NOW to sometime later in the year (maybe) - Talk about anything

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A bit of a quieter weekend in footy, but still some results that no one saw coming.

  • South Croydon knock of reigning premiers Rowville, their best win in a while.
  • Prem div relegation clearly down to Berwick and Norwood both 0-5 and horrible percentages. Perhaps a little bit of forward thinking with the fixture here with the 2 teams to play against each other in rounds 9 & 18
  • Park Orchards firm as Div 1 premiership favourites with a great win against Beaconsfield. Now sit 2 games clear on top.
  • Almost over for Wantirna South in Div 1 losing to North Ringwood and now sitting 2 games clear on the bottom. A win against Mooroolbark in 2 weeks is a non negotiable to keep any hope alive.
  • Boronia lose to Croydon!!! I dont think anyone saw this coming.
  • East Burwood win against The Basin and have some relegation breathing space.
  • Heathmont have fallen off a cliff after their grand final loss last year. 1-5 and the worst % in the division.
  • Upper Gully huge winners against Oakleigh keeping their finals hopes alive.
  • Surrey Park 149 point winners against Silvan, the biggest senior win in the league this weekend.
  • Whitehorse shoot to the top of the ladder with a big win against Nunawading.
  • The Div 4 top 4 is done with a big gap between them and the bottom 3 teams. But the actual premiership race between the top 4 is on with little seperating the teams.
 
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eflreceiver said:
At the Basin in the Reserves the umpire got cleaned up by a player. EB trainers straight out to him. Badly winded, I’m sure his remuneration made home feel better.
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He was ok Receiver and well looked after by both clubs. Kudos to them both for their efforts.

Wasn't a bad game at Batterham yesterday and I enjoyed watching it. Thought The Basin were home at 3/4 time but were overrun by East Burwood. Was good to go and watch a competitive game of community football.

For a team that haven't won a game they aren't that bad. Competitive and I think will win a few. Saw Heathmont a few weeks ago and they were terrible.

As for the umpiring in the seniors. It was terrible. Too far away on many occasions and many frees missed for both sides. Thought The Basin were hard done by a couple of times with some obvious frees missed at crucial stages. Umpiring is struggling everywhere but from my observations the standard in Eastern FNL is as bad as anywhere I have watched in recent times (and I get to a lot of competitions).
 
localfootyguru said:
As for the umpiring in the seniors. It was terrible. Too far away on many occasions and many frees missed for both sides. Thought The Basin were hard done by a couple of times with some obvious frees missed at crucial stages. Umpiring is struggling everywhere but from my observations the standard in Eastern FNL is as bad as anywhere I have watched in recent times (and I get to a lot of competitions).
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From what I’ve been told the standard is appalling across the board. It’s not their fault, many of these umpires’ experience and ability probably warrants junior footy but they’re doing seniors.

It won’t change until there are better numbers in the umpiring ranks.
 
Watching the stream I thought the umpiring was consistent. They were always out of position and making bad calls but they were consistent in their calling. I thought the Basin had the win as well. The Rams didn't score until the 12-minute mark of the final term. Then the stream died during a power glitch. I then got a message the Rams won and thought they were taking the P155. A final term of 5.5 to 1 point is very telling from an EB point of view and I can't blame umpiring on the score differential. It has always been a tough place to play for any team. I am happy to get the four points.

I thought the worst when I saw that old umpire holding his chest. Well done by all. On Trainers, at another EFNL game. A spectator had a heart attack and hit the ground with his head. All trainers assisted and he was taken away by Ambulance.
 
The number of players across all divisions going away for holidays during the football season seems to be the new norm. I wouldn't tolerate it appears to be the way now. Times have changed.
 
eflreceiver said:
Watching the stream I thought the umpiring was consistent. They were always out of position and making bad calls but they were consistent in their calling. I thought the Basin had the win as well. The Rams didn't score until the 12-minute mark of the final term. Then the stream died during a power glitch. I then got a message the Rams won and thought they were taking the P155. A final term of 5.5 to 1 point is very telling from an EB point of view and I can't blame umpiring on the score differential. It has always been a tough place to play for any team. I am happy to get the four points.

I thought the worst when I saw that old umpire holding his chest. Well done by all. On Trainers, at another EFNL game. A spectator had a heart attack and hit the ground with his head. All trainers assisted and he was taken away by Ambulance.
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A good summary Receiver and I like your comment about the umpiring. It was consistently bad and I thought as a neutral observer The Basin copped the wrong end of the stick. In general the standard of umpiring is terrible across the league and it continues to go backwards. Was good to see both clubs in the rooms post game being social.

I heard from someone the other day there is little focus on umpiring at lower levels in the league and the numbers are not good with the average age of umpires well over 50. Recruitment and retention is a common issue amongst all umpiring groups along with having quality coaching as the money and time involved along with never being right turns many good potential coaches away from being involved.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
From what I’ve been told the standard is appalling across the board. It’s not their fault, many of these umpires’ experience and ability probably warrants junior footy but they’re doing seniors.

It won’t change until there are better numbers in the umpiring ranks.
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It is appalling from what I saw yesterday Bunk. The guys umpiring were not up to it and it impacted on the contest.

I have watched not a lot of Eastern footy this year and from what I have seen the standard is deplorable. Where is the accountability on the league and coaching staff on where umpiring is heading. Seems like they have been far more focused on empire building and including clubs such as Beaconsfield and Berwick who have given nothing to the league. The league even has a full time staff member overseeing umpiring and therefore in a much better place than most of their counterparts.

I know umpiring is challenging for many reasons but surely there needs to be more focus on the standard, coaching and developing an environment that people want to be part of. It appears the league is going backwards rapidly in this area.
 
eflreceiver said:
Watching the stream I thought the umpiring was consistent. They were always out of position and making bad calls but they were consistent in their calling. I thought the Basin had the win as well. The Rams didn't score until the 12-minute mark of the final term. Then the stream died during a power glitch. I then got a message the Rams won and thought they were taking the P155. A final term of 5.5 to 1 point is very telling from an EB point of view and I can't blame umpiring on the score differential. It has always been a tough place to play for any team. I am happy to get the four points.

I thought the worst when I saw that old umpire holding his chest. Well done by all. On Trainers, at another EFNL game. A spectator had a heart attack and hit the ground with his head. All trainers assisted and he was taken away by Ambulance.
Click to expand...

localfootyguru said:
A good summary Receiver and I like your comment about the umpiring. It was consistently bad and I thought as a neutral observer The Basin copped the wrong end of the stick. In general the standard of umpiring is terrible across the league and it continues to go backwards. Was good to see both clubs in the rooms post game being social.

I heard from someone the other day there is little focus on umpiring at lower levels in the league and the numbers are not good with the average age of umpires well over 50. Recruitment and retention is a common issue amongst all umpiring groups along with having quality coaching as the money and time involved along with never being right turns many good potential coaches away from being involved.
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complaining about umpires is so lazy - you have players who.

fumble
can't kick on their opposite foot
miss set shots
give away downfield free kicks
train once a week
go to music festivals
don't communicate efficiently on the ground

but we want to focus on umpires......
 
eflreceiver said:
The number of players across all divisions going away for holidays during the football season seems to be the new norm. I wouldn't tolerate it appears to be the way now. Times have changed.
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You are spot on Receiver. It is everywhere. Lots of trips to the warmer climates of Europe are on the horizon for many players of clubs. Was talking to someone the other day from a country club who told me their 3 best players are heading off for 3 months for travel with their respective partners in the next few weeks.

Unfortunately commitment levels have changed significantly and we need to accept it. It wouldn't have been tolerated when I was a player and probably likely I would have spent the year in the twos or given the offer of an open clearance at a couple of places I was involved at.
 
The Kaiser Chief said:
complaining about umpires is so lazy - you have players who.

fumble
can't kick on their opposite foot
miss set shots
give away downfield free kicks
train once a week
go to music festivals
don't communicate efficiently on the ground

but we want to focus on umpires......
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Kaiser. this is the problem. When we want to have a constructive discussion about umpiring we get responses like yours.

Umpires need to be accountable and not go in to defensive mode. I won't tolerate negative abusive stuff towards umpiring but surely some positive constructive discussion on how things can improve is a good thing.

Players do make mistakes and so do umpires. I think we should all be working together to help and improve umpiring but unfortunately any conversation is seen as unconstructive and abusive which is not the case.
 

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localfootyguru said:
Kaiser. this is the problem. When we want to have a constructive discussion about umpiring we get responses like yours.

Umpires need to be accountable and not go in to defensive mode. I won't tolerate negative abusive stuff towards umpiring but surely some positive constructive discussion on how things can improve is a good thing.

Players do make mistakes and so do umpires. I think we should all be working together to help and improve umpiring but unfortunately any conversation is seen as unconstructive and abusive which is not the case.
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the entire footaball world bags umpires - this isn't a ENFL thing.
It is a very hard game to umpire and the press that all clubs play these days makes it even harder. There are so many people around the contest.
I have no doubt there are games that are poorly officiated. But players still decide the games.

I suggest people complaining put their hand up to umpire some junior games and see how difficult it actually is
 
Most games are recorded and whoever the umpires boss in the EFNL is can review the games. The issue is the umpire boss isn't paid enough to do that, we are talking a lot of games here. If clubs complain about the umpiring, especially the losing club it's viewed as sour grapes. The league hasn't got an extra umpire at games to give feedback during and after games as that's an extra cost. Players get feedback during and after a game. Umpires umpire poorly and there isn't an impact, well one I don't see. I can't blame the umpires if that's the workspace they are operating in. Like any workspace, you need to encourage good performances and work with those underperforming. Especially if you cannot replace them. Football at the community level has to do better and in saying that, no one wants to pay to get better. It is what it is and nothing will change unless the community and league attitude change.
 
eflreceiver said:
The number of players across all divisions going away for holidays during the football season seems to be the new norm. I wouldn't tolerate it appears to be the way now. Times have changed.
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Seems that the age group of 16-25yos have really changed post Covid and lockdowns. Happier to travel, work Saturdays or spend time outside of sports. It's no longer a commitment for the season but more so "if im available" for a large chunk!
 
FakeTaxi said:
Seems that the age group of 16-25yos have really changed post Covid and lockdowns. Happier to travel, work Saturdays or spend time outside of sports. It's no longer a commitment for the season but more so "if im available" for a large chunk!
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Mentioned this in the Outer East forum a while back, but it’s the reasons you mentioned (plus pressure to work on a Saturday due to cost of living) that could be the deathknell for a lot of clubs over the next 10-15 years.
Wouldn’t have thought there’d be many social activities (which for all intents and purposes footy is) that require close to 10 hours each week as a baseline commitment.
 
eflreceiver said:
Most games are recorded and whoever the umpires boss in the EFNL is can review the games. The issue is the umpire boss isn't paid enough to do that, we are talking a lot of games here. If clubs complain about the umpiring, especially the losing club it's viewed as sour grapes. The league hasn't got an extra umpire at games to give feedback during and after games as that's an extra cost. Players get feedback during and after a game. Umpires umpire poorly and there isn't an impact, well one I don't see. I can't blame the umpires if that's the workspace they are operating in. Like any workspace, you need to encourage good performances and work with those underperforming. Especially if you cannot replace them. Football at the community level has to do better and in saying that, no one wants to pay to get better. It is what it is and nothing will change unless the community and league attitude change.
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Maybe it's just me, but at almost every game I've been to this season I've observed blokes in EFLUA jackets with binoculars and pen & paper, and I assume they're observing the umpires.

For me the biggest challenge the EFNL faces is that it's hard to lift standards if you don't have umpires pushing up through the ranks, trying to earn a spot in the Seniors (like in a footy club with good depth). If you're forced to give games to people who don't train because you need them to field a full complement then it's a struggle to improve the general standard. Hopefully we can see the EFNL's focus on recruiting and developing young umpires pay off down the track, but there's no quick fix
 
There just isn’t the numbers.

I don’t think it will change in the slightest while we are paying them less than minimum wage to do a horribly difficult job and cop endless abuse for doing their best.

I’m amazed we have any at all.

Clearly the COVID break woke up many who’d been doing it almost out of habit… why the hell am I doing this? They haven’t come back.

I can only speak for myself but at a decent level of local footy… say the top few divisions of EFNL… I wouldn’t even consider umpiring senior games for less than $500 per week.

It’s a difficult job mentally and physically and an absolute pressure cooker.

$2k a month makes it a somewhat viable part time job.

Less for reserves games etc of course where the pressure isn’t as high.
 
The biggest issue with the EFNL umpires is the culture, I can say as a former umpire it was horrible. Whilst they’ve changed bosses a few times and Scotty is pretty good, the coach hasn’t changed for a long time and unless you’re identified as an AFL prospect, ie young and fit, they don’t want to know about you.

The premier umpires is very cliquey and very hard to break in to. So you can be a brilliant umpire but if you don’t fit their mould then it’s Div 3-4 for you and who can be bothered doing it year after year? Also even training, 5:30 is a bit early for a lot of people to train, good luck if you work in the city!

But there have even been some quality umpires who could have gone further but weren’t supported by the coach and would get 1-2 Premier game then be dropped for a few weeks with no explanation.

However if you hit some diversity targets then you can move up quickly. I know one umpire who met 3 diversity targets and was doing AFLW within 12 months of starting.
 
Navyblues09 said:
The biggest issue with the EFNL umpires is the culture, I can say as a former umpire it was horrible. Whilst they’ve changed bosses a few times and Scotty is pretty good, the coach hasn’t changed for a long time and unless you’re identified as an AFL prospect, ie young and fit, they don’t want to know about you.

The premier umpires is very cliquey and very hard to break in to. So you can be a brilliant umpire but if you don’t fit their mould then it’s Div 3-4 for you and who can be bothered doing it year after year? Also even training, 5:30 is a bit early for a lot of people to train, good luck if you work in the city!

But there have even been some quality umpires who could have gone further but weren’t supported by the coach and would get 1-2 Premier game then be dropped for a few weeks with no explanation.

However if you hit some diversity targets then you can move up quickly. I know one umpire who met 3 diversity targets and was doing AFLW within 12 months of starting.
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I mean this with sincerity - do the umpires need to be training twice a week? Bunk is on the money...........who is umpiring for $160 a weekend when there is nearly a 10 hour comittment required?
 
The discussion regarding umpires is the same year in and year out. Do they influence the outcome of a game? Most of the time I don't notice them, if I do then I would say yes they made the wrong decision but both teams are in the same boat. If the games close no matter what level we can always lay blame on an umpiring decision but geez some player decisions have me shaking my head. In the stream from Basin v EB, you could hear the Basin coach yelling "Kick it down the middle". The player went wide. That is not the umpires' fault. Swings and roundabouts, it is what it is.
 
The Kaiser Chief said:
I mean this with sincerity - do the umpires need to be training twice a week? Bunk is on the money...........who is umpiring for $160 a weekend when there is nearly a 10 hour comittment required?
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After watching the umpires in Div 2 this year, I would be surprised if many of them train at all. How many people actually attend the umpires training sessions?
 
Does anyone actually know what they get paid? I would happily Goal umpire on a saturday ( too unfit to umpire) if it was worth it. would happily go to a training session every now and then but after playing footy for 30 years i dont think its the hardest job in the world
 
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