No Oppo Supporters OPPOSITION OBSERVATION XXXIX
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Replacing a generational coach after a dynasty era is the most impossible task ever. Its why i was less concerned about the Yze hire and more interested in what happens afterward. Incredibly rare that they ever succeed
- Aug 13, 2017
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He did , just looked him.up for his net worth
Fmd he's bankrupt with 275 mill debt
Who is that
Neil Balme?
Garry Lyon?
or all the other Melbourne identities that he pissed off.
tigersnag
Club Legend
- Mar 29, 2022
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But just like Dr Edelsten did back in the day, he'll reappear in 5 years worth millions. Very creative accountants.
You are more interested in RFC squealing publicly than actually grilling the AFL over this issue. They have. Why don’t you ask the club?
And no, I’m giving you nothing to back it up.
You’ll just have to trust me.
Tiger_Of_Old
🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Humphrey B Bear
Tiger_Of_Old
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To be fair.
Kozi was a big loss for them
They both stripped their clubs back far too much. Got rid of too many experienced players too soon.
No leadership left or was left to few players remaining.
Tiger_Of_Old
🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
And the AFL reward them with PPs for s**t management.
- Apr 13, 2011
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Who'd the hawks chop? Mitchell and omeara?
You are more interested in RFC squealing publicly than actually grilling the AFL over this issue. They have. Why don’t you ask the club?
And no, I’m giving you nothing to back it up.
You’ll just have to trust me.
You have no proof at all they have done this. It's cute you are pretending you do, but you don't.
Doing it publicly is, by far, the best way to get a result. What is the actual point of pointing it out to them privately except avoiding a fine?
Know why they fine you for doing it publicly? Because they don't like the negative pressure it creates.
Ever heard the saying of a tree falling in the woods & no one around to hear it? That would be Richmond complaining to the AFL about the 3 years of ******* disgraceful treatment the supporters have copped due to bias and directed rule changes and officiating to bring the club to its knee's - which is where we are right now.
but anyway - i dont believe for a single second you have any worthwhile "intel" on it. Just making an argument for the sake of it. If the club is doing it privately, then they are a softer utensil then i ever dreamed we would be.
What North was handed last year was another nail in the coffin that holds my interest in the game.
Dont need to mention on this board where the majority of the nails are coming from.
Started before then, Hodge (Brisbane) Sam Mitchell (West Coast) Lewis (Melbourne) Smith (Geelong) they kept trading out players as you mentioned Tom Mitchell (Collingwood) O'Meara (Fremantle) & Gunston (Brisbane).
As well as those other older players who have all recently retired. They cut too deep and now paying the price of having no leadership, even though Kosi has been a bit of a bust for us so far, he mentioned part of the reason he wanted to leave was lack of senior experienced players like Lynch to help him improve and learn.
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This is totally wrong. I've taken the time to put together a breakdown of the Hawks since they "cut too deep"
2016
Traded Out: Bradley Hill / Received pick 23
Traded Out: Sam Mitchell 54, 72 / Received 52, 70, 88
Traded Out: Future First (Pick 7) , 23,36 / Received Pick 10 + 68 ( needed this pick to get Omeara)
Traded Out: Jordan Lewis, 57 +68 / Received 48 + 66
Traded In: Tom Mitchell + 57 / Traded Out: Pick 14 + 52
Traded In: Jaeger O'Meara / Traded Out: Pick 10 + 26
Picks they used in draft: 74 + 76
Result: So did they trade out their past for the future? Or did they trade out their past to "win now"?
Moved Hill, Mitchell & Lewis on for 1 x 2nd round & a series of 3rd,4th + 5th. There was no "Future" move in this. It was cap relief to get "win now" pieces Mitchell & O'Meara. To get Omeara they basically gave pick 7, 23,26 + 36. This is, essentially, a worse version of what we did for Hopper/Taranto.
2017
Traded In Jarred Impey + 67 / Traded Out: 34, 55, 61
Traded Out: Hodge + 44 / Received 43 + 75
Draft Picks Used: 45, 67, 71
Result: They traded out Hodge and replaced him with a more "win now" player in Impey. They again took no new kids in the first 2 rounds
2018
Traded in Jack Scrimshaw + a 4th rounder / Traded Out: 3rd Rounder
Traded in: Tom Scully / Traded Out 4th Rounder
Traded in: Chad Wingard + 3rd Rounder / Traded Out: Ryan Burton, 15,35 + 4th Rounder
Traded Out: Taylor Duryea / Traded In: 4th Rounder
Draft Picks Used: 52, 63
Result: They traded out 1 rotation player and all their prime picks for 3 "win now" pieces. They again took no new kids in the first 3 rounds
2019
Traded In: Sam Frost 42, 61 + 4th rounder / Traded Out: 2nd rounder + Pick 50
Traded In : John Patton / Traded Out 4th Rounder
Traded Out: Pick 30 / Traded In: 50, 72 + future 2nd rounder
Picks Used: 13(Will Day) , 29, 57
Result: Club continued to trade for "Win Now" pieces but at least went to the draft with 2 picks in the first 30. The first of which was Will Day, who is the best player right now of all the players mentioned so far.
2020
Release Isaac Smith( Free Agency )
Traded - mostly all pick swaps.
Draft Picks Used: 6 (Denver Grainger-Barras), 29, 35, 46
Result: First year they really committed to draft, but took the wrong player with pick 6.
2021
Released Tim OBrien
Traded Out: Ceglar + 4th Rounder / Received 3rd Rounder
Traded In: Max Lynch, 3rd +4th / Traded Out 2 x 3rd Rounders.
Draft Picks Used: 7 (Josh Ward), 23, 26 53
Result: Committed to draft, but only with mildly good picks
2022
Recruited: Karl Amon (Free Agency)
Traded Out: Tom Mitchell / Received: Cooper Mitchell, 41 + 50
Traded Out: Jaeger OMeara + 4th Rounder / Received: Meek + 2nd Rounder
Traded Out: 41, 50, 52 61 / Received 36 + 3rd Rounder
Traded Out: 27, second rounder + 3rd Rounder / Received Pick 18
Draft Picks Taken: 7(Cameron MacKenzie), 18, 37, 46, 51,
Result: Spent the entire offseason trading out all their 2016 "win now" pieces for incredibly mild returns. Tried to upgrade to get more "premium picks" but essentially over paid
2023
Traded Out: Tyler Brockman / For 44+63
Traded In: Ginnivan 39, Future 2nd +4th from Pies / Traded Out 33 + Future 2nd+3rd
Traded Out: Kosi / Recieved pick 49
Traded In: Gunston, 47, 61 + Future 2nd / Traded Out Brandon Ryan 39,54 + Future 4th
Traded Out: Future 2nd Rounder Traded in Chol
Traded In Massimo D'Ambrosio / Traded out: Future 4th +61
Draft Picks Taken: 5 (Nick Watson), 19, 46, 56
Result: A whole lot of moving around loose parts for loose picks essentially.
CONCLUSION:
over 8 seasons the where the Hawks apparently "traded out their soul", they only took the accumulative picks in the first 2 rounds
Picks in the Top 3 - Nil
Picks 4-10 - Four (5,6, 7,7)
Picks 10-15 - One (13)
Picks 15-20 - TWO (18, 19)
Picks 20-25 TWO (23,26)
Pick 26-30 - TWO (29, 29)
Picks 31-40 - TWO (35,36)
The Hawks woes had nothing to do with "trading out their soul" & everything about not realising they window was closed and trying to find new "Win Now" pieces. They failed to get even one pick that i consider KEY to rebuilding success - a top 3 pick.
Its the biggest myth out there the hawks are stuffed because they traded Lewis, Hodge & Mitchell. Their problems were making s**t movies like we did with Hopper & Taranto.
It had nothing to do with "gutting the club" to rebuild - it was about gutting the club to "win now" & avoid a real rebuild.
Essentially, as of right now - Richmond is on the EXACT same path. However, we have an opportunity to bypass a lot of that pain by allowing ourselves to be humbled to get that key Top 3 pick.
As i've said before, to truly rebuild, you need multiple picks in the top 5 over a short period, and preferably - in the top 3. hawks have had none and it shows on their list. You then want to "upgrade" your next next tier of picks as much as possible to increase your chances of striking gold (ie Will Day at 13) The Hawks despite 8 years of achieving nothing still have no elite talent to rebuild around. Several "useful bits" but no ELITE young talent, at all.
Richmond needs to look hard at the Hawks Vs the Eagles. Who would you rather be right now?
Harley Reid alone makes me prefer to be the Eagles.
So if you want to avoid reading all that, the Conclusion is....... You are completely and utterly wrong & have NFI why the Hawks suck right now. Had nothing to do with trading out a few 30+ year old blokes who were well passed their prime & everything to do with thinking they could re-tool with other teams bits and avoid a real rebuild.
We should basically trade our older blokes for anything that is considered fair. Top 3 picks change clubs. Nothing else
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That's a nice novel, appreciate the time it took you to write that but irrespective of the sequence of events that took place the truth is they have no leadership right now, there is or was no one left to pass down their knowledge of what drives success.
Our rebuild needs to be getting as many top picks as we can but at the same time trying to keep enough senior leaders at the club to ensure we don't lose that knowledge.
Who is the best leader at the Eagles right now?
Harley Reid
It has jack s**t to do with all that. It's all fluff. We didn't win our flags because Richo & Deledio - we won them because of Cotchin, Jack, Martin & Rance. THEY were the best leaders we had. They didn't "learn" it from anyone. They "earned it" by playing like leaders.
FFS did the Bulls win their championships because of the old guys they had on the list when they drafted Michael Jordan? Or was it Michael Jordan being ******* brilliant & the club be smart about getting the right pieces around him ie Pippen, Rodman, Horace Grant, Harper etc.
Did the Patriots win all thier Superbowls because of Brady? or the old guys they had on their list when they drafted Brady.
It's brilliant players who win you s**t - not old has-beens teaching them. No one taught Dusty to be Dusty. Get real.
People get way too romantic about "the old guard". Sure, they can help in lots of ways. But nothing helps more than tremendous, elite talent. Hawks have none of that for all the reasons stated above
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And its not a novel. Its a bullet point breakdown of the raw facts Vs regurgitated bullshit AFL media flogs like to bullshit to make "the ol boys" still feel important. Its 8 years of moves that when read in sequence, clearly show you why the hawks are ****ed. Its not a lack of "leadership", its a lack of elite young talent
If the Eagles want Baker, we should demand their 1st round pick this year & ask them "what else do you need from us to get there".
If it means trading Baker, our 2nd rounder + our future 2nd - take it.
If we could go into this draft with Pick 2 & 3 - that is a massive game changer. If we hit, we could get Dustin & Cotchin in one shot. Or Riewoldt & Kosi. Or Goddard & Ball etc.
Then... you go about trading more older players plus your remaining picks to get back into the 2nd round etc.
The rookie draft is legit more fruitful than 40-70 in the ND
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Elliot Yeo
It's quite well known over here that Yeo has taken Reid under his wing.
Having a real red-hot crack: Yeo
After a terrible run with injuries in previous years, Elliot Yeo is embracing his time on field with his teammates
You might think senior leadership is all fluff, but really, it's not. It's just as important as getting your draft picks right.
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- Oct 14, 2011
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Derwayne reckons 4:30pm grand final close to getting locked in soon as this year
They won’t stop till there’s nothing left of the game
They won’t stop till there’s nothing left of the game
Yeah, Richmond are 16th & Geelong are undefeated OfCourse he would think it's the best start to a season ever. Salty Geelong campaigner.
