Is Old Music Killing New Music?

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Wrong headline. If anything, the suits are killing it, not the old music, though possibly modern music is just not as good.
Not having tv shows like Countdown and the various 80s shows doesn't help. I guess there is Rage for the night owls.

Foss you should spend some time and listen to the whole thing, Gioia is right on the money.

 

[giggler99]

I'm not sure if Nicky Minaj is still a somebody or not, apparently she's sold 100 million with memorable lyrics like.........
You a stupid hoe, you a, you a stupid hoe
You a stupid hoe, you a, you a stupid hoe
You a stupid hoe, you a, you a stupid hoe
You a stupid hoe, yeah, you a, you a stupid hoe

I think i'll stick to something like "You've got a hubcap diamond star halo"

Its all just junk but unfortunately that's whats classified as 'art' these days.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

I've been listening to an audio book, that I downloaded from the local library, called "Icons of Rock" by Jenny Boyd, the little sister of Patty Boyd of George Harrison and Eric Clapton fame.
Her book is a fascinating investigation of the creative process of writing songs. She interviews 75 musicians and songwriters. The one that really got my attention was her interview with "Eg" White a musician, songwriter and producer. She asked him about the difference between music today and the music of the 1980's. He spoke about what he thought was biggest thing to happen today, Spotify. Spotify enormously rewards songs that sound good in the first 20 seconds, because the artist gets paid by Spotify if you listen to 31 seconds of music, they don't get paid if you only listen for 29 seconds. This has bought about a change in the way songs are written and made. In the past they were written by a couple of people who put the words and instruments together (think Lennon and McCartney). Nowadays, it may be made up by around a dozen people. The original writer will put together something, usually on a synth, then it will be sent off to the drum guy who adds the drum track. Then the "top liners" come in, they add the words and chorus. There is then discussion on who to send the song to and ask, do you want this? If they do, the singer will add their part. Then the question is: is this music enough to get people interested in the first 10 seconds. If it gets the OK the singer will add what they want, musicians are engaged and their music is added. This means there are 12-15 writers involved and they all get a cut, which is a lot less than what you got in the past. The writers and performers are no longer in control. But then came along Tik Tok (Ted Gioia covers this quite well in his Rick Beato discussion). White describes Tik Tok as bonkers. Songs typically have clever or funny lyrics to grab your attention in the first 8-11 seconds. Long songs on Spotify and Tik Tok are a thing of the past, a middle-8 or a bridge are not needed. It's more important to keep the song under 2.20 min. Keep it short and if they like it they'll play it again and we'll get paid twice.
His comment that his kids, their friends and the children of his friends are all listening to Queen, The Stones, Bob Dylan and they were listening to Joni Mitchell before she ripped her stuff off line. Spotify and Tik Tok are the way thing are done but by the time kids reach around 17 or so they are done with it and they start to discover other styles of music.

Eg White was probably the most interesting of all the artists.

Jenny Boyd was married to Mick Fleetwood before Chrissy McVie and Lindsay Buckingham joined. Her sister Patty famously had quite a few songs written about her like, Something and Layla, along with a heap of other songs.
Jenny has only one. Written and performed by Donovan, Jennifer Juniper.

I can recommend the book as one thoroughly worth reading or listening to.
https://thestrangebrew.co.uk/interviews/jenny-boyd/

 

[giggler99]

I've been listening to an audio book, that I downloaded from the local library, called "Icons of Rock" by Jenny Boyd, the little sister of Patty Boyd of George Harrison and Eric Clapton fame.
Her book is a fascinating investigation of the creative process of writing songs. She interviews 75 musicians and songwriters. The one that really got my attention was her interview with "Eg" White a musician, songwriter and producer. She asked him about the difference between music today and the music of the 1980's. He spoke about what he thought was biggest thing to happen today, Spotify. Spotify enormously rewards songs that sound good in the first 20 seconds, because the artist gets paid by Spotify if you listen to 31 seconds of music, they don't get paid if you only listen for 29 seconds. This has bought about a change in the way songs are written and made. In the past they were written by a couple of people who put the words and instruments together (think Lennon and McCartney). Nowadays, it may be made up by around a dozen people. The original writer will put together something, usually on a synth, then it will be sent off to the drum guy who adds the drum track. Then the "top liners" come in, they add the words and chorus. There is then discussion on who to send the song to and ask, do you want this? If they do, the singer will add their part. Then the question is: is this music enough to get people interested in the first 10 seconds. If it gets the OK the singer will add what they want, musicians are engaged and their music is added. This means there are 12-15 writers involved and they all get a cut, which is a lot less than what you got in the past. The writers and performers are no longer in control. But then came along Tik Tok (Ted Gioia covers this quite well in his Rick Beato discussion). White describes Tik Tok as bonkers. Songs typically have clever or funny lyrics to grab your attention in the first 8-11 seconds. Long songs on Spotify and Tik Tok are a thing of the past, a middle-8 or a bridge are not needed. It's more important to keep the song under 2.20 min. Keep it short and if they like it they'll play it again and we'll get paid twice.
His comment that his kids, their friends and the children of his friends are all listening to Queen, The Stones, Bob Dylan and they were listening to Joni Mitchell before she ripped her stuff off line. Spotify and Tik Tok are the way thing are done but by the time kids reach around 17 or so they are done with it and they start to discover other styles of music.

Eg White was probably the most interesting of all the artists.

Jenny Boyd was married to Mick Fleetwood before Chrissy McVie and Lindsay Buckingham joined. Her sister Patty famously had quite a few songs written about her like, Something and Layla, along with a heap of other songs.
Jenny has only one. Written and performed by Donovan, Jennifer Juniper.

I can recommend the book as one thoroughly worth reading or listening to.
https://thestrangebrew.co.uk/interviews/jenny-boyd/

Great thanks for that summary I might check this book out. wow 31 secs! no wander none of these songs have lead ins. I always had a feeling that streaming music was going to change the landscape but to the extend that some greedy suites just tune up junk in a committee room to satisfy there means and exploit the industry well... I'm not surprised really. But to sacrifice the music for a few measly dollars in their pockets just grins my gears. It's not just the music industry this is happening too streaming is also destroying the TV industry and gaming industry is also heading in that direction but that discussion is for a different thread.

I don't know how the industry gets out of this or if it even wants too. Someone will have to come up with a different means to share and create music in future to change the game again what that will be or looks like I have no idea.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Great thanks for that summary I might check this book out. wow 31 secs! no wander none of these songs have lead ins. I always had a feeling that streaming music was going to change the landscape but to the extend that some greedy suites just tune up junk in a committee room to satisfy there means and exploit the industry well... I'm not surprised really. But to sacrifice the music for a few measly dollars in their pockets just grins my gears. It's not just the music industry this is happening too streaming is also destroying the TV industry and gaming industry is also heading in that direction but that discussion is for a different thread.

I don't know how the industry gets out of this or if it even wants too. Someone will have to come up with a different means to share and create music in future to change the game again what that will be or looks like I have no idea.

Eg White mentioned that he thought that music delivery in the 50's and early 60's was in many ways like Spotify. Most music was delivered over the radio and whether the song continued on the playlist depended on sales (which led to the top 40). Songs were short and musicians didn't make a lot of money, but record companies did. It was when performers were able to exert control to make music that they wanted. People developed a loyalty to a band, singer or musician and could now easily purchase their records and play them over and over. Bands had the confidence to pursue their own self expression and creative ideas. Fans spent their own money and had a feeling of ownership of the music they listened to.
Like you I have no idea what direction the music industry is heading.
I can only hope that it gets a lot better.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

I've been listening to an audio book, that I downloaded from the local library, called "Icons of Rock" by Jenny Boyd, the little sister of Patty Boyd of George Harrison and Eric Clapton fame.
Her book is a fascinating investigation of the creative process of writing songs. She interviews 75 musicians and songwriters. The one that really got my attention was her interview with "Eg" White a musician, songwriter and producer. She asked him about the difference between music today and the music of the 1980's. He spoke about what he thought was biggest thing to happen today, Spotify. Spotify enormously rewards songs that sound good in the first 20 seconds, because the artist gets paid by Spotify if you listen to 31 seconds of music, they don't get paid if you only listen for 29 seconds. This has bought about a change in the way songs are written and made. In the past they were written by a couple of people who put the words and instruments together (think Lennon and McCartney). Nowadays, it may be made up by around a dozen people. The original writer will put together something, usually on a synth, then it will be sent off to the drum guy who adds the drum track. Then the "top liners" come in, they add the words and chorus. There is then discussion on who to send the song to and ask, do you want this? If they do, the singer will add their part. Then the question is: is this music enough to get people interested in the first 10 seconds. If it gets the OK the singer will add what they want, musicians are engaged and their music is added. This means there are 12-15 writers involved and they all get a cut, which is a lot less than what you got in the past. The writers and performers are no longer in control. But then came along Tik Tok (Ted Gioia covers this quite well in his Rick Beato discussion). White describes Tik Tok as bonkers. Songs typically have clever or funny lyrics to grab your attention in the first 8-11 seconds. Long songs on Spotify and Tik Tok are a thing of the past, a middle-8 or a bridge are not needed. It's more important to keep the song under 2.20 min. Keep it short and if they like it they'll play it again and we'll get paid twice.
His comment that his kids, their friends and the children of his friends are all listening to Queen, The Stones, Bob Dylan and they were listening to Joni Mitchell before she ripped her stuff off line. Spotify and Tik Tok are the way thing are done but by the time kids reach around 17 or so they are done with it and they start to discover other styles of music.

Eg White was probably the most interesting of all the artists.

Jenny Boyd was married to Mick Fleetwood before Chrissy McVie and Lindsay Buckingham joined. Her sister Patty famously had quite a few songs written about her like, Something and Layla, along with a heap of other songs.
Jenny has only one. Written and performed by Donovan, Jennifer Juniper.

I can recommend the book as one thoroughly worth reading or listening to.
https://thestrangebrew.co.uk/interviews/jenny-boyd/

Really interesting, thanks for the summary Cliff.

However, due to the vast quantity of music available nowadays - Spotify or elsewhere - there is still as much brilliant stuff being recorded and released as there ever was. It just takes a quite a bit more filtering of the rubbish to find it than it ever has.

Those who seek superficial, disposable music will still get what they want and deserve too.

 

[Fossie 32]

Really interesting, thanks for the summary Cliff.

However, due to the vast quantity of music available nowadays - Spotify or elsewhere - there is still as much brilliant stuff being recorded and released as there ever was. It just takes a quite a bit more filtering of the rubbish to find it than it ever has.

Those who seek superficial, disposable music will still get what they want and deserve too.

What is brilliant is subjective but it doesn't seem like that to me. Maybe I haven't been looking too hard but have only come across three new artists that I recall in the last 10 years or so that inspired me to buy their stuff - Samantha Fish, Tal Wilkenfeld and Caroline Rose. Do you have examples of the stuff you refer to and where you find it?

 

[GhostofJimJess]

What is brilliant is subjective but it doesn't seem like that to me. Maybe I haven't been looking too hard but have only come across three new artists that I recall in the last 10 years or so that inspired me to buy their stuff - Samantha Fish, Tal Wilkenfeld and Caroline Rose. Do you have examples of the stuff you refer to and where you find it?

We probably have very different tastes and genres Foss, but as a devotee of psychedelic rock, stoner, prog, punk etc there's a wealth of stuff from the last decade I would happily place in my top 100 records of all time.

King Buffalo and Elder would be at the top of my "recent list" FWIW. The stuff coming out of Europe is astonishing - Germany, Sweden, Greece, France and even Poland have a host of artists whose records I would buy and would travel miles to see live (if they ever toured Oz!)

It's all out there my friend. Perhaps a little harder to isolate from the pack than it was in my Gen X youth, but just as rewarding when you do. Maybe I'm wrong in assuming that other musical tastes would be equally represented?

 

[the_interloper]

I listen to more old music than new music I reckon, because I have access to music that I wouldn't buy back in the day I've still got stuff to discover.

That said I try to listen to a new album a week, on average I reckon I do. Must be tough to invest that amount of time in recording an album when you're going to get heck all return on it.

 

[dumb]

i posted a bunch of stuff in the other similar thread, but might be able to dream up some other ideas

'killing' is subjective. old music has become filtered through streaming platforms, the turkeys have been lost to time and what we're hearing is a distilled version of the past. streaming has blown the market open and older people now have access to older music, but i'd be surprised if much of what older people listen to are albums, as such. the older people genuinely interested in music will already have the hard copies of the albums. i imagine that old people entering the music streaming market now, like that one song from that person they heard on the radio one time. streaming has killed old music as much as it has given people access to it. the market has become flush with technologically capable people who are interested in older music. but no interest albums, only popular tracks.

 

[giggler99]

I've been listening to an audio book, that I downloaded from the local library, called "Icons of Rock" by Jenny Boyd, the little sister of Patty Boyd of George Harrison and Eric Clapton fame.
Her book is a fascinating investigation of the creative process of writing songs. She interviews 75 musicians and songwriters. The one that really got my attention was her interview with "Eg" White a musician, songwriter and producer. She asked him about the difference between music today and the music of the 1980's. He spoke about what he thought was biggest thing to happen today, Spotify. Spotify enormously rewards songs that sound good in the first 20 seconds, because the artist gets paid by Spotify if you listen to 31 seconds of music, they don't get paid if you only listen for 29 seconds. This has bought about a change in the way songs are written and made. In the past they were written by a couple of people who put the words and instruments together (think Lennon and McCartney). Nowadays, it may be made up by around a dozen people. The original writer will put together something, usually on a synth, then it will be sent off to the drum guy who adds the drum track. Then the "top liners" come in, they add the words and chorus. There is then discussion on who to send the song to and ask, do you want this? If they do, the singer will add their part. Then the question is: is this music enough to get people interested in the first 10 seconds. If it gets the OK the singer will add what they want, musicians are engaged and their music is added. This means there are 12-15 writers involved and they all get a cut, which is a lot less than what you got in the past. The writers and performers are no longer in control. But then came along Tik Tok (Ted Gioia covers this quite well in his Rick Beato discussion). White describes Tik Tok as bonkers. Songs typically have clever or funny lyrics to grab your attention in the first 8-11 seconds. Long songs on Spotify and Tik Tok are a thing of the past, a middle-8 or a bridge are not needed. It's more important to keep the song under 2.20 min. Keep it short and if they like it they'll play it again and we'll get paid twice.
His comment that his kids, their friends and the children of his friends are all listening to Queen, The Stones, Bob Dylan and they were listening to Joni Mitchell before she ripped her stuff off line. Spotify and Tik Tok are the way thing are done but by the time kids reach around 17 or so they are done with it and they start to discover other styles of music.

Eg White was probably the most interesting of all the artists.

Jenny Boyd was married to Mick Fleetwood before Chrissy McVie and Lindsay Buckingham joined. Her sister Patty famously had quite a few songs written about her like, Something and Layla, along with a heap of other songs.
Jenny has only one. Written and performed by Donovan, Jennifer Juniper.

I can recommend the book as one thoroughly worth reading or listening to.
https://thestrangebrew.co.uk/interviews/jenny-boyd/

CliffMcTainshaw I decided to check out the podcast from that website ‘the strange brew’, boy do I feel stupid not knowing about it. Some great stuff with some awesome interviews and guests. Going through the backlog of episodes now