Current Major incident at Bondi Junction

[Sir_Loin]

Saw a guard in the mall carpark for the first time ever. Trash smoking a few metres from the sliding doors, he didn't even move them on, let alone fine them. What's the point.

Probably need them for the insurance premium. I’m in Europe at the moment and the security guards they have at the local mall is 10x on what we have in Australia.

 

[BFew]

Interesting that a Canadian Court last year deemed an intel murder as an act of terrorism.

And that Deakin University associate professor Josh Roose hasn't yet ruled out a connection between the Incel movement and Joel Cauchi.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/why-the-incel-forums-flipped-on-bondi-stabbings-murderer/news-story/69f87cfc84f6ea91cbe108c227b35818

'Why the incel forums flipped on Bondi stabbings murderer
EXCLUSIVE
By NOAH YIM

6:21PM APRIL 22, 2024
...
Users of the most extreme incel forums were celebrating the Bondi stabbings as they realised most of the victims were women, but the tone shifted when it emerged that Joel Cauchi had worked as an escort.

Incels – or “involuntary celibates” – are men who belong to an extremist online subculture that, according to the Anti-Defamation League, “blames women and society for their lack of romantic success”.

While there was nothing that directly linked Cauchi to this extremist ideology, the fact he mostly targeted women and that his father told The Australian that Cauchi “wanted a girlfriend” has been picked up by incels and researchers as hints he could have subscribed to this kind of thinking.

Authorities have previously drawn attention to incel ideology as a dangerous one – for example, ASIO boss Mike Burgess in 2021 named it as one example of why the agency would rename “religiously motivated violent extremism” to “ideologically motivated violent extremism”.

Last year, a Canadian court for the first time deemed an incel-related murder in 2020 an act of terrorism.

NSW Police Commissioner Karen Webb said it was “obvious” Cauchi targeted women more than men, and it would be a “line of inquiry”, but she has not declared the stabbings an act of terrorism.

In the immediate aftermath of the Bondi Junction stabbing, incel forum users celebrated Cauchi once they learnt the majority of the victims were women.

“New incel saint,” one wrote. Others called him a “hero”.

Another commented on a news clip of a woman being interviewed, appearing to cry as she left the Westfield shopping centre, expressing glee at “seeing this bitch foid cry out of fear”.

“Foid” – short for “femoid” – is a derogatory incel term for woman, the Anti-Defamation League says, which combines the words “female” and “humanoid”.

Another thread complained that a female police officer was being celebrated for responding to and killing Cauchi.

“They hate you and they get off watching women kill you,” one person wrote.

The tone shifted after The Australian reported on Sunday that Cauchi had advertised himself as an escort.

Deakin University associate professor Josh Roose said incel forums of this kind were the “tip of the spear” in terms of ideology but elements of this ideology were increasingly popular among young men.

“There are different layers – there are men’s rights groups, there’s historically been pick-up artists, and now there are misogynistic influences like Andrew Tate,” he said.

He said incel ideology often overlapped with racism and anti-Semitism. This was exhibited in the forum discussions, where users drew attention to how Bondi has a relatively large Jewish population – in some instances expressing approval for the site of the mass murder – and drew attention on the Chinese international student who was one of the six dead.

“What we’re seeing is a strong set of ideological convergences across extremist groups,” he said. “A lot of incel ideology and ideas interact and intersect with far-right racism and anti-Semitism. We’re seeing anti-Semitism – which is also now arguably hitting elements of the left – because Jews are seen as pulling the strings behind the scenes.”

Dr Roose said investigation was required to determine whether Cauchi subscribed to incel ideology in any part and it could not yet be ruled out.'

 

[faible]

Interesting that a Canadian Court last year deemed an intel murder as an act of terrorism.

And that Deakin University associate professor Josh Roose hasn't yet ruled out a connection between the Incel movement and Joel Cauchi.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/why-the-incel-forums-flipped-on-bondi-stabbings-murderer/news-story/69f87cfc84f6ea91cbe108c227b35818

'Why the incel forums flipped on Bondi stabbings murderer
EXCLUSIVE
By NOAH YIM

6:21PM APRIL 22, 2024
...
Users of the most extreme incel forums were celebrating the Bondi stabbings as they realised most of the victims were women, but the tone shifted when it emerged that Joel Cauchi had worked as an escort.

Incels – or “involuntary celibates” – are men who belong to an extremist online subculture that, according to the Anti-Defamation League, “blames women and society for their lack of romantic success”.

While there was nothing that directly linked Cauchi to this extremist ideology, the fact he mostly targeted women and that his father told The Australian that Cauchi “wanted a girlfriend” has been picked up by incels and researchers as hints he could have subscribed to this kind of thinking.

Authorities have previously drawn attention to incel ideology as a dangerous one – for example, ASIO boss Mike Burgess in 2021 named it as one example of why the agency would rename “religiously motivated violent extremism” to “ideologically motivated violent extremism”.

Last year, a Canadian court for the first time deemed an incel-related murder in 2020 an act of terrorism.

NSW Police Commissioner Karen Webb said it was “obvious” Cauchi targeted women more than men, and it would be a “line of inquiry”, but she has not declared the stabbings an act of terrorism.

In the immediate aftermath of the Bondi Junction stabbing, incel forum users celebrated Cauchi once they learnt the majority of the victims were women.

“New incel saint,” one wrote. Others called him a “hero”.

Another commented on a news clip of a woman being interviewed, appearing to cry as she left the Westfield shopping centre, expressing glee at “seeing this bitch foid cry out of fear”.

“Foid” – short for “femoid” – is a derogatory incel term for woman, the Anti-Defamation League says, which combines the words “female” and “humanoid”.

Another thread complained that a female police officer was being celebrated for responding to and killing Cauchi.

“They hate you and they get off watching women kill you,” one person wrote.

The tone shifted after The Australian reported on Sunday that Cauchi had advertised himself as an escort.

Deakin University associate professor Josh Roose said incel forums of this kind were the “tip of the spear” in terms of ideology but elements of this ideology were increasingly popular among young men.

“There are different layers – there are men’s rights groups, there’s historically been pick-up artists, and now there are misogynistic influences like Andrew Tate,” he said.

He said incel ideology often overlapped with racism and anti-Semitism. This was exhibited in the forum discussions, where users drew attention to how Bondi has a relatively large Jewish population – in some instances expressing approval for the site of the mass murder – and drew attention on the Chinese international student who was one of the six dead.

“What we’re seeing is a strong set of ideological convergences across extremist groups,” he said. “A lot of incel ideology and ideas interact and intersect with far-right racism and anti-Semitism. We’re seeing anti-Semitism – which is also now arguably hitting elements of the left – because Jews are seen as pulling the strings behind the scenes.”

Dr Roose said investigation was required to determine whether Cauchi subscribed to incel ideology in any part and it could not yet be ruled out.'

I'd agree that 'incel' is probably enough to be a terror-related incident. Similar to any kind of white supremacist motivated murders.

They have spoken about the Church stabbing being labelled a terror incident so quickly being related to something the attacker said at the time, whereas here it seems like (thus far) they haven't spoken of anything linking him to the incel movement.

 

[the_interloper]

I'd agree that 'incel' is probably enough to be a terror-related incident. Similar to any kind of white supremacist motivated murders.

They have spoken about the Church stabbing being labelled a terror incident so quickly being related to something the attacker said at the time, whereas here it seems like (thus far) they haven't spoken of anything linking him to the incel movement.

I think it was you who said it earlier but they'll go through his phone/laptop etc and I'm sure find a lot of stuff connecting him to this, I'd be very surprised if they didn't.

 

[faible]

I think it was you who said it earlier but they'll go through his phone/laptop etc and I'm sure find a lot of stuff connecting him to this, I'd be very surprised if they didn't.

I assume they've already done all that, nothing has leaked or changed in how they're talking about it though so either they're playing their cards pretty closely or there's just nothing concrete.

Could be a 'simple' case of him targeting women without any incel related motive or pressure.

 

[Kurve]

I'd agree that 'incel' is probably enough to be a terror-related incident. Similar to any kind of white supremacist motivated murders.

They have spoken about the Church stabbing being labelled a terror incident so quickly being related to something the attacker said at the time, whereas here it seems like (thus far) they haven't spoken of anything linking him to the incel movement.

Extreme misogyny is an ideology, take a look at how Andrew Tate operates and profits from it. It's the model for it.

While Cauchi may not be found in incel groups, he couldn't have missed Tate.

 

[Bostonian]

Extreme misogyny is an ideology, take a look at how Andrew Tate operates and profits from it. It's the model for it.

While Cauchi may not be found in incel groups, he couldn't have missed Tate.

You're assuming his hatred was learned from the internet and not from personal experiences growing up.

One or both of these things could be true or false.

 

[Kurve]

You're assuming his hatred was learned from the internet and not from personal experiences growing up.

One or both of these things could be true or false.

I've already brought attention to his father's mindset.

 

[faible]

I've already brought attention to his father's mindset.

The comment about being desperate for a girlfriend or is there other stuff I've missed?

 

[Kurve]

The comment about being desperate for a girlfriend or is there other stuff I've missed?

That was his father's answer as to why Cauchi targeted women.

You don't see anything indicative of his mindset in that?

 

[faible]

That was his father's answer as to why Cauchi targeted women.

You don't see anything indicative of his mindset in that?

His father's mindset or the son's?

I'm not sure it's indicative of the father's mindset which I why I asked if there was something further.

 

[Kurve]

His father's mindset or the son's?

I'm not sure it's indicative of the father's mindset which I why I asked if there was something further.

I'm not sure if it may have played in either but it might be a clue.

Add insecurities, unstable living arrangements, depression or another mental health issue and fuel it, boom.

 

[Gralin]

Incels are a specific group but the entire manosphere is problematic and outside of that just in the wider community there is plenty of misogyny at play

people that wouldn't consider themselves holding any sort of extreme view or being pilled etc can be pretty openly aggressive to women and think nothing of it

lots of history with cops of all levels of this behaviour and I reckon they'd be the last group to quickly and correctly identify this stuff without a smoking gun of him posting on in incel board about how he's going to kill women

becaues 95% of the stuff that would point to it they'd just consider normal bloke stuff

 

[BFew]

Add insecurities, unstable living arrangements, depression or another mental health issue and fuel it, boom.

Joel Cauchi looked somewhat emaciated at Bondi Junction from the pics that have been in the media.

Whether this was from either or a combination of self-medication that suppressed his appetite, lack of sleep, or just malnourishment from being unable to care for himself in recent weeks and months, shouldn't be too hard to ascertain from the autopsy, toxicology report, and his interactions with people in his last month/weeks/days.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

That was his father's answer as to why Cauchi targeted women.

You don't see anything indicative of his mindset in that?

Actually I saw it as a Father looking for someone to pin it on rather than own who he created.

We still haven't had any Woman come forward and say he was an a-hole to them prior.

 

[Kurve]

Actually I saw it as a Father looking for someone to pin it on rather than own who he created.

Misplacing blame by assigning it to the woman is misogyny, is it not?

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Misplacing blame by assigning it to the woman is misogyny, is it not?

I believe so, yes, but does that confirm the Son was?

 

[Kurve]

I believe so, yes, but does that confirm the Son was?

No, I've suggested only that the father's response might be a clue as to his mindset but you did say this

someone to pin it on rather than own who he created.

 

[faible]

Actually I saw it as a Father looking for someone to pin it on rather than own who he created.

We still haven't had any Woman come forward and say he was an a-hole to them prior.

Do we know the parents 'created' a murderer?

Both parents seemed pretty broken up about it and not trying to place the blame anywhere else than on their son who'd just murdered 6 people.

 

[faible]

Misplacing blame by assigning it to the woman is misogyny, is it not?

I didn't read it as 'assigning blame' at all.

 

[Bostonian]

Do we know the parents 'created' a murderer?

Both parents seemed pretty broken up about it and not trying to place the blame anywhere else than on their son who'd just murdered 6 people.

Exactly.

The parents showed a lot of bravery to come out to the world and comment on such an horrific incident in public so soon after it happened.

Many people in their position would just stay inside their home and avoid the spotlight as much as they could.

They also showed remorse and utter sadness for the victims and their families.

Compare that to the families of the kids who stabbed my cousin to death and they had family members who thought it was something to laugh about.

 

[Kurve]

I didn't read it as 'assigning blame' at all.

Of course he did, if I'm not suggesting he thinks it's a legitimate reason and something he would do himself.

 

[faible]

Of course he did

Are we ignoring all the direct quotes where they clearly assigned blame to their son?

“He let himself down"

“I’m loving a monster."

"he’s a monster"

"How do you love a monster and give birth to him.”

"“I’m so sorry about what our son has done"

“We don’t know why he did what he did"

“It’s horrendous to see your own son do this"

And then that the father was directly asked about why his son had targeted women:

When asked why he thought his son had targeted women during the rampage

Mr Cauchi said he could understand why the NSW Police believe that was his motive.

“He wanted a girlfriend and he’s got no social skills and he was frustrated out of his brain,” he said.

So he's responded to a direct question, with speculation after repeatedly calling his son a monster and both parents blaming the son for his actions.

You're certainly suggesting something given you keep repeating it.

 

[Kurve]

Are we ignoring all the direct quotes where they clearly assigned blame to their son?









And then that the father was directly asked about why his son had targeted women:





So he's responded to a direct question, with speculation after repeatedly calling his son a monster and both parents blaming the son for his actions.

You're certainly suggesting something given you keep repeating it.

The father wasn't speculating, he answered directly and immediately.

You're also ignoring my previous comments.

 

[faible]

The father wasn't speculating, he answered directly and immediately.

You're also ignoring my previous comments.

'what was your schizophrenic son thinking as he engaged in mass murder targeting mostly women' is asking for speculation, unless we're claiming the father was involved then it by necessity is speculation.

Meanwhile, on multiple occasions, he directly blamed his son for his actions.

I don't see how you're making the leap to the father assigning blame to women here.