Roast Geelong can't develop young players

[The Old Dark Navy's]

There's nothing like drafting a heap of kids and spending 5 years developing them, losing games, and delisting 80% of them when your patience runs out. Way better than spotting a mature aged diamond that nobody else knows about, and them instantly making you better on the way to a flag and multiple AAs.

Suffer Cats.

 

[FootyLad0]

First 4-0 start in 7 years. Wells has done it again.

Remember when Big Footy had 99% of Ladder predictions that we'd be between 10th-16th?

I know it's still early but with an impending game against Norf at GMHBA, people are going back and editing as they look real stupid right about now.

 

[fpm84]

Based on the username I have a suspicion why.

Looks similar to this guy.

 

[My Tilly]

haha good call. Clark should be playing every game this year. It's not like there's any depth in their midfield. Same with Bruhn.

Miers, Bruhn, Holmes our best tonight

 

[STPer18]

 

[Art Vandelay_]

He fails in every finals series. Only Rohan is worse. Look up BOG in every final we lose and there's a good chance it's his direct opponent. Has failed as a winger, as a ruckman, and as a defender.

He's s**t.

 

[PhatBoy]

He fails in every finals series. Only Rohan is worse. Look up BOG in every final we lose and there's a good chance it's his direct opponent. Has failed as a winger, as a ruckman, and as a defender.

He's s**t.

Ah yes

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Merely just trying to help you gents come to terms with the brutal truth, that you're in for a world of pain

6-0 sure is painful. Not sure how we cope tbh.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

6-0 sure is painful. Not sure how we cope tbh.

I feel like he's trying to socialise a source of individual pain. The empathy can sometimes alleviate the trauma.

I'm not sure we're the ones to help though

 

[Kobe Gryant]

I feel like he's trying to socialise a source of individual pain. The empathy can sometimes alleviate the trauma.

I'm not sure we're the ones to help though

To think we had Hawks supporters coming onto our board at the end of last year telling us to trade guys like Cameron & Stewart because the era was clearly over.

They do it differently at Dingley, that's for sure.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

To think we had Hawks supporters coming onto our board at the end of last year telling us to trade guys like Cameron & Stewart because the era was clearly over.

They do it differently at Dingley, that's for sure.

Sometimes you just have to let them make their own way in life

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Sometimes you just have to let them make their own way in life

For sure.

Personally, just can't understand why so many fall into the same trap over and over, particularly on a public forum where your opinion is your currency.

It's even worse when it's guys like King, Lloyd & Buckley who are even more public, and are actually getting paid.

10 minutes of research would have explained Geelongs woes in 2023, and the promise of the young brigade...yet the same idiots just fall into this "HurR DUrr Too olD, TOo SLOw" belief.

 

[The Casey Cat]

For sure.

Personally, just can't understand why so many fall into the same trap over and over, particularly on a public forum where your opinion is your currency.

It's even worse when it's guys like King, Lloyd & Buckley who are even more public, and are actually getting paid.

10 minutes of research would have explained Geelongs woes in 2023, and the promise of the young brigade...yet the same idiots just fall into this "HurR DUrr Too olD, TOo SLOw" belief.

And they could have looked at very recent history. EVERY time Geelong has had a really poor/sub par year they have rebounded with top 4 finishes H&A finishes the next 2 seasons or more:

2012 - Sixth H&A, out first week finals. Years of pain ahead? Top 4 2013 and 2014 (admittedly an absolutely s**t top 4 H&A side).

2015 - Miss finals. Make prelims 2016 & 2017.

2018 - Finish 8th, eliminated first week finals. Top 4 2019-2022.

2023 - Miss finals. Surely that's it? Gotta 'take their medicine' down the bottom of the ladder now right? Six and 0 with 7 games in Geelong remaining. We know where this is going.

 

[Mr Meow]

And they could have looked at very recent history. EVERY time Geelong has had a really poor/sub par year they have rebounded with top 4 finishes H&A finishes the next 2 seasons or more:

2012 - Sixth H&A, out first week finals. Years of pain ahead? Top 4 2013 and 2014 (admittedly an absolutely s**t top 4 H&A side).

2015 - Miss finals. Make prelims 2016 & 2017.

2018 - Finish 8th, eliminated first week finals. Top 4 2019-2022.

2023 - Miss finals. Surely that's it? Gotta 'take their medicine' down the bottom of the ladder now right? Six and 0 with 7 games in Geelong remaining. We know where this is going.

Yeah I brought up the bounce back factor after missing finals and having a big pre-season (Scarlett made a similar prediction On The Couch prior to season 2013). And that it's rare to have two seasons in a row destroyed by injuries. Scott also tends to problem solve season to season.

As expected these ideas were mocked.

The lid is firmly on but the idea that Geelong was in free fall and destined for bottom 4 in 2024 seemed fanciful.

 

[STPer18]

Some topical related excerpts:

Patience and consistency: there's real 2022 vibes about Geelong this year

Few could find a spot for the Cats in their pre-season top eight, but once again this club is proving why it might be the most impressive organisation in the sport, writes Rohan Connolly.

www.espn.com.au

Even when the Cats finished 12th last season with only 10-and-a-half wins, they weren't too far off the pace. None of their 12 defeats were by any more than 38 points, and only two were by more than 29 points. Yet, like a lot of my peers, I couldn't find a spot for them in my predicted top eight, settling on ninth. That already looks like a significant underestimation.

There are so many impressive aspects to the operation that is the Geelong Football Club, but is there any more outstanding than its junior development? It's been the key to keeping the Cats both consistently competitive yet capable simultaneously of regeneration.

And we won't see many better examples of it at work than in Saturday night's win over Brisbane in the wet.

The keys to this Geelong performance were the likes of Max Holmes, Zach Guthrie

39

Zach Guthrie

Age

25

Ht

188cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

5.2

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

90.0

1star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.0

2star

MG

90.0

2star

D

10.4

3star

K

3.8

2star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.6

4star

, Tanner Bruhn, Tyson Stengle

18

Tyson Stengle

Age

25

Ht

175cm

Wt

71kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.3

2star

K

5.8

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

10.3

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.5

4star

D

8.8

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.6

5star

, Jack Bowes

12

Jack Bowes

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.3

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

18.0

4star

K

11.8

5star

HB

6.3

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.1

2star

MG

318.1

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.4

4star

, Gryan Miers

32

Gryan Miers

Age

25

Ht

179cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

15.3

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.6

3star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.2

4star

and Brandan Parfitt

3

Brandan Parfitt

Age

26

Ht

180cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

8.4

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

2.1

2star

T

4.8

5star

CL

1.9

4star

D

15.3

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

7.8

5star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

6.4

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.6

3star

. That collection of names have arrived at Kardinia Park via a variety of sources, some trade-ins, some early draft picks, some not so.

But the common denominator is all are now significantly better and more consistent players than when they arrived at the club.

Who realistically would have believed Stengle could ever deliver consistently the form of which he was capable after his experiences at Richmond and Adelaide, let alone earn All-Australian selection and be such an important part of a premiership?

How many clubs might have run out of patience with Cam Guthrie's less-heralded younger brother, now also a premiership player and a fourth-place getter in a best and fairest? Or Parfitt, who like Guthrie, is now in his eighth season of senior football?

Geelong shows more faith in its list than most, and why not? The consistency with which the Cats get it right not just picking the right talent, but getting it to eventually deliver the best it possibly can, means their system will prevail far more often than not.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Some topical related exerpts:

Patience and consistency: there's real 2022 vibes about Geelong this year

Few could find a spot for the Cats in their pre-season top eight, but once again this club is proving why it might be the most impressive organisation in the sport, writes Rohan Connolly.

www.espn.com.au

Even when the Cats finished 12th last season with only 10-and-a-half wins, they weren't too far off the pace. None of their 12 defeats were by any more than 38 points, and only two were by more than 29 points. Yet, like a lot of my peers, I couldn't find a spot for them in my predicted top eight, settling on ninth. That already looks like a significant underestimation.

There are so many impressive aspects to the operation that is the Geelong Football Club, but is there any more outstanding than its junior development? It's been the key to keeping the Cats both consistently competitive yet capable simultaneously of regeneration.

And we won't see many better examples of it at work than in Saturday night's win over Brisbane in the wet.

The keys to this Geelong performance were the likes of Max Holmes, Zach Guthrie, Tanner Bruhn, Tyson Stengle, Jack Bowes, Gryan Miers and Brandan Parfitt. That collection of names have arrived at Kardinia Park via a variety of sources, some trade-ins, some early draft picks, some not so.

But the common denominator is all are now significantly better and more consistent players than when they arrived at the club.

Who realistically would have believed Stengle could ever deliver consistently the form of which he was capable after his experiences at Richmond and Adelaide, let alone earn All-Australian selection and be such an important part of a premiership?

How many clubs might have run out of patience with Cam Guthrie's less-heralded younger brother, now also a premiership player and a fourth-place getter in a best and fairest? Or Parfitt, who like Guthrie, is now in his eighth season of senior football?

Geelong shows more faith in its list than most, and why not? The consistency with which the Cats get it right not just picking the right talent, but getting it to eventually deliver the best it possibly can, means their system will prevail far more often than not.

RoCo really is articulate when he's not abusing people on twitter.

 

[mcgarnacle]

Only early days, and let's be frank - apart from maybe Brisbane who look a shell of their early 20s form, they haven't played any big guns yet this season. Need to evaluate once they've met Greater Western Sydney, Sydney, Collingwood, Carlton, etc.

Still, shouldn't take anything away from the phenomenal competitiveness of Geelong since 2004. It's kind of Melbourne Storm-esque in how they've been able to continue to be a team thereabouts for so long, and win several premierships along the way. Storm had a couple crossed out though, and they have had 2 consistent figures at the club in Bellamy (Head Coach) since 2003 and Ponissi (GM Football) since 2007. The change from Bomber Thompson to Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

was seamless, at the right time, and the latter has been able to regenerate the club time and again.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Only early days, and let's be frank - apart from maybe Brisbane who look a shell of their early 20s form, they haven't played any big guns yet this season. Need to evaluate once they've met Greater Western Sydney, Sydney, Collingwood, Carlton, etc.

Still, shouldn't take anything away from the phenomenal competitiveness of Geelong since 2004. It's kind of Melbourne Storm-esque in how they've been able to continue to be a team thereabouts for so long, and win several premierships along the way. Storm had a couple crossed out though, and they have had 2 consistent figures at the club in Bellamy (Head Coach) since 2003 and Ponissi (GM Football) since 2007. The change from Bomber Thompson to Chris Scott was seamless, at the right time, and the latter has been able to regenerate the club time and again.

...Yeah, they've been a real measuring stick for us lately.

With all due respect, I could get your point if Geelong (ala '07) had just come out of nowhere and needed to prove they had what it takes.

This is a side that won 16 in a row on the way to a dominant premiership, had a dip due to being crucified with injury, and has since returned to that form.

Does that mean they'll win the thing? I don't know, they're bloody hard to win and it's an even comp.

But acting like Geelong needs to prove something when none of the sides you've listed outside of Collingwood have done anything that actually matters is a bit much.

 

[mcgrath_truther]

the irony of this thread is that geelong have and will continue to develop young players, but what works best for them is that the youth get to play, train and work alongside genuine stars of the game (in the past and now) which will give them a proper and good mindspace to grow and improve their football skills.

 

[mcgarnacle]

...Yeah, they've been a real measuring stick for us lately.

With all due respect, I could get your point if Geelong (ala '07) had just come out of nowhere and needed to prove they had what it takes.

This is a side that won 16 in a row on the way to a dominant premiership, had a dip due to being crucified with injury, and has since returned to that form.

Does that mean they'll win the thing? I don't know, they're bloody hard to win and it's an even comp.

But acting like Geelong needs to prove something when none of the sides you've listed outside of Collingwood have done anything that actually matters is a bit much.

Relax mate. It's not a slight on Geelong at all. All I've written is that its early in the season, and Geelong have played teams currently 18th, 17th, 15th, 13th, 12th, 8th, after 6 rounds. You can only defeat who you play, and Geelong have shown that they're better than all those teams. But if you want to begin a circle jerk after the fixture so far, then go ahead.

I piss off from these forums, come back after a while, and realise why I've pissed off in the first place. A lack of objectivity from many supporters, and they get sooky at the hint of critique of their club. I even praised the club for hecks sake.

 

[mcgarnacle]

the irony of this thread is that geelong have and will continue to develop young players, but what works best for them is that the youth get to play, train and work alongside genuine stars of the game (in the past and now) which will give them a proper and good mindspace to grow and improve their football skills.

Youth among leaders is the big variable. Hawthorn had crawford, et al when their young 'uns were coming through. It aids their development of the kids, both from a football and leadership sense, and then those kids become leaders to mentor the next crop of kids. Obviously, you have to recruit the right kids from an ability and character point of view, and Geelong appear to have nailed the formula a lot of the time.

Go full kid, and you have no direction.

 

[mcgrath_truther]

Youth among leaders is the big variable. Hawthorn had crawford, et al when their young 'uns were coming through. It aids their development of the kids, both from a football and leadership sense, and then those kids become leaders to mentor the next crop of kids. Obviously, you have to recruit the right kids from an ability and character point of view, and Geelong appear to have nailed the formula a lot of the time.

Go full kid, and you have no direction.

recruiting locally helps a lot i reckon

 

[PhatBoy]

Relax mate. It's not a slight on Geelong at all. All I've written is that its early in the season, and Geelong have played teams currently 18th, 17th, 15th, 13th, 12th, 8th, after 6 rounds. You can only defeat who you play, and Geelong have shown that they're better than all those teams. But if you want to begin a circle jerk after the fixture so far, then go ahead.

I piss off from these forums, come back after a while, and realise why I've pissed off in the first place. A lack of objectivity from many supporters, and they get sooky at the hint of critique of their club. I even praised the club for *s sake.

Not unreasonable…..

But we’ve played the same amount of top 8 sides as Carlton and the general consensus is that they’re at the top of the tree swatting off potential contenders for a throne they haven’t occupied for a third of a century.

 

[PhilX]

Relax mate. It's not a slight on Geelong at all. All I've written is that its early in the season, and Geelong have played teams currently 18th, 17th, 15th, 13th, 12th, 8th, after 6 rounds. You can only defeat who you play, and Geelong have shown that they're better than all those teams. But if you want to begin a circle jerk after the fixture so far, then go ahead.

I piss off from these forums, come back after a while, and realise why I've pissed off in the first place. A lack of objectivity from many supporters, and they get sooky at the hint of critique of their club. I even praised the club for *s sake.

Your points are valid.

On the other hand, I'm confident that no matter how many games Geelong win or who who we beat or where we win them, a significant number of people will claim it's only because of a soft draw and an unfair home ground advantage, and that we're about to fall off a cliff anyway. To be clear, I don't think you're saying those things, it's just Geelong fans get a bit over this constant narrative. Although I don't mind so much, as always being in the running does a lot to help you brush off such minor annoyances.

 

[My Tilly]

Lose Kelly, Menegola, Selwood from the midfield . . . add in Holmes, Bruhn & Bowes and away we go again