Rumour End Of Season Gossip

[theflea]

while i think cloke is probably too dear at MORE than 800k our list profile can accomodate it considering both gus and mcguane are on plenty (about 600-700k for both)who will be scrapped soon.

 

[TheTigerArmy]

Well a 25/26yo monster 196cm, 108kg CHF, AA last year, B&F winner, Premiership player, who is having a (mentally) crap year with 45 goals and 121 marks, running around in 2013 with Riewoldt and Vickery as third tall/rotating ruckman, and the likes of Cotchin, Deledio, Foley and Martin pumping it in to them would be a terrible idea for Richmond. What was i thinking.

Yep spot on...

 

[David3030]

Speaking to my brother today who has connections to Post's family .... hint was dropped Post has signed a new contract .... but will try to confirm this over the weekend as its the same source hinting at interest from Adelaide

 

[tigerdan]

Speaking to my brother today who has connections to Post's family .... hint was dropped Post has signed a new contract .... but will try to confirm this over the weekend as its the same source hinting at interest from Adelaide

That's interesting. Given that there would be no need for the club to keep it secret, we should expect a press release about it soon.

 

[tigerdan]

This will probably end up as it's own thread but The Age is reporting that we are going to get Williams from GWS as a mentor of young players at RFC:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-in-giant-hunt-for-williams-20120831-256fz.html

 

[Old M8]

This will probably end up as it's own thread but The Age is reporting that we are going to get Williams from GWS as a mentor of young players at RFC:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-in-giant-hunt-for-williams-20120831-256fz.html

I'd be okay with that.

 

[Bazzar]

This will probably end up as it's own thread but The Age is reporting that we are going to get Williams from GWS as a mentor of young players at RFC:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-in-giant-hunt-for-williams-20120831-256fz.html

That would be a fantastic coup if it came off.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Everyone take a deep breath and relax. We are all tigers. Should be at the pub getting pissed instead of bickering.

Personally I think it is obvious that Carlton want Malthouse. Did you see when they asked Sticks if he would have sacked Ratten had Malthouse not been available? Took him about 15 seconds to answer because he knew if he answered no he'd look like a bastard and if he answered yes he'd look like a fool. In the end he had to give some lame excuse about it being 'line ball'. Carlton want Malthouse. It's written all over their faces.

As to Cloke, I think there's a huge chance Collingwood wont be able to match Carlton's offer. I don't think David's angst about his other sons would come into it if, as suggested, they get jobs with Visy.

I took your advice .

 

[UpTheGuts]

Speaking to my brother today who has connections to Post's family .... hint was dropped Post has signed a new contract .... but will try to confirm this over the weekend as its the same source hinting at interest from Adelaide

That would be a big turnaround from a week ago. We shall see

 

[_RT_]

it means the blues can either trade him or keep him. if he was out of contract he could just leave if he wanted too. in other words the club can determine his destiny. maybe thats just your view of warnock but im talking generalities, not specifically about warnock.

Nothing to do with Warnock, more the 3 year deal that they signed him to just to trade him out. IMO if you're planning on trading out a player then you either sign them to a 1-2 year deal so it doesn't force other clubs to take on a long term deal or you let them run to the end of their contract and trade them out. You don't sign people up to 3 year deals and just trade them out a season later.

while i think cloke is probably too dear at MORE than 800k our list profile can accomodate it considering both gus and mcguane are on plenty (about 600-700k for both)who will be scrapped soon.

Graham is here for another year so we're not freeing up that much from the cap.

Bit unfair RT, why would we necessarily lose one of them? You can't just assume that, and then expect Bazz to answer. Huge hypothetical. Kinda like Bazz asking you how many flags you're prepared to forego if we don't get him - 1 or 2?

And I'm not in the 'get Cloke' camp!

If he was simply wanting to change clubs due to something like home factor, or instability at his club, then I'd be happy to look at it. But holding his club to ransom for money, and with the family's reputation, it has a bad smell about it all for mine.

Its an example of what could happen. Those 4 are the high profile players that are coming out of contract next year, and all 4 would have reasonable claims to have much better deals than what they are currently on. Now if we're already committed to paying Cloke $800k-1mil we can't really be going to these 4 and say you know what we don't have the money to give you what you want.

Call me stupid but I would rather reward those that have done the hard yards with us and hauled us back up the ladder than pay big bucks for a mercenary. Think about it for a minute, for the money we'd pay Cloke, we could spread that around our current list and spend some recruiting a couple of lesser known free agents like Chaplin and Knights who fill more important needs for us than Cloke does.

 

[Calcium Man]

Just out of curiosity how many players have actually been squeezed out by the salary cap. I know free agency will probably change a lot but I cannot geniuenly think of many beyond Blumfield, Caracella and Mumford.

 

[corporal]

Nothing to do with Warnock, more the 3 year deal that they signed him to just to trade him out. IMO if you're planning on trading out a player then you either sign them to a 1-2 year deal so it doesn't force other clubs to take on a long term deal or you let them run to the end of their contract and trade them out. You don't sign people up to 3 year deals and just trade them out a season later.


Graham is here for another year so we're not freeing up that much from the cap.

Its an example of what could happen. Those 4 are the high profile players that are coming out of contract next year, and all 4 would have reasonable claims to have much better deals than what they are currently on. Now if we're already committed to paying Cloke $800k-1mil we can't really be going to these 4 and say you know what we don't have the money to give you what you want.

Call me stupid but I would rather reward those that have done the hard yards with us and hauled us back up the ladder than pay big bucks for a mercenary. Think about it for a minute, for the money we'd pay Cloke, we could spread that around our current list and spend some recruiting a couple of lesser known free agents like Chaplin and Knights who fill more important needs for us than Cloke does.

If we aren't paying 100% of our salary cap next year (which I assume we are not) wouldn't we just front load Clokes contract and use cap space that was free anyway?

If it's a use it or lose situation with the salary cap then it a complete no brainier to make a serious play.

We bring Cloke, Chaplin & Knights, we pick up some good midfielders in the draft and have a good run with injuries then based on our ability to match it with all of the top 8 sides this year then I believe we would be a chance to snag a premiership within 2 years.

 

[Damo80]

I agree with RT on this one... what he's essentially saying (I think) is do we want to pay a mercenary top $ to come play for us, then in 12 months time ask loyal Richmond guys like Cotchin, Martin, JR, Lids, to continue taking less than they could command on the open market? They might do it, but they might also come to begrudge it.

Personally, I reckon Cloke wants to stay at the Pies, he's just trying to bump up his contract price by playing the same sort of games player managers often play (spreading the word that he's received interest from other clubs etc). Problem is, the Cloke's are too dumb to do it properly, and it could backfire.

 

[THE_GUN]

Hate it if we were spending that much $$$ on the F***wit, Rather get Goddard which would suit our team a hell of alot more than cloke.

I Guarantee you that if Goddard played FF he would kick 50-60 goals and would be magnificant in our midfield

 

[tigerdan]

That would be a fantastic coup if it came off.

I'd be okay with that.

I think it's worth also bearing in mind that Choco will be close to a lot of the young guys there. Might give us an 'in' to lure them to punt road once contracts expire. There's some damn good kids at GWS.

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

I think a few here are getting a little carried away with cap pressure... Which clubs have a tight cap? Geelong, acouple of years back when they had 8 All Australians? The Pies now with their 6-7 AA's and their young brigade coming through? The Saints with their top end players they secured to go for their GF tilt?
Yes, all 4 players out of contract next year rightfully deserve a payrise and all must be secured before end of next year. But come on, isn't this why most of us donated to the FTF? So we have the opportunity to pay closer to 100% of the cap?
March, Gale & admin have done EVERYTHING with due diligence since they developed the plan to turn this club around, do you seriously think they'd be approaching free agents, whoever they are, and then say "Sh!t, how are we going to pay our established guns"?!?! They know how much they have to spend, but I seriously doubt RFC cap pressure will be as tight as discussed in here.

Does anyone know how much of the cap we spent this year? Was it close to the min?

 

[The full package]

If we aren't paying 100% of our salary cap next year (which I assume we are not) wouldn't we just front load Clokes contract and use cap space that was free anyway?

If it's a use it or lose situation with the salary cap then it a complete no brainier to make a serious play.

We bring Cloke, Chaplin & Knights, we pick up some good midfielders in the draft and have a good run with injuries then based on our ability to match it with all of the top 8 sides this year then I believe we would be a chance to snag a premiership within 2 years.

Thats great to win a flag, but what about the aftermath, I prefer Hawthorns model of sustained success. They seem to be doing it very well without upsetting any players.

 

[Bazzar]

But come on, isn't this why most of us donated to the FTF? So we have the opportunity to pay closer to 100% of the cap?

Definitely one of the reasons, and when we were being asked to donate the term "was chest" was constantly used so we have money to pay if a big name comes available.

 

[theflea]

Nothing to do with Warnock, more the 3 year deal that they signed him to just to trade him out. IMO if you're planning on trading out a player then you either sign them to a 1-2 year deal so it doesn't force other clubs to take on a long term deal or you let them run to the end of their contract and trade them out. You don't sign people up to 3 year deals and just trade them out a season later.

-when a player agrees to a trade he will be offered a new contract from that team, so effectively the existing contract is null and void. eg if he was on 3 years for 300k per he could sign a contract for 500k for 2 years per. so signing for 1 or 2 or 3 is irrelevant. i dont think they exclusively signed him up for trade only. i think they signed him up to play for the blues but would be open to the prospect of a trade and being in contract do have the upper hand in trade negotiations. and remember it may not be this year that you can have this scenario either as he is still contracted.

Graham is here for another year so we're not freeing up that much from the cap.

-i meant after next year.

Its an example of what could happen. Those 4 are the high profile players that are coming out of contract next year, and all 4 would have reasonable claims to have much better deals than what they are currently on. Now if we're already committed to paying Cloke $800k-1mil we can't really be going to these 4 and say you know what we don't have the money to give you what you want.

Call me stupid but I would rather reward those that have done the hard yards with us and hauled us back up the ladder than pay big bucks for a mercenary. Think about it for a minute, for the money we'd pay Cloke, we could spread that around our current list and spend some recruiting a couple of lesser known free agents like Chaplin and Knights who fill more important needs for us than Cloke does.

 

[theflea]

Definitely one of the reasons, and when we were being asked to donate the term "was chest" was constantly used so we have money to pay if a big name comes available.

we still have to fit players inside our pay structure model, ie top middle low. i think the top is around the 600/700k mark. also next year we will go from 92.5% to 95% minimum.

 

[_RT_]

I agree with RT on this one... what he's essentially saying (I think) is do we want to pay a mercenary top $ to come play for us, then in 12 months time ask loyal Richmond guys like Cotchin, Martin, JR, Lids, to continue taking less than they could command on the open market? They might do it, but they might also come to begrudge it.

Personally, I reckon Cloke wants to stay at the Pies, he's just trying to bump up his contract price by playing the same sort of games player managers often play (spreading the word that he's received interest from other clubs etc). Problem is, the Cloke's are too dumb to do it properly, and it could backfire.

Thats one reason why I don't want to commit to Cloke, the other reason is that this year is the first year of free agency and signing Cloke to 5 years as well as having to pay our own stars coming out of contract as well will effectively rule us out of free agency for those 5 years.

My preference for free agency is to go out and recruit free agents who aren't just looking for a big payday but want to come and play for us, like Chaplin and Knights apparently do. Signing up free agents like that, will leave us more money to pay our guys and will still leave us with the opportunity in the future to go out and recruit other free agents as well if the need arises.

IMO doing things like that will give us the best opportunity to achieve sustained success, rather than a fleeting short term glory that getting Cloke may bring.

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

I agree with RT on this one... what he's essentially saying (I think) is do we want to pay a mercenary top $ to come play for us, then in 12 months time ask loyal Richmond guys like Cotchin, Martin, JR, Lids, to continue taking less than they could command on the open market? They might do it, but they might also come to begrudge it.

A few weeks ago on the Sunday Footy Show both Cotchin and Rance said they would want Cloke at the Tigers, Jack also mentioned how good it would be to have Cloke up forward with him in his press conference last week. Surely the players would have discussed it/spoken to leadership group/discussed with coaches at stages during this saga.
Dusty is my only worry, he's openly pledged his loyalty to the Tigers but I have a sneaking suspicion that the mega $ might tempt him next negotiations. Time will tell..

But back to my point, these top end guys at tiges know what they NEED to be a finals/premiership team. They would see it everyday at training. We see it every weekend. The team first guys know the sacrifices required to win flags (ie Geelong). I'm not saying Cotch will take a paycut, he will get his $ and plenty more through endorsements etc. The guys with ambition and desire play for one thing only: Premierships.[/quote]

 

[Ned_Flanders]

A few weeks ago on the Sunday Footy Show both Cotchin and Rance said they would want Cloke at the Tigers, Jack also mentioned how good it would be to have Cloke up forward with him in his press conference last week. Surely the players would have discussed it/spoken to leadership group/discussed with coaches at stages during this saga.
Dusty is my only worry, he's openly pledged his loyalty to the Tigers but I have a sneaking suspicion that the mega $ might tempt him next negotiations. Time will tell..

But back to my point, these top end guys at tiges know what they NEED to be a finals/premiership team. They would see it everyday at training. We see it every weekend. The team first guys know the sacrifices required to win flags (ie Geelong). I'm not saying Cotch will take a paycut, he will get his $ and plenty more through endorsements etc. The guys with ambition and desire play for one thing only: Premierships.

Dusty, Cotch, and Jack are all looking at going from getting $200-300k to $400-500k+. This will still be below what other clubs will offer, and is great value for us.

Add Rance, Edwards, Grimes, and Nahas, all whom quite reasonably will need a decent pay rise given their improved importance to our team.

Even if we are on the lowest tier of the cap, that only overs $660k of the $800k salary Cloke wants. Even with a few delistings, they will not make up the extra $140k needed plus the extra player pay rises.

Getting Cloke would cost us 1-2 players, so I'm happy we are not in this now.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Dusty will be a Tiger for life. Take it to the bank.

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

Dusty, Cotch, and Jack are all looking at going from getting $200-300k to $400-500k+. This will still be below what other clubs will offer, and is great value for us.

Add Rance, Edwards, Grimes, and Nahas, all whom quite reasonably will need a decent pay rise given their improved importance to our team.

Even if we are on the lowest tier of the cap, that only overs $660k of the $800k salary Cloke wants. Even with a few delistings, they will not make up the extra $140k needed plus the extra player pay rises.

Getting Cloke would cost us 1-2 players, so I'm happy we are not in this now.

Well put. Like all of us, I am not privy to what players are on but I agree with what you expect these guys will receive next contract and I totally agree these guys could get much bigger deals elsewhere. There will always be players chasing the $ (Ablett, Ward, Scully, Mitch Clark...) some deserve it, some don't. It appears our guys are loyal to the cause.
My honest opinion is that Cloke has EARNED the right to command a big contract. B&F, All Australian in a GF year, premiership player and been developed in a successful environment. I recall a comment earlier in this thread that big power CHF do not grow on trees..
I too am happy we are not going at Cloke with the "at all costs" mentality. Apparently we have put in our offer at what we suggest is reasonable and left it with them.
IF the $ IS there, the RFC should be trying to explore opportunities to get a key position player. If not, I really think we try to poach a GC or GWS younster in a year or two if none develop into this role internally.