Jai Serong = Anti-vaxxer

[King Huskii]

You're spreading anti-vax tropes and misinformation.

If the nature of your work means you are more likely to spread a prevalent infectious disease - especially to vulnerable people - of course you should be required to be vaccinated. That wasn't even a new idea at the start of Covid.

But that's rehashing an old argument.

Nah it doesn't mean that at all. I wasn't working with vulnerable people. It was still policy for my work though like most people in West Australia. Compulsory vaccination or be deregistered. Sounds fair

This is not misinformation it's a fact. Go fact check if you want to be proven wrong

 

[faible]

So you have never heard of health complications from the vaccine? You must be so biased you have lost the plot.

Of course I have. They make up a very, very small percentage of the doses administered however, and are significantly lesser than the health complications from actually getting COVID unvaccinated.

So, try again.

 

[wgt]

I personally dont believe anyone who says this because the actual evidence of the number of people suffering vaccine related health issues is not that large, yet people who speak out against the vaccines always seem to know so many.

I know literally hundreds of people who have been vaccinated and not one to have anything more than aches and pains (I had some nasty ones on my 2nd dose).

People with underlying issues have been saved by vaccines. Look at the death rates before vaccines and the death rates now that the most vulnerable are highly vaccinated. Look at the hospitalisations of vaccinated people. Even the seriously ill.

But I guess your next point will be that governments around the world are lying. There isnt much you can discuss there.

I personally dont believe anyone who says this because the actual evidence of the number of people suffering vaccine related health issues is not that large, yet people who speak out against the vaccines always seem to know so many.

I know literally hundreds of people who have been vaccinated and not one to have anything more than aches and pains (I had some nasty ones on my 2nd dose).

People with underlying issues have been saved by vaccines. Look at the death rates before vaccines and the death rates now that the most vulnerable are highly vaccinated. Look at the hospitalisations of vaccinated people. Even the seriously ill.

But I guess your next point will be that governments around the world are lying. There isnt much you can discuss there.

i said 10 people, i wouldnt say that was many but its still fact. I remember just a year ago even saying anyone was hurt from the vax and you were a conspiracy theorist. I agree that the vaccine has most probably helped some people and has most probably hurt some people, i still think the facts are it wasnt tested properly as it couldnt have been tested properly without the proper time. The data shows overwhelmingly that people below the age of 50-60 didnt really need the vaccine and were most probably better off not geting it and certainly children were not needed to get it because age is very significant for the virus. The data on vaccine injuries is very dodgy because there are a lot of hoops to jump through for it to be marked as injury as that opens up compensation avenues and the government makes it very hard to do this so most of the injuries are relegated to other things because there is no direct correlation or no-one wants to acknowledge correlation. Im pretty sure the vaccines companies were the first ones to say that there is a possibility of heart problems from the vaccine when they were first issued yet it was pretty much pushed by governments as all ok without any mention of this. The hospitalisation numbers are pretty much the same since the vax numbers were over 90 percent so its debatable to say its completly effective and once again comes down a lot to age. My personal opinion is that it wasnt needed in a large portion of the population, the governments were wrong when they said its a pandemic of the unvaccinated and the unvaxxed were a risk to the elderly etc by not being vaxxed when its been proved that vaccination does nothing to limit others getting it from you. They were wrong with lockdowns simply because it would have been better to keep everything open in reduce movement rather than only have supermarkets open and that is where everyone went, it most probably increased infection by centralizing people into one location rather than spreading it out. Also i would seriously question the effectivness of the vaccine in that i dont think i have ever heard of a vaccine that loses it effectiveness after 2 or 3 months, most vaccines traditionally are long term options and i think it should be called a medication rather than a vaccine due to its short life span.

 

[Chief]

I wasn't working with vulnerable people. It was still policy for my work though like most people in West Australia. Compulsory vaccination or be deregistered. Sounds fair

I can't say much about it, not knowing what work you're doing.

But you are spreading "vaccines didn't work" misinformation.

 

[Chump Change]

How many jabs have you had and did it prevent you from getting covid just like the government told you it would?

I've had 5. Haven't had covid.

But that's not what they told us. They said jabs would reduce the chance of getting it, but more importantly reduce the symptoms. My wife has had it, my daughter has had it twice, and my two sons once each. They've all been jabbed multiple times. When they had covid, it typically lasted 3 days. I suspect without jabs it would have been more severe and lasted longer.

 

[Chief]

When they had covid, it typically lasted 3 days. I suspect without jabs it would have been more severe and lasted longer.

And the data from around the world backs this up.

 

[wgt]

ive had it 3 times without any jab, a walk in the park really for me, i've had much worse flues prior to covid. My dad who is over 80 and unjabbed has had it at least twice and i think he had a day in bed and thats about it, my uncle took about 3 days in bed but he's a bit of sook with most things.

 

[Steele13]

i said 10 people, i wouldnt say that was many but its still fact. I remember just a year ago even saying anyone was hurt from the vax and you were a conspiracy theorist. I agree that the vaccine has most probably helped some people and has most probably hurt some people, i still think the facts are it wasnt tested properly as it couldnt have been tested properly without the proper time. The data shows overwhelmingly that people below the age of 50-60 didnt really need the vaccine and were most probably better off not geting it and certainly children were not needed to get it because age is very significant for the virus. The data on vaccine injuries is very dodgy because there are a lot of hoops to jump through for it to be marked as injury as that opens up compensation avenues and the government makes it very hard to do this so most of the injuries are relegated to other things because there is no direct correlation or no-one wants to acknowledge correlation. Im pretty sure the vaccines companies were the first ones to say that there is a possibility of heart problems from the vaccine when they were first issued yet it was pretty much pushed by governments as all ok without any mention of this. The hospitalisation numbers are pretty much the same since the vax numbers were over 90 percent so its debatable to say its completly effective and once again comes down a lot to age. My personal opinion is that it wasnt needed in a large portion of the population, the governments were wrong when they said its a pandemic of the unvaccinated and the unvaxxed were a risk to the elderly etc by not being vaxxed when its been proved that vaccination does nothing to limit others getting it from you. They were wrong with lockdowns simply because it would have been better to keep everything open in reduce movement rather than only have supermarkets open and that is where everyone went, it most probably increased infection by centralizing people into one location rather than spreading it out. Also i would seriously question the effectivness of the vaccine in that i dont think i have ever heard of a vaccine that loses it effectiveness after 2 or 3 months, most vaccines traditionally are long term options and i think it should be called a medication rather than a vaccine due to its short life span.

Hit the nail on the head, despite the odd spelling mistake. Obviously should never have been mandated, and i'm sure no one would argue with that now.

 

[Chief]

I remember just a year ago even saying anyone was hurt from the vax and you were a conspiracy theorist

This is simply not true.

Anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists seems to have forgotten the whole pause in vaccinations due to data on suspected heart issues. When this was investigated further and found to be an extremely unlikely outcome for the vast majority of people, vaccinations continued. Millions of lives saved.

That was the safety mechanisms working.

Been over this a thousand times.

Never sinks in.

 

[wgt]

This is simply not true.

Anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists seems to have forgotten the whole pause in vaccinations due to data on suspected heart issues. When this was investigated further and found to be an extremely unlikely outcome for the vast majority of people, vaccinations continued. Millions of lives saved.

That was the safety mechanisms working.

Been over this a thousand times.

Never sinks in.

there are a lot of people with experiences that will testify against this, you can call them all lairs if you want but they experienced it and its pretty disingenuous to dismiss them. I remember the initial test results from the vax companies saying that there is a increased risk of certain heart conditions in certain people, that doesnt mean everyone and it doesnt mean in will happen but that i can happen. They said it not me

 

[faible]

They said it not me

found to be an extremely unlikely outcome for the vast majority of people

They sure did.

 

[Chief]

there are a lot of people with experiences that will testify against this, you can call them all lairs if you want but they experienced it and its pretty disingenuous to dismiss them. I remember the initial test results from the vax companies saying that there is a increased risk of certain heart conditions in certain people, that doesnt mean everyone and it doesnt mean in will happen but that i can happen. They said it not me

I'm not saying people haven't had adverse reactions. Some mild, some severe.

I'm not saying some vaxxed people haven't had severe cases of Covid.

I'm not saying some unvaxxed people haven't had Covid that has barely bothered them.

I'm saying that people who think the vaccines don't work because they've seen people like the above are kidding themselves.

I'm saying that people saying "everyone I know" and "all the medical people I know" might be lying. Or ignoring data points that don't conform to their view.

 

[wgt]

They sure did.

I'm not saying people haven't had adverse reactions. Some mild, some severe.

I'm not saying some vaxxed people haven't had severe cases of Covid.

I'm not saying some unvaxxed people haven't had Covid that has barely bothered them.

I'm saying that people who think the vaccines don't work because they've seen people like the above are kidding themselves.

I'm saying that people saying "everyone I know" and "all the medical people I know" might be lying. Or ignoring data points that don't conform to their view.

there is data out there that would confirm that its not all hunky dorey as the government would have you believe. I think both sides have valid points but it just seems to be the extreme coming from both sides. The antivaxxers will tell you the sky is falling while the vaxxers will tell you "nothing to see here, go get your 6th booster" Like with most things the truth is somewhere in the middle and netiher side want to acknowledge any fault.

 

[faible]

there is data out there that would confirm that its not all hunky dorey as the government would have you believe. I think both sides have valid points but it just seems to be the extreme coming from both sides. The antivaxxers will tell you the sky is falling while the vaxxers will tell you "nothing to see here, go get your 6th booster" Like with most things the truth is somewhere in the middle and netiher side want to acknowledge any fault.

Untrue.

The truth is somewhere in the region of 99% towards the side of the 'vaxxers' as you call them.

Pretty much every item of information spruiked by the anti-vaxx side is somewhere being misleading out of context information or outright lies.

 

[Chief]

there is data out there that would confirm that its not all hunky dorey as the government would have you believe.

This is very vague.

Which data? What does it prove?

 

[wgt]

once again, no-side will concede anything, both sides are as arrogant as each other so ill leave you with it.

 

[Chief]

once again, no-side will concede anything, both sides are as arrogant as each other so ill leave you with it.

Rubbish.

 

[faible]

the truth is somewhere in the middle

both sides are as arrogant as each other

Sorry to tell you friend, but both sides-ing doesn't work in every setting.

One side has the vast majority of the relevant experts all saying varying degrees of the same thing, the other is mostly pushed by non-experts.

It's not a 'both sides have a fair and equal argument' type of thing.

One side is relying on misleading information presented out of context or lies, the other is not. You can believe what you like, but there's no onus on anyone else to agree with you or quietly let you say whatever you like when we've seen exactly the kind of outcomes that leads to.

You backed the wrong horse here, exit the discussion trying to fling insults if you like.

 

[Steele13]

Rubbish.

Proved his point in one word. Impressive.

 

[Chief]

Proved his point in one word. Impressive.

See post above yours.

 

[Steele13]

See post above yours.

Nice try, but unlike you I am able to see both sides.

 

[Chief]

"It's not a 'both sides have a fair and equal argument' type of thing."

 

[Steele13]

"It's not a 'both sides have a fair and equal argument' type of thing."

Ah ok, I looked at the wrong post.

Depends what you all both sides I guess. Those who argued, like me, against mandates definitley have an equal argument. Otherwise these wouldn't be irrefutable facts.

• Can get the vaccine and still get Covid.
• Can get the vaccine and still pass on Covid.
• Can get the vaccine and still die from Covid.
• Can get the vaccine and have serious injury.

 

[faible]

Ah ok, I looked at the wrong post.

Depends what you all both sides I guess. Those who argued, like me, against mandates definitley have an equal argument. Otherwise these wouldn't be irrefutable facts.

• Can get the vaccine and still get Covid.
• Can get the vaccine and still pass on Covid.
• Can get the vaccine and still die from Covid.
• Can get the vaccine and have serious injury.

cOnTeXt MaTtErS

One side is relying on misleading information presented out of context

 

[Chief]

irrefutable facts

So funny. Just... three years and still clueless.