Goulburn Valley General Thread 2011- 2012

[stuyd1]

Comparing the two is always hard depending on what teams you see play and how that game is played....I also watched both Grand Finals and though the GVFL grandfinal had less scoring, less flowing play and less fights than the O&M GF, it had much more defensive pressure across the entire ground. So It is like comparing the Sydney Swans/West Coast GF's a few years back to the Hawk/Cats in 1989. I think overall the GVFL is a stronger comp and it will be even better again this year with the recruiting of Echuca, Kyabram and Shep Swans, so there maybe 8 or 9 teams pushing for the top 3 spots in the GV this year....surely you can't say that about the O&M.

Tatsean,
hear what your saying and you are correct that the GVFL grand final had more defensive pressure like the Swans/West Coast gf a few years ago.... like the defensive type strategies that not only Roos developed, but also Malthouse and Ross Lyons.(boring footy) Fact is footy evolves and in the AFL, for the past 2 seasons especially, this type of defensive footy has lessened to some degree and the importance of attack has refoccused in game plans.Point im getting at, is that the O&M have followed suit here( as has the State Leagues) maybe a little quicker then the GVFL, thus a little better standard of footy.im sure with the professional coachs and club heirachys, the GVFL will adjust to this type of footy as of season 2013..
I must say, with myself being an O&M supporter and then commenting after Johnny Mossops original post a few days ago, I thought .... geez Im in for a bagging here on your leagues post... but no, its creating some good discussion and I appreciate the fact that you guys have not come out and given me a roasting .

 

[bradrowe#32]

Any idea what those particular issues are that Echuca has? I know they were pretty annoyed about the fixture and losing the home Easter game.

Echuca and Rochester always follow each other into different leagues, but I doubt Rochester would go back to the BFL this time.

 

[ringo1]

Have it on good authority that Echuca FC are sounding out a return to the Bendigo FL. Apparently sick of the Shepparton centric decisions made in favour and by collusion, that benfits only those in or close to Shepparton. Watch this space !!!!

Not often I'd agree with you OTB but it could make sense for Echuca and Rochy to return to the Bendigo league. Kyneton are done and dusted and look as if they might head to the Riddell league in the near future and if Gisborne were successful in gaining entry to the Ballarat league/Metro league then the travel wouldn't be a factor. For the GV they would then need to get a couple of MFL teams with a solid population base to join it to cover the losses. Cobram, Deni come to mind but then its a travel issue again. Can't see it happening as it is up to the powers to be but who knows.

 

[stuyd1]

Just spoke with Kirbs & put this question straight to him & asked as he has played at both levels successfully which did he think was better & he said he believes it changes every year but from his experience O&M by a whisker.... So then I asked as the old saying goes "your team is only as good as your bottom 6 players" what was his opinion of the bottom few sides in both comps if playing each other & what was the depth like in all teams & again he said it would be O&M marginally.... So as it pains me to say one of the more successful country vic players over the last 15yrs thinks its O&M by a nose! But keeping in mind how close it is it could quite easily change year after year just through recruits, retirements, juniors stepping up to seniors & departures....

Smoothmover,
well done and appreciate your honesty here in relation to Kirbs answers.Overall, the O&M is a higher standard, in Kirbs judgement, and that is what I was saying... at no time was I saying the O&M was streets ahead.

 

[GG Rides Again]

Tatsean,
hear what your saying and you are correct that the GVFL grand final had more defensive pressure like the Swans/West Coast gf a few years ago.... like the defensive type strategies that not only Roos developed, but also Malthouse and Ross Lyons.(boring footy) Fact is footy evolves and in the AFL, for the past 2 seasons especially, this type of defensive footy has lessened to some degree and the importance of attack has refoccused in game plans.Point im getting at, is that the O&M have followed suit here( as has the State Leagues) maybe a little quicker then the GVFL, thus a little better standard of footy.im sure with the professional coachs and club heirachys, the GVFL will adjust to this type of footy as of season 2013..
I must say, with myself being an O&M supporter and then commenting after Johnny Mossops original post a few days ago, I thought .... geez Im in for a bagging here on your leagues post... but no, its creating some good discussion and I appreciate the fact that you guys have not come out and given me a roasting .

its fair to assume you play to your strengths and attacking footy with Fevola standing in a square would be all you need to do. Patrick Rose one of the better VFL players to play O&M would also deserve this service so to suggest its more attacking is not telling us much at all. You would not being doing the players justice to play a St Kilda/Ross Lyon game of you kick 6 and we will kick 7 goals to win. This year with Eagle and Weeks playing I think it will be fair to assume United and Rochy will play a faster more attacking game than last year with more quality forwards available. Some other teams will load their backlines in both O&M and GV to slow the game.

 

[stuyd1]

The O&M with three centres of comparable size to Shepparton (Wangaratta, Wodonga & Albury) should have the wood over the GV due to population. The large country towns in the GV do a fantastic job in supplying strong major league teams aswell as supporting a couple of district teams each.

GV teams are still very healthy and field their own 2s and 3s teams without alternate arrangements. In the O&M, Myrtleford join with minor league team Bright to field a junior side.

As for the argument of the bottom sides, a few teams have realised that they cannot be perennial powers and must take their turn at the bottom. It wasn't that long ago that discussions on BigFooty were discussing the suitability of Tatura to join the KDFL. Some may require more years in the cellars than others and then wait for the right local contingent for an assault.

Let's be proud that our Murray Bushranger region contains two very powerful leagues that many AFL players join after their national careers ahead of playing VFL or metro footy.

Grasskat,
all O&M teams field 2s and 3s teams which have a good standard of footy at these levels with different clubs being successful in different seasons.( no domination )

Myrtleford, is a major concern, being a town of only 4000 plus people, but more seriously, being located in an unfavourable position geographic wise, which makes it terribly difficult to recruit players from any other league,mainly because of the travel distances involved and they are not in a position to provide employment for potential recruits.
Yes they could amalgamate with Bright some 30 klms away, but Bright has been no star performer in the O&K comp for years and wouldnt have 2 players capable of being a good player at O&M level. Myrtlefords future in the O&M has been a concern for a number of years and there is no solution. If they went to the O&K, well that would create another problem , as they would then dominate this league, something the O&K wouldnt want.

 

[ringo1]

Grasskat,
all O&M teams field 2s and 3s teams which have a good standard of footy at these levels with different clubs being successful in different seasons.( no domination )

Myrtleford, is a major concern, being a town of only 4000 plus people, but more seriously, being located in an unfavourable position geographic wise, which makes it terribly difficult to recruit players from any other league,mainly because of the travel distances involved and they are not in a position to provide employment for potential recruits.
Yes they could amalgamate with Bright some 30 klms away, but Bright has been no star performer in the O&K comp for years and wouldnt have 2 players capable of being a good player at O&M level. Myrtlefords future in the O&M has been a concern for a number of years and there is no solution. If they went to the O&K, well that would create another problem , as they would then dominate this league, something the O&K wouldnt want.

They've got the right coach!

 

[smooth mover]

Smoothmover,
well done and appreciate your honesty here in relation to Kirbs answers.Overall, the O&M is a higher standard, in Kirbs judgement, and that is what I was saying... at no time was I saying the O&M was streets ahead.

Yeah all good stu, this is a good topic & 1 that pop's it's head up nearly every year & something to give us honest footy folk some good old fashioned "healthy" debates.... & to be quite honest it's 1 that I believe will never ever be truly answered & rightly so as both these dominant leagues have earned their reputation & right to be regarded "The Best".... Cheers

 

[stuyd1]

its fair to assume you play to your strengths and attacking footy with Fevola standing in a square would be all you need to do. Patrick Rose one of the better VFL players to play O&M would also deserve this service so to suggest its more attacking is not telling us much at all. You would not being doing the players justice to play a St Kilda/Ross Lyon game of you kick 6 and we will kick 7 goals to win. This year with Eagle and Weeks playing I think it will be fair to assume United and Rochy will play a faster more attacking game than last year with more quality forwards available. Some other teams will load their backlines in both O&M and GV to slow the game.

GC, agree ,
its more about attacking game plans based around numerous players kicking goals. Not just relying on a gun forward to kick the goals, especially if the club does not have a gun full forward and most clubs dont.... Yes, at country footy level in a good comp, a Fevola at Yarra would of kicked 150 some ten years ago, but thats not the case now... due to the evolution of the game. Ive seen and heard coaches on game day telling the runner to go out and deliver the message... stop trying to kick it to the gun full forward all the time.
In saying that, I envy your league in picking up Eagle and Weekes.... as I still love a great full forward,and these two guys are quality plus.

 

[Woody Woodman]

Have it on good authority that Echuca FC are sounding out a return to the Bendigo FL. Apparently sick of the Shepparton centric decisions made in favour and by collusion, that benfits only those in or close to Shepparton. Watch this space !!!!

Ah the Bendigo Football League, the league that ate their own (and a few others). Why would Echuca think that the decision making processes in the BFL would be any less "centric"?

 

[ROOTA#6]

Ah the Bendigo Football League, the league that ate their own (and a few others). Why would Echuca think that the decision making processes in the BFL would be any less "centric"?

Long trip from Echuca to Gisborne

 

[GG Rides Again]

Long trip from Echuca to Gisborne

its actually faster and better road than the trip to Mansfield. about 40klms shorter round trip.

Playing BFL would cost less than GV to compete I would expect and Echuca would dominate. Down side is the closeness of the other clubs they have rivalry with in Rochy and Ky which would be lost.
Would Echuca supporters long term pay up and follow them into another league? Not sure the club wouldnt lose a few players to Ky and Rochy as well if this were the case and they wanted to stay in a stronger league.

 

[GG Rides Again]

GC, agree ,
its more about attacking game plans based around numerous players kicking goals. Not just relying on a gun forward to kick the goals, especially if the club does not have a gun full forward and most clubs dont.... Yes, at country footy level in a good comp, a Fevola at Yarra would of kicked 150 some ten years ago, but thats not the case now... due to the evolution of the game. Ive seen and heard coaches on game day telling the runner to go out and deliver the message... stop trying to kick it to the gun full forward all the time.
In saying that, I envy your league in picking up Eagle and Weekes.... as I still love a great full forward,and these two guys are quality plus.

Completely disagree with these comments based on Fevola kick 110 and Patrick Rose 104 last year. Pretty sure there seems to be a reliance on these 2 to kick the goals in their teams and both teams finished in finals as the next best in either team is 29 goals for the year. Say what you like but the game hasnt evolved any quicker in the O&M than any other league as this shows as stated they play to their strengths as do most sides. Your kidding yourself if you think any coach apart from Malcolm Blight would play a 100 goal forward in country footy as a decoy and state " stop kicking it at Fevola".The comment on the end may be stop kicking it to him as he will break his foot with that many shots.
The percentages dont lie and he would win 8 out of 10 contests the same sort of percentages as Patrick Rose and Weeks( probably both better at ground level)

 

[swoopin pie]

Shepp swans have picked up a top player in Andrew Riordon [ex katandra and grovedale b+f ]
Has moved back home with work ,This guy can really play .Great stuff swans?

 

[overtheborder]

its actually faster and better road than the trip to Mansfield. about 40klms shorter round trip.

Playing BFL would cost less than GV to compete I would expect and Echuca would dominate. Down side is the closeness of the other clubs they have rivalry with in Rochy and Ky which would be lost.
Would Echuca supporters long term pay up and follow them into another league? Not sure the club wouldnt lose a few players to Ky and Rochy as well if this were the case and they wanted to stay in a stronger league.

They also wouldn't have to travel to Mansfield 1 and 3/4 hrs. Benalla 1.5hrs, Seymour 1.5hrs, Euroa 1.5hrs...Gisborne look like going to the Ballarat league and Kyneton look like folding or very close to it. Then Echuca's furtherest game would be Castlemaine 1.5hrs approx. All other teams in Bendigo 45 mins from Echuca and all finals in and around bendigo. Makes a bit of sense. Yes lesser standard but may be the catalyst for the BFL clubs to increase their output/raise the bar. Rivalry will develope over time. Lots of positives with not many negatives....Think supporters would travel to Bendigo eg shopping etc before a game then to the footy, before they would head to mansfield, seymour, benalla or Euroa...(nothing against these towns just geographically closer)

 

[ROOTA#6]

They also wouldn't have to travel to Mansfield 1 and 3/4 hrs. Benalla 1.5hrs, Seymour 1.5hrs, Euroa 1.5hrs...Gisborne look like going to the Ballarat league and Kyneton look like folding or very close to it. Then Echuca's furtherest game would be Castlemaine 1.5hrs approx. All other teams in Bendigo 45 mins from Echuca and all finals in and around bendigo. Makes a bit of sense. Yes lesser standard but may be the catalyst for the BFL clubs to increase their output/raise the bar. Rivalry will develope over time. Lots of positives with not many negatives....Think supporters would travel to Bendigo eg shopping etc before a game then to the footy, before they would head to mansfield, seymour, benalla or Euroa...(nothing against these towns just geographically closer)

Not meaning to nit pick as u make many good points but gisborne will be in the Bendigo league for many years to come. They have repeatedly knocked back offers to head over to the Ballarat league. However as a couple of you guys have said the trip to gisborne is shorter than their furtherest trip in the GV so it wouldn't be a major factor for them you would think

 

[overtheborder]

Not meaning to nit pick as u make many good points but gisborne will be in the Bendigo league for many years to come. They have repeatedly knocked back offers to head over to the Ballarat league. However as a couple of you guys have said the trip to gisborne is shorter than their furtherest trip in the GV so it wouldn't be a major factor for them you would think

Fair point re Gisborne.....what about Kyneton....leaves room for a new side...or.....intevention by Football Victoria (VCFL)....making this all happen....

 

[Tatsean]

Fair point re Gisborne.....what about Kyneton....leaves room for a new side...or.....intevention by Football Victoria (VCFL)....making this all happen....

At the rate at which western and northern outer Melbourne is growing, there maybe a new major league in that area in the next 20 years which could be between Sydenham, Gisborne and Melton. Another maybe in the area of Wallan - Kilmore - Seymour. So that would mean less travel for Echuca either way if Gisborne and Seymour moved to any future leagues.....unless any extra teams that pop up (like around Seymour etc if their population jumps to 40,000), want to join GVFL and BFL.... then it would be more travel for Echuca....and they would be still complaining....
so maybe they should join the Murray League for the less travel...Their new rivalries will then be closer in Echuca United and Moama and a renewed old one in Tongala.

 

[bradrowe#32]

Highly doubt Rochester would go back to the BFL. Rochester has a lot of history and nostalgia in the BFL, but after the club fought so hard to stay afloat in the GVFL, it wouldn't really make sense to go back. The BFL screwed Rochester before it left, mainly owing to the league administration promising the club (and Echuca and the southern country clubs) the opportunity to host finals, but they never followed through on it. There was also an issue of dividends - Rochester had strong gates back then and contributed significantly to the league's finances, but received poor dividends at the end of the year.

When Rochester left the BFL, it was forced to sit out the 1972 season and as a result, lost most of its players and it set the club back for a very long time. Ironically, Rochester leaving the BFL paved the way for Echuca to leave and they were granted easy entry into the GVFL. Rochester struggled throughout the 1970s and 1980s with a series of poor coaching choices, lack of local support and financial woes. The club was basically locals with very few imports because no one wanted to travel for hours to play for a club that wins two games a year. Throughout those dark times, Rochester's officials decided that the GVFL was a stronger league and they wanted to expose the town's locals to the best standard of football.

The club finally turned around in 1988 and the club has been very solid on and off the field so it would be a very slim chance of going back to the BFL.

 

[Baysixer]

Gee us Seymour boys have been hitting the deck running lately...expecting to see some great footy from Kings Park Seamus 'ze mits' Feery is in contention to make his long awaited senior debut, whilst Tom 'Goulburn Valley's version of Dyson Heppell' Freeman has been on a strict protein diet to ensure he runs through a few people this year Our coach expects us to rip Mansfield to pieces come round one

 

[bradrowe#32]

Awesome.

 

[ringo1]

Highly doubt Rochester would go back to the BFL. Rochester has a lot of history and nostalgia in the BFL, but after the club fought so hard to stay afloat in the GVFL, it wouldn't really make sense to go back. The BFL screwed Rochester before it left, mainly owing to the league administration promising the club (and Echuca and the southern country clubs) the opportunity to host finals, but they never followed through on it. There was also an issue of dividends - Rochester had strong gates back then and contributed significantly to the league's finances, but received poor dividends at the end of the year.

When Rochester left the BFL, it was forced to sit out the 1972 season and as a result, lost most of its players and it set the club back for a very long time. Ironically, Rochester leaving the BFL paved the way for Echuca to leave and they were granted easy entry into the GVFL. Rochester struggled throughout the 1970s and 1980s with a series of poor coaching choices, lack of local support and financial woes. The club was basically locals with very few imports because no one wanted to travel for hours to play for a club that wins two games a year. Throughout those dark times, Rochester's officials decided that the GVFL was a stronger league and they wanted to expose the town's locals to the best standard of football.

The club finally turned around in 1988 and the club has been very solid on and off the field so it would be a very slim chance of going back to the BFL.

Good reply mate. Hearing that Kyneton FC will not field any sides this year and that Bendigo League are in urgent talks with the club.

 

[Pitbull]

apparently Matt Farrelly has walked out on Bendigo Gold..can anyone from echuca confirm??

 

[ringo1]

apparently Matt Farrelly has walked out on Bendigo Gold..can anyone from echuca confirm??

Have'nt heard that mate but they are in struggletown big time!

 

[The Big Arab]

Have'nt heard that mate but they are in struggletown big time!

more info Ringo? Player signings seem to be country vic players with little or no VFL player experience excluding players from last year. Frankston V Bendigo match will have to be a must see based on who finishes bottom.....