No Oppo Supporters General AFL discussion and other club news

[brad sue well]

I feel sorry for Brocky - returning to WA was never going to go well

Not wanting to be provocative but without more information, I take it on face value. I would have thought going back home is the opposite of what is implied.

 

[brad sue well]

Like some CEOs, I can not work out how it is in any way okay for Jennifer Watt to share private information about Tarryn Thomas

26

Tarryn Thomas

Age

24

Ht

190cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

5.7

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

3.3

5star

CL

0.9

3star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

3.2

4star

CL

0.2

2star

D

12.8

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

0.4

3star

. I would have thought Tarryn could sue for this?

12ft

Roos unable to ‘meaningfully change’ Thomas’ behaviour

The midfielder completed four different behavioural programs before being sacked by North Melbourne, CEO says in email.

www.theage.com.au

 

[The Golden Glenferrie]

Like some CEOs, I can not work out how it is in any way okay for Jennifer Watt to share private information about Tarryn Thomas. I would have thought Tarryn could sue for this?

12ft

Roos unable to ‘meaningfully change’ Thomas’ behaviour

The midfielder completed four different behavioural programs before being sacked by North Melbourne, CEO says in email.

www.theage.com.au

Strong user name to post content ratio

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Like some CEOs, I can not work out how it is in any way okay for Jennifer Watt to share private information about Tarryn Thomas. I would have thought Tarryn could sue for this?

12ft

Roos unable to ‘meaningfully change’ Thomas’ behaviour

The midfielder completed four different behavioural programs before being sacked by North Melbourne, CEO says in email.

www.theage.com.au

It's not private information - it's employment based information. It is also information that has been heavily reported in the press, so it's not exactly a secret. I applaud Watt for doing what she did - Norf (finally) took a stand on a repeat offender and should not see him march to another club next year when they have repeatedly offered him means to better himself that he has not engaged with.

Really odd that you are playing devil's advocate for TT on this one.

 

[brad sue well]

It's not private information - it's employment based information. I applaud Watt for doing what she did - Norf (finally) took a stand on a repeat offender and should not see him march to another club next year when they have repeatedly offered him means to better himself that he has not engaged with.

Really odd that you are playing devil's advocate for TT on this one.

Certainly interested in what others have to say. Am speaking on this email alone and not what has happened to get delisted. Other CEOs seem to have thought what I had before reading that deep into the article...

We all know TT has needed to do some training and in the end North threw their hands up and said they can't do more. The specifics of what they did is private for mine and if clubs want to meet TT and work things out and hear from him (not his previous employer, who I would argue can be a character reference but to a point, that I think has been crossed). Am I right in thinking soccer players injury information is kept in house (overseas) especially as it is private information. Not that a player should hide this at trade time but it is health information. TT had a rehabilitation of sorts and it is for him to decide rather than a former employer who is going into detail with every other employer he may want to work for. I get TT and the AFL is likely to be finished and I would agree but this seems to go further than it should. I also have the AFLs narrative around this, is this something they want known given some clubs have defended TT and shown a degree of interest. I am sure the AFL, North, AFLPA did some serious stuff to turn TT around but not sure it is for others.

TT has been in serious trouble, still has rights and I see this as one that is breached.

I am happy to be swayed, just not there yet.

 

[The Golden Glenferrie]

It's not private information - it's employment based information. It is also information that has been heavily reported in the press, so it's not exactly a secret. I applaud Watt for doing what she did - Norf (finally) took a stand on a repeat offender and should not see him march to another club next year when they have repeatedly offered him means to better himself that he has not engaged with.

Really odd that you are playing devil's advocate for TT on this one.

Brad and Chris Scott though re. TT

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Certainly interested in what others have to say. Am speaking on this email alone and not what has happened to get delisted. Other CEOs seem to have thought what I had before reading that deep into the article...

We all know TT has needed to do some training and in the end North threw their hands up and said they can't do more. The specifics of what they did is private for mine and if clubs want to meet TT and work things out and hear from him (not his previous employer, who I would argue can be a character reference but to a point, that I think has been crossed). Am I right in thinking soccer players injury information is kept in house (overseas) especially as it is private information. Not that a player should hide this at trade time but it is health information. TT had a rehabilitation of sorts and it is for him to decide rather than a former employer who is going into detail with every other employer he may want to work for. I get TT and the AFL is likely to be finished and I would agree but this seems to go further than it should. I also have the AFLs narrative around this, is this something they want known given some clubs have defended TT and shown a degree of interest. I am sure the AFL, North, AFLPA did some serious stuff to turn TT around but not sure it is for others.

TT has been in serious trouble, still has rights and I see this as one that is breached.

I am happy to be swayed, just not there yet.

Boy oh boy, where to start.

It says that 3 CEOs quoted were surprised that she addressed it directly - you have no idea whether they were speculating the same things you were.

North thew their hands up and said they can't do more? Err, no. North tried multiple programs which TT did not engage with and then continued to display the same behaviour that landed him in trouble in the first place - that behaviour being threatening a woman via social media. Once sacked - North have continued to offer him medical and mental health support. They have gone above and beyond for him.

I don't particularly care about overseas soccer players because that has little to do with Australian privacy/defamation laws.

TT had a rehabilitation of sorts? Such as what? The period of time between his initial offences and later offences? Yeah, that doesn't really wash with me.

There is zero breach of anything here. Much like there is no breach with some of the boys club CEOs who have gone running off to their media friends because Jennifer Watt has done the right thing and implored other CEOs to show similar leadership that her club has as has Don Pyke.

As it stands - employment records such as what has been disclosed by Watt is not protected by the National Privacy Principals. It is not remotely defamatory either.

If you want to start mounting a high horse in a crusade for people's privacy and rights - how about campaigning for somebody's right to not be continually harassed on social media and be threatened with sharing naked photos of them?

 

[DogDaySonny]

I think it should be a club initiative. For instance, which players get invited back to the premiership reunion celebrations? Perhaps a club should invite every player who played in a final, or a game or maybe anyone on the list for that year? Be consistent and give due recognition where they deem it relevant.

Of course it should be a club initiative. And rather than a ring, a plaque for the pool room would be more suitable.

 

[brad sue well]

Boy oh boy, where to start.

It says that 3 CEOs quoted were surprised that she addressed it directly - you have no idea whether they were speculating the same things you were.

North thew their hands up and said they can't do more? Err, no. North tried multiple programs which TT did not engage with and then continued to display the same behaviour that landed him in trouble in the first place - that behaviour being threatening a woman via social media. Once sacked - North have continued to offer him medical and mental health support. They have gone above and beyond for him.

I don't particularly care about overseas soccer players because that has little to do with Australian privacy/defamation laws.

TT had a rehabilitation of sorts? Such as what? The period of time between his initial offences and later offences? Yeah, that doesn't really wash with me.

There is zero breach of anything here. Much like there is no breach with some of the boys club CEOs who have gone running off to their media friends because Jennifer Watt has done the right thing and implored other CEOs to show similar leadership that her club has as has Don Pyke.

As it stands - employment records such as what has been disclosed by Watt is not protected by the National Privacy Principals. It is not remotely defamatory either.

If you want to start mounting a high horse in a crusade for people's privacy and rights - how about campaigning for somebody's right to not be continually harassed on social media and be threatened with sharing naked photos of them?

My first post had a question mark as I don't know and thought others may... NPP, fine done.

North/AFL/AFLPA did go above and beyond, they did put him through the best they could do and then all they had left was despair. That was said that in the earlier part of that very sentence.

Rehabilitation... "four different programs which included an extensive combination of education, therapy and participation-style programs". Therapy = medical information to me. Of sorts... you can have many different approaches. Maybe it is the ninth type of approach that starts to make sense and as people who know him ie Scott, there is a lot of complexity with TT. I assume it involved catering to learning needs or he will never click with a program. He has to find number 5 training program... clubs are obliged to cater for players, industry does a lot, there is a long way to go in some instances hence calls for more help. Clayton Oliver, another example and as we know with Cousins, playing doesn't = problem solved.

Fair call re boys club, hadn't thought of that. I did not know what is in and out of the NPP, hence my initial question - thank you.

Please, how can it be concluded that what I wrote approves of criminality. I am not a coach who needs to be spoon fed a pre-press conference by the AFL about violence against women. Take TT out of this, is it not for the law/courts to open up of this information and until then, future employers may want to steer clear. An issue is a delay of time between identification and punishment in this case. In non-public cases, not sure what the answer is. If someone worked for an accountancy firm and then did all North did, do they email all other accountancy firms? What is the best way? Agree "Watt said there was a “need for broad reform” and North Melbourne would “support an industry initiative”.".

If you think I am defending TT's behaviour, please don't waste your time replying.

 

[KermitJagger]

My first post had a question mark as I don't know and thought others may... NPP, fine done.

North/AFL/AFLPA did go above and beyond, they did put him through the best they could do and then all they had left was despair. That was said that in the earlier part of that very sentence.

Rehabilitation... "four different programs which included an extensive combination of education, therapy and participation-style programs". Therapy = medical information to me. Of sorts... you can have many different approaches. Maybe it is the ninth type of approach that starts to make sense and as people who know him ie Scott, there is a lot of complexity with TT. I assume it involved catering to learning needs or he will never click with a program. He has to find number 5 training program... clubs are obliged to cater for players, industry does a lot, there is a long way to go in some instances hence calls for more help. Clayton Oliver, another example and as we know with Cousins, playing doesn't = problem solved.

Fair call re boys club, hadn't thought of that. I did not know what is in and out of the NPP, hence my initial question - thank you.

Please, how can it be concluded that what I wrote approves of criminality. I am not a coach who needs to be spoon fed a pre-press conference by the AFL about violence against women. Take TT out of this, is it not for the law/courts to open up of this information and until then, future employers may want to steer clear. An issue is a delay of time between identification and punishment in this case. In non-public cases, not sure what the answer is. If someone worked for an accountancy firm and then did all North did, do they email all other accountancy firms? What is the best way? Agree "Watt said there was a “need for broad reform” and North Melbourne would “support an industry initiative”.".

If you think I am defending TT's behaviour, please don't waste your time replying.

Clubs are not obliged to cater for players in perpetuity, if they prove unable to be rehabilitated there are other pathways to that outside of an AFL club. Being able to play football for a career is a very well paid, high profile privilege - North did as much as they could, in my view more than they ever should, to try to help Tarryn Thomas.

In terms of Tarryn's right to privacy, those details were already released as part of the AFL's sanction and North's club statement upon his release.

Per the AFL statement - "... the AFL took into account the evidence over a period of time which included Thomas engaging in misconduct while he was undertaking education in 2023 to deal with similar behaviours from earlier that year."

Per Watt's announcement upon Tarryn being released - "The club has provided Tarryn with significant time, resources and support but we've now arrived at a point where the individual's needs don't match those of the club."

Nothing stated in the memo to the other club CEOs expresses any information that wasn't released in both of those instances, outside some additional detail around the education and resources provided to him.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Rehabilitation... "four different programs which included an extensive combination of education, therapy and participation-style programs". Therapy = medical information to me. Of sorts... you can have many different approaches. Maybe it is the ninth type of approach that starts to make sense and as people who know him ie Scott, there is a lot of complexity with TT. I assume it involved catering to learning needs or he will never click with a program. He has to find number 5 training program... clubs are obliged to cater for players, industry does a lot, there is a long way to go in some instances hence calls for more help. Clayton Oliver, another example and as we know with Cousins, playing doesn't = problem solved.

I'm sorry - but exactly how many ways does someone need to be told it is not okay to threaten women and to distribute intimate images of them without their consent? I don't care how your background might differ from mine in terms of privilege (not your invoking of this but Brad Scott's) - but there are some concepts that if you are unwilling to grasp then you are unwarranted of playing for a football club at the highest level.

I am not asking for TT to become a intersectional feminist and complete a degree in women's studies. I am asking that he show some very basic levels of acting like a remotely civil human being. There are a vast number of people from similar backgrounds to Thomas who don't engage in similar, repeated, behaviour.

If someone worked for an accountancy firm and then did all North did, do they email all other accountancy firms? What is the best way?

If there were only 17 other accounting firms - then I would be more than okay with that approach. There aren't however, so what you are asking for there is a bit unfeasible. Being that there are only 17 other clubs in the AFL - then Watt, in my opinion, is acting more than professionally to highlight to other clubs about the extent to which Thomas willingly did not want to make personal change. While idiots like Chris and Brad Scott play footsies with the idea of recruiting him (in Brad Scott's case in the very same week that 4 of his players attended the funeral of a murdered woman no less) I think Watt should be applauded in giving the other clubs the heads up as to what they might be potentially recruiting. I am hoping the AFL takes that out of the hands of clubs however as clearly there are some clubs who seemingly have no qualms bringing in a repeat offender.

 

[brad sue well]

Clubs are not obliged to cater for players in perpetuity, if they prove unable to be rehabilitated there are other pathways to that outside of an AFL club. Being able to play football for a career is a very well paid, high profile privilege - North did as much as they could, in my view more than they ever should, to try to help Tarryn Thomas.

In terms of Tarryn Thomas' right to privacy, those details were already released as part of the AFL's sanction and North's club statement upon his release.

Per the AFL statement - "... the AFL took into account the evidence over a period of time which included Thomas engaging in misconduct while he was undertaking education in 2023 to deal with similar behaviours from earlier that year."

Per Watt's announcement upon Tarryn being released - "The club has provided Tarryn with significant time, resources and support but we've now arrived at a point where the individual's needs don't match those of the club."

Nothing stated in the memo to the other club CEOs expresses any information that wasn't released in both of those instances, outside some additional detail around the education and resources provided to him.

I agree, as someone who has got to know the AFLPA well, they do some great things and other areas don't get funding. Forever funding is unrealistic. I think above and beyond is a lot to do with brand management. I certainly come from an approach of hope for successful rehabilitation, an element of forever funding and the Scott comments. If anything, TT had 'issues' prior to his draft I remember being reported, unlikely these caregivers are still involved, especially interstate.

I didn't know about the detail of AFL's statement, haven't read everything on the topic. The quote doesn't mention therapy that I feel is private (even though it is an obvious approach and why it is not something readily divulged in our daily lives, amongst trained professionals with consent, yes) and I would guess behaviour change simply doesn't change immediately for some.

I appreciate the measured reply.

 

[KermitJagger]

I agree, as someone who has got to know the AFLPA well, they do some great things and other areas don't get funding. Forever funding is unrealistic. I think above and beyond is a lot to do with brand management. I certainly come from an approach of hope for successful rehabilitation, an element of forever funding and the Scott comments. If anything, TT had 'issues' prior to his draft I remember being reported, unlikely these caregivers are still involved, especially interstate.

I didn't know about the detail of AFL's statement, haven't read everything on the topic. The quote doesn't mention therapy that I feel is private (even though it is an obvious approach and why it is not something readily divulged in our daily lives, amongst trained professionals with consent, yes) and I would guess behaviour change simply doesn't change immediately for some.

I appreciate the measured reply.

Other announcements around Tarryn Thomas mentioned working with psychologists.

A letter from club president Dr Sonja Hood

President Dr Sonja Hood writes to North Melbourne Members and Supporters

www.nmfc.com.au

“The club has since built a significant and multi-layered program which includes respectful relationships education, working with psychologists, mentoring, peer support and community outreach for Tarryn to complete so he can meet North Melbourne’s values and community expectations.”

 

[Ned Ryerson]

It's weird that he has failed multiple programs/attempts at showing that he can just not be a dickhead towards women - Brad Scott assures us he's a good person .

 

[brad sue well]

I'm sorry - but exactly how many ways does someone need to be told it is not okay to threaten women and to distribute intimate images of them without their consent? I don't care how your background might differ from mine in terms of privilege (not your invoking of this but Brad Scott's) - but there are some concepts that if you are unwilling to grasp then you are unwarranted of playing for a football club at the highest level.

I am not asking for TT to become a intersectional feminist and complete a degree in women's studies. I am asking that he show some very basic levels of acting like a remotely civil human being. There are a vast number of people from similar backgrounds to Thomas who don't engage in similar, repeated, behaviour.



If there were only 17 other accounting firms - then I would be more than okay with that approach. There aren't however, so what you are asking for there is a bit unfeasible. Being that there are only 17 other clubs in the AFL - then Watt, in my opinion, is acting more than professionally to highlight to other clubs about the extent to which Thomas willingly did not want to make personal change. While idiots like Chris and Brad Scott play footsies with the idea of recruiting him (in Brad Scott's case in the very same week that 4 of his players attended the funeral of a murdered woman no less) I think Watt should be applauded in giving the other clubs the heads up as to what they might be potentially recruiting. I am hoping the AFL takes that out of the hands of clubs however as clearly there are some clubs who seemingly have no qualms bringing in a repeat offender.

How many times... each case will be different and complex. Background is relevant where society is unequal and right and wrong can be equally normalised. I don't see this being a playing football issue.

Scott's comments come from a deeper knowledge than most, it also comes from a former AFL employee who I thought was paving the way for a return and I see Watt's email as a reply - don't do it!

You asked me to be an advocate... I have sat in a state forum with an abused female client, action I initiated with consent. Commended by the female adjudicator as I identified the issue through trust and had to get time poor specialists to pay attention. Perpetrator had an ABI (extreme complexity and disinhibition... 'how many times' may be an impossibility). I can give other examples... I don't think you need this experience to see and act on issues, as you said civility is hopefully obvious. Credentials or experience isn't needed, Don Pyke... Maybe I did a bad job but was the only one in this persons life with the time/resources and the thank you was because things were steering where it was hoped but may not have been meant, deep down; I do think it was though. Good intentions with good personal, professional, workplace values doesn't equal happy client. You? No need to reply.

 

[brad sue well]

Other announcements around Tarryn Thomas mentioned working with psychologists.

A letter from club president Dr Sonja Hood

President Dr Sonja Hood writes to North Melbourne Members and Supporters

www.nmfc.com.au

“The club has since built a significant and multi-layered program which includes respectful relationships education, working with psychologists, mentoring, peer support and community outreach for Tarryn to complete so he can meet North Melbourne’s values and community expectations.”

In my work experience, this is not something I would divulge without consent, hence I feel it is a breach. Hence my initial suing question mark that really, TT shouldn't bother with but perhaps the law could allow it. AFL or North saying it first, doesn't matter.

Thank you though.

 

[brad sue well]

It's weird that he has failed multiple programs/attempts at showing that he can just not be a dickhead towards women - Brad Scott assures us he's a good person .

With respect, was it a manager/AFL trying to 'fix' quickly? Was TT ready? Seems not, even if he wanted to be finished with it. Did potential newcomers to the issue ie senior AFL mental health workers have appropriate time to get to know TT, not just read his history? How well suited were the learning programs to TT's receptibility? Does TT have the capability to engage? North should know his learning style, but do they? Maybe he will be ready in 18 months and a particular approach with a particular practitioner whose trust needs to build? I would ask the AFLPA, was TT supported with an Indigenous psychologist who he had hopefully known for some time? This person can be with him throughout, maybe he told them as an 18 year old to p-off as he was used to intervention that didn't work.

4 or 400, need the right conditions or failure repeats.

 

[KermitJagger]

In my work experience, this is not something I would divulge without consent, hence I feel it is a breach. Hence my initial suing question mark that really, TT shouldn't bother with but perhaps the law could allow it. AFL or North saying it first, doesn't matter.

Thank you though.

There are different standards as to what can be released for public figures as there are for you or I. Tarryn Thomas is a public figure, and the information was released publicly in response to his actions as a condition of remaining in the AFL. I don't think the law would take any legal action presented as a response to Watts' email seriously.

 

[kirbatron]

I find it perplexing that clubs were 'arm in arm' last week taking a stand against DV & promoting discussion all whilst in the background some of the very same clubs are talking to a multiple DV offender & letting him back in the game.

I shouldn't be surprised but I am a bit

 

[brad sue well]

There are different standards as to what can be released for public figures as there are for you or I. Tarryn Thomas is a public figure, and the information was released publicly in response to his actions as a condition of remaining in the AFL. I don't think the law would take any legal action presented as a response to Watts' email seriously.

Thank you for seeing my posts for what they are. There I have it, different predicament for public figures. The email was sent privately but made public but so was other club and AFL communication that was already on public record.

Additional public pressure for someone who will hopefully rehabilitate but also strong and necessary public messaging.

 

[HoldingThe Ball]

Going back to the Premiership rings / Medals discussion..

I wouldn't be against players who played say 80% of the total games in a season getting awarded a Premiership medal.

It still doesn't sit well that Derek Kickett lost out on one due to one mans spite.

Brendon Whitecross would be recognised as well.

It works well in other sports across the world - 80% of games played per year seems reasonable to me.

 

[brad sue well]

Last one and not after replies as it is also in another thread... Clarkson showed leadership after a GF spoke about Jill Meagher's murder at that time... same person whose been accused of serious stuff regarding women/families... and at North. Been told to pull his head in many times... how many times? Spent time away from the game doing what? None of my business...

As much as Jennifer Watt and Sonya Hood support Clarkson and say so, they don't have a choice.

 

[Flag08]

Going back to the Premiership rings / Medals discussion..

I wouldn't be against players who played say 80% of the total games in a season getting awarded a Premiership medal.

It still doesn't sit well that Derek Kickett lost out on one due to one mans spite.

Brendon Whitecross would be recognised as well.

It works well in other sports across the world - 80% of games played per year seems reasonable to me.

Why do we care about other sports around the world? You’re either a premiership player or you’re not a premiership player. Seems to be the easiest distinction to make.

 

[MasterSamurai]

İf there was ever a chance for rings for players that didn't participate in grand final wins, then the first one should be given to Brendan Whitecross

Brendan Whitecross

Age

34

Ht

183cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.0

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.3

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

19.0

5star

K

10.2

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

7.0

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.0

1star

- 2013.

 

[moginie]

İf there was ever a chance for rings for players that didn't participate in grand final wins, then the first one should be given to Brendan Whitecross - 2013.

Or Peter Knights 1971.