MRP / Trib. Higgins - 3 weeks for Aliir tackle

[PJays]

What are our thoughts on this one?

Initially I agreed with Jordan Lewis

Jordan Lewis

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38

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186cm

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86kg

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Last 5

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23.5

5star

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12.1

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.7

4star

MG

310.5

4star

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D

15.0

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

5star

- Aliir contributed to the momentum. Higgins was engaging in a relatively normal tackling motion.

Then I thought, well yes but there's still a duty of care to tackle in a way that minimises risk of injury. Higgins could've bailed mid-way. Aliir was concussed and Higgins bears some responsibility for that- given how AFL now interprets things- so 1 week may be appropriate.

 

[ozaddy]

Watched, rewatched, Alir even though he kicks the ball and puts himself in a position where his shoulder would hit first, it's Higgins that ensures that he lifted with one arm and dragged with the other to make the rotation such as head first. Not buying that Higgins couldn't do anything else.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Not sure how there is any confusion or argument about this. Held his arm, slung him and regardless of if Aliir is trying to kick the ball, Higgins has the duty of care not to slam his head down once he’s initiated the tackle in that manner.

Could have just wrapped both arms around him but chose to sling.

Lucky it’s not 4.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

What are our thoughts on this one?

Initially I agreed with Jordan Lewis- Aliir contributed to the momentum. Higgins was engaging in a relatively normal tackling motion.

Then I thought, well yes but there's still a duty of care to tackle in a way that minimises risk of injury. Higgins could've bailed mid-way. Aliir was concussed and Higgins bears some responsibility for that- given how AFL now interprets things- so 1 week may be appropriate.

The same thing happened today with Kennedy and Dangerfield.

Dangerfield just bounced up though and ran off.

But his kicking motion caused him to be flung into the ground headfirst whilst being tackled by Kennedy.

 

[Xtreme]

Lucky he didn't cop 6 weeks

The act needs to be stamped out of the game and if players want to keep doing it, give them an automatic 6-12 weeks on the sidelines.

 

[spenze]

Can't blame Aliir for trying to make sure he got a boot to the ball and that is what some people are trying to do.

In a way I feel sorry for Higgins but he was always in trouble as soon as that happened. Tackle, head hits ground, against all odds a Port medico doesn't send him back on...lucky to not get 6 weeks with those facts

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Can't blame Aliir for trying to make sure he got a boot to the ball and that is what some people are trying to do.

In a way I feel sorry for Higgins but he was always in trouble as soon as that happened. Tackle, head hits ground, against all odds a Port medico doesn't send him back on...lucky to not get 6 weeks with those facts

It begs the question though: do you tackle a guy who might attempt to kick it?

As I said earlier, the exact thing happened today at the MCG.

 

[spenze]

It begs the question though: do you tackle a guy who might attempt to kick it?

As I said earlier, the exact thing happened today at the MCG.

I get that but once he tackles, he has a duty of care.

It does bring up a paradox though (if that is the right word, I am pretty smashed on the home brews tonight, have made an excellent copy of Stone and Wood pale), the players tackle one arm as it is the best way of getting a holding the ball, put both arms around and it is a ball up.

It is a tough call

 

[HairyO]

A Port player was pinged for a dangerous tackle but no MRO mention ?

Again we are only giving weeks if a player is injured and no penaltg if the tackler is lucky ?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I get that but once he tackles, he has a duty of care.

It does bring up a paradox though (if that is the right word, I am pretty smashed on the home brews tonight, have made an excellent copy of Stone and Wood pale), the players tackle one arm as it is the best way of getting a holding the ball, put both arms around and it is a ball up.

It is a tough call

That's the issue with this one.

As you say, not that long ago, tackling a player by one arm so they couldn't correctly dispose of the ball was considered 'the perfect tackle'.

But if you do that, and the player chooses to try to kick the ball to get rid of it, like Alir did on Friday and Dangerfield did yesterday - you could end up with 3 weeks!


I guess in summary, what I'm saying is that it was Alir's action, not Higgins' that turned a normal tackle into a 'dangerous' one.

 

[Barrybran]

That's the issue with this one.

As you say, not that long ago, tackling a player by one arm so they couldn't correctly dispose of the ball was considered 'the perfect tackle'.

But if you do that, and the player chooses to try to kick the ball to get rid of it, like Alir did on Friday and Dangerfield did yesterday - you could end up with 3 weeks!


I guess in summary, what I'm saying is that it was Alir's action, not Higgins' that turned a normal tackle into a 'dangerous' one.

Yep. The tackle itself was fine. The argument around 'what is Allir supposed to do' is fair but this is the first case we'll see where the shoe is on the other foot by way of the player being tackled has contributed to the severity of the tackle. By choosing to kick, Aliir has put himself off balance and his momentum has carried him and Higgins down.

 

[theouthouse]

Yep. The tackle itself was fine. The argument around 'what is Allir supposed to do' is fair but this is the first case we'll see where the shoe is on the other foot by way of the player being tackled has contributed to the severity of the tackle. By choosing to kick, Aliir has put himself off balance and his momentum has carried him and Higgins down.

Bullshit.

You tackle a bloke and pin one arm. He is going to try and get rid of the ball legally and not get caught holding or dropping the ball. How would you expect him to get rid of the ball then?

By foot.

It is 100% the tacklers motive to reduce the likelihood of disposal to foot only and get the player off balance in the kicking motion to miss the ball and win a free kick.

All this comes from the act of pinning one arm in a tackle.

It's a two motion tackle, pin the arm first and then get player off balance.

Concussion is pretty much an automatic high and severe contact, so the grading seems fair.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Bullshit.

You tackle a bloke and pin one arm. He is going to try and get rid of the ball legally and not get caught holding or dropping the ball. How would you expect him to get rid of the ball then?

By foot.

It is 100% the tacklers motive to reduce the likelihood of disposal to foot only and get the player off balance in the kicking motion to miss the ball and win a free kick.

All this comes from the act of pinning one arm in a tackle.

It's a two motion tackle, pin the arm first and then get player off balance.

Concussion is pretty much an automatic high and severe contact, so the grading seems fair.

None of what you've described is remotely illegal though?

You're allowed to do all of that - and as the poster you replied to pointed out, this is often described as the 'perfect tackle'.

It just seems weird that the exact same action is 'perfect', unless the player you tackled tries to fling his boot at it - then you're screwed.

It's a weird situation.


Even weirder is that the AFL obviously want players to try to fling their boot at it to keep the play moving. I mean, I'd they don't, they'll be pinged for HTB.

So the tackler is screwed because the perfect tackle apparently isn't so perfect all of a sudden. And the player that gets tackled by one arm is screwed because if they don't fling their boot at it to get rid of it they'll give away a Free Kick, but if they do they could get themselves knocked out.

 

[Barrybran]

Bullshit.

You tackle a bloke and pin one arm. He is going to try and get rid of the ball legally and not get caught holding or dropping the ball. How would you expect him to get rid of the ball then?

By foot.

It is 100% the tacklers motive to reduce the likelihood of disposal to foot only and get the player off balance in the kicking motion to miss the ball and win a free kick.

All this comes from the act of pinning one arm in a tackle.

It's a two motion tackle, pin the arm first and then get player off balance.

Concussion is pretty much an automatic high and severe contact, so the grading seems fair.

It was a one motion tackle that wasn't going anywhere until Aliir kicked the ball

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

Aliir copped a week for this

 

[MickG88]

It's a two motion tackle, pin the arm first and then get player off balance.

Do you think Higgins would be able to sling Allir if Allir didn't try to kick it? Higgins is a small forward and Allir is a KPD, big difference in size and height.

 

[Plugger35]

Once again Michael Christian chooses to make an example out of a St Kilda player with a ridiculous over the top suspension.

Aliir put himself off balance by trying to kick the ball while he is being tackled and because he didn't protect himself and got concussed Higgins cops 3 weeks. At the most it should be one week like most other sling tackles, 3 weeks for that is a joke.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

What absolute nonsense that Aliir contributed or is at fault for this tackle.

From the very first frame, Higgins has grabbed one arm and is dragging him down before using his other arm to apply greater force and apply the swinging motion.

From the moment he initiates the tackle, Aliir has his right foot planted firmly and the other in the air. It is only due to Higgins sideways action and momentum from his tackle that Aliir is swung sideways.



He then goes to drop the ball to his foot which if it wasn’t for this sideways sling from Higgins, would have been straight onto his foot. You can already see by this point the sideways momentum due to Higgins completely shifting Aliirs weight and the turning motion. This isn’t Aliir going for a round house kick. It’s the motion of Higgins completely shifting Aliirs weights and balance.



Then as he’s already coming to ground, he’s further pulling his arm down which prevents him from bracing for impact and continues the motion into the ground.



Then Higgins goes to ground, continues with his other arm to follow through with the full slinging action.



It’s just insanity to claim this was Aliirs doing or due to his own actions. It is not a natural football kicking action to round house kick. That motion only happens due to Higgins tackle and momentum from the moment he initiated the tackle in this way.

 

[Captivating]

Lucky he didn't cop 6 weeks

The act needs to be stamped out of the game and if players want to keep doing it, give them an automatic 6-12 weeks on the sidelines.

That's fine, but the same action with no concussion is leading to zero or 1 week. So the AFL has no issue with the action. They only care about the outcome.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

What absolute nonsense that Aliir contributed or is at fault for this tackle.

From the very first frame, Higgins has grabbed one arm and is dragging him down before using his other arm to apply greater force and apply the swinging motion.

From the moment he initiates the tackle, Aliir has his right foot planted firmly and the other in the air. It is only due to Higgins sideways action and momentum from his tackle that Aliir is swung sideways.

View attachment 1973376

He then goes to drop the ball to his foot which if it wasn’t for this sideways sling from Higgins, would have been straight onto his foot. You can already see by this point the sideways momentum due to Higgins completely shifting Aliirs weight and the turning motion. This isn’t Aliir going for a round house kick. It’s the motion of Higgins completely shifting Aliirs weights and balance.

View attachment 1973377

Then as he’s already coming to ground, he’s further pulling his arm down which prevents him from bracing for impact and continues the motion into the ground.

View attachment 1973378

Then Higgins goes to ground, continues with his other arm to follow through with the full slinging action.

View attachment 1973379

It’s just insanity to claim this was Aliirs doing or due to his own actions. It is not a natural football kicking action to round house kick. That motion only happens due to Higgins tackle and momentum from the moment he initiated the tackle in this way.

Using still frames to debate physics and body movement is pretty futile.


But....in the final frame Alir is completely off the ground with his legs elevated above the height of his head. This is why his head hit the ground, and why it hit the ground hard enough for him to fail a concussion test (even though Hinkley said he seemed fine).

Higgins did not lift Alir off the ground. This is clear in the photos. He was pulling him down. It's impossible for Higgins to pull Alir down like he did and for Alir to end up airborne with his feet elevated above his head, without Alir contributing to it.

Higgins' tackle would not have caused any damage unless Alir flung his boot at the ball.

Did Alir do anything wrong? No.

Did Higgins do anything wrong? No.

Was it a bad outcome for Alir? Yes.

Should a guy gets 3 weeks for not doing anything wrong? I personally don't think so.

 

[theouthouse]

None of what you've described is remotely illegal though?

You're allowed to do all of that - and as the poster you replied to pointed out, this is often described as the 'perfect tackle'.

It just seems weird that the exact same action is 'perfect', unless the player you tackled tries to fling his boot at it - then you're screwed.

It's a weird situation.


Even weirder is that the AFL obviously want players to try to fling their boot at it to keep the play moving. I mean, I'd they don't, they'll be pinged for HTB.

So the tackler is screwed because the perfect tackle apparently isn't so perfect all of a sudden. And the player that gets tackled by one arm is screwed because if they don't fling their boot at it to get rid of it they'll give away a Free Kick, but if they do they could get themselves knocked out.

It's not a perfect tackle. It is a two motion tackle, grab the player first, then sling or use own body weight to manoeuvre player into the ground. Very very clear from the video footage that it is a sling tackle due to these exact moves, therefore an illegal tackle.

A perfect tackle would have involved Higgins dropping his knees and attempting to bring Aliir straight to ground or not at all if he was incapable of it, instead of wrestling him across his body using his lower centre of gravity to Aliir, aka the "sling".

 

[Romeoh1]

3 weeks is too much for this tackle. Worth 1.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Using still frames to debate physics and body movement is pretty futile.


But....in the final frame Alir is completely off the ground with his legs elevated above the height of his head. This is why his head hit the ground, and why it hit the ground hard enough for him to fail a concussion test (even though Hinkley said he seemed fine).

Higgins did not lift Alir off the ground. This is clear in the photos. He was pulling him down. It's impossible for Higgins to pull Alir down like he did and for Alir to end up airborne with his feet elevated above his head, without Alir contributing to it.

Higgins' tackle would not have caused any damage unless Alir flung his boot at the ball.

Did Alir do anything wrong? No.

Did Higgins do anything wrong? No.

Was it a bad outcome for Alir? Yes.

Should a guy gets 3 weeks for not doing anything wrong? I personally don't think so.

He pulled him and swung him around when he was already off balance on one foot causing his momentum to roll his head into the ground. That’s 100% on Higgins and the actions he took.

Right when Aliir gets the ball his whole weight is on his right leg and he’s not attempting to kick. Higgins pulls him downwards and sideways from the left. That is going to cause anyone to roll over in this fashion as his body weight and the weight of Higgins is transitioned to the left.

Even if Aliir just dropped the ball once Higgins grabbed him he still would have rolled over in the exact same way.

He is completely off the ground in that last frame because he was been swung around and dragged down. That transition of weight from his right to left due to the tackle, momentum from the tackle down and across the body will result in this.

It’s a poor technique from Higgins.

 

[MagpieJo]

I said 2, you just can’t sling a player to the ground, it’s not worth the risk.

 

[danster168]

I don't understand people that voted 'no penalty'. it's a clear sling, with force, that resulted in an injury. such an easy decision. All of this talk about contributing is nonsense. The onus is on the tackler to not sling, bottom line.