my opinion, leeches that rely heavily on the rest of the league to exist.

I can't be bothered digging up the quote, but recently, the owner of the Patriots was questioned on how he feels about equalisation in the NFL. His response (paraphrased of course) was that they needed to play somebody every week.

This is North Melbourne. You exist because we can't play Carlton, Hawthorn, Richmond and Collingwood every week. You are interchangeable, replaceable and weak. Like all clubs, you will go up and down the ladder, might even win a flag every so often, but there is no SUBSTANCE to you. Nothing 'real'. Your existence is owed solely to the idea that the true clubs, the ones that really matter, need to have an opponent on Saturday.

You don't have the uniqueness of Geelong, or the utter tribalism of Richmond. You don't even have the storied history of an utterly pathetic Melbourne Football Club.

You are, in every sense, very much team X. A head office sponsored collection of men in a jumper. The only thing you have going for you is that you've existed longer than most people's lifetime. That's it. You are here because you always have been, and nostalgia prevents any truly significant push to have you replaced.

You might think this is because you are small. It's not. Port are small, and yet I respect that club and what it stands for.

More of Fitzroy currently exists, more substance and meaning than has ever existed at North Melbourne.

You are effectively worthless. If you are tore Melbourne out of the league and replaced them, there would be a hole, something missing. We could replace North for the 2015 season and barely a ripple would be felt in the grand scheme of the game.

 

[MaddAdam]

I've said my piece in peace.

 

[Doss]

There was definitely a rivalry in the 1990s, as you would expect of any two clubs who were, more often than not, at the pointy end of the ladder at the same time.

Anyway, we're getting off topic. This is the History sub-board afterall, so it would seem much more appropriate that we limit the scope of discussion to the events of yesteryear.

I think MaddAdam does make a good point in regards to sectarian differences playing a key part. It's probably hard to relate to this now, as, happily, in Australia at least, the Catholic v Protestant divide is no longer of huge significance in Australian society. But it once was- it divided families, probably cut short the career of some pretty handy cricketers (O'Rielly and Fingleton), and also divided entire clubs and suburbs.

 

[Jade]

There was definitely a rivalry in the 1990s, as you would expect of any two clubs who were, more often than not, at the pointy end of the ladder at the same time.

Anyway, we're getting off topic. This is the History sub-board afterall, so it would seem much more appropriate that we limit the scope of discussion to the events of yesteryear.

I think MaddAdam does make a good point in regards to sectarian differences playing a key part. It's probably hard to relate to this now, as, happily, in Australia at least, the Catholic v Protestant divide is no longer of huge significance in Australian society. But it once was- it divided families, probably cut short the career of some pretty handy cricketers (O'Rielly and Fingleton), and also divided entire clubs and suburbs.

It's an interesting view, I'm not remotely old enough to have experienced it first hand, so it's a bit of a foreign concept. I can say that after having visited Belfast, not everyone there can say the same.....

 

[Jade]

Hmmmm.....

First time I've had a really good look at the issue.

Gotta say, by the looks of it, the North Melbourne FC really arsed up by disbanding without a formal agreement.

Seen quite a few North supporters on here run out the 'Essendon tried to destroy us' line - it appears the reality is quite the opposite. I dare say if Mr Oman had not vetoed the proposed move, North Melbourne would now be one of the most successful and powerful clubs in the league, and Essendon Football Club may very well be non-existent.

The North Melbourne membership attempted to dispute the verdict! They wanted the club there.....

 

[Andronicus]

I've said my piece in peace.

Quoted this post because it was shorter, but your long post has a lot of good stuff in it.

Strangely, I agree with much of what you said, but also with Jade with his thoughts on not seeing a rivalry pre BF days.

North fans really do seem to have held on to lots of the early day rivalry, whereas Essendon fans seem to ave moved on. I'm sure there have been periods in the past where all clubs have had a more heated rivalry, but that seems to fade for some, and hold strong for others.

I used to really like North as a club. Had respect for the working class nature, and the passion of some of the fans. Andrew Swallow is one of my favourite players in the league, and one of the guys I'd most like to see play in the red and black. The BF fans though, in many ways sicken me. I know there are people like that form all fans, but the way so many North fans seem to hate Essendon more than they support their own club, and the game for that matter is kind of worrying. People that love the game have hated this year and the problems it has thrown up for our club. Some North fans however seem to see it as the highlight of their football lives so far. Sadly, this is true of other clubs as well, but none more than NM.

It's sad, but this part of our history seems to offer more to some that onfield success for the team they support.

 

[bomberman500]

The Long Walk, partnership with the APC, Dreamtime at the 'G, gloBall, Bright Futures, EDFL partnership......



So a former Essendon player, now media commentator wrote an article about North before a game....... wow.

James Hird hates Hawthorn above all others, Paddy Ryder claimed he wanted to beat Collingwood more than any other.....

Here's an article talking of the rivalry between Carlton and Essendon:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...eeped-in-history/story-fni5f5nx-1226658947062

Nice one about Hawthorn and Essendon:

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2013-07-25/the-rivalry-hawthorn-and-Essendon

....................

I don't know how else to say it, and I certainly know that Doss won't be overly pleased; but after exposure to BigFooty, North Melbourne almost literally sickens me.

Where I hate Carlton with an almost murderous rage, respect and fear Hawthorn, and embrace Collingwood as fellow league leaders, I feel a kind of disgust towards North. They are in my opinion, leeches that rely heavily on the rest of the league to exist.

I can't be bothered digging up the quote, but recently, the owner of the Patriots was questioned on how he feels about equalisation in the NFL. His response (paraphrased of course) was that they needed to play somebody every week.

This is North Melbourne. You exist because we can't play Carlton, Hawthorn, Richmond and Collingwood every week. You are interchangeable, replaceable and weak. Like all clubs, you will go up and down the ladder, might even win a flag every so often, but there is no SUBSTANCE to you. Nothing 'real'. Your existence is owed solely to the idea that the true clubs, the ones that really matter, need to have an opponent on Saturday.

You don't have the uniqueness of Geelong, or the utter tribalism of Richmond. You don't even have the storied history of an utterly pathetic Melbourne Football Club.

You are, in every sense, very much team X. A head office sponsored collection of men in a jumper. The only thing you have going for you is that you've existed longer than most people's lifetime. That's it. You are here because you always have been, and nostalgia prevents any truly significant push to have you replaced.

You might think this is because you are small. It's not. Port are small, and yet I respect that club and what it stands for.

More of Fitzroy currently exists, more substance and meaning than has ever existed at North Melbourne.

You are effectively worthless. If you are tore Melbourne out of the league and replaced them, there would be a hole, something missing. We could replace North for the 2015 season and barely a ripple would be felt in the grand scheme of the game.

Pretty hectic post...
Personally in pretty nonchalant towards north.

They hate us because were the bigger brother in the backyard
We apparently hate them because theyre the little brother who doesn't know his place

I prefer to save my hatred for the pies, blues, tigers and hawks

 

[Jade]

Pretty hectic post...
Personally in pretty nonchalant towards north.

They hate us because were the bigger brother in the backyard
We apparently hate them because theyre the little brother who doesn't know his place

I prefer to save my hatred for the pies, blues, tigers and hawks

I'd call it a few things, but not hectic - was a fairly straightforward assessment; whether you agree with it or not.

And I hate only Carlton - no one else.

 

[yodellinhank]

Great stuff 222EB

 

[Dan]

Despite me giving Dan crap,

 

[Old Campaigner]

I don't get why this always turns into a dick waving contest over whether or not a rivalry exists.